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The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread

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To everyone that made a comment on Jean Brodie; I found them very interesting. Watched the movie for the first time when it was on TCM last week. I had the same feelings as many here as being between a rock and a hard place for how I show felt about the character.

 

Based on the title and the little I knew about the movie (Smith's great performance was something I was aware of), I watched the movie assuming Brodie was a heroine. So as the plot moved along at first I dug myself deeper into a 'she must be a heroine' type of hole and felt some of those young girls were just punks. But as things continue to move along I could see that Brodie was flawed, if not deeply so. After the final scene I was left with my mouth open, not really knowing where I stood!

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Hi James..

 

This must be one of those rare movies where the really isn't a clear line drawn for who to root for. You are right.. you would THINK it should be Miss Brodie.. because she is the title character and she is the one you really get to see in all her "glory" (flaws and all)

 

Still having said that.. I am so with the Grey Dude.. the end was spot on perfect. I loved the resolution between Jean and Sandy.. very well carried out. Because at THAT point, you really do SEE who's story it was in the end, (even if only for that portion of the tale).

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I never got around to watching this movie, TPOJB, because I thought that it was some sort of sentimental story of a school teacher who no doubt was perfect and boring. Boy, was I wrong. I guess I'll add this to my embarrassing-list-of-good-movies-never-seen :(

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Laffite.. for you:

 

 

 

(the quality is NOT the best.. but not so bad it is unwatchable)

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Ro, thank you. I watched the first few minutes and only a short sample but I like the feel of it already, that busy street scene, etc., a sense of quality, had I a given this a try on my own, that false notion that I had would have been dispelled and I would have continued on. I'll see this in time though not on my short list, it has already been extensively analyzed here and it has that been-there done-that feel (why am I using that expression, I hate it) but I'll see it later and then maybe comment at that time. Funny how we can have an idea about a film not seen and be totally wrong about it.

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Jackie: I'd love to know what MissG thinks of this movie, whether she

likes it or not. I don't think she likes Celeste Holm, so I wonder about how she feels about this movie....

 

Re: *The Tender Trap*

It's not a favorite, because Frank and Debbie's story doesn't really interest me. Frank is, oddly enough, too passive in this movie, he barely registers. And I guess I'm not much into his "swinger" characters.

 

David Wayne is fantastic, he has the best role and actually brings a note of seriousness in the midst of all the fooling around. So does Celeste and I actually don't mind her here. She's good and has one of the best speeches when she details the reasons and hopes behind why women come to New York---baby, don't let the feminists tell you it's changed because nothing's changed. They still come for the same reason.

 

I can never ever imagine Frank's character going for a girl like Celeste, though, unless she was built like Kim Novak.

 

I like the way Madeleine Elster's husband keeps running into Celeste in the corridor...someone should tell her not to go on any dates with him at bell towers.

 

Very interesting stuff about *Miss Brodie*. It's a challenging, ascerbic movie. I'm not a big Maggie Smith fan so perhaps that is why I never liked her character from the start. I don't like phonies, and she's 100% phony. She makes the art teacher seem honest, he at least doesn't pretend to be anything but a wastrel. Why the men are crazy for her I don't know. I can see how young girls would be crazy for her, though. She massages their dreams while in reality she's only massaging her ego and protecting herself from the truth about her life. She can get away with fooling herself because she's in a small pond and dealing with impressionable young people...but put her in the big city shark tank and she'd lose a lot of that ego....and her illusions.

 

Is Jean like Blanche? Yes, in the self-delusional game they play, but Blanche has been hurt and is like a lost child, she would probably change a great deal if she found someone who really not only LOVED her but actually SHOWED it by protecting and trying to understand her. Compassion is what she craved, and protection.

 

But Jean? Who ever hurt Brodie? I don't remember any backstory. She seems too iron willed to pity. Blanche had virtually no will at all and was a study in dissolution, decay from neglect and lack of understanding. Both she and Jean buried themselves in the ideal, but Blanche's ideal was gentle and soft, Brodie's was arrogant, harsh and political (gag) and she wanted to believe she never needed anyone. I despise such attitudes but I pity the dreamer like Blanche who knew she needed...needed...needed when she was forced to the prop after her sister ran off and left her with the shambles of their life. Has Brodie ever had a real responsibility in her life of her own? Because the students are ultimately not her own children, they don't belong to her no matter what she or anyone thinks. I can't imagine Jean lifting a finger to take care of anyone or anything. Blanche cared for her family members and the house until it came undone and they all died on her.

 

*Ro*, I know Tennessee does use a lot of sarcastic dialogue, but in the midst of that he actually is one of the most compassionate writers, especially toward the weak and those who feel "different" (that would be me, so I love his plays for that reason). He isn't all about "cat fights", like his pallid imitators.

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Jackie: I'd love to know what MissG thinks of this movie, whether she

likes it or not. I don't think she likes Celeste Holm, so I wonder about how she feels about this movie....

 

Re: *The Tender Trap*

It's not a favorite, because Frank and Debbie's story doesn't really interest me. Frank is, oddly enough, too passive in this movie, he barely registers. And I guess I'm not much into his "swinger" characters.

 

David Wayne is fantastic, he has the best role and actually brings a note of seriousness in the midst of all the fooling around. So does Celeste and I actually don't mind her here. She's good and has one of the best speeches when she details the reasons and hopes behind why women come to New York---baby, don't let the feminists tell you it's changed because nothing's changed. They still come for the same reason.

 

I can never ever imagine Frank's character going for a girl like Celeste, though, unless she was built like Kim Novak.

 

I like the way Madeleine Elster's husband keeps running into Celeste in the corridor...someone should tell her not to go on any dates with him at bell towers.

***************************

Very interesting stuff about *Miss Brodie*. It's a challenging, ascerbic movie. I'm not a big Maggie Smith fan so perhaps that is why I never liked her character from the start. I don't like phonies, and she's 100% phony. She makes the art teacher seem honest, he at least doesn't pretend to be anything but a wastrel. Why the men are crazy for her I don't know. I can see how young girls would be crazy for her, though. She massages their dreams while in reality she's only massaging her ego and protecting herself from the truth about her life. She can get away with fooling herself because she's in a small pond and dealing with impressionable young people...but put her in the big city shark tank and she'd lose a lot of that ego....and her illusions.

 

Is Jean like Blanche? Yes, in the self-delusional game they play, but Blanche has been hurt and is like a lost child, she would probably change a great deal if she found someone who really not only LOVED her but actually SHOWED it by protecting and trying to understand her. Compassion is what she craved, and protection.

 

But Jean? Who ever hurt Brodie? I don't remember any backstory. She seems too iron willed to pity. Blanche had virtually no will at all and was a study in dissolution, decay from neglect and lack of understanding. Both she and Jean buried themselves in the ideal, but Blanche's ideal was gentle and soft, Brodie's was arrogant, harsh and political (gag) and she wanted to believe she never needed anyone. I despise such attitudes but I pity the dreamer like Blanche who knew she needed...needed...needed when she was forced to be the one propping up the family after her sister ran off and left her with the shambles of their life. Has Brodie ever had a real responsibility in her life of her own? Because the students are ultimately not her own children, they don't belong to her no matter what she or anyone thinks. I can't imagine Jean lifting a finger to take care of anyone or anything. Blanche cared for her family members and the house until it came undone and they all died on her.

 

*Ro*, I know Tennessee does use a lot of sarcastic dialogue, but in the midst of that he actually is one of the most compassionate writers, especially toward the weak and those who feel "different" (that would be me, so I love his plays for that reason). He isn't all about "cat fights", like his pallid imitators.

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_A fine day to you, Blanche_ -- You have done well in pointing out the biggest differences between Miss Brodie and Blanche. Nicely done!

 

*Very interesting stuff about Miss Brodie. It's a challenging, ascerbic movie. I'm not a big Maggie Smith fan so perhaps that is why I never liked her character from the start.*

 

If you don't like the performer, that will certainly hold you back some.

 

*I don't like phonies, and she's 100% phony. She makes the art teacher seem honest, he at least doesn't pretend to be anything but a wastrel.*

 

:D She's a romantic dreamer. There's automatically an air of phoniness with such people. I should know! But the romance and dreams are honest feelings, actually. Their view of life and place in reality can be phony.

 

*Why the men are crazy for her I don't know.*

 

Her beauty! And I don't just speak of her physical beauty. She dresses differently than most. She has different opinions to most. She has a romantic aura to her. This can be very threatening to some and enchanting to others.

 

*I can see how young girls would be crazy for her, though. She massages their dreams while in reality she's only massaging her ego and protecting herself from the truth about her life. She can get away with fooling herself because she's in a small pond and dealing with impressionable young people...but put her in the big city shark tank and she'd lose a lot of that ego....and her illusions.*

 

Since Jean is delusional, she truly does believe in who she is and what she's doing. It's not just about ego with her. The longer one lives in their dreams the more they become a part of them. Jean has been in her dreams for a while, now.

 

*Is Jean like Blanche? Yes, in the self-delusional game they play, but Blanche has been hurt and is like a lost child, she would probably change a great deal if she found someone who really not only LOVED her but actually SHOWED it by protecting and trying to understand her. Compassion is what she craved, and protection.*

 

Quite possibly. But Blanche did have someone willing to do this for her. Blanche has to get past her delusions of who she is and where she is in life and I'm not sure she can do that. There's an ugliness to her current state and she longs for her beautiful past, as so many women do.

 

*But Jean? Who ever hurt Brodie? I don't remember any backstory.*

 

It depends if you believe her about her love dying in battle. I'm never sure if she has created this love to fill the romantic void in her life or if it's actually true. You never know with the dreamer.

 

*She seems too iron willed to pity. Blanche had virtually no will at all and was a study in dissolution, decay from neglect and lack of understanding.*

 

It is true that Jean comes off more in command, but it's all an act. Blanche has the same command, actually. They both speak a good game. But inside, they are as fragile as you say. And you are going to find an iron will like none other when it comes to protecting their self-delusion.

 

*Both she and Jean buried themselves in the ideal, but Blanche's ideal was gentle and soft, Brodie's was arrogant, harsh and political (gag) and she wanted to believe she never needed anyone. I despise such attitudes but I pity the dreamer like Blanche who knew she needed...needed...needed when she was forced to be the one propping up the family after her sister ran off and left her with the shambles of their life. Has Brodie ever had a real responsibility in her life of her own? Because the students are ultimately not her own children, they don't belong to her no matter what she or anyone thinks. I can't imagine Jean lifting a finger to take care of anyone or anything. Blanche cared for her family members and the house until it came undone and they all died on her.*

 

That was excellent! And I think you have drawn a great distinction between the two. Some of Blanche's delusions have to do with her happy days with her family, her home, something she has lost forever. Jean doesn't have this or doesn't speak of any of this. The closest she comes to this is her past love, as both have lost this. Blanche is definitely more familial.

 

Blanche is also, as you wisely point out, much less independent than Jean. At least, at the moment. Blanche was also a teacher who was run out of town for salacious reasons. Who knows if Jean ends up like Blanche? I doubt it, though. Jean is the type who could woo any new school board.

 

Blanche is much more damaged than Jean. But I see them very similarly. I think Jackie's comparison is really good. "Miss Brodie" really does feel like a Tennessee Williams character.

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:D She's a romantic dreamer. There's automatically an air of phoniness with such people. I should know! But the romance and dreams are honest feelings, actually. Their view of life and place in reality can be phony.

 

I mean she's phony when she pretends not to be interested in the art teacher when she is.

 

Her beauty! And I don't just speak of her physical beauty. She dresses differently than most. She has different opinions to most. She has a romantic aura to her. This can be very threatening to some and enchanting to others.

 

Possibly, again it's a small world so she would make a big splash. In London I doubt she'd get a passing nod.

 

Since Jean is delusional, she truly does believe in who she is and what she's doing. It's not just about ego with her. The longer one lives in their dreams the more they become a part of them. Jean has been in her dreams for a while, now.

 

Maybe, but there is something so aggressive and calculated about her way of expressing things that sounds so much like the airy-fairy society types who set themselves up as "artists" when in fact they are just full of crap and want to be a part of that anti-establishment world.

 

Quite possibly. But Blanche did have someone willing to do this for her.

 

Who? Karl Malden? Not once he listened to gossip and judged her. Some help.

 

*Blanche has to get past her delusions of who she is and where she is in life and I'm not sure she can do that. There's an ugliness to her current state and she longs for her beautiful past, as so many women do.*

 

She was ready to try with Malden, until the **** Brando gossiped.

 

It depends if you believe her about her love dying in battle. I'm never sure if she has created this love to fill the romantic void in her life or if it's actually true. You never know with the dreamer.

 

But what sacrifice did she ever make for a single human being? She doesn't hold any blame toward herself for anything she's ever done. Blanche carries a massive guilt about her dead lover.

 

It is true that Jean comes off more in command, but it's all an act. Blanche has the same command, actually. They both speak a good game. But inside, they are as fragile as you say. And you are going to find an iron will like none other when it comes to protecting their self-delusion.

 

Blanche does NOT have the 'same command'. She has managed to survive, but not as effectively as Jean, but then Jean seems to have managed to avoid any real complications and responsibilities in life, while Blanche has had them ride her like the furies.

 

*Blanche is definitely more familial.*

 

she's not just "familial", she took on responsibility. Jean avoids any kind of real commitment. Except to her little clones.

 

*Blanche is also, as you wisely point out, much less independent than Jean. At least, at the moment. Blanche was also a teacher who was run out of town for salacious reasons. Who knows if Jean ends up like Blanche? I doubt it, though. Jean is the type who could woo any new school board.*

 

That is where I see their similarities the most, the whole school thing, though I don't think Blanche ever tried to turn young girls into her clone. Her sickness was in seeing her dead youthful love in each young male student.

 

*Blanche is much more damaged than Jean. But I see them very similarly. I think Jackie's comparison is really good. "Miss Brodie" really does feel like a Tennessee Williams character.*

 

Smith would make a better Violet in *Suddenly Last Summer*, than a Blanche. She's too flinty to be anything soft like a Blanche.

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*I mean she's phony when she pretends not to be interested in the art teacher when she is.*

 

That's called being a woman!

 

*Possibly, again it's a small world so she would make a big splash. In London I doubt she'd get a passing nod.*

 

I think she'd still make a splash, but it would be a much smaller one. Beauty is always noticed, no matter where.

 

*Maybe, but there is something so aggressive and calculated about her way of expressing things that sounds so much like the airy-fairy society types who set themselves up as "artists" when in fact they are just full of crap and want to be a part of that anti-establishment world.*

 

I think you find this the most with Jean with her love of Fascism. This is where she is being overly idealistic. She doesn't fully grasp the reality of war, she only romanticizes about the ideas. She's certainly not the only person to do this, either. Far from it. Ivory Tower.

 

*Who? Karl Malden? Not once he listened to gossip and judged her. Some help.*

 

You are right, his own weakness and failings got in the way. I did forget about that.

 

*She was ready to try with Malden, until the **** Brando gossiped.*

 

You are right. Quiet Gal would absolutely adore Brando in this one!

 

*But what sacrifice did she ever make for a single human being? She doesn't hold any blame toward herself for anything she's ever done. Blanche carries a massive guilt about her dead lover.*

 

And this is true. It's a big difference in the two characters. And guilt does lead to self pity.

 

*Blanche does NOT have the 'same command'. She has managed to survive, but not as effectively as Jean, but then Jean seems to have managed to avoid any real complications and responsibilities in life, while Blanche has had them ride her like the furies.*

 

:) I speak of the command of their not budging an inch on the inside. They will not look to heal, they are looking to protect their romantic notions and beliefs. Blanche is living in the past. That's where she's at. She refuses to leave there. That's the same command I'm talking about.

 

*she's not just "familial", she took on responsibility. Jean avoids any kind of real commitment. Except to her little clones.*

 

I agree with you. Blanche was left to pick up the pieces of a shattered home. That left her shattered.

 

*That is where I see their similarities the most, the whole school thing, though I don't think Blanche ever tried to turn young girls into her clone. Her sickness was in seeing her dead youthful love in each young male student.*

 

While different on the surface, it's still quite similar. They are both attempting to find something they have lost through their students.

 

*Smith would make a better Violet in Suddenly Last Summer, than a Blanche. She's too flinty to be anything soft like a Blanche.*

 

She's probably a mix of the two. I think Jean is much warmer and attractive than Violet. Jean is a paradox in that she's full of life yet truly dead.

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*I think she'd still make a splash, but it would be a much smaller one. Beauty is always noticed, no matter where.*

 

I don't think she's beautiful, far from it. She dresses well, yes.

 

*I think you find this the most with Jean with her love of Fascism. This is where she is being overly idealistic. She doesn't fully grasp the reality of war, she only romanticizes about the ideas. She's certainly not the only person to do this, either. Far from it. Ivory Tower.*

 

Does she grasp any reality?

 

:) I speak of the command of their not budging an inch on the inside. They will not look to heal, they are looking to protect their romantic notions and beliefs. Blanche is living in the past. That's where she's at. She refuses to leave there. That's the same command I'm talking about.

 

"Command" is a word that fits the fascist-loving Jean but it does not fit Blanche who was doubtless repulsed by such things as sordid politics.

 

*She's probably a mix of the two. I think Jean is much warmer and attractive than Violet. Jean is a paradox in that she's full of life yet truly dead.*

 

Because she's young.

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*I don't think she's beautiful, far from it. She dresses well, yes.*

 

She has a beautiful aura.

 

*Does she grasp any reality?*

 

Not fully, no. The world revolves around Jean.

 

*"Command" is a word that fits the fascist-loving Jean but it does not fit Blanche who was doubtless repulsed by such things as sordid politics.*

 

:D "Command" isn't the best word for Blanche, no. But she has an iron will just as Jean does. She's not going to give in.

 

*Because she's young.*

 

Jean would love to hear that! But she's not young in the general sense. She's past her prime.

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:D"Command" isn't the best word for Blanche, no. But she has an iron will just as Jean does. She's not going to give in.

 

STREETCAR SPOILER!

 

so much for an iron will, she ends up going mad. people with iron wills drive OTHERS mad and so remain sane. I think Blanche is TOO VULNERABLE TO REALITY while Jean forces reality to fit her ideas. She will never acknowledge reality is what it is but Blanche knows it, sees it but RUNS from it into her delusions. Jean thinks the world IS the way she sees it.

 

*Jean would love to hear that! But she's not young in the general sense. She's past her prime.*

 

I meant compared to Violet (Kate Hepburn). Interestingly, it's because she's "past her prime" that Sebastian tossed Violet aside.

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STREETCAR SPOILER!

 

*so much for an iron will, she ends up going mad. people with iron wills drive OTHERS mad and so remain sane. I think Blanche is TOO VULNERABLE TO REALITY while Jean forces reality to fit her ideas. She will never acknowledge reality is what it is but Blanche knows it, sees it but RUNS from it into her delusions. Jean thinks the world IS the way she sees it.*

 

There's a lot of truth to what you say, especially about Jean. But with Blanche, even the mad have this iron will to not let go. They are clinging to something that they deem vital but it's also leading to their demise. They cannot get past themselves.

 

*I meant compared to Violet (Kate Hepburn).*

 

Oh, yes, definitely.

 

*Interestingly, it's because she's "past her prime" that Sebastian tossed Violet aside.*

 

That is interesting!

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that's not "will" that's desperation. everyone grabs at a life preserver when they are drowning.

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No, I think there is a stubborn will in all of us that refuses to let go of some things out of fear. I'm an expert in this area, trust me.

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jean is not the same as blanche, spiritually however you look at it. the similarities are in the retreat from reality, but not the reasons behind it. i judge by motives and jean's seem too ego driven.

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I completely agree!

 

But if Jean's story of her lover dying in battle is true, that is probably at the root of her delusional creation. I can't remember if she was purely relaying a fictional story or not. With her, you just never know.

 

Both Jean and Blanche cannot see who they really are anymore. Their reasons are different and how they go about compensating for their emotional fragility is completely different, as you've been noting.

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I've never seen "The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie" but if I may interrupt for just one hot second, I have to say your comment here Miss G.:

 

"I can see how young girls would be crazy for her, though. She massages their dreams while in reality she's only massaging her ego and protecting herself from the truth about her life. She can get away with fooling herself because she's in a small pond and dealing with impressionable young people...but put her in the big city shark tank and she'd lose a lot of that ego....and her illusions,"

 

...is really quite a profound observation on a movie character and how people act in real life. Just saying I was struck by what you wrote. BRILLIANT!

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Thank you, CinemAva...I'd love to know what YOU would think of the film if you get to it one day. :)

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The conversations I read and have read here at this thread, often make me interested in seeing films I might not ever consider watching; a testimony to the good-natured ribbing...and great writing. ( That's how I wound up seeing "The Student Prince in Old Heidelberg." )

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Hello there, Miss G!

 

She makes the art teacher seem honest, he at least doesn't pretend to be anything but a wastrel

 

TRUE!! ha. He was at least an admitted low-life. ha. He really had very few illusions about who he was and what he was doing. That is what (to me) makes him really just so detestable. He was completely aware of his own (and her) bad influence on the girls.. but he just didn't care. It was all about what HE wanted for his own pleasure. (no matter the wife and kids at home, or the fact he was involving himself in the lives of these young ladies in wholly innapropriate ways. Ugh)

 

Why the men are crazy for her I don't know

 

I think it was for the same reason the girls were.. she was different.. exciting.. and a breath of "fresh air" in terms of the splash of color (literally and figuratively) that she brought to such formal and staid surroundings.

 

I can see how young girls would be crazy for her, though. She massages their dreams while in reality she's only massaging her ego and protecting herself from the truth about her life

 

PERFECTLY said, young'un. It really was all about making herself feel better about her own life.

 

She can get away with fooling herself because she's in a small pond and dealing with impressionable young people...but put her in the big city shark tank and she'd lose a lot of that ego....and her illusions

 

Maybe.. but I have also known people who will still (even that sort of little fish, big shark tank setting) just scream to be noticed. They go out of their way to stand out and be different in any way that will get them the most attention. (I call it the "Hey Look At ME syndrome' ha.)

 

She likely would have had to try harder., but I bet she would have still found a way to surround herself with weaker, or lesser people who might not "stand-out" much so that she herself would stand out more. It's a vicious cycle.. but no matter the "pool size" people like Jean will usually seek out those who are weaker and more easily impressed.. just so they can impress them.

 

Ha.. don't ask me why, (because these two movies do NOT have any sort of common theme) but this makes me think of Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter and how he would break into his sermon with his tattooed fingers. Most of the folks he would tell that story to were not as strong (either mentally or spiritually) as they needed to be in order to not be fooled by him.. but Miss Cooper didn't buy it for a second.

 

 

 

I guess what I am saying is.. people who seek to hide themselves behind a persona are only successful so long as their "audience" is willing to either buy into.. or be bowled over by the image that is being presented. But there are always those.. like Rachel.. and Miss MacKay who can see the "real" behind the fa?ade from a million miles away. (And then there are those like Sandy.. who maybe can see it.. but will play along so long as it is to their own advantage)

 

Ro, I know Tennessee does use a lot of sarcastic dialogue, but in the midst of that he actually is one of the most compassionate writers, especially toward the weak and those who feel "different" (that would be me, so I love his plays for that reason). He isn't all about "cat fights", like his pallid imitators

 

I am sure you are right. I have to be honest and say that Cat on a Hot Tin Roof is actually the only one of his stories I can ever recall seeing all the way through.. and as you may recall, after all our back and forth gab session (and back and forth some more, ha) I actually ended up discovering that I really DID like that movie.. even if I've always hated it.. ha. :D So I am sure it is likely just all my Tennessee William misconceptions working against me. ha.

 

I don't think I have seen any of his other works (at least not completely) I know I have seen portions of The Glass Menagerie, but wow, it's been SO looooonnnnnnggg ago, I don't remember much at all.

 

I think I am most interested in checking out the Elizabeth Taylor/Katherine Hepburn one that you all chatted about a good long while ago.. (can't remember the name right now and am too lazy to go look it up, ha) But I just never have been interested enough to really seek it out.

 

And again.. I confess this is likely due to my pre-conceived ideas that all the folks do in his stories are rip each other apart verbally, ha. (So maybe I should give more of his stories a try before I write him off so harshly. :)

 

 

PS: Miss Maven... hope to read you thoughts on all things "JEAN" sometime.

 

PS: Grey Dude:

 

You are right. Quiet Gal would absolutely adore Brando in this one

 

Ha.. to borrow from the Duke. "That'll be the day" :D I can safely say (even though I have no idea about him in this film) that "adore" and "Brando" are two words I don't think I would EVER find myself using in the same sentence together (other than this one maybe.. ha) :D

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Ciao Mr. Softie!

 

Hola, Meanie Mint

 

Well at least I'm minty...Heehee!

 

Not snippy! I know who is snippy. You're snobby!

 

I am NOT snobby! I only stick my nose in the air when you're being highly delusional!

 

Shows how much you know!

 

I'm clueless, as usual!

 

Oh now you agree?

 

There isn't much story to be found. That's the first hang-up for people. The second is the visual silence. I just love the visual silence.

 

Oh noooooo!! Visual silence? I can handle that in Heaven Knows, Mr. Allison when noone is talking and trying to survive. That's about it. But it's pretty visuals. It's the same in Out of Africa for me. Pretty visuals with no talking in parts, but there is just WAY too much silence for me in 2001.

 

That would certainly be torture!

 

Yeah, especially if it was from Xanadu!

 

I watched that back in 2008 or 2009, I believe. I'm more of a romantic today than before I arrived on the board.

 

I think we've all noticed that, silly goose. We have succeeded in making you a softie romantic. Triumph is wonderful! I think this calls for a tea party!

 

It really does have a creepy vibe to it. It also has some disturbing moments.

 

Disturbing is the pefrect word for it. What is your favorite part of *The Innocents* or your favorite thing about it?

 

Not so much her. I like the three "bad men". They are terrific.

 

Naturally you would like them! The good, but bad guys. I liked George O'Brien a lot, but too bad he wasn't one of the three bad men. I kind of associate this one with *3 Godfathers*, but I know the stories are nothing alike. That may sound weird.

 

Nicely done! That list definitely seems like "you"... which is great. Well, all but one title! And how did Marilyn Monroe show up?!

 

Which movie are you surprised by? And I happen to love Marilyn! It's an adventure movie! You should hear SueSue sing "The River of No Return" in person. Heehee! She does quite a good job with CountessDeLave harmonizing.

 

You grandma must have loved MGM!

 

Well....actually yes she does, but that doesn't mean that's why I love MGM! Grandmama's big genres are musicals, swash buckling, and film noir, believe it or not. Why do you think I love talking about Film Noir? I grew up with it! I love those too!

 

I think you're silly!

 

That's for sure!

 

Now isn't the time to start admitting your shortcomings! Heehee!

 

It's really hard not to notice him! You're just saying that to make me flustered. I'm not giving in. NEVER!

 

Women!

 

What?!

 

There are some that I've gone wrong with!

 

Like which ones? Okay so *Life Begins* is sort of on the weaker side of her pre-codes, but I honestly can't say that I strongly dislike any of them.

 

This isn't Butterscotch!

 

I love how you talk as if I am always so predictable! :P:P I think I can surprise you on a couple ocassions...okay so the nude scenes in *Jean Brodie* where the teacher is painting the student bother me a little, but it's the movie as a whole that I like.

 

Johnson and Walter Pidgeon!

 

But you can never go wrong with Vanji and Walter!!

 

I still say it's the title of When Strangers Marry !

 

It's like a less glamorous wanna-be Hitch movie. Heehee!

 

A man in ruin by film's end thanks to a woman? That's almost always going to rate highly with me! Welcome to film noir!

 

Oh my goodness... a man ruined by a woman by the end of a film? That's almost every film noir! and what do you mean, "Welcome to film noir"?! What's that suppose to mean?

 

I can believe that. I'm sure her musicals with Fred are your favorites.

 

Wrong again! Heehee! This is fun! My favorite Rita musical is *Pal Joey*, followed by *Music in My Heart* and THEN *You Were Never Lovelier*. I actually think the other Fred/Rita musical, *You'll Never Get Rich*, isn't that strong of a musical to me.

 

I don't believe you!

 

Big surprise! You never believe me! Yet, Mr-I'm-a-softie-now didn't like romance years ago when we all joined here, silly. What if I didn't think that Film Noir wasn't in the realm of my favorite categories until I start chatting with all of you about it all that time ago and now I strongly love all of that I have seen? Then what? :P:P

 

My top ten would be:

 

1. Faust

2. Sunrise (although it's American-produced)

3. Nosferatu

4. Phantom

5. The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari

6. Destiny

7. The Last Laugh

8. Warning Shadows

9. Secrets of a Soul

10. The Hands of Orlac

 

OH MY GOSHLY! I can't believe this. I have actually seen some of your top ten! I have seen *Sunrise*, *Phantom*, *Secrets of a Soul*, and *Nosferatu*

 

I know *Destiny* is a Lang film and I have seen many of his works. I do have to say that *Secrets of a Soul* weirded me out to the point of almost turning it off. But you'd be proud of me, I watched it until the very end. The only reason I saw *Nosferatu* is because my mother absolutely loves any Vampire/Dracula movie. Because of this, I have developed a like for Vampire movies. They are definitely a guilty pleasure for me now and not something that is normal for me.

 

Buck Privates - (This is among my top 5 favorite Abbott and Costello movies. It sends me in raptures of never-ending giggles.)

 

You like it for the Andrews Sisters!

 

So I like the scenes they are in...They are too cute not to like! But Abbott and Costello PLUS The Andrews Sisters make it two times more wonderful! *Hold That Ghost!* is my favorite of the movies they are in together.

 

Ugh! I liked Operator 13 more. I thought Marion Davies was fun.

 

I wasn't really digging the whole pretending to be a black maid thing. I do like the visuals of this film with the soft focus. It makes for a pretty film, but the story is really screwy at times. and I'm the one who usually loves screwy, silly and utterly too cute plots.

 

I liked Aline better! But Loretta was fine, too.

 

You prefer Aline to Loretta? Is this one of those times you're being sarcastic? Her character or her looks?

 

The Prime of Miss Jean Brody - (Maggie earned that Oscar for it and it isn't particularly one I would normally go for, but I liked the controversy of what she goes through and how she handles it.)

 

But she doesn't handle it well!

 

But that's what I like about it. I like it when Maggie goes against the norm. She pulls it off so very well! Now, I'm not such a fan of her character, but you instantly believe it. She just can't keep it to herself or keep her mouth shut. She is politically outspoken and takes action of her own accord. While I like that she tries to be fierce, I also find at the same time that she tries too hard.

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Smith would make a better Violet in Suddenly Last Summer, than a Blanche. She's too flinty to be anything soft like a Blanche.

 

Good afternoon Miss G!

 

Can I completely agree with this? That's amazing, I can totally see Maggie smith trying to pull off Violet! she has the perfect amount of vigor and venom.

 

I have been reading you and Frankie comparing Blanche, Jean brodie and Violet. While I agree with you that Smith might be too fierce to pull off Blanche, have you seen her as Desdemona in *Othello* (1965)? It's like a complete transformation! She brings that vulnerable side to the screen like Leigh did as Blanche. It would be highly interesting; just thinking about it boggles my mind!

 

Edited by: butterscotchgreer on Mar 12, 2014 6:13 PM

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Hi *ButterTea*,

I haven't seen her "Desdemona", but she was very vulnerable and soft in *Young Cassidy*. She's a consumate actress so she can do anything, it's just that she has never been a great favorite. I will say that from what I've seen of "Downton Abbey" she's found another ideal role.

 

 

*Frank*:

What did you like about *The Last Time I Saw Paris* and Elizabeth's character? You didn't seem wild about her "Leslie" in *Giant* which I consider very similar to "Helen" (except Helen was more of a free spirit given her father's style and being in Paris, etc. both were very spirited and willful, though).

 

I think "Helen" may be the first to show Elizabeth's unconventional side. The bit with the fountain was supposedly based on F. Scott Fitzgerald's own wife's escapade in the fountain in front of the Plaza Hotel in NYC.

 

If you recollect, in *Marnie*, Rod Taylor keeps reminding her of her own incident in Rome in a fountain.

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