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rayban

"The Swimmer"

202 posts in this topic

Poor Danny. Nobody considers him a hunka-hunka o' burning luv on this forum. I have a feeling he and Larry were quite a riot together. The dialogue alone would make for one great comedy sketch. Anyhoo, back to The Swimmer...

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Well, I will say Danny had really nice hair and quite a nice physique. 

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1 hour ago, CaveGirl said:

OMG! That's one I've never heard, but I think Larry was much too handsome to make a nice looking couple with Danny. But then Truman Capote said Larry was a great actor but not too smart, and even Larry would agree with this assessment so maybe he liked Danny for his dancing and singing talents since Larry could not sing a note as witnessed in his performance in "The Entertainer". I do think Larry [I call him Larry since we were so close!] would appreciate Kaye's talents in that respect, since Larry once said the actor he envied most was Mickey Rooney since he could sing, dance, do comedy and do dramatic roles.

AND of course, there was also always that commonality that Olivier and Rooney shared, CG.

(...they both were once married to knockout gorgeous brunettes of some repute)

 

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2 minutes ago, Dargo said:

AND of course, there was also always that commonality that Olivier and Rooney shared, CG.

(...they both were once married to knockout gorgeous brunettes of some repute)

 

I'll assume you mean the one of Mickey's eight or more wives like Martha Vickers or Ava?

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Wow, this thread has really taken on a life of its own. Nobody's even discussing THE SWIMMER at this point.

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That is all my fault, responding to the Larry rather than John Cheever part of a post.

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1 minute ago, Jlewis said:

That is all my fault, responding to the Larry rather than John Cheever part of a post.

No worries. It's just this film is so great and I would think there's a lot more to say about it.

Screen Shot 2018-05-03 at 7.10.42 PM.jpg

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1 hour ago, CaveGirl said:

I'll assume you mean the one of Mickey's eight or more wives like Martha Vickers or Ava?

I know he means Ava since he said "gorgeous brunettes",  but I admit I'm partial to Martha Vickers.

 

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The film departs markedly from the short story.

But how many short story adaptations have been faithful to the source?

The most glaring example is J.D. Salinger's "Uncle Wiggily in Connecticut", which became 'My Foolish Heart".

My-Foolish-Heart-3-620x400.jpg

 

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1 minute ago, rayban said:

The film departs markedly from the short story.

But how many short story adaptations have been faithful to the source?

The most glaring example is J.D. Salinger's "Uncle Wiggily in Connecticut", which became 'My Foolish Heart".

Do you think this is because they have to add "filler" so they have 90 plus minutes for a feature? 

Universal when making THE BLACK CAT (1934) really did not stick to Poe's short story at all. 

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4 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

Do you think this is because they have to add "filler" so they have 90 plus minutes for a feature? 

Universal when making THE BLACK CAT (1934) really did not stick to Poe's short story at all. 

Probably, in most cases - they need a feature-length film.

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Yeah, and I've heard THIS is the very reason why Bambi Meets Godzilla is so dang short.

(...Marv Newland was terrible with character development)

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4 hours ago, TopBilled said:

The problem is that some people bristle at what they think is the "outing" of manly movie stars. They've accepted Rock Hudson was gay. But they can't deal with other stars not being totally hetero. They want proof. But actually some of the proof is very seedy, and I don't think the conversation needs to go down that path.

Plus as I said earlier it's mostly about impressions viewers have about what they see on screen. It's a sort of harmless fantasy fiction, and the stars' real life sexualities are almost incidental. If we cannot cope with some harmless fantasy fiction in this day and age, then maybe we shouldn't be online posting on a message board. Probably 30% of what is posted is exaggerated anyway, about all things. To expect complete accuracy about whether someone was straight or gay is unrealistic.

Ok,  I  have to respond now.   I agree that there is ONE perspective where some people can't deal with finding out a star they love is gay or bisexual.    BUT there is also ANOTHER perspective and that is where gay people say someone is gay because that is how they wish to view this star.    I.e.  as Jerry Seinfeld would say both wish for that star to be part of their team. 

Rayban and I have had this discussion before and I believe we have a common understanding.    I'm not criticizing either for their perspective,  just calling it as I see it.

But your assumption that some posters here 'cannot cope' is totally unfair IMO.

 

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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Ok,  I  have to respond now.   I agree that there is ONE perspective where some people can't deal with finding out a star they love is gay or bisexual.    BUT there is also ANOTHER perspective and that is where gay people say someone is gay because that is how they wish to view this star.    I.e.  as Jerry Seinfeld would say both wish for that star to be part of their team. 

Rayban and I have had this discussion before and I believe we have a common understanding.    I'm not criticizing either for their perspective,  just calling it as I see it.

But your assumption that some posters here 'cannot cope' is totally unfair IMO.

You are saying there is something wrong with someone who is gay wanting to view a star as also being gay. The implication being that it's a problem being gay. As I said before, some stars would laugh it off or else be flattered that a person likes them so much they want them to be "part of the team." 

There is absolutely no shame in being gay or wanting a movie star to be gay. Just like there's no shame in being straight or wanting a movie star to be straight. So there should be no problem with either perspective and you should not need to reach a so-called understanding about any of this. 

Do you have a problem with gay posters "outing" a star, because you have had people try to "out" you? Never mind, we don't need to know that. But something is driving your reactions.

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1 hour ago, rayban said:

My-Foolish-Heart-3-620x400.jpg

Great photo. I've never seen this film, Ray.

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28 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

You are saying there is something wrong with someone who is gay wanting to view a star as also being gay. The implication being that it's a problem being gay. As I said before, some stars would laugh it off or else be flattered that a person likes them so much they want them to be "part of the team." 

There is absolutely no shame in being gay or wanting a movie star to be gay. Just like there's no shame in being straight or wanting a movie star to be straight. So there should be no problem with either perspective and you should not need to reach a so-called understanding about any of this. 

Do you have a problem with gay posters "outing" a star, because you have had people try to "out" you? Never mind, we don't need to know that. But something is driving your reactions.

I'm not saying that there is something wrong at all;  I guess you fail to understand what "I'm not criticizing either for their perspective" means.

I'm done.  

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What a bunch of bunk rationalizing a desire by some gay men to view some "straight" screen figures as really, down underneath it all, gay or bi, just like them.

I guess we all fantasize to some degree. If that's your fantasy, that's fine. But accept it as such.

But in the real world as long as there is no evidence that Burt Lancaster was sexually attracted to men (and, so far, that remains the case) to talk about it is just a repetition of salacious rumours and nothing more.

Obviously a healthy respect for the truth, at least as we know it, only gets in the way of this fantasy world for some people.

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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I'm not saying that there is something wrong at all;  I guess you fail to understand what "I'm not criticizing either for their perspective" means.

I'm done.  

Don't quit now! The fun is only getting started!

51 minutes ago, TomJH said:

What a bunch of bunk rationalizing a desire by some gay men to view some "straight" screen figures as really, down underneath it all, gay or bi, just like them.

I guess we all fantasize to some degree. If that's your fantasy, that's fine. But accept it as such.

But in the real world as long as there is no evidence that Burt Lancaster was sexually attracted to men (and, so far, that remains the case) to talk about it is just a repetition of salacious rumours and nothing more.

Obviously a healthy respect for the truth, at least as we know it, only gets in the way of this fantasy world for some people.

You may need to make a little correction here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burt_Lancaster#Marriages_and_relationships

"Recent biographers and others"

should be changed to

"Recent biographers and some TCM forum members fantasizing that he is winking at them while dropping trou in The Swimmer"

Charlton Heston insisted that a script girl was fawning over him in the famous trial scene in Planet of The Apes, but I suspect that was his fantasy. After all, he already did the Mel Gibson Gallipoli routine with his bro-buddies earlier in that same film.

I sure hope some of you still have a sense of humor.

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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I'm not saying that there is something wrong at all;  I guess you fail to understand what "I'm not criticizing either for their perspective" means.

I'm done.  

I don't think I am failing to understand anything...but I've noticed that is sometimes your reply when your arguments are not convincing others.

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2 hours ago, TomJH said:

What a bunch of bunk rationalizing a desire by some gay men to view some "straight" screen figures as really, down underneath it all, gay or bi, just like them.

I guess we all fantasize to some degree. If that's your fantasy, that's fine. But accept it as such.

But in the real world as long as there is no evidence that Burt Lancaster was sexually attracted to men (and, so far, that remains the case) to talk about it is just a repetition of salacious rumours and nothing more.

Obviously a healthy respect for the truth, at least as we know it, only gets in the way of this fantasy world for some people.

The third paragraph above is strangely worded. Why should there be a need for evidence of any type? Evidence implies that something criminal may be happening. Why put sexuality on the same level as a crime?

Also what if a rumor might actually be true? (I notice the word salacious was added in the above response to make rumors about sexuality seem more nefarious.) Why be so eager to dismiss claims of a star's bisexuality? Unless it is "necessary" to fight the idea movie stars might be sexually fluid, and that they might actually be human. At any rate, I sense a lot of intolerance.

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2 hours ago, TopBilled said:

Great photo. I've never seen this film, Ray.

It's a very good film, too.

J.D. Salinger hated it.

And he would not allow film adaptations of his work.

 

 

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1 minute ago, rayban said:

It's a very good film, too.

J.D. Salinger hated it.

And he would not allow film adaptations of his work.

Wonder why he disliked it so much. Was he too much of a perfectionist?

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It wasn't the short story, but the movie grew out of the short story.

He was very protective of his work.

I don't think that he liked the movies.

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2 minutes ago, rayban said:

It wasn't the short story, but the movie grew out of the short story.

He was very protective of his work.

I don't think that he liked the movies.

Thanks...I'll have to try and hunt down a copy of the film.

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2 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

Thanks...I'll have to try and hunt down a copy of the film.

You should enjoy it.

649.jpg

 

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