spence

Is "VERTIGO" truly greater then KANE?

28 posts in this topic

   Virtually all of the most film history buffs on here are aware that after 50 years as ruling the top starting with the 1962 legendary "Sight and Sound Survey"-(est: 1952-) Not sure but I'd have to look this factoid up in my books, "Battleship Potemkin" may have very first victor

This stunned critics, directors & of course critics-(all combined with the UK, USA & International filmmakers, as do it's companion pc S & S Survey when this huge upset over the legendary *Welles picture!  & over 50 YEARS o less!

(NOTE: these were the international; critics survey, filmmakers have the other, where "KANE" topped it's every decade list again. But, "Vertigo" (l958-Paramount)   Not certain but at least over 1,000 votes-(maybe up to 400 overall?) in these & another tip, if you want to check out who voted for whom, go to S & S Survey by BFI & on the latter in late 1999 "The Third Man" (l950-UK) was voted as A #1 & they voted *Judi Dench-(l934-) as the UK's all-time finest actress.-(personally I woulda' cast my own vote on either *Blanchett & Winslet)

 

"Vertigo" is without question among my top 10 films yet made, but I'd still stick with CHARLES FOSTER KANE

 

(P.S. *Scorsese was once paking his car & that stupid show TMZ asked him his A #1 film & without pause, though *Marty did say "RIGHT NOW?' For his first time he immediately said "VERTIGO" unquote   Problem being he ALWATYS picked "THE SEARCHERS?")

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I'm not very enamored with VERTIGO. I think there was an attempt a few years ago by critics/scholars to posit Hitchcock as a greater auteur than Welles, and they felt VERTIGO was the movie to champion to push this view. But I do not think it is better than CITIZEN KANE. Nothing is.

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1 minute ago, SunAndMoon said:

Citizen Kane is way better than Vertigo.

Many times over. Many times. The two movies should not even be compared. V is trash in comparison.

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17 minutes ago, TopBilled said:

I'm not very enamored with VERTIGO. I think there was an attempt a few years ago by critics/scholars to posit Hitchcock as a greater auteur than Welles, and they felt VERTIGO was the movie to champion to push this view. But I do not think it is better than CITIZEN KANE. Nothing is.

It's tough to beat Citizen Kane.  I'm not sure Vertigo is Hitch's best film.  It's certainly among his top ten films, probably in his top five. I've read a few scholars mention Notorious as perhaps his best film.  I guess it's a testament to Hitch's greatness that there are so many great films to choose from.

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Citizen Kane is better than Vertigo.

And a lot of movies are better than Citizen Kane.

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AGAIN, I URGE YOU TCM-ITS TO RUSH OVER & CHECK OUT THE OFFICIAL & MASSIVE-(even has a regular magazine, like AFI used to)

 

At (sight and sound survey) or a buddy of mine will like you to it easily at (cinemacom)-(Simon cherpitel)

 

It's by BFI, but covers 100's of all-timers-(in it's voters opinions anyway)

 

I had browed for hrs over it years ago, but the website has grown A LOT!  There's also a fans all-timers section, something fairly new

 

& if you scroll a bit even *Scorsese, *"The Woodman:" R. Scott & a ton more allow you to see just how they voted.

 

LET ME KNOW IF YOU FIND IT & AGAIN YOUR OPINION

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Immediately checked all out for you fellow cinephiles  It added fans favs as I thought-(SOME BIZARRE, YET SOME SUPERB WINNERS)

 

& again it's by S & S & BFI

 

 

100 films in each the critics & then how directors voted in their own (FOR ME A KEEPER!)

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59 minutes ago, cinemaspeak59 said:

It's tough to beat Citizen Kane.  I'm not sure Vertigo is Hitch's best film.  It's certainly among his top ten films, probably in his top five. I've read a few scholars mention Notorious as perhaps his best film.  I guess it's a testament to Hitch's greatness that there are so many great films to choose from.

Do you own a fav. Hitch book, or dvd?

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BFI Top 10 Movies of All Time: Directors Choices

  1. Tokyo Story (1953)
  2. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
  3. Citizen Kane (1941)
  4. 8 1/2 (1963)
  5. Taxi Driver (1976)
  6. Apocalypse Now (1979)
  7. Vertigo (1958)
  8. The Godfather (1972)
  9. Mirror (1974)
  10. Bicycle Thieves (1948)

BFI Top 10 Movies of All Time: Critics Choices

  1. Vertigo (1958)
  2. Citizen Kane (1941)
  3. Tokyo Story (1953)
  4. Rules of the Game (1939)
  5. Sunrise (1927)
  6. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
  7. The Searchers (1956)
  8. Man with a Movie Camera (1929)
  9. The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928)
  10. 8 1/2 (1963)

 

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1 hour ago, TopBilled said:

I'm not very enamored with VERTIGO. I think there was an attempt a few years ago by critics/scholars to posit Hitchcock as a greater auteur than Welles, and they felt VERTIGO was the movie to champion to push this view. But I do not think it is better than CITIZEN KANE. Nothing is.

I own a small book-(not the 1 I truly wanted, bt a c;mas present)

 

P. Bognovich barely rated "M. Ambersons" over "Kane" & once when *Orson was visiting his house, "Ambersons" just happened to be on the tv & Peter said that during the classic snow  riding sequence, poor *Orson just burst into tears. Calling it final scene he was allowed to shoot himself! Then RKO brass sent him to s. America to do a good (***) docu "It All Came Through" all say when he returned to RKO & such, they actually locked him out of "The Dream Factory" & hated it's negative ending, so brought in *R. Wise   to reshoot it & of course with a happy ending instead

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16 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

BFI Top 10 Movies of All Time: Directors Choices

  1. Tokyo Story (1953)
  2. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
  3. Citizen Kane (1941)
  4. 8 1/2 (1963)
  5. Taxi Driver (1976)
  6. Apocalypse Now (1979)
  7. Vertigo (1958)
  8. The Godfather (1972)
  9. Mirror (1974)
  10. Bicycle Thieves (1948)

BFI Top 10 Movies of All Time: Critics Choices

  1. Vertigo (1958)
  2. Citizen Kane (1941)
  3. Tokyo Story (1953)
  4. Rules of the Game (1939)
  5. Sunrise (1927)
  6. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
  7. The Searchers (1956)
  8. Man with a Movie Camera (1929)
  9. The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928)
  10. 8 1/2 (1963)

 

NOT OLY FAT, BUT GREAT HOMEWORK PAL! (P.S. Not to put all on here, did you see some of each voters tops as well)  Check out *Woody Allen's, I was surprised at his he always highly regarded "C. Lights" "Duck Soup" *"Casablanca" & "Treasure Sierra Madre" Plus most anything with his top idol in it Bob Hope?

 

Obviously almost all are not as crazy about *"GFII" as the first one though?  I by a flip of a coin go with the first muself

 

(P.S. For some reason I no matter what could never get into a Foreign Language Film?

 

A few  "Cinema, Paradiso" (l98-Italy)-(one I'd someday hope to purchase)

"Das Boot"  "Ran"  & of course the magnificently made likes of "Napolean" (927-French), "Passion of Joan of Arc" (l928-France)_& with probably thee single greatest per an actress ever, by Maria Falconnetti)

 

& of course silent era comedy!!!   AN ENITE ART FOROM WENT BY WAYSIDE WITH COMING WITH SOUND

 

 

What is your favorite Hitch flick by the was/is? Maltin always cites 1935 British "39 Steps" (l935) & both Ebert & Siskel ALWAS chose "Notorious" & the sadly, tragic & already gone too soon Joel Siegel once sent me a GMA postcard & had "Grande Illusion" on it

 

 

GIVE IT UP FOR LAWRENCE!

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1 hour ago, spence said:

I own a small book-(not the 1 I truly wanted, bt a c;mas present)

 

P. Bognovich barely rated "M. Ambersons" over "Kane" & once when *Orson was visiting his house, "Ambersons" just happened to be on the tv & Peter said that during the classic snow  riding sequence, poor *Orson just burst into tears. Calling it final scene he was allowed to shoot himself! Then RKO brass sent him to s. America to do a good (***) docu "It All Came Through" all say when he returned to RKO & such, they actually locked him out of "The Dream Factory" & hated it's negative ending, so brought in *R. Wise   to reshoot it & of course with a happy ending instead

The sleigh ride scene is magnificent, just like those Ambersons were:

Screen Shot 2018-05-15 at 11.37.45 AM.jpg

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1 hour ago, LawrenceA said:

Citizen Kane is better than Vertigo.

And a lot of movies are better than Citizen Kane.

Ooooh! I like a person who will go out on a limb and risk the wrath of fellow compatriots.

That takes some guts, Lawrence.

I like both films tremendously. I dislike though trying to rate films, or people, or things and put them into little compact boxes, and make them compete. I've always thought of CK as a primo example of film, and the cinematography and cuts and dialogue is without compare. Yet Vertigo is a more emotionally stunning film in a totally different way. Welles and Mankiewicz combined to make a very important film, but being based on a real life person is somewhat limiting. Not in a bad way, but in a way that makes it very different in comparison to Vertigo, which is about falling, falling in love, falling down stairs, falling into a vortex that is symbolized by a hairdo formed into a French Twist style. Plus all art eventually ends in the death of beauty which is encompassed in the ending of Vertigo and makes it profound. Comparing these two films is like comparing the attributes of Judith Anderson to Brigitte Bardot. Totally impossible and inconceivable, so why try.

So sorry, Spence, though still fun to compare each to the other, ultimately it will end in a match that can never end though I still enjoyed reading all the takes on each film, so it was worth putting both horses to the match.

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23 hours ago, spence said:

Do you own a fav. Hitch book, or dvd?

To name a few, I like The 39 Steps, Rebecca, Saboteur, Notorious, and Rope.   

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Kane is better than Vertigo, but I didn't know how great it was until I heard the DVD commentary on Kane by the late Roger Ebert. He points out all of the innovations that people take for granted today that were pioneering at the time.

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Again, rush over to the famous S & Sound Survey by BFI   It started in 1952 & am not certain but think "Potemkin" won at #1   Then since '62 it was "KANE" for 50 years, until of course "VERTIGO"-(which literally stunned most pundits)

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On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 2:40 PM, TopBilled said:

The sleigh ride scene is magnificent, just like those Ambersons were:

Screen Shot 2018-05-15 at 11.37.45 AM.jpg

STILL MUST RATE AMONG THE ALL-TIME TOP 15 GREATEST MOTION PICTURES, even with  that silly finale (by*R. Wise)

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On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 2:14 PM, LawrenceA said:

BFI Top 10 Movies of All Time: Directors Choices

  1. Tokyo Story (1953)
  2. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
  3. Citizen Kane (1941)
  4. 8 1/2 (1963)
  5. Taxi Driver (1976)
  6. Apocalypse Now (1979)
  7. Vertigo (1958)
  8. The Godfather (1972)
  9. Mirror (1974)
  10. Bicycle Thieves (1948)

BFI Top 10 Movies of All Time: Critics Choices

  1. Vertigo (1958)
  2. Citizen Kane (1941)
  3. Tokyo Story (1953)
  4. Rules of the Game (1939)
  5. Sunrise (1927)
  6. 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
  7. The Searchers (1956)
  8. Man with a Movie Camera (1929)
  9. The Passion of Joan of Arc (1928)
  10. 8 1/2 (1963)

 

ABSOLUTELY MARVELOUS WORK PAL!

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13 minutes ago, spence said:

STILL MUST RATE AMONG THE ALL-TIME TOP 15 GREATEST MOTION PICTURES, even with  that silly finale (by*R. Wise)

Yes, the ending is abysmal. There's no other word for it.

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16 minutes ago, spence said:

STILL MUST RATE AMONG THE ALL-TIME TOP 15 GREATEST MOTION PICTURES, even with  that silly finale (by*R. Wise)

Bogdanovich had him over for dinner & it was airing on tv & just as the sled scene started & ending, Peter said *Orson just burst into tears  Final sequence controlled by  him was when Major Amberson died

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12 minutes ago, spence said:

Bogdanovich had him over for dinner & it was airing on tv & just as the sled scene started & ending, Peter said *Orson just burst into tears  Final sequence controlled by  him was when Major Amberson died

I thought you said the final sequence Welles was in charge of was the outdoor sleigh ride stuff.

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On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 1:17 PM, LawrenceA said:

Citizen Kane is better than Vertigo.

And a lot of movies are better than Citizen Kane.

LawrencA, can you name a few though please?

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Just now, spence said:

LawrencA, can you name a few though please?

Movies that I like more than Citizen Kane?

  • Apocalypse Now
  • Taxi Driver
  • The Godfather I & II
  • Goodfellas
  • 2001: A Space Odyssey
  • Dr. Strangelove
  • The Maltese Falcon
  • All Quiet on the Western Front

And many, many more. I appreciate that Citizen Kane is a ground-breaking, technically impressive film. But I've never really warmed to it. 

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3 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

Movies that I like more than Citizen Kane?

  • Apocalypse Now
  • Taxi Driver
  • The Godfather I & II
  • Goodfellas
  • 2001: A Space Odyssey
  • Dr. Strangelove
  • The Maltese Falcon
  • All Quiet on the Western Front

And many, many more. I appreciate that Citizen Kane is a ground-breaking, technically impressive film. But I've never really warmed to it. 

Fine compilation!  &though *"GFI" is my favorite ever made, I still rank "KANE" as A #1

 

"Apocalypse" was among earliest moviegoing experiences-(Tom's River, NJ) I was only about 15 then, but it put the movie hook in meJ

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