spence

Should GWTW be banned fropm movie theaters?

187 posts in this topic

Both Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn are quite often on the lists of books most often challenged but you’re right Huck Finn is probably more prevalent. I’ve probably read Tom Sawyer a dozen times because when I was a kid I somehow got a copy and it was one of the three books I owned. We went to the library quite often so buying books was an extravagance. To ban something just because of the N word and ignore the context and intent has always bothered me. Birth of a Nation is offensive now, but it was also offensive back then. It was actively trying to be offensive and helped breathe new life into the Ku Klux Klan. Tom Sawyer wasn’t offensive in that way and was against slavery and narrow minded thinking. 

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3 hours ago, spauldingd said:

It should come with a warning. Just like the warnings about violence or nudity. This film contains scenes of extreme racism and prejudice or words to that effect. 

Why should they have top do this when they did not every 20yrs ago?

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2 hours ago, spauldingd said:

Both Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn are quite often on the lists of books most often challenged but you’re right Huck Finn is probably more prevalent. I’ve probably read Tom Sawyer a dozen times because when I was a kid I somehow got a copy and it was one of the three books I owned. We went to the library quite often so buying books was an extravagance. To ban something just because of the N word and ignore the context and intent has always bothered me. Birth of a Nation is offensive now, but it was also offensive back then. It was actively trying to be offensive and helped breathe new life into the Ku Klux Klan. Tom Sawyer wasn’t offensive in that way and was against slavery and narrow minded thinking. 

I know they had riots during it's 1915 showings. Still, it's the 1st big event motion picture up to that point, it took almost a quarter of a century for another of course being GWTW

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Most film buffs, historians & critics of that era chose his 1916 INTEOLRANCE when it came down to listing their own top ten greatest films of all-time, many cited as #1 or at least in the top ten & though I have it in my files & books, don't think it was ever No. 1 when the first Sight and Sound Survey came around in 1952, but was in there I think 

 

(TRIVIA: D.W,.'s Babylon sets were so massive, that regular people on the streets surrounding his studio could easily see them from them.  I have a marvelous picture of that in a special history of THE MOVIES/HOLLYWOOD edition of Premiere I saved)

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3 hours ago, TheCid said:

Song of the South?  But, GWTW is Ted Turner's favorite movie (or was).  First movie ever shown on TCM.

& Turner even gave himself a very brief cameo in 1993 epic-(to say the least) GETTYSBURG ($8m) (***1/2)

He's a running confederate soldier that gets shot during Pickett's charge

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34 minutes ago, spence said:

Why should they have top do this when they did not every 20yrs ago?

Because societies and civilizations evolve. Posting information so consumers can make an informed decision is a reasonable accommodation. Certain topics can be triggers for some audience members so a warning is useful. The BBFC in England is a good example. Rather than just give a film an R rating, they describe the contents. 

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7 minutes ago, spence said:

I know they had riots during it's 1915 showings. Still, it's the 1st big event motion picture up to that point, it took almost a quarter of a century for another of course being GWTW

Being the first epic makes it interesting cinematically, but it’s subjects make it vile. 

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26 minutes ago, spauldingd said:

Because societies and civilizations evolve. Posting information so consumers can make an informed decision is a reasonable accommodation. Certain topics can be triggers for some audience members so a warning is useful. The  in England is a good example. Rather than just give a film an R rating, they describe the contents. 

Quoting myself, but I thought of a real world example I experienced. A few years ago I was watching all 100 of the top movies on IMDB and was watching The Apartment. I knew it was a comedy and had Jack Lemon so I figured it would be a light and fun film. And it is, *SPOILER ALERT* 

 

 

 

...until one character attempts suicide. Those that have been affected by a suicide might benefit from knowing that would be involved so they can decide if they are up for that. Again, the BBFC does a good job getting this across without spoiling the plots. 

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41 minutes ago, spauldingd said:

Quoting myself, but I thought of a real world example I experienced. A few years ago I was watching all 100 of the top movies on IMDB and was watching The Apartment. I knew it was a comedy and had Jack Lemon so I figured it would be a light and fun film. And it is, *SPOILER ALERT* 

 

 

 

...until one character attempts suicide. Those that have been affected by a suicide might benefit from knowing that would be involved so they can decide if they are up for that. Again, the BBFC does a good job getting this across without spoiling the plots. 

Both *Lemmon, *Wilder & more have always rated THE APARTMENT as their finest film  *Billy won an incredible 3 *Oscars for it. as you know it's not an all-out comedy like SOME LIKE IT HOT but a comedy-drama  Her fav. role used to be in *Sinatra's great 1958 SOME CAME RUNNING-(not only my fav. of his 58 films, but among *Scorsese's overall favs) though in later years she picked her creation & only *Oscar td for 1983's TERMS OF ENDEARMENT as Aurora. (P.S. I've told this story all over the place whenever her name pops up, my mother was a NYC Rockett circa 1962-(was the shortest at a wee-bit over 5'2 at the time) saved lots of photos from those days. While they worked out with the likes of *George Burns-(the girls hated him only because he changed the numbers to suit him & after they had been rehearsing so long), Carol Channing-(all the girls loved her) & Ricky Nelson-(they thought him snobby because he rarely spoke to them & even took his guards to the bathroom with him, I yrs later discovered what it was, Nelson was incredibally shy. But she admits she blew it when her & her girlfriend-(fellow Rockett) got loaded & actually missed seeing & working out with Mr. Bob Hope!  Anyhow, during this period she was in NYC at a G. Ballanchine ballet work out class & in comes *MacLaine-(with her somewhat IRMA LA DOUCE hair though still short as in THE APARTMENT) & she worked out nxt to *Shirley most of the day, think *Shirley also like her, they talked a bit but mum never asked her for her autograph or about being a movie star

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I also use sometimes imbd.com, but not nearly as much as this grand website.

 

(FOOTNOTE: On my mum & being a NYC Rokett, years later she became a security guard for the now long gone PLAYBOY CASINO in ATLANTIC CITY. Her next touch with greatness was she was called by her sgt to come up to a certain floor to escort somebody to the limo, well she went up & at the end of what seemed to her to be a veeery long hallway & getting longer when she saw who w3as waiting for her, it was*ROBERT DUVALL-(fresh off of APOCALYPSE NOW which she has gone to a couple of times) & he & her sgt just stared at her entire time she had to walk to them,. all she managed to say to BOO RADLEY, "LUCKY" NED PEPPER, TOM HAGEN, COL. KILGORE,. was I thought you deserved the *Oscar for APOCALYPSE & he agreed even signing an autograph but to me-(far away in Seaside Hgts, NJ)  However, her pal & best gal pal then worked RESORTS & this even topped *DUVALL, she actually got to escort *THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD SINATRA to his limo, of course surrounded by gumba's,etc & *FRANK not only gave her a massive tip, but asked if she wanted to go club hopping with da boys around AC, not knowing if she got fired, he then proceeded to pay her salary for that evening as well!!!  At the time mother knew I liked *SINATRA, but never knew he'd later become my runner-up idol.

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 HOLY MOLY!  Does anyone remember the 1970 comedy WATERMELON MAN with the early late Godfrey Cabridge & *Oscar winner Estelle Parsons? It's actually still funny (**1/2) though the last time I think it aired was around 1998, not a single mention, showing, writing nada of it since.

 

I recall when I was little in the early & mid 1970's my mom had it on tv whenever it aired.

 

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16 hours ago, spence said:

Which one?   Personally I can't remember TCM ever airing BIRTH though & I know it still does not have the rights to broadcast *UNCLE WALT'S full animated-features

GWTW.

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9 hours ago, spence said:

 HOLY MOLY!  Does anyone remember the 1970 comedy WATERMELON MAN with the early late Godfrey Cabridge & *Oscar winner Estelle Parsons? It's actually still funny (**1/2) though the last time I think it aired was around 1998, not a single mention, showing, writing nada of it since.

 

I recall when I was little in the early & mid 1970's my mom had it on tv whenever it aired.

 

I think the last time I saw it on TV was the 70s. You can watch it on Amazon but there is no DVD. If I remember correctly, isn't it about a white bigoted guy who wakes up black? His wife won't have sex with him, he loses his job, and by the last scene he is out doing hard labor on a road crew because that is the only job he can get, if I remember correctly. The overall plot shouldn't offend anybody, so there must have been some language used that keeps this one pretty much banned.

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everything coming out of Hollywood today is being aimed at the millennial demographic like no one else exists!

when I check my email what do I see? an advertisement for queen sugar...

I ain't a friggin millennial and I haven't had pay cable for 30 years!

who do they wanna ban GWTW for?

almost all demographics have seen it so why?...

and song of the south is one of the most innocuous films I have ever seen. what? an elderly black gentlemen can't have a rapport with a couple of white children?....and the film is being objected to by a buncha schtootzes who are pontificating to the rest of us all the time about racial harmony.

just what the fock is gonna be next? editing louise beavers outta Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House?

liberals just doan know when to quit with their hypersensitive HS.

:D

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14 hours ago, TopBilled said:

Her screen name. MotherofZeus.

I'm liking "MOZ" because it makes me feel like I'm Maz Kanata. I'll take the any time. MOZ works for me.

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hell....and I doan even like GWTW. why haven't they objected to Rex Ingram as uncle felix in God's little acre?

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11 hours ago, spauldingd said:

Quoting myself, but I thought of a real world example I experienced. A few years ago I was watching all 100 of the top movies on IMDB and was watching The Apartment. I knew it was a comedy and had Jack Lemon so I figured it would be a light and fun film. And it is, *SPOILER ALERT* 

 

 

 

...until one character attempts suicide. Those that have been affected by a suicide might benefit from knowing that would be involved so they can decide if they are up for that. Again, the BBFC does a good job getting this across without spoiling the plots. 

American film ratings are accompanied by some thematic generalities for people who bother to read them. I assume the plot twist in The Apartment would fall under a category like "mature themes" or "some disturbing images". I kind of balk at the idea of suggesting to an audience ahead of time that a movie is going to have plot twists that certain members of the audience might find upsetting. Or "trigger" them, if you want to use that word (I don't!). You can't protect everybody from everything. One of the best things about this movie is it defies the expectations you have going in and turns out to be darker than you would have expected. Almost any alert ahead of time to that fact at least partly spoils the viewing experience, in my opinion.

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10 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

everything coming out of Hollywood today is being aimed at the millennial demographic like no one else exists!

 

That's a ridiculous statement. Book Club, which is intended for women over the age of 50, is out right now and has grossed $56 million. Stop making absurd claims that just show you have no idea what you're talking about.

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how many films coming out of Hollywood today have american men over the age of 50 in mind? that is where the real marginalization is occurring.

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15 hours ago, spauldingd said:

It should come with a warning. Just like the warnings about violence or nudity. This film contains scenes of extreme racism and prejudice or words to that effect. 

It's akin to the intros we get on TCM providing context for those unfamiliar with the period within which something was made, etc. This dovetails into an earlier complaint on a different topic -- fewer movies shown on TCM -- angering viewers.  Yesterday between musicals, TCM aired an all female swing band from the WWII era (of course I instantly thought of Some Like It Hot), and I appreciated seeing another example of how movies and music were adjusting to Rosie the Riveter and the absence of men for traditionally masculine roles in the U.S. I have to say in seeing comments on this board, I didn't realize how many newbies to classic cinema were learning from TCM what to many is basic info.  With this being the case, such contextual programming as the extras, shorts, news and propaganda pieces of a particular period help neophytes get more from the movie. 

My point here is the Huckleberry Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird do need explanation within historical context for readers who aren't getting the history or literature education that provides context. Like the shorts TCM uses to provide context for movies, labels with warnings allow folks to be aware they are heading into material that needs some additional consideration. Said self-education is well worth it, and it is why all forms of art matter. 

One last example, history can be so sanitized that things that should be known are lost.  I was watching PBS's Victoria, and after the episode about the Irish Famine aired, many citizens of Great Britain went to social media to express they had no idea about this crisis in Ireland. Considering the British exacerbated a situation with a people they were suppressing as well as it being one of the main causes for Irish people migrating to the United States in the nineteenth century, I was flabbergasted to learn that British citizens knew nothing about it. Case in point as to why masterpieces addressing complicated issues, feelings, etc., must be woven into education, accessible material, etc. 

I've taken up my allotted space, but cheers to those holding the line on these films being available as I've seen many, many students become more understanding of history and society because of them. Besides, Mr. Clemens and Ms. Lee were superlative artists (Go Set a Watchman not being the follow-up Mockingbird deserves but worth a read anyway).

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because today's Hollywood schtootzes know that anyone over the age of 50 still might have some adherence to mid-20th century american mores that today's politically correct Hollywood has done it's darndest to exorcise themselves from.

the other night at the tonys when they gave de niro a standing ovation. they knew that de niro was really saying far more than simply bleep trump. he was really saying bleep 20th century vanishing white America. the people most of that crowd out there hates on and blames for trump being president.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NipkowDisc said:

because today's Hollywood schtootzes know that anyone over the age of 50 still might have some adherence to mid-20th century american mores that today's politically correct Hollywood has done it's darndest to exorcise themselves from.

the other night at the tonys when they gave de niro a standing ovation. they knew that de niro was really saying far more than simply bleep trump. he was really saying bleep 20th century vanishing white America. the people most of that crowd out there hates on and blames for trump being president.

The mid-20th century American mores and values of "The Greatest Generation," are actually in direct opposition to the lying, demagoguing, narcissistic, elitist, materialist  values demonstrated by He Who Must Not Be Named in the White House. We've never seen anything in classic Hollywood's cinema depicting quintessential Americana as anything like this president. If one is claiming that this president represents her because she is rural, white and over fifty, or blue collar, then one's leanse has been a bit distorted, I fear. The policies and actions of this administration do not reflect that the little guy or gal is forefront in their mind. Far from it. What the post above claims as Trumpian   is antithetical to mid-20th century American mores and values as reflected on film. Again, most people are somewhere in-between far left and far right and able to think rationally about differences.  Room for all kinds is what America is predicated upon, and I'm sorry that anyone feels so marginalized that they have to see things so narrowly. However, anyone who does see things in these terms is proving Mark Twain correct in his assessment of human beings. 

Edited by MotherofZeus
spelling correction
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1 hour ago, sewhite2000 said:

American film ratings are accompanied by some thematic generalities for people who bother to read them. I assume the plot twist in The Apartment would fall under a category like "mature themes" or "some disturbing images". I kind of balk at the idea of suggesting to an audience ahead of time that a movie is going to have plot twists that certain members of the audience might find upsetting. Or "trigger" them, if you want to use that word (I don't!). You can't protect everybody from everything. One of the best things about this movie is it defies the expectations you have going in and turns out to be darker than you would have expected. Almost any alert ahead of time to that fact at least partly spoils the viewing experience, in my opinion.

The BBFC explicitly calls out the thing that happens in The Apartment and that extra information is there if you choose to read it. Extra optional information doesn’t hurt anyone. If you like to go in cold, don’t read it.

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1 hour ago, NipkowDisc said:

how many films coming out of Hollywood today have american men over the age of 50 in mind? that is where the real marginalization is occurring.

I guess it depends on the 50 year old. I have MoviePass, am over 50 and go to the theater at least once a week.

Isle of Dogs, A Quiet Place, Chappaquiddick, Death of Stalin, Shape of Water, Film Stars don’t die in Liverpool, Bladerunner 2049, Phantom Thread, Ladybird, The Post, Darkest Hour, All The Money in the World, Novitiate, Marshall, Victoria & Abdul, Dunkirk, etc. 

Lots of great films out there for us grey hairs. 

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13 minutes ago, spauldingd said:

The BBFC explicitly calls out the thing that happens in The Apartment and that extra information is there if you choose to read it. Extra optional information doesn’t hurt anyone. If you like to go in cold, don’t read it.

Yes, it should be done in terms of warnings without spoilers.

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