spence

Should GWTW be banned fropm movie theaters?

187 posts in this topic

16 hours ago, spauldingd said:

Both Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn are quite often on the lists of books most often challenged but you’re right Huck Finn is probably more prevalent. I’ve probably read Tom Sawyer a dozen times because when I was a kid I somehow got a copy and it was one of the three books I owned. We went to the library quite often so buying books was an extravagance. To ban something just because of the N word and ignore the context and intent has always bothered me. Birth of a Nation is offensive now, but it was also offensive back then. It was actively trying to be offensive and helped breathe new life into the Ku Klux Klan. Tom Sawyer wasn’t offensive in that way and was against slavery and narrow minded thinking. 

I've never heard of Tom Sawyer being banned, but Huck Finn is the standard whipping-boy with black educators that gasp that slave Jim, horrors, doesn't speak perfect English!!

(Even though Twain was deliberately trying to shock 19th-cty. readers with Huck's humanistic awakening of anti-slavery conscience.)

Even the G-rated 1974 movie tried to soften it by making Paul Winfield's Jim a reasonably grammatical/educated domestic house-servant who was just married to a field slave...

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13 hours ago, EricJ said:

I've never heard of Tom Sawyer being banned, but Huck Finn is the standard whipping-boy with black educators that gasp that slave Jim, horrors, doesn't speak perfect English!!

(Even though Twain was deliberately trying to shock 19th-cty. readers with Huck's humanistic awakening of anti-slavery conscience.)

Even the G-rated 1974 movie tried to soften it by making Paul Scofield's Jim a reasonably grammatical/educated domestic house-servant who was just married to a field slave...

Well, that certainly wouldn't have been much of a stretch for Paul Scofield there, Eric. I remember him talking like a VERY educated man in A Man for All Seasons, if memory serves. And, with one of those British accents to boot!

(...you of course meant Paul Winfield here) ;)

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20 minutes ago, EricJ said:

I've never heard of Tom Sawyer being banned, but Huck Finn is the standard whipping-boy with black educators that gasp that slave Jim, horrors, doesn't speak perfect English!!

(Even though Twain was deliberately trying to shock 19th-cty. readers with Huck's humanistic awakening of anti-slavery conscience.)

Even the G-rated 1974 movie tried to soften it by making Paul Scofield's Jim a reasonably grammatical/educated domestic house-servant who was just married to a field slave...

Never mind that master dialectician that Twain was, he gives both his white American and black American characters accurate accents, dialect, and terminology to the geographic locale of each scene as they move down the Mississippi.  Reading the book, one is struck by how Twain clearly is making points about slavery and human character with the words he puts in his characters' mouths. Poor Huck has to "light out for the territory" because being civilized is too morally comprising. Don't get me started on anyone not teaching this book.

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19 minutes ago, Dargo said:

(...you of course meant Paul Winfield here) ;)

Corrected, thanks.  Was a bit out of my 'Fields, there.

(Although Paul Scofield could have gotten that mind-control earwig from "Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan".)

17 minutes ago, MotherofZeus said:

Never mind that master dialectician that Twain was, he gives both his white American and black American characters accurate accents, dialect, and terminology to the geographic locale of each scene as they move down the Mississippi.  Reading the book, one is struck by how Twain clearly is making points about slavery and human character with the words he puts in his characters' mouths. Poor Huck has to "light out for the territory" because being civilized is too morally comprising. Don't get me started on anyone not teaching this book.

Although Twain was a little less sympathetic in the two spinoff "Tom Sawyer, Detective" and "Tom Sawyer Abroad" novels he had to write for the money:

Where a more tween-age Tom is the "smart" plan-maker on their adventures, forever frustrated by Huck and Jim both having the exact same uneducated backwater non-clue of what he's talking about, and Tom fumes the usual I'm-surrounded-by-idiots slow burn...

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19 hours ago, Princess of Tap said:

 GWTW was my mother's favorite novel. So I read the book before I saw the movie.  In the late 60s it was in a special run at Fox Theaters in the Midwest.

The last time I was working abroad was in South Korea and they constantly replayed GWTW on the English cable.  Every time it came on, I swore I wouldn't watch it, but it's such a good cinematic representative of the Golden Age Hollywood movie.

I think nowadays most educated people don't get their history from romantic novels written in the 1930s.

I think nowadays people are well aware that Gone with the Wind is a fictional account of a woman's life during the Civil War and Reconstruction, Written by a woman who did all her research with Confederate Veterans.

Peggy Marsh was an extraordinarily gifted Romance writer who captured the fancy of the late 30s female American reading audience.

I don't think you have to approve of everything that's in a movie or to agree with everything that's in a fictional movie in order to watch it for entertainment.

We get into trouble when people start to confuse fiction with reality.

There's nothing wrong with having a cultural discussion about the film as people viewed it back then and as they may view it today.

 But I think most people who would want to see the film have already seen it and those who really love it bought the DVD years ago.

It's not in the spirit of American democracy to ban or censor literature or Cinema.

The more people have an opportunity to read and view the more they will learn about people and places and things that are different from them or may not coincide with their viewpoints. We all learn when we get a little bit out of our comfort zone.

BTW-- David Copperfield was the first book that I read twice and David O. Selznick made that into a movie too.

Just to be clear, I am also opposed to government banning or censoring literature or cinema.  But if people or groups wish to exercise their right to object to something and bring pressure to bear on private individuals or companies, that is something else.  Of course, it has to be done within reason and respect for their rights as well.

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4 hours ago, EricJ said:

Corrected, thanks.  Was a bit out of my 'Fields, there.

(Although Paul Scofield could have gotten that mind-control earwig from "Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan".)

Although Twain was a little less sympathetic in the two spinoff "Tom Sawyer, Detective" and "Tom Sawyer Abroad" novels he had to write for the money:

Where a more tween-age Tom is the "smart" plan-maker on their adventures, forever frustrated by Huck and Jim both having the exact same uneducated backwater non-clue of what he's talking about, and Tom fumes the usual I'm-surrounded-by-idiots slow burn...

Where did you get this perspective on Tom?  Twain writes Tom as a rapscallion of dubious character.  He is the one who may say he's educated and the leader, but it is what Twain shows in actions by Jim and Huck that demonstrate who the preferable characters are.  They don't know what Tom is talking about because he is so darn wrapped up in the scheme and the show of it all that he is exceptionally impractical and illogical. He's not who Twain depicts as where his sympathies lay.  His sympathies are with Jim and Huck. I think Tom is much closer to Sam Clemens and therefore Twain holds some contempt for Tom.

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4 hours ago, EricJ said:

Corrected, thanks.  Was a bit out of my 'Fields, there.

Yeah, but it's probably a sure bet you'll at least never get him confused with W.C. though, huh. ;)

And speaking of Paul WINfield here...

I once ran into the man in a St. Thomas Virgin Islands hotel elevator back in the mid-'70s. Nice man. I remember telling him how much I enjoyed him in Sounder during our brief chat down to the lobby.

(...okay, and now back to Huck and friends)

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For me there can only be one Moz. I know, I know, it's not serious.

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Some oldsters seem to get a thrill out of criticizing younger people. I

think jealousy had a lot to do with it. Just as in the past, things will

work out fine and the kids will be alright.

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1 hour ago, Vautrin said:

Some oldsters seem to get a thrill out of criticizing younger people. I

think jealousy had a lot to do with it. Just as in the past, things will

work out fine and the kids will be alright.

a couple of weeks ago there was a big riot at a shopping mall here. 200 out of control teenagers.

oh yeah they're fine.

:D

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19 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

a couple of weeks ago there was a big riot at a shopping mall here. 200 out of control teenagers.

oh yeah they're fine.

:D

Nippy-- You were a teenager once. I'm sure you can remember the time.

You never did something silly or just downright rebellious during the time you were a teenager?

Sometimes when people get to be older and middle-aged they forget exactly how much fun and how much they enjoyed just being silly with their teenage friends. Kids are still just being kids.

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20 hours ago, spence said:

 HOLY MOLY!  Does anyone remember the 1970 comedy WATERMELON MAN with the early late Godfrey Cabridge & *Oscar winner Estelle Parsons? It's actually still funny (**1/2) though the last time I think it aired was around 1998, not a single mention, showing, writing nada of it since.

 

I recall when I was little in the early & mid 1970's my mom had it on tv whenever it aired.

 

The folks over at the "When Did it Last Play on TCM?" thread say that Watermelon Man is going to play on TCM in September 2018 an has played several times there.

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4 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

a couple of weeks ago there was a big riot at a shopping mall here. 200 out of control teenagers.

oh yeah they're fine.

:D

No biggie, we'll survive. Today's out of control teenagers are the day after tomorrow's

golf playing retirees. 

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2 hours ago, Vautrin said:

No biggie, we'll survive. Today's out of control teenagers are the day after tomorrow's

golf playing retirees. 

Oh! Watched the PBS rebroadcast of that old "Summer of Love" documentary last night TOO, did ya Vautrin?!

;)

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6 hours ago, Dargo said:

Oh! Watched the PBS rebroadcast of that old "Summer of Love" documentary last night TOO, did ya Vautrin?!

;)

"Summer of love"?  That was the same summer Detroit had it's big RACE RIOT, that I remember as clearly as if it happened just last month, let ALONE more than 50 years ago!  :o  :blink:

It's what any of this has to do with banning GWTW from theaters is what I'm not sure of.  ;)

Sepiatone

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13 hours ago, Princess of Tap said:

Nippy-- You were a teenager once. I'm sure you can remember the time.

You never did something silly or just downright rebellious during the time you were a teenager?

Sometimes when people get to be older and middle-aged they forget exactly how much fun and how much they enjoyed just being silly with their teenage friends. Kids are still just being kids.

I was atypical, one of those few good kids who did what he was told.

:)

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1 hour ago, NipkowDisc said:

I was atypical, one of those few good kids who did what he was told.

Yes, there were some. So Nipkow, are you going to keep the avatar of Trump for the whole 8 years he's in office? 

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1 hour ago, NipkowDisc said:

I was atypical, one of those few good kids who did what he was told.

:)

This doesn't surprise me at all here, Nip!

Nope, the idea that you never went through a rebellious stage during your adolescent years, and where it's normal and healthy to question our imperfect parents and their values, would be just as I'd expect to hear coming from you.

(...however, I hope you DO realize that the reason you so admire the man you've chosen as your latest avatar is because he represents this phase in life that you never went through, and thus now days subconsciously desire to return to and finally experience)

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3 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

"Summer of love"?  That was the same summer Detroit had it's big RACE RIOT, that I remember as clearly as if it happened just last month, let ALONE more than 50 years ago!  :o  :blink:

It's what any of this has to do with banning GWTW from theaters is what I'm not sure of.  ;)

Sepiatone

Well Sepia, first, nobody's ever gonna confuse the cities of San Francisco and Detroit with each other, ya know! 

(...and secondly, yeah, what the hell DOES this have to do with the topic of banning GWTW anyway, RIGHT?!) ;)

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I would love to have enough money to own and operate a movie theater, making me a multimillionaire, right? My movie theater would be a drive-in, because I have fond memories of being in my PJs, backing the station wagon, into the space, and watching a movie out the back window. For me, there is nothing really exciting about a traditional movie theater. Jimmy's Drive-In would show the movies I selected. I would play classic movies. I wouldn't 'ban' movies that didn't fit my morals, I just wouldn't play them. I would play longer films like Giant and Gone With The Wind, as I would only be able to play a single film per evening.

Laugh if you want, but here is a real drive-in:
http://rodeodrivein.com

"Let's All Go To The Snack Bar."

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I don't want to ban any films, because then someone will want to ban films I like.

I would like to ban the rapper, Ice-T though from narrating any more of those reality crime shows, like "In Ice Cold Blood" because he stinks, and sounds extremely boring with no inflections to his one-note monologues. He should take a lesson in how to make such narration sound exciting and lurid, from actress, Laura San Giacomo, who narrates the series "Snapped" about women who flip out and start offing all the men in their lives. She has amazing talent for narration and a sultry and mercurial voice, that has shades of meaning, while Ice-T has one mode, boring.

Laura's narration about sex, crime and money compared to Ice-T's would be comparable to comparing Orson Welles as narrator with Richard Denning. Yes, so ban Ice-T from hosting a crime show, since he has no narration talents, but leave GWTW alone!

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On 6/13/2018 at 7:40 AM, NipkowDisc said:

how many films coming out of Hollywood today have american men over the age of 50 in mind? that is where the real marginalization is occurring.

 

On 6/13/2018 at 7:11 AM, NipkowDisc said:

everything coming out of Hollywood today is being aimed at the millennial demographic like no one else exists!

 

You might want to believe its a political issue but, its really quite simple.

1) Advertisers cater to those under 40 because commercials don't really work on people 50+. You already know what detergent you're going to use, which make of car you will buy, what bank you will use. People 50+ are set in their ways. No commercial for a Hyundai is going to sway someone who has driven Toyotas for 30 years.

A younger person on the other hand doesn't have that history therefore, might be open to new brands. So they are whom the advertisers appeal to. And without Advertising, entertainment comes to a halt. Unless you wish to pay for your entertainment.

2) People 50+ don't get out to theaters these days. Too many have home entertainment systems with big screen and stereo sound. No waiting in lines, expensive concessions, kids crying, $20 tickets etc... It makes no sense to make too many films for 50+ in theaters if they refuse to attend them.

On the other hand, OTA channels on free television are catering to the older demographic. There's TCM and FilmStruck. And a wealth of historical dramas on the various streaming channels.

The only real question is: In 2018, why depend on Hollywood to produce your entertainment ?

 

 

 

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My last time in a movie theater was 2002. A Walk To Remember. Right up my alley. A Hallmark-ish kind of film. I would not feel comfortable anymore, going to a theater. I am eager to see I Can Only Imagine, a rare kind of movie for these times. All the entertainment I desire is on TV. Yes, I would like to have a bigger screen and more advanced sound. At 60, indeed, my mind is mostly made up, and I do hate annoying ads on TV, and even more, the Internet. My favorite ads are the really dumb ones that are funny.

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