Sign in to follow this  
rayban

Grant Williams

64 posts in this topic

Yes, I am not answering that question.

That is all.

In talking about Grant Williams' "blacklisting" within the industry, I do think that a particularly nasty strain of homophobia MIGHT have been involved.

One of Grant Williams' explanations involved a fight with a Warner Bros. executive on the set of "Hawaiian Eye".

Another of his explanations involved a fight with producer/actor Jack Webb (when Grant Williams was working on a "Dragnet" episode).

That is all.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, jaragon said:

Grant Williams was a fine looking man...

 

Yes, he was a beauty.

Giancarlo Stampalia says the same thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, jaragon said:

Grant Williams was a fine looking man...

 

This scene looks as if it's leading up something else...

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, rayban said:

Yes, I am not answering that question.

That is all.

In talking about Grant Williams' "blacklisting" within the industry, I do think that a particularly nasty strain of homophobia MIGHT have been involved.

One of Grant Williams' explanations involved a fight with a Warner Bros. executive on the set of "Hawaiian Eye".

Another of his explanations involved a fight with producer/actor Jack Webb (when Grant Williams was working on a "Dragnet" episode).

That is all.

 

 

His career really went downhill in the 1960's- one can imagine that he would have been cast in at least more tv shows

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, jaragon said:

His career really went downhill in the 1960's- one can imagine that he would have been cast in at least more tv shows

He left the business, started a drama school and taught Method acting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand how Universal International could have let him go - after he starred in their huge box-office hit, "The Incredible Shrinking Man".

Just before he left, they had him co-star alongside Coleen Gray in "The Leech Woman". 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rayban said:

I don't understand how Universal International could have let him go - after he starred in their huge box-office hit, "The Incredible Shrinking Man".

Just before he left, they had him co-star alongside Coleen Gray in "The Leech Woman". 

"The Incredible Shrinking Man" is a sci-fi classic and should have made Grant a bigger star but perhaps in those days sci-fi movies were not highly regarded.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He became involved with getting his fan club off-the-ground.

Giancarlo Stampalia has correspondence about Grant Williams' attempts.

But it did not quite blossom into a full-fledged fan club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grant Williams made a very interesting thriller with Shirley Knight in 1962, "The Couch".

But it has almost no reputation today.

Universal-International had little or no faith in it.

It became the bottom half of a double bill.

actor-grant-williams-and-actress-shirley

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

His last film, which was released in 1971, was "How's Your Love Life?".

He said that, in the film, he looked like he was playing a homosexual

He also said that he would never, ever play a homosexual.     

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/23/2018 at 12:44 PM, rayban said:

I just read a very long and very involved biography of Grant Williams.

Basically, it is an intense (overly-intense) appreciation of his work in film and television.

But it works overlong and overhard to prove that Grant Williams was NOT A HOMOSEXUAL.

Why not? - because there is no hard evidence.

For me, now, Grant Williams is obviously a homosexual.

 

I read excerpts from a book involving same gender relationships, not always sexual but sometimes just intense friendships, that existed in America between the 1600s, the time Europeans invaded and sought to change the way the natives were living their lives, through early 1900s. The author argued that, at least during the 20th century, practically every historian had a motto of assuming that, given how private people were behind closed doors, everybody deceased must have been heterosexual unless proven otherwise. (Then again, some define heterosexuality and homosexuality strictly by what body parts are used with another person's body parts and not by attractions and desires alone.) This also seems to be the motto of many dedicated posters who are deathly afraid that their favorite movie icons of yesteryear weren't 100% "straight" like they perceive themselves to be... and want to perceive themselves to be.

My impression from what I have read about Grant is that he was very conflicted and troubled in his private life. What exactly was going on behind closed doors can only be guessed.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Jlewis said:

I read excerpts from a book involving same gender relationships, not always sexual but sometimes just intense friendships, that existed in America between the 1600s, the time Europeans invaded and sought to change the way the natives were living their lives, through early 1900s. The author argued that, at least during the 20th century, practically every historian had a motto of assuming that, given how private people were behind closed doors, everybody deceased must have been heterosexual unless proven otherwise. (Then again, some define heterosexuality and homosexuality strictly by what body parts are used with another person's body parts and not by attractions and desires alone.) This also seems to be the motto of many dedicated posters who are deathly afraid that their favorite movie icons of yesteryear weren't 100% "straight" like they perceive themselves to be... and want to perceive themselves to be.

My impression from what I have read about Grant is that he was very conflicted and troubled in his private life. What exactly was going on behind closed doors can only be guessed.

Not to rehash the earlier differences of opinion earlier in the thread, but I don't think we can really ever know if someone is "obviously" gay. The word "obviously" seems like such a broad brush stroke, especially when as you say we can only guess. Now if we're talking about Richard Simmons, then yes the phrase "obviously gay" might be correctly applied, but even then some of the most flaming gay men have experimented with women.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Richard Simmons is gay? I just thought he was always relentlessly happy.

I only caught up with the comments on Kerwin Matthews. I did examine the online material on him a bit in the past. Of course, Bing Crosby had nothing to fear on the set of 7th Voyage Of Sinbad. From what I gathered, he lived his life much like Dick Sargent and Richard Chamberlain. He was comfortable in his relationships but also maintained the Hollywood "don't ask, don't tell" rule because it kept him employed.

With Grant, there was definitely something bothering him. Adding to this was his religious upbringing. From many discussions online that I have read, it seems that he was intensely private and must have felt there was something to hide, whatever that was. Never married, using work as an "excuse". No, we should never jump to conclusions but he is one definitely worth questioning.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will have to investigate Stampalia's book. I am curious about all of the new "hard" evidence proving he was "obviously" heterosexual. I am even MORE curious why Stampalia is so intent on stopping any speculations that Grant could have been gay. Maybe he personally has a hang-up about the issue himself?

Oh... regarding the word "obviously" being used with the word "gay", you have to consider what the word "gay" means, apart from being happy and carefree. Many people do not consider themselves "gay" because they have never done "X" or "Y" with a member of the same gender although they might have done "W", which they think is not "gay" enough to be labeled "gay". Maybe they touched somebody of the same gender in a questionable way at some point in their lives... to satisfy some curiosity... or "took a peek" at people naked who shared similarities in plumbing systems... again, to satisfy a certain curiosity. Everybody has their own opinion of what defines being "gay".

Hugh Hefner had no shame to his game and admitted in print he "tried it" with a guy (and I personally think that he tried a few more times than he admitted... "just to be sure"). He did it "for the experience" even though he still favored women more on his regular scheduled menu. To me, he is a perfect example of an "obviously" (obvious) heterosexual who was comfortable in who he was and wasn't terribly concerned about what the public thought of him.

William Haines was "obviously" gay in more ways than one. (I always found it interesting how close his friendship was with Carole Lombard, who was married to... you know who.)  Yet he refused to support the early pride marches in his last years, disliking how "out" the younger generation was. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Giancarlo Stampalia's need to bend over backwards to prove that Grant Williams WAS NOT HOMOSEXUAL is, in itself, highly questionable behavoir.

I lost patience with Mr. Stampalia many times.

I would guess that Mr. Stampalia is homosexual himself - and does not approve of or accept his homosexuality - like a friend of Mr. Grant's said of him - that he would not accept his homosexuality - and was finally going off the deep end - and even, according to Randy Stuart (his co-star in "The Incredible Shrinking Man") sought solace in the end in his Catholic faith - and that Mr. Stampalia cannot accept the fact that his "hero" liked MEN.

As if, in today's world, being homosexual is being a bad person.

If anything, Mr.  Stampalia's biography proves the opposite of his intentions- yes, that Grant Williams, beautiful, alluring, alone and unhappy, was a homosexual.

3e1e3d9fdf021c40292621944bbfae6d.jpg

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In 1961, Mr. Williams said famously of himself in an interview with Don Alpert -

"I have a private life that I think is horrible."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What exactly does Stampalia say about Grant's private life? Are women discussed? I remember one of Cary Grant's ex-wives insisting he was very "straight" back on a late 1980s TV show and I am sure she was thinking of how good he was sexually with her and, yes, he loved certain women as equally as Randolph Scott. Not that I am suggesting they were anything but bro-buddies, mind you. Maybe they just did "W" instead of the other letters.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You would have to read the biography.

Yes, women are discussed.

But he did not have an intimate relationship with any of them.

He was very good friends with gay movie star, George Nader.

He realized that he had spent most of his life - alone.

actress-stella-stevens-and-actor-grant-w

Four_Girls_in_Town.jpeg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stampalia sounds like anti-Darwin Porter.  Mr Porter in his fan fiction biographies makes almost every male star in Hollywood gay. Stampalia goes out of his way to make Grant Williams heterosexual.  Of course it's hard to write a book about a man who was so protective of his private life. But the curious fact is that Williams never married- even Rock Hudson was married to a woman and we know he was anything but straight.  Of course there are straight men who never get married either- so unless someone can dig up one of William's lover it's really hard to prove either way. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are excerpts of this biography that you can google online. This key line is significant: "While the hypothesis of Williams' homosexuality might have its allure and even a degree of plausibility, many of those who knew the actor disagree with it."

Well... how would "many of those" know prior to 1985? According to a recent article on The Advocate online, in the year of 2018, well over half of all "out" gay men and lesbians are only "out" to select friends and family. NOT co-workers and others they deal with professionally. There is STILL a lot of prejudice and stigma. It was so much worse when Williams was alive.

I do agree with Stampalia that the fact he never married and knew people who were gay does not prove anything. I also agree with Melissa Ward he quotes as saying that, even though she personally didn't think he was gay (yet she was merely an acting student of his!), "you can't really divide people into categories and put easy labels on them such as gay, straight, etc."

However he stumbles a bit with this comment that all of the coincidences (i.e. unmarried, etc.) "are meaningless." No, nothing is meaningless. He then tries to come up with an alternative or, rather, a distracting answer: the fact that Williams kept changing agents more regularly than most actors who took their careers seriously suggested an "inability to form long lasting relationships, with film studios and people alike". Hhhmmmm... I will accept that answer only partially.

I mean... he might do better going the President James Buchanan route. Historians agree that he may have been homosexual, bisexual or heterosexual but there isn't enough 19th century proof that he was even sexual. We just know that the president gave very gay parties in Washington D.C.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jlewis said:

There are excerpts of this biography that you can google online. This key line is significant: "While the hypothesis of Williams' homosexuality might have its allure and even a degree of plausibility, many of those who knew the actor disagree with it."

Well... how would "many of those" know prior to 1985? According to a recent article on The Advocate online, in the year of 2018, well over half of all "out" gay men and lesbians are only "out" to select friends and family. NOT co-workers and others they deal with professionally. There is STILL a lot of prejudice and stigma. It was so much worse when Williams was alive.

I do agree with Stampalia that the fact he never married and knew people who were gay does not prove anything. I also agree with Melissa Ward he quotes as saying that, even though she personally didn't think he was gay (yet she was merely an acting student of his!), "you can't really divide people into categories and put easy labels on them such as gay, straight, etc."

However he stumbles a bit with this comment that all of the coincidences (i.e. unmarried, etc.) "are meaningless." No, nothing is meaningless. He then tries to come up with an alternative or, rather, a distracting answer: the fact that Williams kept changing agents more regularly than most actors who took their careers seriously suggested an "inability to form long lasting relationships, with film studios and people alike". Hhhmmmm... I will accept that answer only partially.

I mean... he might do better going the President James Buchanan route. Historians agree that he may have been homosexual, bisexual or heterosexual but there isn't enough 19th century proof that he was even sexual. We just know that the president gave very gay parties in Washington D.C.

 Williams did not identify himself as gay and there is no way to prove otherwise unless one of his lovers comes out with some proof. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In his later years, he became alcoholic and prematurely aged.

According to one online source, a man who knew him, not identified, though, he was gay.

He simply refused to accept it.

I think that the realization that he was gay was allowed to set him apart from everyone and everything.

He became a loner.

The fact that his very own secretary doesn't even know the truth about him - straight or gay?, but guesses straight - shows how carefully and cleverly he hid his true self from the world.

In his Hollywood at the time, he was able to go out on so many publicity dates with women - many of whom used him to advance their Hollywood careers.

In that respect, he was probably more than willing to - cooperate.

Warner Bros. was very "high" on him and cast him in "Hawaiian Eye".

He had also made "Susan Slade" and "PT 109" for them.

If he had married, he might have had a more substantial career.

After all, there must've been plenty of struggling actresses who would've married a gay man to advance their own careers.

It would be interesting to know the details of his so-called "blacklisting" - one of which he blames on a Warner Bros. executive and one of which he blames on Jack Webb.

Rock Hudson went to bed with Edward Muhl, the head of production at Universal International, Inc.

Perhaps Grant Williams refused to play the game.

Grant+Williams+-+Anthony+Eisley+(Hawaiia

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's such a shame that the "Hawaiian Eye" TV series is not available in boxed sets.

It was such a popular show in its' time.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, rayban said:

In his later years, he became alcoholic and prematurely aged.

According to one online source, a man who knew him, not identified, though, he was gay.

He simply refused to accept it.

I think that the realization that he was gay was allowed to set him apart from everyone and everything.

He became a loner.

The fact that his very own secretary doesn't even know the truth about him - straight or gay?, but guesses straight - shows how carefully and cleverly he hid his true self from the world.

In his Hollywood at the time, he was able to go out on so many publicity dates with women - many of whom used him to advance their Hollywood careers.

In that respect, he was probably more than willing to - cooperate.

Warner Bros. was very "high" on him and cast him in "Hawaiian Eye".

He had also made "Susan Slade" and "PT 109" for them.

If he had married, he might have had a more substantial career.

After all, there must've been plenty of struggling actresses who would've married a gay man to advance their own careers.

It would be interesting to know the details of his so-called "blacklisting" - one of which he blames on a Warner Bros. executive and one of which he blames on Jack Webb.

Rock Hudson went to bed with Edward Muhl, the head of production at Universal International, Inc.

Perhaps Grant Williams refused to play the game.

Grant+Williams+-+Anthony+Eisley+(Hawaiia

 

He is like a tragic figure worthy of a play

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

New Members:

Register Here

Learn more about the new message boards:

FAQ

Having problems?

Contact Us