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mr6666

democracy, free speech, civility, protest?

255 posts in this topic

I would include "Free Speech" in the title, as it seems to be a crux for many of the arguments. What is and isn't protected? How does Free Speech coincide with civility, common decency and/or respect, if at all? Should it?

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Seth Rogen Refuses Photo with Paul Ryan, Scolds GOP Lawmaker in Front of His Kids

 

".....The actor and comedian was speaking at an event to promote brain health hosted by Mitt Romney when he was first approached by two teenage children, who asked to take a picture with him. After taking the fan photo, the two kids told Rogen that their father wanted to meet him.

"And I turned around and Paul Ryan was walking towards me," Rogen said. The two shook hands before Ryan asked for a photo with the star, and that's where things went downhill...........

http://www.newsweek.com/seth-rogen-paul-ryan-children-denies-photo-992713

:huh:

 

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2 hours ago, jakeem said:

Bradley P. Moss Retweeted Erick Erickson

There was a reason we used to look to Presidents for moral leadership....

The president has always had the complicated job of being the head of the federal government as well as the head of state.

And the president represents the American people to the world.

But more importantly the president represents all of the American people.

When you have a president like the current occupant of the White House, who only wants to have fairness and consideration for a small minority of people in the country, - - then in a democracy, with the kind of Constitution that we have, you're going to have all kinds of difficulties.

And the president sets the pace for the political environment of the nation. If she or he is a viable president then, he or she also sets a social tone that is compatible with American traditions and the US Constitution.

In my lifetime I've seen every president, even Nixon at times, perform in public and with public statements  in a way which is positive and uplifting to the American people.

It may seem silly and juvenile, but the American people look up to the President of the United States for guidance on social issues.

And there you have it.

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This is not a simple one.  Although some here will try to make it one.  

Sanders and her party had ordered and part of their order was already on the table.  Then the owner had a quite conversation with Sanders and Sanders agreed to leave.  They tried to pay the bill, but the owner declined.  At that point, I would give a plus to Sanders for behaving in a very nice manner.  The owner could have very well have explained her personal beliefs and asked Sanders to not come back.

Then the twitter posts, etc. began and situation worsened.

The problem is where do we draw the line at refusing service in a public, government regulated establishment?  If we can do it because you work for the president of the United States of America, why can we not do it because you are gay or black or Hispanic or Jewish or Catholic or Baptist or poor or white or Southern or have a Confederate flag on your tee shirt or whatever reason we choose?  Of course service was not refused here, but the owner asked Sanders and her party to leave after accepting and partially filling their orders.

We may disagree with Sanders, but she is doing her job as she sees it.  This is not the same as:  I was only following orders so do not go there.

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12 minutes ago, TheCid said:

If we can do it because you work for the president of the United States of America, why can we not do it because you are gay or black or Hispanic or Jewish or Catholic or Baptist or poor or white or Southern or have a Confederate flag on your tee shirt or whatever reason we choose? 

As you may recall, Sanders applauded the recent Supreme Court decision that many, including her, misinterpreted as advocating the right of private businesses to refuse service to gay people on religious grounds (the SCOTUS ruling actually pertained to the validity of a state government procedure involved in the case, and was not an endorsement of the baker's right to discriminate). And businesses have always maintained a right to refuse service based on wardrobe ("No shirt No Shoes No service"), and therefore they could refuse service to people with objectionable material on their person.

One of the more lamentable aspects of what has become known as Trumpism is a desire by his branch of conservatism to "stick it to the liberals", to troll them by intentionally using language and policy to not only meet their conservative ends, but to "hurt" those on the left, who they perceive as the enemy. It's not a question of winning, but of continued humiliation, pouring salt in the wound. Many Trump administration officials have said that they "feed on liberal tears". Simply look at the glee Trump supporters take here in the misery of others, or the vitriol expressed by them for the "other side". 

Now, people would do well to ignore this type of thing, to take the high ground. But not everyone can or will let all of this slide. Sanders has made a name for herself for her bullish, often rude, occasionally insulting manner during press conferences. While some may view this as strength, others will view it as the behavior of a bully, and treat her as such. I, personally, would not have throw her out of the restaurant. But I'm not sure that I can condemn someone else for doing so. 

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Not hard to see the some of the lines being drawn after reading this thread.They're so obvious.America hasn't seen anything like the incivility and hatred we're seeing today,except maybe during the Civil War,maybe not even then.Something's gotta give,and something baaad's gonna happen if Americans don't stop hating each other for nothing more than holding diff.political/social opinions...SAD!!:(

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8 minutes ago, JR33928 said:

Not hard to see the some of the lines being drawn after reading this thread.They're so obvious.America hasn't seen anything like the incivility and hatred we're seeing today,except maybe during the Civil War,maybe not even then.Something's gotta give,and something baaad's gonna happen if Americans don't stop hating each other for nothing more than holding diff.political/social opinions...SAD!!:(

Do you feel that the incivility and hatred comes more from the left/liberals/progressives/Democrats, from the right/conservative/Republicans, or is it a problem from both sides? What do you think is fueling this anger? Do you ever find yourself responding to others that you disagree with politically in an uncivil, hateful or aggressive manner? 

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6 hours ago, mr6666 said:

not sure how to title this, but open to suggestions :)

Sarah Huckabee Sanders Was Asked to Leave Restaurant Over Her Work for Trump

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/06/sarah-sanders-was-asked-to-leave-restaurant-over-trump-work.html

 

LegalMatch - Restaurants: Right to Refuse Service

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/restaurants-right-to-refuse-service.html

 

Do Restaurants and Bars Have the Right to Refuse Service?

https://culinarylore.com/food-law:do-restaurants-have-the-right-to-refuse-service/

 

Happened before in New York, judge upheld the restaurant right to refuse even to cops.

1502141123595-NOTSERVINGCOPS-1.jpeg?crop

 

Arizona says it's OK

140225150143-roccos-pizzeria-sign-story-

Edited by hamradio

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8 minutes ago, hamradio said:

LegalMatch - Restaurants: Right to Refuse Service

https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/restaurants-right-to-refuse-service.html

 

Do Restaurants and Bars Have the Right to Refuse Service?

https://culinarylore.com/food-law:do-restaurants-have-the-right-to-refuse-service/

Apparently homophobic Bakers have a right to refuse service to gay couples.

 

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2 minutes ago, Princess of Tap said:

Apparently homophobic Bakers have a right to refuse service to gay couples.

 

That is a religious freedom issue, some states can refuse service to politicians or people associated with, depends where one lives.  Was editing when you posted.

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2 minutes ago, hamradio said:

That is a religious freedom issue, some states can refuse service to politicians or people associated with, depends where one lives.  Was editing when you posted.

Religious freedom--my eye and my foot!  LMREO

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24 minutes ago, hamradio said:

Trump Supporters Say Restaurant Workers Yelled ‘Hell No!,’ Then Refused Them Service

http://www.grubstreet.com/2016/06/cook-out-workers-refuse-service-to-trump-supporters.html

14-trump-supporter-cookout.w710.h473.jpg

 I think this sort of thing  could serve as a learning and educational moment for young people who are trump supporters.

They'll actually get a better understanding of the history of the Civil Rights Movement if they're actually put in a position just as black people were in the 1950s and 60s trying to go into a restaurant or other "whites only" public facility in the Jim Crow South.

It could be their own " Blue Eyes/ Brown Eyes" experiment,  which was a life-changing experience for so many students who participated in it.

And it could make them better understand why people are so appalled at trump's racism.

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I seem to remember that the late 1960s was a time of strong views and incivility,

but we made it through anyway. We'll make it through this too. Unfortunately,

sexual orientation is not covered by federal civil rights laws while race and gender

are, so the religious bigots are allowed to discriminate against gays and not allowed

to discriminate against blacks or women.

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6 hours ago, mr6666 said:

Seth Rogen Refuses Photo with Paul Ryan, Scolds GOP Lawmaker in Front of His Kids

 

".....The actor and comedian was speaking at an event to promote brain health hosted by Mitt Romney when he was first approached by two teenage children, who asked to take a picture with him. After taking the fan photo, the two kids told Rogen that their father wanted to meet him.

"And I turned around and Paul Ryan was walking towards me," Rogen said. The two shook hands before Ryan asked for a photo with the star, and that's where things went downhill...........

http://www.newsweek.com/seth-rogen-paul-ryan-children-denies-photo-992713

:huh:

 

seth rogen has his nerve after that **** green hornet movie of his.

Edited by TCMModerator1
Edited for Language

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5 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:

seth rogen has his nerve after that **** green hornet movie of his.

Nippy-- I just saw this on YouTube. I never heard of Seth Rogen.

 That was a cute story. Apparently he's very popular.

 Were you a big fan of his before the Green Hornet movie?

  

Edited by TCMModerator1
Edited Quote for Language
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18 hours ago, mr6666 said:

???? @MarkCM07 3h3 hours ago

 
 

At least Sarah Sanders was being judged based on the content of her sh*tty character and not on her skin color, disability, gender, or sexual orientation (like that couple who wanted a wedding cake). #Sad #Restaurants4Sarah Bravo to Red Hen!

 

:huh:

I was going to bring that wedding cake issue up in response to Sarah's cries of "Bigotry" on twitter.

I mean, where was THAT cry of indignation from her when the Supreme Court backed the bakers on THAT issue?  And if she truly believes that businesses should by law reserve the right to refuse service to anyone based on WHATEVER motive, then she had NO right(or room) to complain of get into Twitter name calling. 

Man!  I can't WAIT for this administration to exit the White House and let some GROWN-UPS finally get back in there!  ;)   I honestly didn't think it at ALL possible for ANY president to make me wish that REAGAN was still in there!  :blink:

Sepiatone

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