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slaytonf

Opulence on opulence: Tommy directed by Ken Russell

86 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, slaytonf said:

Definitely apostrophe.  My reference is not named.  I can name it if you want.

There, you've made me look up the meaning of apostrophe.

APOSTROPHE? 

One of my favorite FRANK ZAPPA albums!  ;)

Sepiatone 

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On 7/2/2018 at 6:44 AM, TikiSoo said:

I wonder if the "homage" to Eddie Cochran in the Tommy Overture referred to in an earlier post is the surf style drumming aspect of the song?

Keith Moon was a HUGE surf music fan and sometimes adopted that rapid style of drumming for The Who and other projects.
Moon will always be my favorite drummer (Clem Burke is my favorite living drummer) because of his seemingly "wild" style: hitting odd combinations of drums & cymbals, often off the beat. (I loathe 2/4 beat songs)

It's a testament to the band they could keep up with it. Entwistle's base was more of a grounding element than typical drum beats.
What I find funny is that Roger Daltrey was considered a "tough street kid" when The Who formed. He always struck me as a poufter-especially with those big baby eyes and curly blonde hair.

Though as you say, The Who did have special places in their heart for the music of Brian Wilson and as we've all said, Eddie Cochran I think one person not mentioned is the incredible Steve Cropper of Booker T and the MG's fame. His style of power chording was really seminal in the creation of a sound that The Who and others took to the next level in their compositions.

As for the nod to Eddie, I hopefully explained that in the post to Miss Wonderly. This whole discussion is making me wonder if Sharon Sheeley is still alive.

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It's part of my rock and roll collection along with Little Richard's autograph and my Elvis charm bracelet, and flasher button.

Whaaa? Where's your Elvis toenail clipper?

(when visiting Graceland decades ago, my goal was to find THE cheesiest Elvis item in the gift shops)
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20 hours ago, CaveGirl said:

Though as you say, The Who did have special places in their heart for the music of Brian Wilson and as we've all said, Eddie Cochran I think one person not mentioned is the incredible Steve Cropper of Booker T and the MG's fame. His style of power chording was really seminal in the creation of a sound that The Who and others took to the next level in their compositions.

 

I never considered Cropper as doing much "power chording". But coming from a time when there wasn't much "picking" being done in rock and rockabilly guitar solos, but rather "multi-note" soloing done, as by CHUCK BERRY, CARL PERKINS, JAMES BURTON and such, I'd say ALL of them, wrapped up as an amalgam, were a huge influence on Townshend's approach.  CARL Wilson's style too, I'd also say....  ;) 

KEITH RICHARDS too, was an influence in that Townshend once said that early in The Who's period of fame, they were booked into some outdoor rock'n'roll extravaganza where backstage all the bands were separated by huge canvas walls.  While walking past the space where the STONES were gathered, Pete, a huge fan of theirs, peeked in and saw Richards "limbering up" his arm by rotating it in a circular motion.  It was THEN, Pete claims, that he got the idea to try and play the guitar in that fashion! 

Sepiatone

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On 7/8/2018 at 8:22 AM, Sepiatone said:

I never considered Cropper as doing much "power chording". But coming from a time when there wasn't much "picking" being done in rock and rockabilly guitar solos, but rather "multi-note" soloing done, as by CHUCK BERRY, CARL PERKINS, JAMES BURTON and such, I'd say ALL of them, wrapped up as an amalgam, were a huge influence on Townshend's approach.  CARL Wilson's style too, I'd also say....  ;) 

KEITH RICHARDS too, was an influence in that Townshend once said that early in The Who's period of fame, they were booked into some outdoor rock'n'roll extravaganza where backstage all the bands were separated by huge canvas walls.  While walking past the space where the STONES were gathered, Pete, a huge fan of theirs, peeked in and saw Richards "limbering up" his arm by rotating it in a circular motion.  It was THEN, Pete claims, that he got the idea to try and play the guitar in that fashion! 

Sepiatone

I remember seeing Townshend say that the credit for the wind up approach was Mick, which was fun to hear, but I wonder how many people actually know this, so thanks for posting it, Sepia!

Cropper was a power chorder when he played with Duck Dunn and others, and I was lucky to be privy to a discussion with Duane Eddy of such things, but as you say everyone was probably influenced by James Burton, one of the somewhat unsung heroes of rock. Gotta give Ozzie Nelson credit not only for almost creating the rock video with Rick's songs, but in providing him with an incredible rock ensemble backing him. I just bought a cd called "Grooving with the Grim Reaper: Songs of Death, Tragedy and Misfortune, 1954-1962" which has Rick singing Billie Holiday's suicidal hit, "Gloomy Sunday". I wish Burton was backing him on this oddity! Burton also was amazing in the band that played for Elvis during his touring days. And as you say, can't forget Perkins and of course good old Chuck Berry. I think many of the British bands idolized the early rockers from the US, which is why people like Cochran and Gene Vincent were so welcome on their shores in the late 1950's in touring shows.

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On 7/8/2018 at 6:29 AM, TikiSoo said:

It's part of my rock and roll collection along with Little Richard's autograph and my Elvis charm bracelet, and flasher button.

Whaaa? Where's your Elvis toenail clipper?

(when visiting Graceland decades ago, my goal was to find THE cheesiest Elvis item in the gift shops)

Did you buy the Graceland cookbook? It has the peanut butter and banana sandwich recipe, and one might be surprised at the exact directions which make it so yummy. Mine is signed by Uncle Vester Presley, Tiki!

What exactly did you find as the "cheesiest" item and do you still have it?

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21 hours ago, CaveGirl said:

I remember seeing Townshend say that the credit for the wind up approach was Mick, which was fun to hear, but I wonder how many people actually know this, so thanks for posting it, Sepia!

Cropper was a power chorder when he played with Duck Dunn and others, and I was lucky to be privy to a discussion with Duane Eddy of such things, but as you say everyone was probably influenced by James Burton, one of the somewhat unsung heroes of rock. Gotta give Ozzie Nelson credit not only for almost creating the rock video with Rick's songs, but in providing him with an incredible rock ensemble backing him. I just bought a cd called "Grooving with the Grim Reaper: Songs of Death, Tragedy and Misfortune, 1954-1962" which has Rick singing Billie Holiday's suicidal hit, "Gloomy Sunday". I wish Burton was backing him on this oddity! Burton also was amazing in the band that played for Elvis during his touring days. And as you say, can't forget Perkins and of course good old Chuck Berry. I think many of the British bands idolized the early rockers from the US, which is why people like Cochran and Gene Vincent were so welcome on their shores in the late 1950's in touring shows.

Well, it IS no secret that early American rockers and R&B artists(and bluesmen) had a HUGE influence on the "British Invaders".  And don't forget that story CARL PERKINS once told about his first meeting with The Beatles.....

It had long known that Elvis' version of Carl's "Blue Suede Shoes" changed the original opening just a bit.  But Carl DID like Elvis's opening better enough that HE used it too.  And for so long he grew accustomed to it.  So, when upon meeting the Fab Four at his place, they decided to jam, and when Carl asked which tune they'd like to jam on, they picked "Blue Suede Shoes".  And when Carl started off( and using the ELVIS opening), they all just sat there looking uncomfortable, and when Carl asked what was wrong, it was GEORGE that sheepishly spoke up and said, "Um...well, you're playing it WRONG!"  :D  Seemed the boys learned the song from CARL'S record, and considered IT the ONLY worthwhile version!  ;)

Sepiatone

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On 7/12/2018 at 7:51 AM, Sepiatone said:

Well, it IS no secret that early American rockers and R&B artists(and bluesmen) had a HUGE influence on the "British Invaders".  And don't forget that story CARL PERKINS once told about his first meeting with The Beatles.....

It had long known that Elvis' version of Carl's "Blue Suede Shoes" changed the original opening just a bit.  But Carl DID like Elvis's opening better enough that HE used it too.  And for so long he grew accustomed to it.  So, when upon meeting the Fab Four at his place, they decided to jam, and when Carl asked which tune they'd like to jam on, they picked "Blue Suede Shoes".  And when Carl started off( and using the ELVIS opening), they all just sat there looking uncomfortable, and when Carl asked what was wrong, it was GEORGE that sheepishly spoke up and said, "Um...well, you're playing it WRONG!"  :D  Seemed the boys learned the song from CARL'S record, and considered IT the ONLY worthwhile version!  ;)

Sepiatone

Great story about Perkins and the Beatles, Sepia!

I think it is also instructive to remember how many British groups wanted to record at places in the US like Stax. Stax had many hard edge artists and backing bands like the Mar-Keys, which later morphed into Booker T. and the MG's, with the addition of Cropper and Duck Dunn. Cropper worked with people like Wilson Pickett, on songs like "In the Midnight Hour" and played a bit of a choked rhythm guitar. This style allowed Duck Dunn to insert random sparse fills, which were a bit highlighted by country flavored sounds. The oddity is that even with the black musicians in Memphis playing on soul hits, they too had been influenced by constant exposure to C&W music as youths, and then at Stax, both soul and country merged a bit. Cropper was from the Ozarks so not unfamiliar either with such songs. When groups like the MG's played in Europe with Cropper and Dunn, they were roundly applauded, and admired which could explain why so many British Invasion talents wanted to work in the studios like Muscle Shoals too, for that sound. Thanks for your astute musical thoughts, Sepia!

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10 hours ago, CaveGirl said:

The oddity is that even with the black musicians in Memphis playing on soul hits, they too had been influenced by constant exposure to C&W music as youths, and then at Stax, both soul and country merged a bit.

A continuation of the mixing of blues and western swing musicians that went on earlier in the century.  One of few ways African-Americans and whites mixed socially in apartheid south.  Clandestinely, of course.

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19 hours ago, CaveGirl said:

Great story about Perkins and the Beatles, Sepia!

I think it is also instructive to remember how many British groups wanted to record at places in the US like Stax. Stax had many hard edge artists and backing bands like the Mar-Keys, which later morphed into Booker T. and the MG's, with the addition of Cropper and Duck Dunn. Cropper worked with people like Wilson Pickett, on songs like "In the Midnight Hour" and played a bit of a choked rhythm guitar. This style allowed Duck Dunn to insert random sparse fills, which were a bit highlighted by country flavored sounds. The oddity is that even with the black musicians in Memphis playing on soul hits, they too had been influenced by constant exposure to C&W music as youths, and then at Stax, both soul and country merged a bit. Cropper was from the Ozarks so not unfamiliar either with such songs. When groups like the MG's played in Europe with Cropper and Dunn, they were roundly applauded, and admired which could explain why so many British Invasion talents wanted to work in the studios like Muscle Shoals too, for that sound. Thanks for your astute musical thoughts, Sepia!

You're quite welcome, CG.  But I have to say.....

I never much considered that what Cropper played were "power chords".  In fact, the first time I ever heard the term used was in the mid-to-late '90's, and in the context of how guitarists in DEATH METAL bands played.  Back in "the day", we guitar slingers NEVER called them that.  Not 'round my "neckka" anyway.  We just called 'em "bottom chords" as one only hit the bottom two or three strings of the guitar when playing a chord.(that might be what non-guitarists would think of as the TOP three strings.).  And maybe that WAS what Steve was doing, but since there really wasn't the WAY loud VOLUME behind it, I would hesitate to call 'em "power chords".  ;) 

Sepiatone

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5 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

You're quite welcome, CG.  But I have to say.....

I never much considered that what Cropper played were "power chords".  In fact, the first time I ever heard the term used was in the mid-to-late '90's, and in the context of how guitarists in DEATH METAL bands played.  Back in "the day", we guitar slingers NEVER called them that.  Not 'round my "neckka" anyway.  We just called 'em "bottom chords" as one only hit the bottom two or three strings of the guitar when playing a chord.(that might be what non-guitarists would think of as the TOP three strings.).  And maybe that WAS what Steve was doing, but since there really wasn't the WAY loud VOLUME behind it, I would hesitate to call 'em "power chords".  ;) 

Sepiatone

I can see that there could be a difference of opinion on such things, Sepia.
 

I'm just going by some reviews in Rolling Stone and in books about the music of Cropper, where it was noted that to the different music reviewers' and writers' minds, Cropper used "power chords". I remember this term was used in that oversize book from Rolling Stone called "The Illustrated History of Rock and Roll" by people like that Creem founder, Dave Marsh and other writers for reviews in Rolling Stone. I believe it was particulary mentioned in Cropper's influence on the music of The Who and Pete Townshend. Sorry I can't give you the page number but the book may still be in print. I had the oversized original publication which is a fabulous book. I can see your point though about there being some discrepancy in the definition of what this meant to other guitar pickers and thanks for posting.

I respect your opinion as a musician and enjoyed reading your thoughts. Gee, I wish we'd had this conversation before I met Duane Eddy once at a outdoor concert, and it would be fun to know his opinion too about this topic!

I forgot to mention, I also own some albums with titles like "Power Chords-Volume 1" released by Hip-O and other record companies which include Cropper as an artist in hits like "Ninety-Nine and a Half" which he did with Wilson Pickett.

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