CaveGirl

Rock and Roll Extravaganzas

62 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, CaveGirl said:

Oh, lordie! The bits from the Tap movie about how they got their name was hilarious. Wasn't there something about they were first called The Originals but then found out another local group was also called The Originals? You could tell they have plundered all the old stories in teen magazines about how the Stones and Beatles and other groups had first been called the Ferrymen or the High Numbers or whatever.


Hilarious!

And as I recall, they then stylized themselves as the New Originals. Perhaps around the time

of Give Me Some Money. You always read about real bands having to change their names

because there was already a band with that name.

 

Zeppelin's only top ten hit in the U.S. was Whole Lotta Love. There was the album version which

ran about five and a half minutes and a shorter version which ran two minutes less, with the

middle distorto part left out. From what I can decipher the U.S. single was the full version.

The song also incorporated parts of another song and Zep settled a suit in

1985. Ramble on.

 

 

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The members of Led Zeppelin absolutely didn't believe in singles. That was for the teenyboppers, man! And so, they never released a single in their native UK. They were unable to prevent their American distributor, Ahmet Ertegun at Atlantic Records, from putting some of their songs out as singles over the years, none of which did particularly well, despite their massive album sales, except of course for "Whole Lotta Love". They absolutely drew the line, however, when it came to "Stairway to Heaven", letting Ertegun know in no uncertain terms that one was not to be released as a single.

They also seem to have been shameless about stealing ideas from others, particularly old American blues artists, "Whole Lotta Love" swipes from "You Need Love", written by Willie Dixon and originally recorded by Muddy Waters in 1962. Since 1985, Dixon has been credited as a co-writer of the Zeppelin song. They were also recently in court over "Stairway", the guitar intro of which the band Spirit claimed swiped from their song "Taurus". I've forgotten how that case ended. I think Zep won.

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14 hours ago, CaveGirl said:

I don't think "Stairway to Heaven" was sold as a single so it has no Top 40 charting history, Jimmy.

It's from the Four Symbols album which also caused problems for Billboard since the album really had no name so it could be listed in the album sales section, hence the usage of the Four Symbols moniker.

:D 

The "four symbols" album?  Heh.  Remember, the first four Zeppelin LPs  were untitled(or otherwise eponymous)  and hence referred to according to chronology of release.  So, the LP you're referrencing is, and always HAS been known as "Zeppelin IV" And I don't recall ANY radio station having any particular problems with it.  HOUSES OF THE HOLY was the first of their LPs to have any kind of actual TITLE, but too, they weren't the only band to do such a thing.  For instance...what were the titles of CHICAGO's first 10 or so LPs?  ;)  Except the 4th, which was a live LP recorded( and titled) at CARNEGIE HALL.   In fact, I think just a few years ago( 4 actually) they put out an "album" titled "Chicago XXXIII"!  :o

And truly, you gotta remember that by even the early '70's not only Zeppelin, but MOST rock bands gave up the idea of releasing singles.  Now (and for some time) the period is referred to as "AOR"(Album Oriented Rock).  And of course, some labels wouldn't bother with singles anymore, but DID try to designate( or dictate) which tracks on the LPs were to get predominate airplay. 

Sepiatone

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My all-timers in the music industry are somewhat eclectic.  *FRANCIS ALBERT first & foremost-(P.S. He truly believed Rock N'Roll was going to be the end of civilization, no foolin') & they had to nag him to appear on his own short lived tv show around 1960 to even appear with ELVIS in that now legendary & tremendous footage! (WARNING: though he's THE MAN! His utterly & stunningly bad due to all the talents involved DUETS is one to stay clear of!!!  In it's defense his famous MAMA WILL BARK is his absolute worst. & I know lots on here despise ELVIS PRESLEY-=(l935-77) he's actually my #2 fav. singer & on stage phenomenal-(I DON'T MEAN THE 1950's & first 1/2 of the '60-'s He really found himself in '68 to the end as an almost operatic singer  BUT, *SINATRA was a better actor!  My mum was a bona-fide hippie around late '60's into the 1970 & was even at the original August of 1969 WOODSTOCK-(& not the superficial rehashes since) (TRIVIA: *Frank's own fav pure singer was Tony Bennett-(l926-)

BBut Bruce is her fav ALIVE! & although I have more then a crush-(won't get into that now)  on MADONNA (Louise Veronica) CICCONE-(l958-) it's not so much her music that turns this fan on, but watching her & I don't really mean her vids  but her epic 3hr concerts. Only thing she hasn't accomplished, acting?  Plays the guitar-(nxt to her voice she learned this one 1st), drums, dancing of course, choreographer, bongo's, the harp, yukalala-(know I spelled that 1 wrong) & even more!!!

So my 3rd all-timer in the music is *MAX STEINER-(l888-l97l) -(although *A. Newman-(l90l-70) holds the *OSCAR record for most wins (9) & *Max only & OUTRAGEOUSLY only won (3) lousy times? Look at his classic flix as proof.

4th *JOHN WILLIAMS_(l932-) & still out there doing what he loves best. He & *Spielberg seem joined at the hip (TRIVIA/FACTS: I;m positive someone here will know, he won 5 td & I think he's at nom 36 or 37???)

5th candidate *Ennio Morricone-(l928-) after yrs of being pigeonholed with those spaghetti Westerns, FINALLY took home the statuette for 2015's HATEFUL-EIGHT & made a record at age 87!

 

As for Groups, again I sound like an old guy at 53, but: Glenn Miller=-(l904-44) & his orchestra, George Gershwin's utterly magnificent RHAPSODY IN BLUE & CLAIRE DE LUNE are among my own top 3 favorite numbers.

 

Anybody here ever yet check out 1970's superb docu THE LAST WALTZ?" *Scorsese cut his teeth as editor

 

 

(MORE TRIVIA FUN FAX: Now, don't go looking iot up!  What Rock Group has easily won the most GRAMMYS??? & even better who holds the GRAMMYS all-time record with most victories???)

 

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3 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

:D 

The "four symbols" album?  Heh.  Remember, the first four Zeppelin LPs  were untitled(or otherwise eponymous)  and hence referred to according to chronology of release.  So, the LP you're referrencing is, and always HAS been known as "Zeppelin IV" And I don't recall ANY radio station having any particular problems with it.  HOUSES OF THE HOLY was the first of their LPs to have any kind of actual TITLE, but too, they weren't the only band to do such a thing.  For instance...what were the titles of CHICAGO's first 10 or so LPs?  ;)  Except the 4th, which was a live LP recorded( and titled) at CARNEGIE HALL.   In fact, I think just a few years ago( 4 actually) they put out an "album" titled "Chicago XXXIII"!  :o

And truly, you gotta remember that by even the early '70's not only Zeppelin, but MOST rock bands gave up the idea of releasing singles.  Now (and for some time) the period is referred to as "AOR"(Album Oriented Rock).  And of course, some labels wouldn't bother with singles anymore, but DID try to designate( or dictate) which tracks on the LPs were to get predominate airplay. 

Sepiatone

Perhaps I am not making my points clear, Sepia. The difference between the first three albums by Zeppelin and the fourth album, is that those albums were named, with the eponymous moniker "Led Zeppelin" right on the front cover of the album. Sure they only had the original first one and then followed with the numbers "II" and "III" but it still was a conscious choice by Zeppelin to have an official name for the album, using the band name, on the cover and as a listed album for the Billboard charts.

The album I am referencing, has not always been called "Zeppelin IV" which is a later development. On the original release of this admittedly fourth album, the band purposely chose to not only have no name of the band on the cover, but no album title either. This caused a problem for the record company, Atlantic who were against the idea to not officially title the album with either the band name or even a number, as the previous albums had been named. Billboard would list albums and the artist names for their charts, and due to at least the idea that the band members had each chosen a symbol, and there were four of them, that started being used by some ranking chart entities to call the album then, "Four Symbols". The fact that later, it started being called "Led Zeppelin IV" was just due to Atlantic records needed some title for their catalogues. To show how much Zeppelin was adamant that the album have no official name, they would not even release the master tapes to the record company till they agreed to release the album with no name on it, no liner notes, no text and not even a catalogue number on the spine.

The fact that radio stations might have had no problem with this, is because they could call anything whatever they wanted, unlike Billboard which was used to a proper delineation of an artist name and release album name for their written down charts which were published for the edification of people following such things. Of course, a disk jockey would probably just say "Here's a cut from Zep's latest album..." and no one had a problem with that.

"Houses of the Holy" not only had a title as you say, but the outer sleeve band preventing the viewing of some nudity on the cover. T'is true lots of artists have had just eponymously named albums, like "Doris Day" but they always had at least that on the cover and not a total absence of any wording or artist name, like the "Four Symbols" album. Each of the preceding three Zep albums all had the wording "Led Zeppelin" on the cover and that is what makes the fourth album different. It did stir up interest at the time for the reasons why, but later, as you say just became known as the "IV" mostly because people just have to have something to pin on something, to identify it.

And of course, it is true that album cuts which were longer than the usually required less than three minute time, were starting to be more popular with artists, and some radio formats then turned to an all album cuts style. Bob Dylan might have started a bit of this with his longer than normal songs, but it was a popular move then.


Just to make clear, I am not disputing that now, it is common to call the Four Symbols album, "Led Zeppelin IV" nor am I disputing that such a title was used somewhat later after the initial release of the album just to clarify which album it was chronologically, but that was not what was going on initially during its original release time in 1971, when there was much controversy about why it had no name, and how it could be charted for Billboard if it had no name. That was my point, that it was a master marketing move by Zeppelin and mostly Jimmy Page, who was always smart about such things and how to make Zeppelin stand out amongst its rivals in the music world.


Great discussion, thanks for participating, Sepia!

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21 hours ago, LawrenceA said:

As CaveGirl mentioned, "Stairway to Heaven" was not released as a single. In fact, that was one of Zeppelin's smarter marketing decisions. They rarely released singles, so people ended up buying more full albums.

And "Stairway to Heaven" was frequently played in the whole, since it's one of those "bathroom classics". I'm sure you've heard some variation on the theme since you worked in radio, but many AOR stations played longer songs like "Stairway to Heaven", "Kashmir", "Free Bird", "Hotel California", the live "Do You Feel Like We Do?" and "American Pie", just to name a few, because it gave the DJ enough time to go to the bathroom, eat some food, take a smoke break, whatever else needed doing. Heavy repetition helped make these songs rock radio staples. 

I believe DJs would also cart up a couple of songs for trips to the restroom.

My first gig in FM looked like this. Not as many reel machines.

SHAFFER-7000.gif

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17 hours ago, Vautrin said:

And as I recall, they then stylized themselves as the New Originals. Perhaps around the time

of Give Me Some Money. You always read about real bands having to change their names

because there was already a band with that name.

 

Zeppelin's only top ten hit in the U.S. was Whole Lotta Love. There was the album version which

ran about five and a half minutes and a shorter version which ran two minutes less, with the

middle distorto part left out. From what I can decipher the U.S. single was the full version.

The song also incorporated parts of another song and Zep settled a suit in

1985. Ramble on.

 

 

Only the most addicted rock fan could have written the script for TIST, since it morphed legendary tales from the rock annals of misbehaviour and oddities, into a whole back story for the Tapsters. Odd rock deaths as in gardening accidents, or misinterpretation of words like "Dolby" for "Doubly" can only remind one of things like Joan Baez and her massacre of some of the lines in The Band's "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down". The part about not knowing the difference between the markings for inches as opposed to feet, on the napkin is hilarious. But we feel for the Tap when they hear one of their old songs on the radio, and then the DJ says something like it should be filed under the where are they now category. Though silly and childish, the boys still kind of make you sad at the demise of their career and when we find they are big again in Japan, all ends well. Great movie and one of the funniest! The actual music was well done and the bit about Nigel showing off his guitar collection with the amp that goes to 11, just for that extra push, is legendary. 


As for Zeppelin, their appropriation of things like Robert Johnson's "Terraplane Blues" for "Trampled Under Foot" is interesting, but most Johnson fans would recognize the original in it. Too bad Johnson was long dead. You make good points about their song attribution to earlier blues records, by people like Willie Dixon and so on. I did love the theremin usage on "Whole Lotta Love" I gotta say, no matter what it was cribbed from. I bet even Clara Rockmore might have enjoyed hearing it played in person.

All this talk about Spinal Tap has just made me remember that I own the collectors set of all three articulated figures, that I hope are now so rare I can make big money on them! Of course, Michael St. Hubbins is my favorite and there truly is a thin line between stupid and clever.

www.entertainmentearth.com/product/spinal-tap-collectors-box-set/sid35003

Thanks, Vautrin!

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22 minutes ago, jimmymac71 said:

I believe DJs would also cart up a couple of songs for trips to the restroom.

My first gig in FM looked like this. Not as many reel machines.

SHAFFER-7000.gif

So cool, Jimmy! You are the Wolfman Jack of the Forum.

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1 hour ago, CaveGirl said:

Only the most addicted rock fan could have written the script for TIST, since it morphed legendary tales from the rock annals of misbehaviour and oddities, into a whole back story for the Tapsters. Odd rock deaths as in gardening accidents, or misinterpretation of words like "Dolby" for "Doubly" can only remind one of things like Joan Baez and her massacre of some of the lines in The Band's "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down". The part about not knowing the difference between the markings for inches as opposed to feet, on the napkin is hilarious. But we feel for the Tap when they hear one of their old songs on the radio, and then the DJ says something like it should be filed under the where are they now category. Though silly and childish, the boys still kind of make you sad at the demise of their career and when we find they are big again in Japan, all ends well. Great movie and one of the funniest! The actual music was well done and the bit about Nigel showing off his guitar collection with the amp that goes to 11, just for that extra push, is legendary. 


As for Zeppelin, their appropriation of things like Robert Johnson's "Terraplane Blues" for "Trampled Under Foot" is interesting, but most Johnson fans would recognize the original in it. Too bad Johnson was long dead. You make good points about their song attribution to earlier blues records, by people like Willie Dixon and so on. I did love the theremin usage on "Whole Lotta Love" I gotta say, no matter what it was cribbed from. I bet even Clara Rockmore might have enjoyed hearing it played in person.

All this talk about Spinal Tap has just made me remember that I own the collectors set of all three articulated figures, that I hope are now so rare I can make big money on them! Of course, Michael St. Hubbins is my favorite and there truly is a thin line between stupid and clever.

www.entertainmentearth.com/product/spinal-tap-collectors-box-set/sid35003

Thanks, Vautrin!

Yes, Tap is funnier if one is familiar with some rock history. Just for sheer quantity of laughs

it is one of my favorite comedies. But perhaps all joking aside, we should pay attention to the

message to listen to the flower people. Very heavy that.

I remember the band that ran across the HOTH album. Being a bit of a control freak, I would at

first take it off and put it back on after each listening. Of course it started to wear out, so I then

just left it separate from the album. 

For a brief time I was a DJ at an "underground" small wattage radio station, which technically

was illegal. They were eventually taken off the air by the FCC. 

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1 hour ago, CaveGirl said:

So cool, Jimmy! You are the Wolfman Jack of the Forum.

If you don't mind, I'd like to be the good doctor, Dr. Johnny Fever. Multiple takes were needed, as he broke the microphone holder. Now, more music and Les Nessman.

 

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13 minutes ago, jimmymac71 said:

If you don't mind, I'd like to be the good doctor, Dr. Johnny Fever. Multiple takes were needed, as he broke the microphone holder. Now, more music and Les Nessman.

 

Having seen the reruns recently on METV, I have to say he's the funniest character on the show. 

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Back to basics......

One thing I did notice in one of those old Freed movies was the appearance in ROCK AROUND THE CLOCK('56)  of a music troupe called TONY MARTINEZ AND HIS MAMBO;  Tony Martinez being also the actor who was PEPINO the farmhand in the old TV series THE REAL McCOYS ('57-'62) who until spotting him in the movie I didn't know WAS a valid music performer and he and that band of his in the movie were a for real band!

Sepiatone

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