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Det Jim McLeod

Sympathetic Characters And Someone To Root For

41 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, SansFin said:

The same is true for the Creature from the Black Lagoon and any number of other innocents who come to be seen as villains through no fault of their own.

"What, you think he should have married the girl?"

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1qPTSK9FsAb2VNpAB8Wx

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8 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

Do you ever find yourself rooting for the villain of the story?

Do you know that that was a problem for Marlon Brando when he was doing 'A Streetcar Named Desire' on the Broadway stage.

He complained to the director that the audiences kept showing they were more on the side of the brutish Stanley Kowalski than they were with Blanche Dubois.

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1 hour ago, EricJ said:

"What, you think he should have married the girl?"

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT1qPTSK9FsAb2VNpAB8Wx

Oh, man - now, that's a woman.

She makes me just wanna wrap myself completely around her.

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6 hours ago, SansFin said:

I would not say that I would root for him in any particular manner but I do find that I sympathize with Godzilla. The same is true for the Creature from the Black Lagoon and any number of other innocents who come to be seen as villains through no fault of their own.

I would agree with this.  I always feel bad for King Kong.  He was just minding his own business on Skull Island.

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2 hours ago, darkblue said:

Do you know that that was a problem for Marlon Brando when he was doing 'A Streetcar Named Desire' on the Broadway stage.

He complained to the director that the audiences kept showing they were more on the side of the brutish Stanley Kowalski than they were with Blanche Dubois.

That's interesting.  Did Vivien Leigh play Blanche Dubois on the stage as well? 

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1 hour ago, speedracer5 said:

I would agree with this.  I always feel bad for King Kong.  He was just minding his own business on Skull Island.

Yeah. He only ate the sacrifices that were given to him. Probably only once a week - on Thursdays.

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1 hour ago, speedracer5 said:

That's interesting.  Did Vivien Leigh play Blanche Dubois on the stage as well? 

No.

Jessica Tandy, I believe.

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12 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

Typically, the hero of the story is the one whom you'd root for.  Do you ever find yourself rooting for the villain of the story?

 

This is one of the reasons I like Noir. One of the definitions (and oft debated ), of noir is that often there is no clear cut "hero" or "good guy". Or films like the Godfather where you find yourself rooting for members of a criminal organization. Or a spaghetti western with two bounty killers competing with each other.

Who says there has to be a hero or good guy ? Hollywood has conditioned people to expect this. Watch international films and you don't see this requirement so often.

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29 minutes ago, GGGGerald said:

This is one of the reasons I like Noir. One of the definitions (and oft debated ), of noir is that often there is no clear cut "hero" or "good guy". Or films like the Godfather where you find yourself rooting for members of a criminal organization. Or a spaghetti western with two bounty killers competing with each other.

Who says there has to be a hero or good guy ? Hollywood has conditioned people to expect this. Watch international films and you don't see this requirement so often.

Yes. The hero vs villain dichotomy is what I said earlier.  I think through school and Hollywood (I would agree with this), that there needs to be a good guy versus bad guy.  The Production Code seemed to make sure that good prevailed.  

I like noir too because many of them really seem to push the envelope of the Production Code--though films like Gilda, for example, I feel have cop-out endings.  In many noir films, even the protagonist isn't really a "good" guy.  Often times, he's just as bad as the antagonist, it's just that he's presented under the guise of redemption.  In the noir I just watched, I Walk Alone, Burt Lancaster's character isn't really good persay.  He's an ex-con.  But he's trying to go straight and get what he's owed based on a deal made with former friend Kirk Douglas. 

In some films, where everyone is terrible, I find myself rooting for whoever seems "the coolest" or whichever character turns out to be my favorite.  

I wonder how many noir films would have turned out differently if the filmmakers were allowed to make the film they wanted to make, without interference from the Production Code? 

One of the best film noir endings is Sorry, Wrong Number.  There is no real conclusion.  Unfortunately, with an ending like this, it can really only have that strong an impact once.  Once you know it's coming, it somewhat removes some of the shock. 

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Sometimes when that's all the movie has going for it, then I love having a main character (or even supporting character) to root for... But I enjoy watching things with despicable characters as well. I am okay with watching things with no characters to root for, as long as I am able to be entertained. Human beings fascinate me, so I enjoy seeing all types of characters. 

That being said, I recently finished the first season of "Killing Eve" on Hulu, and one of the leads is a young female assassin, and I found myself liking her despite the violent and terrible things she did... So, conversely, sometimes I find myself sympathizing with "bad" characters as well. 

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13 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

I wonder how many noir films would have turned out differently if the filmmakers were allowed to make the film they wanted to make, without interference from the Production Code? 

All of 'em, probably.

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On 2/6/2019 at 10:37 AM, Det Jim McLeod said:

I often see this in reviews of films- "I hated this film because the lead character was not  sympathetic  and there was no one to root for."

Do you all feel that you need this in a film in order to like it?

Not in the least. Personally I hate people who hate films where the lead character was not sympathetic.

Sympathetic characters are often also simpering fools. No June Allyson jokes please.

 

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22 hours ago, SansFin said:

I would not say that I would root for him in any particular manner but I do find that I sympathize with Godzilla. The same is true for the Creature from the Black Lagoon and any number of other innocents who come to be seen as villains through no fault of their own.

I agree that the Creature is a sympathetic character.

Regarding his relationship with Julia Adams, however, I would have to say that he was a little socially awkward.

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16 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

That's interesting.  Did Vivien Leigh play Blanche Dubois on the stage as well? 

It was Jessica Tandy maybe?

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3 hours ago, TomJH said:

I agree that the Creature is a sympathetic character.

Regarding his relationship with Julia Adams, however, I would have to say that he was a little socially awkward.

giphy.gif

I believe that is little different from what you might expect to see in any bar near an engineering college on cheap-pitcher night.

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3 hours ago, SansFin said:

I believe that is little different from what you might expect to see in any bar near an engineering college on cheap-pitcher night.

At least he's wearing his rubber.

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