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GordonCole

What's wrong with actors nowadays?

74 posts in this topic

16 minutes ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

you sure he wasn't a barber too? or, he preferred to split short hairs huh?

Tonsorial splendor was his short suit, but gramps looked nothing like Perry Como being around 6'2", similar to Flynn's stature.

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7 minutes ago, Dargo said:

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"Me like splitting hairs too! But me ESPECIALLY like rabbits."

Taz was my favorite cartoon character so thanx!

As Taz might say "Does it count as saving people when one just refrains from killing them?"

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19 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

It sounds like you're an admirer of method acting.  (which I have nothing against, per se.)

Very interesting analysis.

Maybe you are right. Thanx for the insight.

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19 hours ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

Television, too: when Jerry Seinfeld (at the time just a stand-up comedian) set out to embark upon his TV show --when he was forming his ideas about how he wanted to do it--it occurred to him to study up on the production history of all his favorite sitcoms. What he found, left him awestruck. I forget what interview this was (after his own run had concluded), but he offering fascinating details about the Dick Van Dyke Show.

The schedule and the amount of shows per season, the way the series was structured; the pace; the demands on the writers, awed him. He always speaks of these factoids in very humble tones, and for good reason.

As much as he enjoyed his own success, he knew he wasn't gonna accomplish a smidgen of what Carl Reiner did during his own heyday. This interview took place after all the hoopla for his own success, had receded. He was reminiscing about how he started out. But when all was said and done, he wasn't ashamed to admit he had stood on the shoulders of giants.

Btw here Sarge, and regarding this post of yours here...

Sure, The Dick Van Dyke Show is right up there with some of the best sitcoms ever to be broadcast, and is probably tops on my list in this regard too. However, I feel your use here of Jerry Seinfeld's opinion as to the relative "quality" of various sitcoms over the years as a means to argue your apparent point about the entertainment which has come before in earlier times being somehow "superior" to that which came later, MIGHT be as off-the-mark and irreverent as you earlier claimed my use of that "George Raft" reference was.

And I say this because while, and as I said above, my love of TDVDS is second to none, I don't recall that many pieces of dialogue, if any, from that show which would ultimately become part of the general lexicon, and as would many a word or phrase uttered by the characters in Seinfeld's own sitcom. You know, such as "Soup Nazi", "Festivus", "Yadda, yadda, yadda" and many more.

(...and I would think, and although I would now guess your reply to this will be something along the lines that I am once again taking a "quantitative" approach instead of a "qualitative" one to argue my case here, I still think ONE way, but of course not the ONLY way, to "measure" the relative worth and sometimes even the "quality" of something might be to take into account how much and how often the general public has embraced some cultural touchstone once it is presented to them)

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32 minutes ago, GordonCole said:

Taz was my favorite cartoon character so thanx!

As Taz might say "Does it count as saving people when one just refrains from killing them?"

latest?cb=20110224072532

"Myeah, that's a good question, Doc. Lemme chew on that one for awhile."

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Darg, naw that theory doesn't wash. I don't have to stoop too low, or use any underhanded rabbit-punch to deflect it. I see you're treating my assertion in good faith and I reply in kind.

My answer is this: its just not a valid 'measure' of the two shows, to observe that one made in the classic era didn't 'generate catchphrases'... compared to a tv show in the digital era which did. Everything in the two timeperiods is so thoroughly different. Internet wasn't around, media hadn't yet exploded, the 1970s demographic shift hadnt even taken place. 'Youth culture' wasn't around in Carl Reiner's time.

Both shows have good comedy, that's one 'level' part of the playing field in question here. You should just take it at face value: if Seinfeld comes right out and says that pound-for-pound, his modern-era show couldn't compete with the production norms of the classic show, he's reminding us of something we all too often forget. The classic era was a powerhouse in terms of its sheer might and ability. Seinfeld's giving us a professional appraisal as an actor and producer. The industry has simply weakened over time. Not unusual, among the artistic fields!

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34 minutes ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

Darg, naw that theory doesn't wash. I don't have to stoop too low, or use any underhanded rabbit-punch to deflect it. I see you're treating my assertion in good faith and I reply in kind.

My answer is this: its just not a valid 'measure' of the two shows, to observe that one made in the classic era didn't 'generate catchphrases'... compared to a tv show in the digital era which did. Everything in the two timeperiods is so thoroughly different. Internet wasn't around, media hadn't yet exploded, the 1970s demographic shift hadnt even taken place. 'Youth culture' wasn't around in Carl Reiner's time.

Both shows have good comedy, that's one 'level' part of the playing field in question here. You should just take it at face value: if Seinfeld comes right out and says that pound-for-pound, his modern-era show couldn't compete with the production norms of the classic show, he's reminding us of something we all too often forget. The classic era was a powerhouse in terms of its sheer might and ability. Seinfeld's giving us a professional appraisal as an actor and producer. The industry has simply weakened over time. Not unusual, among the artistic fields!

 

With reference to the lines in your post I have bolded:

I would say that since "Seinfeld" was a product of the '90s, the internet, while technically it did exist by that decade, was not the means of widespread cultural communication (or miscommunication) that it is now. There was no "social media", and even email wasn't really established as a commonplace form of contact. Certainly not during the first half of "Seinfeld" 's run, anyway.  So, with respect, I think your statement about "Seinfeld" as "a tv show in the digital era" is somewhat inaccurate.

Of course, I am prejudiced, since much as I like "The Dick Van Dyke Show" whenever I've caught reruns of it, I have to say my heart belongs to "Seinfeld", as the funniest, cleverest, greatest sit com television show that ever was.

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The internet coming hard on the heels of the Seinfeld show was enough to make it talked about. Plus all the other aspects of the media revolution I mentioned (and many which I haven't). The whole phenomenon of 'late nite talk shows' for example. MTV and other cable; 24 hours per day tv programming. No comparison to the previous era.

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

Btw here Sarge, and regarding this post of yours here...

Sure, The Dick Van Dyke Show is right up there with some of the best sitcoms ever to be broadcast, and is probably tops on my list in this regard too. However, I feel your use here of Jerry Seinfeld's opinion as to the relative "quality" of various sitcoms over the years as a means to argue your apparent point about the entertainment which has come before in earlier times being somehow "superior" to that which came later, MIGHT be as off-the-mark and irreverent as you earlier claimed my use of that "George Raft" reference was.

And I say this because while, and as I said above, my love of TDVDS is second to none, I don't recall that many pieces of dialogue, if any, from that show which would ultimately become part of the general lexicon, and as would many a word or phrase uttered by the characters in Seinfeld's own sitcom. You know, such as "Soup Nazi", "Festivus", "Yadda, yadda, yadda" and many more.

(...and I would think, and although I would now guess your reply to this will be something along the lines that I am once again taking a "quantitative" approach instead of a "qualitative" one to argue my case here, I still think ONE way, but of course not the ONLY way, to "measure" the relative worth and sometimes even the "quality" of something might be to take into account how much and how often the general public has embraced some cultural touchstone once it is presented to them)

I think you have confused some remarks about Raft and other things by others, Mister Dargo with me which is not surprising being that I've been accused of being so many people, except for Attila the Hun. But no matter, I can still answer your question. I agree mostly with your critique, but remember distinctly that the reason you hear nothing on the DVDS that would become pop culture terms, was on purpose. I think it was Carl Reiner who said they purposely tried to never use topical issues or current slang so that the show would not be dated and would sell more in residuals for reruns. Hope that helps, and this may be why there was no Soup Nazi in the Walnut interplanetary episode for Dick and Laura that existed on the planet, Twilo.

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42 minutes ago, GordonCole said:

I think you have confused some remarks about Raft and other things by others, Mister Dargo with me which is not surprising being that I've been accused of being so many people, except for Attila the Hun. But no matter, I can still answer your question. I agree mostly with your critique, but remember distinctly that the reason you hear nothing on the DVDS that would become pop culture terms, was on purpose. I think it was Carl Reiner who said they purposely tried to never use topical issues or current slang so that the show would not be dated and would sell more in residuals for reruns. Hope that helps, and this may be why there was no Soup Nazi in the Walnut interplanetary episode for Dick and Laura that existed on the planet, Twilo.

Oh, right off the top of my head I can think of at least one instance in which the Van Dyke show used a THEN topical pop culture reference, and given enough time I'm sure I could cite many others, but right now I'm off to the tennis courts.

And so before I go, does the line, "You SLEPT through The Guns of Navarone?!" ring a bell to ya, sir?! ;)

(...as just one example)

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Darg, it still a dead-end you're roaming off down. First, you're returning to comparing marble-sized items (you happen to recall 'ONE instance')  when the concepts we're treating are (in comparison) the size of bowling balls. Cole Man said that in general, the two shows took different approaches. This is generally self-evident. Its a truism. It doesn't mean there was *never* a popculture witticism dropped on the DVD show. Why insist on absolutes? Its not that kind of a discussion.

Secondly, I'd ask where does your trail lead to? Would you really try to claim that the humor of the Dick Van Dyke Show was somehow less funny than the humor of the Jerry Seinfeld Show? By what measure? According to what? How could anyone even say such a thing? Both series were very popular. It's totally subjective to choose one over the other.

Therefore, its merely circumstantial evidence (when you cite 'popculture buzz' in support of a subjective claim like this. Doesn't help the case.

But really, how do any of these points --even if they were successfully carried-- somehow refute the honest, unsolicited opinion of Seinfeld himself when he generously and accurately praises the amazing production capacity of his predecessors? Do you think the guy (a modern expert in comedy) didn't understand the implication of his own remark?

 

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22 minutes ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

Secondly, I'd ask where does your trail lead to? Would you really try to claim that the humor of the Dick Van Dyke Show was somehow less funny than the humor of the Jerry Seinfeld Show? By what measure? According to what? How could anyone even say such a thing? Both series were very popular. It's totally subjective to choose one over the other.

I admit I never understand most of your post.   E.g. here you state 'by what measure' and 'according to what' (which implies there is a measure,  or at least a way to measure,  as well as a 'what'),   and then you say 'It's totally subjective'  (which implies there is no 'measure' and thus totally up to each viewer).

You ask 'how could anyone even say such a thing ?';   because that is their subjective POV since it is 'totally subjective'.

   

      

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34 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Oh, right off the top of my head I can think of at least one instance in which the Van Dyke show used a THEN topical pop culture reference, and given enough time I'm sure I could cite many others, but right now I'm off to the tennis courts.

And so before I go, does the line, "You SLEPT through The Guns of Navarone?!" ring a bell to ya, sir?! ;)

(...as just one example)

Ya got me. I did go into a stupor during The Guns of Navarone, and then it went into coma, when I saw James Darren [aka Jimmy Ercolani] come on the screen amidst all those manly actors. I kept wondering when Gidget was gonna show up to save the military forces and if Darren would be singing love songs to her in the Big Kahoona's shack. This is probably why that topical reference got lost in my brain due to PTSD.

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6 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I admit I never understand most of your post.   E.g. here you state 'by what measure' and 'according to what' (which implies there is a measure,  or at least a way to measure,  as well as a 'what'),   and then you say 'It's totally subjective'  (which implies there is no 'measure' and thus totally up to each viewer).

You ask 'how could anyone even say such a thing ?';   because that is their subjective POV since it is 'totally subjective'.

Ever heard of trolling?

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16 minutes ago, Michael Rennie said:

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What a wonderful movie! And Wilder's attention to detail by even the artwork, like using Rousseau's painting, The Sleeping Gypsy over the bed in which Miss Kubilek [sp?] was ensconced was so marvelous. Thanx, Michael Rennie. I sure hope those two ended up in a happy and long relationship. Mr. Sheldrake was a rat and a bum to Fran.

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2 hours ago, GordonCole said:

I sure hope those two ended up in a happy and long relationship. Mr. Sheldrake was a rat and a bum to Fran.

The simp got the girl and suffered for it forever after. Quite a storybook.

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Hilarious, sad, awful, and pathetic all at the same time. Scathing article in the Atlantic Monthly about how 'self-consciousness' and foppish egoism has ruined method acting; making it into a sham and a pose. It's now something you merely 'ape' in order to generate buzz about your dedication; without actually ever digging deep or following any method. So typical of this entire digital era: everything just veneer.

https://tinyurl.com/y62pa3jw

Test: ****!

 

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6 hours ago, Dargo said:

Oh, right off the top of my head I can think of at least one instance in which the Van Dyke show used a THEN topical pop culture reference, and given enough time I'm sure I could cite many others, but right now I'm off to the tennis courts.

And so before I go, does the line, "You SLEPT through The Guns of Navarone?!" ring a bell to ya, sir?! ;)

(...as just one example)

I love The Dick Van Dyke Show as well.  I do recall hearing that Carl Reiner made a concerted effort to keep his show from becoming dated.  

I think we can all agree however, that Ritchie is perhaps the worst child actor of all time.  He always YELLS HIS LINES.

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7 hours ago, GordonCole said:

What a wonderful movie! And Wilder's attention to detail by even the artwork, like using Rousseau's painting, The Sleeping Gypsy over the bed in which Miss Kubilek [sp?] was ensconced was so marvelous. Thanx, Michael Rennie. I sure hope those two ended up in a happy and long relationship. Mr. Sheldrake was a rat and a bum to Fran.

And my second favorite movie of all time.

(...after of course TBYOOL)

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Rob and Laura got a queen size bed, yadda, yadda, yadda.

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10 hours ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

Darg, it still a dead-end you're roaming off down. First, you're returning to comparing marble-sized items (you happen to recall 'ONE instance')  when the concepts we're treating are (in comparison) the size of bowling balls. Cole Man said that in general, the two shows took different approaches. This is generally self-evident. Its a truism. It doesn't mean there was *never* a popculture witticism dropped on the DVD show. Why insist on absolutes? Its not that kind of a discussion.

Secondly, I'd ask where does your trail lead to? Would you really try to claim that the humor of the Dick Van Dyke Show was somehow less funny than the humor of the Jerry Seinfeld Show? By what measure? According to what? How could anyone even say such a thing? Both series were very popular. It's totally subjective to choose one over the other.

Therefore, its merely circumstantial evidence (when you cite 'popculture buzz' in support of a subjective claim like this. Doesn't help the case.

But really, how do any of these points --even if they were successfully carried-- somehow refute the honest, unsolicited opinion of Seinfeld himself when he generously and accurately praises the amazing production capacity of his predecessors? Do you think the guy (a modern expert in comedy) didn't understand the implication of his own remark?

 

Now Sarge (and now taking a page from your very own debating playbook here), with you usually being such an insightful, articulate and intelligent individual, I have to say I'm somewhat shocked that you would take my earlier comments but THEN come to the above false conclusion which I have placed into bold lettering above!

Nope, you see sir, it would NOT be I who has attempted OR would attempt to take my earlier prefacing statements and then submit the idea that "the humor of the Dick Van Dyke Show was somehow less funny than the humor of the Jerry Seinfeld Show", but to suggest that the humor of EACH of those programs might be of equal quality and quantity.

Yep, it has all along been YOU, who in your continued efforts to posit the idea that the entertainment offered up to earlier generations has been "superior" to what has later followed, who (you) would instead attempt to then posit such a thought.

(...oh and btw...in my view, Mr. Seinfeld's comments in praise of the Van Dyke program would primarily have been made NOT to suggest that his OWN program was somehow "inferior" to the Van Dyke program, but primarily as a "tip-of-the-hat" to the the quality of that earlier program and an acknowledgement of those who have come before him...in other words, Jerry was being "graciously humble" there) 

 

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28 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

Rob and Laura got a queen size bed, yadda, yadda, yadda.

LOL

Would this be a case of the "mixed metaphor" here? ;)

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

LOL

Would this be a case of the "mixed metaphor" here? ;)

Or the mixed sitcom. I think they're both very funny, though I would likely give a slight edge

to Seinfeld maybe because it's more of this time and isn't quite as dated as The Dick Van

Dyke Show.

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