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Joan Bennett for SOTM

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2 minutes ago, kingrat said:

Cute saying, although Jessica Tandy never had the Babe phase.

Well evidently Hume Cronyn once thought so anyway! ;)

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10 hours ago, TikiSoo said:

That just sounds like how every woman was treated in Hollywood, once they turned 30 and even moreso after 40. So sad that so much revolves around a woman's looks; quick fleeting "sex appeal".

There an interesting book titled Who Built the Jail related to this topic.    As it relates to movies,  my guess is that women are more demanding (judgmental) as it relates to another woman's looks then men are.        

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13 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

As it relates to movies,  my guess is that women are more demanding (judgmental) as it relates to another woman's looks then men are.        

Maybe men & women both "judge" by appearances, but I think differently. Women tend to notice teeny tiny signs of aging like crows feet or a thin face (is she still pretty?) while men most certainly are looking at a woman's body under a microscope - like bewbs and general weight (why isn't she still as thin as a teen boy?) 

Both unrealistic, but what we expect in movies. Perfect images. But this "judge" thinks Joan Bennett aged very well, her appearance hardly changed as she aged. I think that good luck (and maybe good maintenance) absolutely helped her win roles as she got older.

Barbara Stanwyck, Shirley Jones & Sally Field are others that come to mind whose aging was acceptable by audiences for (non horror) roles into their 30's & 40's.

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On 2/16/2019 at 2:58 PM, kingrat said:

 

Joan Bennett was fortunate to work with so many fine directors whose work has held up well. I'd love to see her as SOTM, but because her films are from so many different studios, TCM would need to purchase the rights all at the same time.

It would be great, if Joan Bennett were SOTM, if TCM could negotiate with 20th Century Fox to get the fair number of movies she did at Fox and at 20th Century-Fox.

These would include the previously ME AND MY GAL (1932), with Spencer Tracy, the Anti-Nazi THE MAN I MARRIED (1940), and MAN HUNT (1941), her first with Fritz Lang.  But also the following:

THE MAN WHO BROKE THE BANK AT MONTE CARLO (1935), which I believe had the dubious distinction of having made Guinness for the longest movie title.  It is still an enjoyable comedy with Ronald Colman.

CONFIRM OR DENY (1941).  An enjoyable comedy-drama set during the London Blitz, with Joan pairing well with a breezy Don Ameche.

WILD GEESE CALLING (1941).  Joan as a saloon singer during the Yukon Gold Rush, involved with Henry Fonda.

GIRL TROUBLE (1942).  Silly if amusing late screwball comedy, with Joan and Don Ameche again partnering well, with the topic of war rationing incorporated into the scenario.  Game cast of supporting players.

MARGIN FOR ERROR (1943).  Film dealing with Nazi envoy and Jewish cop protecting him in NYC.  Based on a true incident by way of a stage play, this film was considered dated when released.  With Otto Preminger and Milton Berle.

More compelling is the backstory, where Otto Preminger, who directed the Broadway play, was brought back to the studio, 5 years after being fired by studio head Darryl Zanuck.  How all this played out would soon lead to Preminger getting to direct his first classic LAURA, the following year.

NOB HILL (1945):  Musical which was a semi-remake of the studio's two huge hits of recent years, ALEXANDER'S RAGTIME BAND (1938), and HELLO FRISCO HELLO (1943).  The basic story remained a saloon owner in San Francisco's Bowery, overlooking the true love of his stage star to dawdle with a Nob Hill socialite.  Here they are played by George Raft, Vivian Blaine, and Joan Bennett, respectively.  It added a dollop of sentimentality in the form of their studio's juvenile star of the moment, Peggy Ann Garner.  Fun hokum.

COLONEL EFFINGHAM'S RAID (1945): Comedy with Charles Coburn, retired from the Army, taking on corrupt politicians in small Southern town.  Enjoyable programmer.

FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE (1950): Somewhat strained comedy with Broadway couple Joan and Robert Cummings being helped by angels Clifton Webb and Edmund Gwenn to have them focus on leaving careers behind to have a baby.  Gigi Perreau is the unborn child hoping they'd decide to have her as their baby.

THE GUY WHO CAME BACK (1951): Drama of Paul Douglas as over the hill football star wanting to return to play.  He has marital issues, due to refusing to do anything else, and getting involved with another woman.  Soon the wife and the other woman, played by Joan Bennett and Linda Darnell, respectively, get over their mutual enmity and join forces to help him out.  

This film, would also work for a potential Linda Darnell SOTM.  This film also, as well as most of the others here, would most likely be TCM premieres, and as such, would make for a special SOTM beyond the regularly shown Joan Bennett films.

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Is anyone aware of a book that contrasts and/or parallels the movie lives and private lives of Joan and Constance Bennett?

While I do enjoy watching Constance Bennett, I think that Joan Bennett's acting style is more relaxed.

 

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14 hours ago, Arturo said:

THE GUY WHO CAME BACK (1951): Drama of Paul Douglas as over the hill (snipped) Soon the wife and the other woman, played by Joan Bennett and Linda Darnell

Paul Douglas was kind of cute as a younger man, but landing stunners Joan Bennett & Linda Darnell "past his prime"? Now there's a fantasy movie.

14 hours ago, Arturo said:

COLONEL EFFINGHAM'S RAID (1945)

I laughed out loud realizing the name "Effing-ham" is the same abbreviation we use for the f word today.

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4 hours ago, TikiSoo said:

Paul Douglas was kind of cute as a younger man, but landing stunners Joan Bennett & Linda Darnell "past his prime"? Now there's a fantasy movie.

So the focus is on the looks of the actors; that it is a fantasy for people that look attractive to be with people that aren't as attractive.   Isn't that notion part of what makes actresses have to retain their looks (and if they don't leads to little to no more romantic roles?).    I.e. Hollywood is just responding to these type of feelings as it relates to how looks impact casting.   The focus isn't on romance or love but looks.   No wonder the Douglas character was feeling so insecure in LTTW.  

           

 

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2 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

So the focus is on the looks of the actors; that it is a fantasy for people that look attractive to be with people that aren't as attractive.   Isn't that notion part of what makes actresses have to retain their looks (and if they don't leads to little to no more romantic roles?).    I.e. Hollywood is just responding to these type of feelings as it relates to how looks impact casting.   The focus isn't on romance or love but looks.   No wonder the Douglas character was feeling so insecure in LTTW.  

        

Well, once again in the case of Paul Douglas here James, I'll now reiterate what I've said a few times around here in the past.

Sure, the thought of how an actor or actress "looks" does have a lot to do with how the general audience often preconceive a certain character "should look" and who should be cast in a certain part, and be this sort of thing "right" or "wrong"-headed.

However, what also comes into play here and perhaps even more a factor in this sort of thing, and regardless how good an actor or actress is or might have the ability to stretch, would be the thought of how much said general audience has been reinforced to think of a certain actor's or actress's image which has been cultivated over many year by the previous roles they've been so good in performing in earlier films.

And so, and in the case of Paul Douglas in particular, and because in my opinion HIS movie image would become that of a guy who so often played characters who while not quite "oafish" would sometimes be a bit clumsy in social settings and a little too upfront and honest a guy to conceal any ulterior motives his character might have, and such as in the case of his character in ALTTW, I once again will NEVER understand what Billy Wilder thought he saw in him to make Douglas his first pick, before Douglas' untimely death, to play the philandering smooth-operator corporate type character of Jeff Sheldrake in The Apartment, and regardless the actor's "looks".

(...and even though Paul Douglas was indeed a very fine actor)

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33 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Well, once again in the case of Paul Douglas here James, I'll now reiterate what I've said a few times around here in the past.

Sure, the thought of how an actor or actress "looks" does have a lot to do with how the general audience often preconceive a certain character "should look" and who should be cast in a certain part, and be this sort of thing "right" or "wrong"-headed.

However, what also comes into play here and perhaps even more a factor in this sort of thing, and regardless how good an actor or actress is or might have the ability to stretch, would be the thought of how much said general audience has been reinforced to think of a certain actor's or actress's image which has been cultivated over many year by the previous roles they've been so good in performing in earlier films.

And so, and in the case of Paul Douglas in particular, and because in my opinion HIS movie image would become that of a guy who so often played characters who while not quite "oafish" would sometimes be a bit clumsy in social settings and a little too upfront and honest a guy to conceal any ulterior motives his character might have, and such as in the case of his character in ALTTW, I once again will NEVER understand what Billy Wilder thought he saw in him to make Douglas his first pick, before Douglas' untimely death, to play the philandering smooth-operator corporate type character of Jeff Sheldrake in The Apartment, and regardless the actor's "looks".

(...and even though Paul Douglas was indeed a very fine actor)

I see your point about Douglas and his somewhat 'oafish' manner:  But doesn't that make what finally happens between the two (loving each other) even more romantic?   Yea,  the beautiful women marries a man mostly because he is rich but ends up falling in love with him because of his character.    

As for The Apartment;  That character did call for a smooth-operator and in this regard Douglas wouldn't have been right for the part.    But can one say Fred MacMurray was?   I have always wondered what the young women saw in him since she appeared to be genuinely in love with the creep.   I.e.  she wasn't after a promotion or overly materialistic.    I mean Fred wasn't that handsome when this film was made.

 

    

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3 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

The focus isn't on romance or love but looks.   No wonder the Douglas character was feeling so insecure

Yup, exactly like it has been for women....forever!

Dargo's point about Douglas' persona assists the point.

But a similarly oft cast "tough guy" actor, Creighton Lon Chaney Jr could use that same intensity to cause a woman to swoon, so "persona" does help "looks".

But Linda Darnell and Joan Bennet are glamor queen types while Douglas is at best hunky & sincere overcoming any clumsy oafishness. I'll just have to see this movie!

 

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30 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I see your point about Douglas and his somewhat 'oafish' manner:  But doesn't that make what finally happens between the two (loving each other) even more romantic?   Yea,  the beautiful women marries a man mostly because he is rich but ends up falling in love with him because of his character.    

As for The Apartment;  That character did call for a smooth-operator and in this regard Douglas wouldn't have been right for the part.    But can one say Fred MacMurray was?   I have always wondered what the young women saw in him since she appeared to be genuinely in love with the creep.   I.e.  she wasn't after a promotion or overly materialistic.    I mean Fred wasn't that handsome when this film was made.

 

And here I always thought MacMurray held onto his good looks fairly late in life, James.

He was only 51 y/o at the time of The Apartment filming, and I thought he still could easily pass for a man in his mid-forties...

th?id=OIP.-Okr0Kdn2yjuHTclvOm1ogHaDt&pid

 

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3 minutes ago, Dargo said:

th?id=OIP.-Okr0Kdn2yjuHTclvOm1ogHaDt&pid

Yuk I think Fred looks like a turtle.

Funny, because I can go for this in a big way:

rex_harrison.jpg

And they're not that different.

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18 minutes ago, TikiSoo said:

Yuk I think Fred looks like a turtle.

Funny, because I can go for this in a big way:

rex_harrison.jpg

And they're not that different.

LOL

"A TURTLE"???!!!

Look here lady! Mitch McConnell may, no, make that definitely DOES, look like a freakin' turtle, but not Fred! ;)

(...and btw...taking a little more into account the idea of a man's persona here, I think you'd have been better off with Fred instead of Rex, from I've heard of their personal lives...well, unless you couldn't get over Fred reportedly being somewhat of the tightfisted and miserly sort)

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28 minutes ago, Dargo said:

And here I always thought MacMurray held onto his good looks fairly late in life, James.

He was only 51 y/o at the time of The Apartment filming, and I thought he still could easily pass for a man in his mid-forties...

th?id=OIP.-Okr0Kdn2yjuHTclvOm1ogHaDt&pid

 

I said that Fred "wasn't that handsome";   which is code for his looks alone wouldn't have been enough to seal the deal.   The gal tries to kill herself because of him.    I still don't understand what she saw in him that made her go to such a dark place.   (but I guess it had little to do with him (or any man), and more to do with what was going on inside of her).

 

 

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10 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I said that Fred "wasn't that handsome";   which is code for his looks alone wouldn't have been enough to seal the deal.   The gal tries to kill herself because of him.    I still don't understand what she saw in him that made her go to such a dark place.   (but I guess it had little to do with him (or any man), and more to do with what was going on inside of her).

 

Yeah, not a bad point here, I suppose.

And now using this bent in the conversation about the relative "attractiveness" of an actor or actress, and in an effort to get this baby back a bit on the subject of Joan Bennett...

In the film There's Always Tomorrow, Fred's character is greatly attracted to an old flame who comes back into his life played by Barbara Stanwyck. However, and even though I would say Joan Bennett who plays his wife was more attractive than Barbara, because of how Joan treats Fred by taking him for granted, he begins to find Babs more appealing and almost runs away with her.

(...and thus might be a take on that old expression: "Beauty is, as beauty does")

 

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2 hours ago, Dargo said:

Yeah, not a bad point here, I suppose.

And now using this bent in the conversation about the relative "attractiveness" of an actor or actress, and in an effort to get this baby back a bit on the subject of Joan Bennett...

In the film There's Always Tomorrow, Fred's character is greatly attracted to an old flame who comes back into his life played by Barbara Stanwyck. However, and even though I would say Joan Bennett who plays his wife was more attractive than Barbara, because of how Joan treats Fred by taking him for granted, he begins to find Babs more appealing and almost runs away with her.

(...and thus might be a take on that old expression: "Beauty is, as beauty does")

 

What you mention is one of the things I like about There's Always Tomorrow;  The two women are similar in age and attractiveness.    The typical story is a middle-aged man replacing his trusty sedan and seeking a little red corvette.    But in TAT the male character is thinking with more then just one body part.

(and gear-head,  you better appreciated how I worded this just for you!).

  

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20 hours ago, Dargo said:

And here I always thought MacMurray held onto his good looks fairly late in life, James.

He was only 51 y/o at the time of The Apartment filming, and I thought he still could easily pass for a man in his mid-forties...

th?id=OIP.-Okr0Kdn2yjuHTclvOm1ogHaDt&pid

 

Personally, I would have preferred it if Wilder had really gone against type by casting William Frawley as the rat fink business executive in The Apartment rather than Fred. Now we know that Frawley could have done the rat fink part well and, as far as being attractive to the opposite sex is concerned, just throw a rug on that dome of his.

Now don't try to tell me that Celeste Holm isn't enchanted by what she sees here. In fact she likes his hair so much she can hardly take her eyes off it.

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I can almost hear Frawley in that role now:

"HEY, gimme that key to your apartment, Baxter, or I'll fire ya. I got a sweet baby just dying to run her fingers through my curly locks."

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On 2/16/2019 at 5:58 PM, kingrat said:

Cute saying, although Jessica Tandy never had the Babe phase.

Constance Bennett had a reputation in the thirties as . . . well, not the easiest person to work with. When her films were no longer box-office magic, the people she'd met on her way up were happy to see her on her way down.

I think I've seen 17 of the films on Lawrence's list, plus There's Always Tomorrow. A rough sketch of her career: in Disraeli she's appealing, but not that much of an actress. She has learned a lot by Me and My Gal, where she's a comic delight as a platinum blonde waitress. She and Spencer Tracy make a good comic team; too bad she didn't make more comedies. She's a hoot as the selfish Amy in Little Women. Trade Winds is the film where she goes brunette in mid-film, and it's an enjoyable mix of comedy and melodrama. All four Fritz Lang films are special: she's delightful as a spirited Cockney gal in Man Hunt; gets to play an ultimate femme fatale in Scarlet Street and The Woman in the Window; and Secret Beyond the Door reverses the sexes, with Michael Redgrave as a possible "homme fatal" threatening her. The Macomber Affair (directed by Zoltan Korda) gives her the chance to play a kind of ultimate biotch. In The Reckless Moment, expertly directed by Max Ophuls, she plays a woman trying to protect her daughter from a blackmailer. (Ah, already playing mother roles.) She did a lot of stage work in the 50s and 60s, not on Broadway but in various playhouses across the country. In Douglas Sirk's There's Always Tomorrow she plays a 1950s housewife whose life revolves around her home and children, and whose lack of interest in sex drives her husband toward the arms of another woman. Dark Shadows gives her another audience in the 1960s.

Joan Bennett was fortunate to work with so many fine directors whose work has held up well. I'd love to see her as SOTM, but because her films are from so many different studios, TCM would need to purchase the rights all at the same time.

Nice comments. And, yes, Constance was difficult to work with, so that contributed to her fall, once her films started losing money. She didnt stay at the top very long. With Joan, it was a long climb, and she never reached the heights of Constance in the early 30s, but she had the longer and more noteworthy career. Most of Constance's films havent held up over the years.

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On 2/17/2019 at 5:17 PM, Arturo said:

It would be great, if Joan Bennett were SOTM, if TCM could negotiate with 20th Century Fox to get the fair number of movies she did at Fox and at 20th Century-Fox.

These would include the previously ME AND MY GAL (1932), with Spencer Tracy, the Anti-Nazi THE MAN I MARRIED (1940), and MAN HUNT (1941), her first with Fritz Lang.  But also the following:

THE MAN WHO BROKE THE BANK AT MONTE CARLO (1935), which I believe had the dubious distinction of having made Guinness for the longest movie title.  It is still an enjoyable comedy with Ronald Colman.

CONFIRM OR DENY (1941).  An enjoyable comedy-drama set during the London Blitz, with Joan pairing well with a breezy Don Ameche.

WILD GEESE CALLING (1941).  Joan as a saloon singer during the Yukon Gold Rush, involved with Henry Fonda.

GIRL TROUBLE (1942).  Silly if amusing late screwball comedy, with Joan and Don Ameche again partnering well, with the topic of war rationing incorporated into the scenario.  Game cast of supporting players.

MARGIN FOR ERROR (1943).  Film dealing with Nazi envoy and Jewish cop protecting him in NYC.  Based on a true incident by way of a stage play, this film was considered dates when released.  With Otto Preminger and Milton Berle.

More compelling is the backstory, where Otto Preminger, who directed the Broadway play, was brought back to the studio, 5 years after being fired by studio head Darryl Zanuck.  How all this played out would soon lead to Preminger getting to direct his first classic LAURA, the following year.

NOB HILL (1945):  Musical which was a semi-remake of the studio's two huge hits of recent years, ALEXANDER'S RAGTIME BAND (1938), and HELLO FRISCO HELLO (1943).  The basic story remained a saloon owner in San Francisco's Bowery, overlooking the true love of his stage star to dawdle with a Nob Hill socialite.  Here they are played by George Raft, Vivian Blaine, and Joan Bennett, respectively.  It added a dollop of sentimentality in the form of their studio's juvenile star of the moment, Peggy Ann Garner.  Fun hokum.

COLONEL EFFINGHAM'S RAID (1945): Comedy with Charles Coburn, retired from the Army, taking on corrupt politicians in small Southern town.  Enjoyable programmer.

FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE (1950): Somewhat strained comedy with Broadway couple Joan and Robert Cummings being helped by angels Clifton Webb and Edmund Gwenn to have them focus on leaving careers behind to have a baby.  Gigi Perreau is the unborn child hoping they'd decide to have her as their baby.

THE GUY WHO CAME BACK (1951): Drama of Paul Douglas as over the hill football star wanting to return to play.  He has marital issues, due to refusing to do anything else, and getting involved with another woman.  Soon the wife and the other woman, played by Joan Bennett and Linda Darnell, respectively, get over their mutual enmity and join forces to help him out.  

This film, would also work for a potential Linda Darnell SOTM.  This film also, as well as most of the others here, would most likely be TCM premieres, and as such, would make for a special SOTM beyond the regularly shown Joan Bennett films.

WOW. I didnt know Joan and Linda did a film together! Some of these Fox Films have been shown on TCM before (but rarely) so it wouldnt be a leap to get the rights to show them again. Nob Hill; Me and My Gal; Manhunt; Man I Married etc. They could get enough films for a SOTM. Is no excuse for it! I dont get your line "was considered dates when released" for Margin of Error?

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2 minutes ago, Hibi said:

WOW. I didnt know Joan and Linda did a film together! Some of these Fox Films have been shown on TCM before (but rarely) so it wouldnt be a leap to get the rights to show them again. Nob Hill; Me and My Gal; Manhunt; Man I Married etc. They could get enough films for a SOTM. Is no excuse for it! I dont get your line "was considered dates when released" for Margin of Error?

Sorry Hibi.  Guess Autocorrect incorrectly corrected "dated" to "dates", and my internal autocorrect missed that.  The film topic was considered dated when released.  I apologize for any confusion, and will edit my post.

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1 minute ago, Arturo said:

Sorry Hibi.  Guess Autocorrect incorrectly corrected "dated" to "dates", and my internal autocorrect missed that.  The film topic was considered dated when released.  I apologize for any confusion, and will edit my post.

I wasn't quite sure what you meant. I thought maybe you meant daring!

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At one time TCM posted that they were going to screen an early Joan Bennett Fox Film from 1932 directed by Raoul Walsh called WILD GIRL. Well,like other early postings it never happened. Leonard Maltin reviewed it favorably and it is certainly a film I would love to see. Another rare JB film would be Paramount's PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS from 1934 with Francis Lederer.

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Would love to see Private Worlds. A great cast. Still waiting on a TCM showing. :(

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I believe that Private Worlds has been available on YouTube or one of the sites with unauthorized copies of films.

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