VivLeighFan

People have voted to remove Lillian and Dorothy Gish's name from a college theater

127 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

Yes, it was the Directors Guild of America Lifetime Achievement Award that was the D.W. Griffith Award up until 1999, when the guild members voted to remove his name from it.

If I was a voting member of the Directors Guild,  I would have voted to change the name of the Award but only on a go forward basis.   E.g. if there are existing plaques on the wall in some building,  those don't need to be changed if they have the name Griffith on them.

 

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Just now, LawrenceA said:

There was some hubbub recently about her having sung hit versions of the songs "That's Why Darkies Were Born" and "Pickaninny Heaven". The Yankees had been using her rendition of "God Bless America" during their seventh-inning stretch, but people complained about her, so the Yankees stopped using it. Then a hockey team (Philadelphia Flyers) that had a statue of Kate Smith outside of their venue had it removed based on the controversy. It was all rather stupid and overblown.

For what's its worth, there was a Shirley Temple film in which the word "dark!es" clearly turned up in the climactic song ( no blackface in the scene ), so I wonder if Shirley would receive the same treatment. It's not a good term at all, but the scrubbing away of any trace of the people is overkill.

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14 hours ago, slaytonf said:

A novel position.  Permit me to think it a sick view of human society that its value or interest must be based on hatred and persecution.

American liberalism has been shooting for decades now for a society where there is both civil and economic parity even though no such condition has ever existed perfectly throughout the course of human history while the condition of the rich and the poor has persisted continuously throughout that same human history.

I have sincerely wondered if the democrat party could have achieved more for minorities and the poor if they had taken a more realistic approach to the solving of these problems rather than doing the easy thing which has consisted of name-calling and wholesale defamations.

 

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it is easy to defame and maybe not so easy to take a longer view incorporating a modest degree of understanding and recognizing that incendiary defamations and mocking hateful remarks which may in the end not be the best way to go.

 

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30 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

There was some hubbub recently about her having sung hit versions of the songs "That's Why Darkies Were Born" and "Pickaninny Heaven". The Yankees had been using her rendition of "God Bless America" during their seventh-inning stretch, but people complained about her, so the Yankees stopped using it. Then a hockey team (Philadelphia Flyers) that had a statue of Kate Smith outside of their venue had it removed based on the controversy. It was all rather stupid and overblown.

Poor Kate! Embarassing songs to be sure. LOL.

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32 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

Yes, it was the Directors Guild of America Lifetime Achievement Award that was the D.W. Griffith Award up until 1999, when the guild members voted to remove his name from it.

I hadn't heard that. That's too bad. I guess we aren't supposed to speak his name anymore....

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There is also the Dorothy & Lillian Gish Prize - with a diverse recipient list - and a Gish scholarship & endowment fund for arts programs & studies. The University has indicated it will continue to accept that.

Peoples' lives and legacies are often more complicated than the public considers or likes.

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1 hour ago, TheCid said:

Ironically there is another state college where probably 30-50% of the buildings are named for Confederate officers and the official spirit flags are reproductions of the flag that school's cadets carried into battle against Union forces during the war.  Nobody has mentioned changing anything there - at all?

 

Give it time. When people find out, it will be the next manufactroversy.

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I found it humorous that John Fiedler played the head of the white community association

sent out to try to get the Younger family to not move into the neighborhood. He is about

as imposing and forceful as a wet rag. Maybe Wally Cox wasn't interested.

 

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33 minutes ago, Calamity said:

There is also the Dorothy & Lillian Gish Prize - with a diverse recipient list - and a Gish scholarship & endowment fund for arts programs & studies. The University has indicated it will continue to accept that.

Peoples' lives and legacies are often more complicated than the public considers or likes.

Yet, they remove her name from the theater??? TALK ABOUT HYPOCRITICAL!!!

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26 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

I found it humorous that John Fiedler played the head of the white community association

sent out to try to get the Younger family to not move into the neighborhood. He is about

as imposing and forceful as a wet rag. Maybe Wally Cox wasn't interested.

 

What is this in reference to???

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40 minutes ago, Gershwin fan said:

Give it time. When people find out, it will be the next manufactroversy.

Oh, they know.

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How is this related to the Gish Theater?

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1 hour ago, Hibi said:

What is this in reference to???

I should have made that clearer. Someone had already posted about Raisin in the Sun.

Imagine sending "Emil Peterson" to persuade somebody to do something they don't want

to do. Fiedler did play the same role in the play. Now if you want someone who is an

expert at underhanded real estate dealings, Elliot Carlin is your man.

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Thanks for that. I don't agree at all. I'm not sure what the teaching moment is. Shaming a deceased, venerated actress for appearing in a controversial film from 100 years ago, while still using her scholarship money? A disgrace.

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1 hour ago, Hibi said:

Thanks for that. I don't agree at all. I'm not sure what the teaching moment is. Shaming a deceased, venerated actress for appearing in a controversial film from 100 years ago, while still using her scholarship money? A disgrace.

 

In this kind of kerfuffle, the paying customers usually have the advantage.  In this case, the paying party were students who pay tuition to the school and demanded the change.

This kind of thing goes waaay back.  The filmmakers of "Gone with the Wind" changed the word "n-gg-rs" to "darkies" to avoid offending some viewers.  The makers of "A Night at the Opera" (1935) had to delete scenes of Italian locations to avoid offending American viewers because the US had fought Italy in WWI.  And on and on.  These were PC incidents by today's definition too. 

These things occurred and will continue to occur when someone didn't or doesn't want to lose money.  You gotta put yourself into those people's positions.  If you run a business with a lot money at stake, would you lose sleep over changing a word, a statue, a banner, a song, etc.??  You wouldn't.  It's a no-brainer, really.

Yes, it upsets some of you.  But you are not the patrons of that school, are you?  Your indignation is worth nothing in this instance, unlike those students' indignation.

So, everybody, do what I do, just ignore it when it doesn't really concern you.  If you want to do something, go to the kind of kerfuffles that DO concern you and DO require your patronage, and vote accordingly.

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8 minutes ago, DVDPhreak said:

 

In this kind of kerfuffle, the paying customers usually have the advantage.  In this case, the paying party were students who pay tuition to the school and demanded the change.

This kind of thing goes waaay back.  The filmmakers of "Gone with the Wind" changed the word "n-gg-rs" to "darkies" to avoid offending some viewers.  The makers of "A Night at the Opera" (1935) had to delete scenes of Italian locations to avoid offending American viewers because the US had fought Italy in WWI.  And on and on.  These were PC incidents by today's definition too. 

These things occurred and will continue to occur when someone didn't or doesn't want to lose money.  You gotta put yourself into those people's positions.  If you run a business with a lot money at stake, would you lose sleep over changing a word, a statue, a banner, a song, etc.??  You wouldn't.  It's a no-brainer, really.

Yes, it upsets some of you.  But you are not the patrons of that school, are you?

So, everybody, do what I do, just ignore it when it doesn't really concern you.  If you want to do something, go to the kind of kerfuffles that DO concern you and DO require your patronage, and vote accordingly.

I agree that none of us here have any actual ties to this latest event.   But if a school I donated to did such a think I would cease my donations.    When I'm a customer of a business that does such a thing,  I cease to be a customer.

 

 

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4 hours ago, LawrenceA said:

There was some hubbub recently about her having sung hit versions of the songs "That's Why Darkies Were Born" 

I thought it was because the Headstrongs married the Armstrongs!

(Oh, and are we going to ban Groucho because nobody knew he was quoting the Smith song?)

4 hours ago, LawrenceA said:

 The Yankees had been using her rendition of "God Bless America" during their seventh-inning stretch, but people complained about her, so the Yankees stopped using it.

Did they specifically say it was the Smith association, and not the then-current George W. Bush association?

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7 hours ago, Gershwin fan said:

This is from the article btw-

A university task force issued a report last month saying the Gish name and displays about “The Birth of a Nation” contributed to an “intimidating, even hostile, educational environment.”

Jeez, I understand (but disagree) if they want to change the name but "intimidating" and "hostile" are just melodramatic. :rolleyes: 

Kids don't even know who Lillian Gish is, let alone Dorothy... So why would it be a "hostile" environment? I'm so sure the students are bullying each other over Lillian Gish. 

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7 minutes ago, NickAndNora34 said:

Kids don't even know who Lillian Gish is, let alone Dorothy... So why would it be a "hostile" environment? I'm so sure the students are bullying each other over Lillian Gish. 

Your avatar provides the answer.

 

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4 minutes ago, NickAndNora34 said:

Kids don't even know who Lillian Gish is, let alone Dorothy... So why would it be a "hostile" environment? I'm so sure the students are bullying each other over Lillian Gish. 

Universities these days are real good with buzz words and key phrases. Its always good to include words like "abusive", "hostile", "-phobic", to whatever they are protesting that particular day.

I'm kinda glad that this is happening. To show how ridiculous the whole deal is. All the problems in the world, and it bothers you that some letters were painted on a wall. This will all blow over in no time. It will be looked back upon as "these people just had too much time on their hands".

 

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Meanwhile over at Univ. of Massachusetts Boston, every time a student feels "woke" and wants to start an extra-curricular project, there's always another protest against the school's symbol of the Minuteman statue:

https://dailycollegian.com/2003/05/controversy-has-surrounded-minuteman-before/

"A white male with a gun...representative of white militias slaughtering natives in the New England area."
Uh, yeah, when there weren't any BRITISH SOLDIERS during the REVOLUTION in the area to slaughter!

(Also that the seal, "A native with a weapon" was "racist"...Uh, might want to take that up with the State house, that happens to be the State Symbol.)

And I'm not even going to bring up the woman who raised "racism" protests against Snapple Fruit Tea in the late 90's, over an etching on the label for their bottled Iced Tea, claiming that it showed "Slaves in African headdresses being brought over on boats", and that a circle-K symbol on the label represented the company's "secret connection to the K-K-K".  The company quickly countered with flimsy alibis that the circle-K was the FDA symbol for "Kosher", and that the "slaves in African headdresses" were actually American colonists dressed as Natives, seeing as the picture was actually the famous 18th-cty. painting of the Boston Tea Party...Although what the Boston Tea Party was doing on a New England company's label for iced tea was never explained.  ;)

Seriously, no wisecrack here--This is why we need a new focus on history in schools, and why Millennials have such personal issue-driven murderous contempt and paranoia of any century before the 21st:  Teach your children history, or somebody a little sloppier will.

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1 hour ago, DVDPhreak said:

The makers of "A Night at the Opera" (1935) had to delete scenes of Italian locations to avoid offending American viewers because the US had fought Italy in WWI. 

Italy and the US were on the same side in that conflict. 

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