VivLeighFan

People have voted to remove Lillian and Dorothy Gish's name from a college theater

127 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, GGGGerald said:

Universities these days are real good with buzz words and key phrases. Its always good to include words like "abusive", "hostile", "-phobic", to whatever they are protesting that particular day.

I'm kinda glad that this is happening. To show how ridiculous the whole deal is. All the problems in the world, and it bothers you that some letters were painted on a wall. This will all blow over in no time. It will be looked back upon as "these people just had too much time on their hands".

 

I just read an article about the dire financial situation for many black colleges.    That is a real problem that impact the community and here the Feds could try to find some funds to help support these institutions.  

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6 hours ago, LawrenceA said:

There was some hubbub recently about her having sung hit versions of the songs "That's Why Darkies Were Born" and "Pickaninny Heaven".

Every time there's some uproar about something offensive from the past, you just gotta wonder; is this the first time these people have ever seen/heard and old movie/song? Wow, something from 80, 90, 100 years ago sounds racist? I don't friggin' believe it...

Honestly, if we're going to clean up all of the traces of the racism that made us what we are today we're just going to have to pick up the whole country by it's roots and relocate it. That sh/t goes deep.

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16 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I just read an article about the dire financial situation for many black colleges.    That is a real problem that impact the community and here the Feds could try to find some funds to help support these institutions.  

Nah, they would rather protest a flag on a pole or, some statue in the park. Then when their beloved institution of higher learning goes under, blame everyone but, themselves.

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1 hour ago, NickAndNora34 said:

Kids don't even know who Lillian Gish is, let alone Dorothy... So why would it be a "hostile" environment? I'm so sure the students are bullying each other over Lillian Gish. 

Yeah, she looks  pretty intimidating,doesn't she?

Image result for lillian gish

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21 hours ago, LawrenceA said:

I'm also center-left usually, and I also don't like the extremes going on with either side these days, which get amplified via social media and 24/7, clickbait media. 

From what I read, the Black Student Union group at this university recently voiced objection to the campus' Gish Theater, named to honor both Dorothy and Lillian Gish, due to Lillian's starring role in The Birth of a Nation. The school trustees then voted unanimously to remove the Gish name from the theater. If I were to hazard a guess, the Student Union were probably inspired in part by the success of Spike Lee's BlacKkKlansman film, which prominently features The Birth of a Nation in the movie, with clips and discussion about it. Lee's film was widely seen, was up for several Oscars (winning Best Screenplay), and recently premiered on HBO, ensuring that even more people saw it. This, coupled with the Outrage Machine that's been in effect for the past few years in regards to public displays of racially-insensitive material and personages, led to this extreme example of the phenomenon. 

To be honest I have no problem with the idea of removing Confederate statues, plaques or other memorials to museum settings (not destroyed!) if that is what the communities choose to do. And I can't fault the sports teams for removing Kate Smith songs/statues from their games/property, as they are privately held companies and can do what they choose. The same is true for this university: if the trustees vote to do so, then that is their right. However, I can't say that I would have voted to do so.

So Lawrence, IF your guess (your text which I placed in red lettering) IS correct, then folks and all modesty aside, get ready for THE most profound explanation for this latest example of "PC gone awry" we're now experiencing with this latest little news item here!

You see, as I read Lawrence's post here, TWO old sayings came to my mind. FIRST, that old saw which says, "Don't get your 'History' from Hollywood movies!". And thus in THIS case, be they EITHER from a film director born in the second half of the 19th Century such as D.W. Griffith, NOR from a film director born in the second half of the 20th Century such as Spike Lee.

And the OTHER old saying which I believe comes into play here is that one which says, "A little bit of learning is a dangerous thing"! And which in THIS case might explain why the Black Students Union apparently NOW believes after watching Spike Lee's film that "Lillian Gish must have been a racist in order to have starred in Birth of a Nation".

And WITH the "little bit of learning" in THIS case being, well, I'll bet my damn HOUSE and ALL the cool as hell toys I have parked in my garage, that the majority, if not nearly ALL of those in the Black Students Union wouldn't have known Lillian Gish from a hole in the freakin' ground UNTIL they watched Spike Lee's movie, and let ALONE ever ACTUALLY having WATCHED any other films she ever starred in, OR knowing any OTHER damn thing about her at all, for THAT matter!

AND, it's just a DAMN shame that apparently ALL damn SEVEN of the trustees of that university have never heard OR have forgotten BOTH of those "old sayings", TOO!!! AND of course THIS being a PARTICULAR "damn shame" BECAUSE trustees of universities are USUALLY old enough to KNOW these sorts of things! These two "old sayings", that is.

(...SEE?!...I told you this was going to be "profound", now didn't I?!...I mean, C'MON now!...what could be MORE "profound" then finding two profound old sayings that most likely actually FIT the situation here, RIGHT?!...and SEE?! I CAN occasionally be more than just a smarta$$ always looking for the easy joke around here TOO, huh!!!) ;)

LOL 

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2 hours ago, Gershwin fan said:

Italy and the US were on the same side in that conflict. 

But it was cut after, during WWII.  Even Chico tried to claim his persona wasn't really Italian, for the duration.

Every time there's some uproar about something offensive from the past, you just gotta wonder; is this the first time these people have ever seen/heard and old movie/song? Wow, something from 80, 90, 100 years ago sounds racist? I don't friggin' believe it...

Well, since she sang "Pickaninny Heaven" in Hello, Everybody! (1933)--which wasn't exactly on old-film's radar before the Warner Archive days--it's possible nobody even KNEW Smith had sung the song until the Medved Golden Turkeys made a big righteous PC-dudgeon deal about it.  (It's mentioned in "Hollywood Hall of Shame", next to Liberace in "Sincerely Yours".)

Again, it's a case of the GWBush era ramming "God Bless America" down our throats during the Gulf War, and the public looking for an excuse to get rid of it by hook or crook--If you couldn't take down Bush until 2008, at least you could try to get the fat lady to stop singing.

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OH, and one more thing here, folks!

IF I don't now receive a MINIMUM of five "likes" for my previous "profound" post up there, then....

(...well then, SCREW YOU ALL!!!) 😝

LOL

;)

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50 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Again, it's a case of the GWBush era ramming "God Bless America" down our throats during the Gulf War, and the public looking for an excuse to get rid of it by hook or crook--If you couldn't take down Bush until 2008, at least you could try to get the fat lady to stop singing.

Personally, I'm gonna be sad to see that discontinued during the 7th inning stretches, Eric.

And, for the sole reason that depending upon who the "professional" singer was that would tackle it, it helped me judge how good a singer they actually were.

IF they ended it singing the final line "My home sweet home" going DOWN the octave scale instead of UP as Kate Smith did, they pretty much SUCKED as a singer in MY view!

Hell, even I can sing it going down instead of up, and I ain't no professional singer!!!

(...BUT, don't EVEN get me started on all the needless and showy coloratura every damn "professional" singer now days seems to think The Star-Spangled Banner should be sung with!) 

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2 hours ago, EricJ said:

Meanwhile over at Univ. of Massachusetts Boston, every time a student feels "woke" and wants to start an extra-curricular project, there's always another protest against the school's symbol of the Minuteman statue:

https://dailycollegian.com/2003/05/controversy-has-surrounded-minuteman-before/

"A white male with a gun...representative of white militias slaughtering natives in the New England area."
Uh, yeah, when there weren't any BRITISH SOLDIERS during the REVOLUTION in the area to slaughter!

(Also that the seal, "A native with a weapon" was "racist"...Uh, might want to take that up with the State house, that happens to be the State Symbol.)

And I'm not even going to bring up the woman who raised "racism" protests against Snapple Fruit Tea in the late 90's, over an etching on the label for their bottled Iced Tea, claiming that it showed "Slaves in African headdresses being brought over on boats", and that a circle-K symbol on the label represented the company's "secret connection to the K-K-K".  The company quickly countered with flimsy alibis that the circle-K was the FDA symbol for "Kosher", and that the "slaves in African headdresses" were actually American colonists dressed as Natives, seeing as the picture was actually the famous 18th-cty. painting of the Boston Tea Party...Although what the Boston Tea Party was doing on a New England company's label for iced tea was never explained.  ;)

Seriously, no wisecrack here--This is why we need a new focus on history in schools, and why Millennials have such personal issue-driven murderous contempt and paranoia of any century before the 21st:  Teach your children history, or somebody a little sloppier will.

Eric, sorry if this has been mentioned to you before, but did you know that your posts are seemingly "taking cuts" in front of other people's posts on the board? I don't know how you do it, but you are the only person I've seen this happen to. This post I quoted definitely wasn't on the previous page when I was reading through it earlier. People could easily overlook your posts entirely because of it, tho. Maybe some device you are using to post is causing a delay? No idea. You're probably aware of this already...

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20 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

My understanding is that the film is a favorite of Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders.    We all know all old-white-men love that film!!!

 

 

That's because old white men tend to racially generalize about "de black fo'ks", right?  After all.....

You don't catch any BLACK GUYS doing that sort of thing, eh?  :rolleyes:

Sepiatone

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9 hours ago, Dargo said:

Personally, I'm gonna be sad to see that discontinued during the 7th inning stretches, Eric.

And, for the sole reason that depending upon who the "professional" singer was that would tackle it, it helped me judge how good a singer they actually were.

IF they ended it singing the final line "My home sweet home" going DOWN the octave scale instead of UP as Kate Smith did, they pretty much SUCKED as a singer in MY view!

Hell, even I can sing it going down instead of up, and I ain't no professional singer!!!

(...BUT, don't EVEN get me started on all the needless and showy coloratura every damn "professional" singer now days seems to think The Star-Spangled Banner should be sung with!) 

Ha! A bit off topic but you reminded me of how Igor Stravinsky almost got in trouble with the Boston Police for changing the Star Spangled Banner and using a dominant chord. A rumor later emerged that he was arrested for it which is untrue.

 

 

Compared to some of the modern renditions of the Star Spangled Banner, God Bless America and other such patriotic tunes, this seems very non-controversial to me. :lol: 

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13 hours ago, NickAndNora34 said:

Kids don't even know who Lillian Gish is, let alone Dorothy... So why would it be a "hostile" environment? I'm so sure the students are bullying each other over Lillian Gish. 

Yes, I'm certain few, if any, of the protesting students have ever seen Gish in a film. They've just been informed she appeared in Birth of a Nation and that automatically disqualifies her. A compromise could've been reached by eliminating displays regarding Birth of a Nation. She appeared in many other noteworthy films......

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11 hours ago, Dargo said:

So Lawrence, IF your guess (your text which I placed in red lettering) IS correct, then folks and all modesty aside, get ready for THE most profound explanation for this latest example of "PC gone awry" we're now experiencing with this latest little news item here!

You see, as I read Lawrence's post here, TWO old sayings came to my mind. FIRST, that old saw which says, "Don't get your 'History' from Hollywood movies!". And thus in THIS case, be they EITHER from a film director born in the second half of the 19th Century such as D.W. Griffith, NOR from a film director born in the second half of the 20th Century such as Spike Lee.

And the OTHER old saying which I believe comes into play here is that one which says, "A little bit of learning is a dangerous thing"! And which in THIS case might explain why the Black Students Union apparently NOW believes after watching Spike Lee's film that "Lillian Gish must have been a racist in order to have starred in Birth of a Nation".

And WITH the "little bit of learning" in THIS case being, well, I'll bet my damn HOUSE and ALL the cool as hell toys I have parked in my garage, that the majority, if not nearly ALL of those in the Black Students Union wouldn't have known Lillian Gish from a hole in the freakin' ground UNTIL they watched Spike Lee's movie, and let ALONE ever ACTUALLY having WATCHED any other films she ever starred in, OR knowing any OTHER damn thing about her at all, for THAT matter!

AND, it's just a DAMN shame that apparently ALL damn SEVEN of the trustees of that university have never heard OR have forgotten BOTH of those "old sayings", TOO!!! AND of course THIS being a PARTICULAR "damn shame" BECAUSE trustees of universities are USUALLY old enough to KNOW these sorts of things! These two "old sayings", that is.

(...SEE?!...I told you this was going to be "profound", now didn't I?!...I mean, C'MON now!...what could be MORE "profound" then finding two profound old sayings that most likely actually FIT the situations here, RIGHT?!...and SEE?! I CAN occasionally be more than just a smarta$$ always looking for the easy joke around here TOO, huh!!!) ;)

LOL 

TOTALLY AGREE.

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We should all recall what Hitchcock said about actors;  they are just cattle.

Would anyone fault a cattle for being in a controversial film?

(ok  maybe PETA).

 

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And to continue on a bit with my earlier use of the old phrase "A little bit of learning is a dangerous thing" here...

Isn't it ALSO a "damn shame" that it seems in today's world this social trend of having just "a little bit of learning" is now becoming a dominant tread?! What with WAY too many damn people now days "learning" just a FRACTION of what they SHOULD learn and know about some issue BEFORE making their damn minds up and forming an opinion about it!

And THIS little observation of mine would encompass people from ALL the various spectrum of political thought!

Yep, it would ALSO cover those usually holding more conservative views, and such as in the case of those who have objections to the removals of Confederate "heroes" monuments and statues. What those who object to the removal of THOSE monuments and statues apparently DON'T "know" or have "a little bit of learning" about is that they were erected FAR less to honor the individual soldier, but WERE in fact erected in the post-Civil War South as MORE the thought that their "cause" was a "noble one". And which as history has shown it was DECIDEDLY NOT!!!

(...YEP ham ol' boy...THIS particular topic IS by its very nature a "political discussion", and there's enough "blame" to be laid at EVERYONE'S table when it comes to this whole "PC" crap, and the idea behind "A little bit of learning is a dangerous thing"!)

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Dargo said:

And to continue on a bit with my earlier use of the old phrase "A little bit of learning is a dangerous thing" here...

Isn't it ALSO a "damn shame" that it seems in today's world this social trend of having just "a little bit of learning" is now becoming a dominant tread?! What with WAY too many damn people now days "learning" just a FRACTION of what they SHOULD learn and know about some issue BEFORE making their damn minds up and forming an opinion about it!

And THIS little observation of mine would encompass people from ALL the various spectrum of political thought!

Yep, it would ALSO cover those usually holding more conservative views, and such as in the case of those who have objections to the removals of Confederate "heroes" monuments and statues. What those who object to the removal of THOSE monuments and statues apparently DON'T "know" or have "a little bit of learning" about is that they were erected FAR less to honor the individual soldier, but WERE in fact erected in the post-Civil War South as MORE the thought that their "cause" was a "noble one". And which as history has shown it was DECIDEDLY NOT!!!

(...YEP ham ol' boy...THIS particular topic IS by its very nature a "political discussion", and there's enough "blame" to be laid at EVERYONE'S table when it comes to this whole "PC" crap!)

 

 

I hope the wind isn't blowing hard in your area,,,  it might knock you off your soap box.   

(but don't worry,  I'd catch you,,, since what your laying down is on-target).

 

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8 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I hope the wind isn't blowing hard in your area,,,  it might knock you off your soap box.   

(but don't worry,  I'd catch you,,, since what your laying down is on-target).

 

LOL

Yep, I sure can get on a tear sometimes, can't I James.

You should hear me IN PERSON when I get this way!

I DO possess a terrific speaking voice, ya know.

(...once again, "all modesty aside") ;)

  

 

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16 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I just read an article about the dire financial situation for many black colleges.    That is a real problem that impact the community and here the Feds could try to find some funds to help support these institutions.  

I am sure the Feds are sending funds to the HBCU schools.  In addition, many (most) are state schools.  Not sure, but I would imagine most are primarily in the South and a few close by states.  They were established so blacks could go to college and not try to get into white state schools.

The irony is that the blacks wanted the right to attend white schools instead of going to black schools.  Well they got it.  Another factor is that the alumni of HBCU schools do not have the financial wherewithal to support them compared to white and even black graduates of the former white schools.

Another issue is that the financial management of many HBCU schools has not been very good.  In S.C., S.C.State University (formerly all black) recently had financial losses so dire that the state even considering closing it down altogether before coming with new administration and more money. 

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You guys have GOT to calm down about something this inconsequential.  Wait till something TRULY consequential before getting so worked up.  I'm a big silent film fan, big Gish fan, and I own about 30 of her shorts and features.  If anyone is upset, it should be me, but I'm not.  Will all Gish films, DVDs, and Blu-rays vanish from the face of the Earth?  Will people stop making discs and writing books about her and silent films?  Will TCM stop broadcasting her films?  This little kerfuffle has next to NO TANGIBLE effects towards us film fans here.

If we protest, it should be about something tangible and consequential -- such as the apparent impossibility of hoping Disney would release "Song of the South" on home video.  Yes, it has outdated and insensitive views, but we still need to see it for film history.  We can assume Disney has done next to no restoration for the film.  So this film is actually in some REAL danger of being erased from the face of the Earth, and film history.  Now, this is something that we could lodge a LEGITIMATE protest against -- not some inconsequential naming practice in some local college.

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Please dont tell us what to get upset about. If some of us want to be upset, it's our right.

I'm certain Gish's legacy is safe and will survive, but that doesn't mean I can't be irked about this decision.

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21 minutes ago, DVDPhreak said:

If we protest, it should be about something tangible and consequential -- such as the apparent impossibility of hoping Disney would release "Song of the South" on home video.  Yes, it has outdated and insensitive views, but we still need to see it for film history.  We can assume Disney has done next to no restoration for the film.  So this film is actually in some REAL danger of being erased from the face of the Earth, and film history.  Now, this is something that we could lodge a LEGITIMATE protest against -- not some inconsequential naming practice in some local college.

As was already discussed, Song of the South is widely available online, and from what I understand, the quality is fine. It may not be legal, but Disney has only itself to blame for any lost revenue.

I saw Song of the South many years ago. I thought it was awful, but I'm not the target demo for Disney fare.

Regarding your sanctimonious chastisement of people who are upset about the name change: get over your self. This is a classic movie discussion board, and if people want to discuss the issue, then that's fine. You have GOT to calm down about other people expressing their opinions on a subject. And this is coming from someone who doesn't really care about this Gish theater issue, and for many of the reasons you listed. 

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41 minutes ago, Hibi said:

Please dont tell us what to get upset about. If some of us want to be upset, it's our right.

I'm certain Gish's legacy is safe and will survive, but that doesn't mean I can't be irked about this decision.

 

Getting upset is not the answer the same way getting upset over a name in a local college isn't the answer, which I'm sure you agree.  It is the inconsequentiality of it all, as I mentioned.  It serves little purpose for the students in that college and surely it does you as well.

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54 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

As was already discussed, Song of the South is widely available online, and from what I understand, the quality is fine. It may not be legal, but Disney has only itself to blame for any lost revenue.

I saw Song of the South many years ago. I thought it was awful, but I'm not the target demo for Disney fare.

Regarding your sanctimonious chastisement of people who are upset about the name change: get over your self. This is a classic movie discussion board, and if people want to discuss the issue, then that's fine. You have GOT to calm down about other people expressing their opinions on a subject. And this is coming from someone who doesn't really care about this Gish theater issue, and for many of the reasons you listed. 

 

As I mentioned, we need film restoration done on existing film prints and negatives.  Having bootleg copies online made from decades-old VHS and laserdiscs is not the answer.  Who knows what shape the film is in right now, and who knows if Disney has done any restoration at all.

Trust me, you people need to calm down, ABOUT EVERYTHING.  I'm just pointing out what I'm seeing: getting upset over inconsequential things, getting upset over people telling you not to get upset, LOL.  That's the very definition of getting upset over everything, don't you think?  You may disagree, but I'm right.  Calling these students "outrage machine" when THIS VERY THREAD is the very demonstration of an "outrage machine" is just laughable.  Let's BE BETTER, PEOPLE.  If you think less of others, then BE BETTER YOURSELVES.

 

 

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Thinking you are right doesn't mean you are. Someone posted this news and we are reacting to it. Saying it is meaningless or inconsequential means it may be meaningless to you, but obviously it means something to other people. This is a classic movie board. We aren't censored here (for the most part) on what we want to talk about. If you aren't interested in the subject, it would be better to move on to other threads. This topic is on its 5th page, so obviously many people are interested in the subject, how minor this story may be in the swing of things is irrelevant.

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22 minutes ago, DVDPhreak said:

 

As I mentioned, we need film restoration done on existing film prints and negatives.  Having bootleg copies online made from decades-old VHS and laserdiscs is not the answer.  Who knows what shape the film is in right now, and who knows if Disney has done any restoration at all.

Trust me, you people need to calm down, ABOUT EVERYTHING.  I'm just pointing out what I'm seeing: getting upset over inconsequential things, getting upset over people telling you not to get upset, LOL.  That's the very definition of getting upset over everything, don't you think?  You may disagree, but I'm right.  Calling these students "outrage machine" when THIS VERY THREAD is the very demonstration of an "outrage machine" is just laughable.  Let's BE BETTER, PEOPLE.  If you think less of others, then BE BETTER YOURSELVES.

 

 

No one here is outraged or calling for anything to be censored or have any names changed. We're merely discussing this. Is just discussing something an "outrage machine" to you? If we want to discuss something do we need your approval now?

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