sewhite2000

Two "Younger" Men Watch Casablanca, Love It

85 posts in this topic

18 hours ago, The Keeper said:

Thought I was the only one aware of that edit Dargo. Guess who has the Director's Cut version on Blu-ray? The selling price just went through the roof.

Hope you're wearing high-top boots. Watch your step. BS everywhere.

Hey, I've been incommunicado for a while, so what are you "keeping"???

If it is Michael Rennie, drop him off some time!

Enjoying your posts, by the way.

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2 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

So, WHOM gave them the idea they're obligated to pay attention to ALL of it?   And it is similar in a way, to "classic" film appreciation in that there are a lot of people who just love certain films seemingly because(it seems) they feel they're supposed to love them, lest they're not considered true "classic" film lovers.  I get that all the time in some quarters.  In fact, I wouldn't mind getting a quarter for each time I've heard---

"How can you call yourself a "classic" film buff if you don't like.....(______) fill in a title--?"   And it's not only with movies.  I've also been told that--

I'm not a true jazz lover because I prefer DIZ over Miles;  or not a classical music lover because I don't really care much for BERLIOZ.   Elsewhere, no true blues freak because I like Albert COLLINS more than Albert KING.

BTW:  I have another nephew (one of many) who caught some old HONEYMOONERS reruns as a kid and liked 'em, and took time to watch the movie THE HUSTLER because Ralph Kramden was in it.  ;)  Now it's one of his favorite movies, and too, became a fan of early PAUL NEWMAN flicks.  He was born in 1978(you do the math).

Sepiatone

Its not about paying attention to all of it. Its virtually impossible to know which you will like and which you won't. And why bother in the first place.

You used Jackie Gleason as a way to introduce your nephew to Classic Film. That was a great idea and as you see he liked it. It takes someone like you who knows the movies well enough to know The Hustler (1961) was a good film with Gleason. You didn't suggest Gigot (1962) did you  ?

When I decided to learn about jazz, there was no one to show me anything. I just went down to the record store and bought two cassettes. Lucky for me, one was John Coltrane's greatest hits and I was sold. The other cassette was a dud. If I had bought two dud cassettes, I might never have become a jazz fan.

If you want to show young people classic film, you have to help them avoid the duds. At least at first !

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2 minutes ago, GGGGerald said:

If you want to show young people classic film, you have to help them avoid the duds. At least at first !

Yeah, Casablanca is a great introductory film. A friend of mine some years ago tried to watch Citizen Kane because so many people had told him it was the greatest film of all time, and I think maybe he'd seen one of the Sight & Sound polls when it was still No. 1. He told me, "I tried to watch it twice, and I fell asleep both times. I think it's the most boring movie I ever saw in my life. I don't know why everybody think it's so great."

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1 minute ago, sewhite2000 said:

Yeah, Casablanca is a great introductory film. A friend of mine some years ago tried to watch Citizen Kane because so many people had told him it was the greatest film of all time, and I think maybe he'd seen one of the Sight & Sound polls when it was still No. 1. He told me, "I tried to watch it twice, and I fell asleep both times. I think it's the most boring movie I ever saw in my life. I don't know why everybody think it's so great."

I recommended to a friend of mine North by Northwest (1959) because it moves fast and I know he likes intrigue. That part at the end of the wheat field scene where he takes the guy's truck. And the owner tries to run after the truck. That was so funny, it sold him right there. He ended up watching Lawrence of Arabia (1962), Gone With The Wind (1939) (we like long movies ) and is a fan of old war movies now.

I recommended to a lady I once knew Breakfast at Tiffany's (1961). She liked the film but, thought Holly did the man wrong. Other women, I use old Marilyn Monroe films because its the one actress they know and think she was pretty.

My older brother has reconnected with the old Errol Flynn swashbuckler films of his youth. Now he is back watching old films.

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2 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

I agree with you completely regarding Peter Lorre.  His character is so much fun, I wish he hadn't been killed off so early. I also agree that a scene or two between Lorre and Greenstreet would have been fantastic.  They were great together in The Maltese Falcon.  

"YOU MUST HELP ME! REEEEK!" 

I also love that SZ Sakall's appearance in this film.

My least favorite characters are probably a tie between the lady with the guitar that sings that song, and the "Bulgarian" newlywed girl who asks Rick for help. 

Yet, Speedy, that Bulgarian girl (Joy Page) helps set up one of the film's best scenes that shows cynical Rick's true sentimental heart when he lets the roulette table dealer (Marcel Dalio) know that he wants her boyfrend (Helmut Dantine) to win, thus, ruining one of Louis Renault's intended "romantic" conquests. It's a great scene, with Carl (S. Z. Sakall) smiling approvingly. This, in turn leads to one of my favourite moments in the film when Carl reports Rick's good deed to the bartender, Sasha (Leonid Kinskey) who kisses Rick on both cheeks. "Boss, you've done a beautiful thing!"

"GET AWAY FROM ME, YOU CRAZY RUSSIAN!" Rick barks at him in a moment that always gets a big chuckle out of me whenever I see the film.

And it all started with that Bulgarian girl!

One other moment in Casablanca that gives me an (unexpected) laugh is when Peter Lorre's Ugarte gets arrested, after first running to Rick and pleading with him for assistance. Rick says to him, rather practically, "Don't be foolish. You can't get away."

The French cops then immediately grab him and pull him away, Lorre getting a chance to squirm and squeal and shriek to any movie fan's delight.

Then some guy in white standing there says, "When they come for me, Rick, I hope you'll be more of a help" to which Bogie, I mean Rick, gives his pattened reply, "I stick my neck out for no one," representative of the cynical isolationalist.

But let's hold on a second here. I timed this scene and from the moment that Ugarte shrieks at Rick for help and the authorities grab him five seconds pass. FIVE SECONDS!

So what, exactly, is Rick supposed to do to help Ugarte in FIVE SECONDS? Open his jacket and slip him into his pocket? I know Ugarte's small but he's not that small!

Next time you watch this scene take note of the fact that Rick has FIVE SECONDS in which to do something for Ugarte so that when that smart azz in the white jacket speaks up again and gives his one line in the film, "When they come for me, Rick, I hope you'll be more of a help," there's only one thing to do . . .

21DO2iv.png

PITCHFORK HIM!!!

 

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1 hour ago, GGGGerald said:

My older brother has reconnected with the old Errol Flynn swashbuckler films of his youth.

Maybe I'm just a blind Flynn fan but when it come to his Captain Blood-Robin Hood-Sea Hawk-Don Juan quartet of swashbucklers made during the actor's prime years, I don't know how anyone CAN'T like them!

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22 hours ago, AndreaDoria said:

I'm not surprised the young men liked it, but I hope the thirty year old woman watches it and adds her thoughts.

Casablanca, as we know,  is a story of  a really cool, honorable man who makes a noble sacrifice in the end, "giving" the beautiful woman  he loves  to her war hero husband.  What man wouldn't want to identify with the truly admirable Rick?

What I don't get is why women like the movie so much.  Ilsa is as passive as a woman can be, allowing Rick to decide her own fate for her in Casablanca -- and it's implied that she allowed her husband's sudden appearance in Paris  to make the decision for her then, rather than  meet Rick at the train. That's apart from the fact that she now seems ready to leave her wonderful husband for Rick, which is human, but not particularly admirable.  

On a shallow note, I agree with the young men that Ingrid Bergman's "hotness," is overrated in this movie where she seems miscast opposite Bogart who looks almost frail next to her broad shouldered stature.  One reason Bogie and Bacall looked so well together is they were both super thin.

 

I don't think Ingrid Bergman is supposed to be "hot."  Her beauty is more ethereal, and in fact, I think she is photographed more beautifully in Casablanca than in any other film.  There is a purity and integrity about her, which makes her dilemma all the more compelling.  She loves her husband, partly for the values he represents, but also loves Rick.  One of the engaging aspects about Casablanca which makes it timeless is that we are presented with a woman who has slept with two men (and with one of them while she is married to the other), but there is no moral judgment against her.   This film defies the "Code" so skillfully.  I often wonder how it got past the censors (that and the scenes in which Renault is obviously obtaining papers for attractive young women in return for sexual favors).  The movie is honest about romance and sexuality without a single bedroom scene.

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5 minutes ago, TomJH said:

Maybe I'm just a blind Flynn fan but when it come to his Captain Blood-Robin Hood-Sea Hawk-Don Juan quartet of swashbucklers made during the actor's prime years, I don't know how anyone CAN'T like them!

He's always liked them, he just hadn't seen them since the 60's. My uncle has the whole Flynn collection.

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1 minute ago, GGGGerald said:

He's always liked them, he just hadn't seen them since the 60's. My uncle has the whole Flynn collection.

I grew up watching Flynn in his big films. To me he was (and is) the personification of grace, courage and romance.

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11 minutes ago, TomJH said:

Maybe I'm just a blind Flynn fan but when it come to his Captain Blood-Robin Hood-Sea Hawk-Don Juan quartet of swashbucklers made during the actor's prime years, I don't know how anyone CAN'T like them!

I think of the four, Sea Hawk is the one that holds up the least well.  I find it long and talky, and the British propaganda stuff at the end is a bit of a bore.   Plus no Basil Rathbone or Olivia deHavilland.  My brother, who has an extensive blu-ray collection, just watched it, and claims the fault of the movie is that it begins with a huge naval battle and then none of the action in the rest of the film quite competes.  Although it's better produced and more lavish than Captain Blood, I don't think it's as engaging to modern audiences.  I think The Adventures of Don Juan has a better reputation now than when it was made.  Apparently, it didn't get back all the money lavished on the production; however, Flynn's tongue and cheek way with the dialogue and the technicolor make it appealing to modern audiences.

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4 minutes ago, rosebette said:

I think of the four, Sea Hawk is the one that holds up the least well.  I find it long and talky, and the British propaganda stuff at the end is a bit of a bore.   Plus no Basil Rathbone or Olivia deHavilland.  My brother, who has an extensive blu-ray collection, just watched it, and claims the fault of the movie is that it begins with a huge naval battle and then none of the action in the rest of the film quite competes.  Although it's better produced and more lavish than Captain Blood, I don't think it's as engaging to modern audiences.  I think The Adventures of Don Juan has a better reputation now than when it was made.  Apparently, it didn't get back all the money lavished on the production; however, Flynn's tongue and cheek way with the dialogue and the technicolor make it appealing to modern audiences.

I enjoy all the films mentioned, but I find myself having re-watched The Sea Hawk the least.  I think one part that seems a bit jarring to me are the sepia scenes. 

Flora Robson was a much better Queen Elizabeth I than Bette Davis and I loved her scenes with Flynn.  I liked that Robson's portrayal was more restrained than Davis' and not so fidgety.

I do enjoy the galley scene ;) 

I love The Adventures of Robin Hood, it may be an almost perfect film.  I also enjoy The Adventures of Don Juan, perfect casting with Flynn! I also love his gorgeous costumes. 

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2 minutes ago, rosebette said:

I think of the four, Sea Hawk is the one that holds up the least well.  I find it long and talky, and the British propaganda stuff at the end is a bit of a bore.   Plus no Basil Rathbone or Olivia deHavilland.  My brother, who has an extensive blu-ray collection, just watched it, and claims the fault of the movie is that it begins with a huge naval battle and then none of the action in the rest of the film quite competes.  Although it's better produced and more lavish than Captain Blood, I don't think it's as engaging to modern audiences.  I think The Adventures of Don Juan has a better reputation now than when it was made.  Apparently, it didn't get back all the money lavished on the production; however, Flynn's tongue and cheek way with the dialogue and the technicolor make it appealing to modern audiences.

I'm a big fan of The Sea Hawk, though I acknowledge the absence of both Olivia and Basil hurts. It's a film with one of the great musical scores of the movies, I feel, by Erich Wolfgang Korngold, with one of Flynn's most graceful performances. Flynn is truly at the very peak of his career here as a performer. If you don't like him in Sea Hawk you're not likely to ever much care for him, though I could say the same thing about another half dozen performances in his career, as well.

And the scenes in the Panamanian jungles and the slave galley are as authentic and atmospheric as you could hope to see in any big budget production.Stunning black and white photography by Sol Polito, Curtiz's favourite cameraman.

Having said that, I also love Flynn's other three big swashbucklers, as well, including Captain Blood, which you prefer to Sea Hawk, rosebette. They are all grand entertainments, with Adventures of Don Juan (boasting the wittiest script) the one that is the most neglected and underrated.

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Sam's great grandson is the rapper Sam I Ain't. He recently released his second album Rick Blaine 

Don't Mean **** To Me U C on Casablanca records. 

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2 hours ago, TomJH said:

Yet, Speedy, that Bulgarian girl (Joy Page) helps set up one of the film's best scenes that shows cynical Rick's true sentimental heart when he lets the roulette table dealer (Marcel Dalio) know that he wants her boyfrend (Helmut Dantine) to win, thus, ruining one of Louis Renault's intended "romantic" conquests. It's a great scene, with Carl (S. Z. Sakall) smiling approvingly. This, in turn leads to one of my favourite moments in the film when Carl reports Rick's good deed to the bartender, Sasha (Leonid Kinskey) who kisses Rick on both cheeks. "Boss, you've done a beautiful thing!"

"GET AWAY FROM ME, YOU CRAZY RUSSIAN!" Rick barks at him in a moment that always gets a big chuckle out of me whenever I see the film.

And it all started with that Bulgarian girl!

.......

I was going to mention just this very thing to speedy after I read her earlier comment Tom, but you not only beat me to it, but also said it better than I probably could have.

(...yep, ya gotta love both Sascha's reaction to Rick's generosity, but also the way in which Bogart recites that "you crazy Russian" line)

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34 minutes ago, Dargo said:

I was going to mention just this very thing to speedy after I read her earlier comment Tom, but you not only beat me to it, but also said it better than I probably could have.

(...yep, ya gotta love both Sascha's reaction to Rick's generosity, but also the way in which Bogart recites that "you crazy Russian" line)

It's just a very funny human moment. Look at this shot below with tough guy Rick cringing as he's getting a couple of wet smacks on the cheeks from his emotional bartender.

"Get away from me, you crazy Russian" has always been one of my favourite small moments in a film chockful of them.

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And here's another one that occurs immediately afterward. The look of affection on Carl's face that dissolves under Rick's sleely glare. It's a moment that works because the reactions of the two actors to one another are perfect, while at the same time being honest reflections of their film characters (one hard, cynical and not "touchy feely," the other mushy sentimental).

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3 hours ago, TomJH said:

Maybe I'm just a blind Flynn fan but when it come to his Captain Blood-Robin Hood-Sea Hawk-Don Juan quartet of swashbucklers made during the actor's prime years, I don't know how anyone CAN'T like them!

Just watched the B&W Captain Blood a few months ago, and when Flynn and Basil Rathbone begin dueling, I was struck by just HOW MUCH of the Pirates of the Caribbean series (the first one, not the weird nonsense in the sequels) was straight out homaging Sea Hawk and Captain Blood imagery.  There was this need by the late 90's to homage the "great genre of Pirate films", or at least wonder whatever happened to them, but nobody seemed to remember any of them except for the two Flynns.

Of course, there's the old traditional belief that you can get anyone hooked on old films by showing Singin' in the Rain (it's not just a superstition, it's true, the trick is just to get them to watch anything else), but I've always tried to get newbies hooked on Rear Window, another one of the infamous Movies Millennials Haven't Heard Of--It's always so funny and cutesy in the first half, with Jimmy Stewart, and Thelma Ritter and the odd neighbors, and THEN, hehehh...  😈

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2 hours ago, Dargo said:

I was going to mention just this very thing to speedy after I read her earlier comment Tom, but you not only beat me to it, but also said it better than I probably could have.

(...yep, ya gotta love both Sascha's reaction to Rick's generosity, but also the way in which Bogart recites that "you crazy Russian" line)

I do like the scene that both you and Tom refer to, where Rick lets the Bulgarian husband win at roulette.  I just didn't think that the actress did a very good job with her scene. 

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40 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

I do like the scene that both you and Tom refer to, where Rick lets the Bulgarian husband win at roulette.  I just didn't think that the actress did a very good job with her scene. 

7858208750_ec7024191b_b.jpg

"Well, I was good enough to get Rick to let us win at roulette!"

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Yeah, gotta say I don't quite get speedy's feelings about Joy Page's performance in this film.

She has always elicited sympathy from me in how well she plays the character who cries on Rick's shoulder and asks him his thoughts about the morality of having to stoop to Renault's wants in attaining those MacGuffins.

(...ahem, I mean those Letters of Transit) ;)

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3 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Yeah, gotta say I don't quite get speedy's feelings about Joy Page's performance in this film.

She has always elicited sympathy from me in how well she plays the character who cries on Rick's shoulder and asks him his thoughts about the morality of having to stoop to Renault's wants in attaining those MacGuffins.

(...ahem, I mean those Letters of Transit) ;)

8x10-Print-Claude-Rains-Casablanca-1942-

"Stoop? Did you say stoop? I just would have wanted a little comforting from the dear child, I mean girl. Few people understand me, I'm afraid. I'm actually a very lonely man. . . . Next letter of transit case please!"

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7 minutes ago, TomJH said:

8x10-Print-Claude-Rains-Casablanca-1942-

"Stoop? Did you say stoop? I just would have wanted a little comforting from the dear child, I mean girl. Few people understand me, I'm afraid. I'm actually a very lonely man. . . . Next letter of transit case please!"

LOL

Oy VEY! Did I say "stoop"???

(...I meant "SCHTOOP" of course!)

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22 minutes ago, Dargo said:

Yeah, gotta say I don't quite get speedy's feelings about Joy Page's performance in this film.

She has always elicited sympathy from me in how well she plays the character who cries on Rick's shoulder and asks him his thoughts about the morality of having to stoop to Renault's wants in attaining those MacGuffins.

(...ahem, I mean those Letters of Transit) ;)

For me, her performance seems a bit fake or contrived, I just don't feel any sympathy toward her. I don't know. I might just be crazy.   Her performance though pales in comparison to the other performances in the film.  I thought that Madeline LeBeau's performance as Yvonne was excellent. Joy Page isn't BAD, but she very mildly makes me cringe during her scene with Bogie. 

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3 minutes ago, Dargo said:

LOL

Oy VEY! Did I say "stoop"???

(...I meant "SCHTOOP" of course!)

51koA4MP50L._SX425_.jpg

"Boy,what a day! First I got a girl who dropped me then shows up in my gin joint. Now I got a mug poking fun at my speech!"

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4 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

For me, her performance seems a bit fake or contrived. I don't know. I might just be crazy.   Her performance though pales in comparison to the other performances in the film.  I thought that Madeline LeBeau's performance as Yvonne was excellent. Joy Page isn't BAD, but she very mildly makes me cringe during her scene with Bogie. 

I think that Joy Page has a sympathetic sincerity in her scene with Rick but she's still not, perhaps, as commanding as some other actresses might have been in the role. That sincerity, though, is enough for me to give her a pass since it's a small role.

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