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Joe Gillis

Double Indemnity Query

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6 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

I originally was thinking that he was seduced by Phyllis, but then I had the same thought as the OP, in that how could Walter fall for Phyllis so easily when he seemed to be on to her from the get go. 

 

Old Yiddish maxim:

"Vinder putz ist turgenen, der noggin meshugge"  (when the d!ck gets hard, the brain gets soft) 

Remember, when Neff first sets eyes on Phyllis, she's standing on the balcony with Neff looking up that towel she's wrapped in.  ;)  

Sepiatone

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2 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

Ooh I love that description. I love good writing that refrains from being flowery.

I know that James M Cain loved Billy Wilder's ending to Double Indemnity better than his. So it'd be interesting to read the original ending.

I bought this James M Cain trilogy that contains Mildred Pierce, The Postman Always Rings Twice, and Double Indemnity. I read Mildred Pierce.  I'm looking forward to the other two.

I haven't finished Nightmare Alley, I purchased my own copy.  My husband and I are in a two-person Nightmare Alley book club, so that we can read it before Guillermo Del Toro's movie comes out. 

That passage is from Red Wind, a Chandler short story.

Speaking of which here's Chandler's cameo appearance in Double Indemnity as Fred passes him. Chandler, of course, worked on the film's screenplay.

double-indemnity-macmurray-chandler.jpg

A few years ago, by the way, I managed to snag a copy of the poster below, with Stanwyck's autograph on it.

220px-Double_indemnity.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

Old Yiddish maxim:

"Vinder putz ist turgenen, der noggin meshugge"  (when the d!ck gets hard, the brain gets soft) 

Remember, when Neff first sets eyes on Phyllis, she's standing on the balcony with Neff looking up that towel she's wrapped in.  ;)  

Sepiatone

That is hilarious.

I will go along with that as I feel that that Yiddish saying pretty much sums up most male characters' actions in the world of noir. 

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3 minutes ago, TomJH said:

That passage is from Red Wind, a Chandler short story.

Speaking of which here's Chandler's cameo appearance in Double Indemnity as Fred passes him. Chandler, of course, worked on the film's screenplay.

double-indemnity-macmurray-chandler.jpg

A few years ago, by the way, I managed to snag a copy of the poster below, with Stanwyck's autograph on it.

220px-Double_indemnity.jpg

I knew Chandler appeared in the film, but I didn't know what he looked like, so I was never able to find him.  Thanks for the screenshot! 

I'll need to look for a collection of Raymond Chandler stories. I really liked the writing in the excerpt that you posted.  I know that Chandler's experience working with Billy Wilder was not a happy one. Did Chandler write any more screenplays? Or was he "one and done" with Double Indemnity?

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8 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

I knew Chandler appeared in the film, but I didn't know what he looked like, so I was never able to find him.  Thanks for the screenshot! 

I'll need to look for a collection of Raymond Chandler stories. I really liked the writing in the excerpt that you posted.  I know that Chandler's experience working with Billy Wilder was not a happy one. Did Chandler write any more screenplays? Or was he "one and done" with Double Indemnity?

Chandler worked on the screenplay for The Blue Dahlia, suffered a writer's block while doing so and had to get drunk (he was an alcoholic) to come up with an ending. A gifted but tormented man.

Chandler hated working in Hollywood.

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4 minutes ago, TomJH said:

Chandler worked on the screenplay for The Blue Dahlia, suffered a writer's block while doing so and had to get drunk (he was an alcoholic) to come up with an ending. A gifted but tormented man.

Chandler hated working in Hollywood.

Interesting. I think The Blue Dahlia is the only Ladd/Lake film I haven't seen. It doesn't seem to air as often on TCM as their other films.

I'll assume that money was probably his main motivation to work in Hollywood.

EDIT: My library doesn't have The Blue Dahlia.  I can rent it on Amazon for $3.99. I suppose if I really need to see it and it isn't scheduled on TCM in the near future, that's a viable option.

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My favourite dialogue exchange in The Blue Dahlia is pure Chandler: it's idealized romantic, while at the same time has a bittersweet undertone.

269px-Lake-ladd-trailer.jpg

At one point Alan Ladd walks away from Veronica Lake without saying anything.

Lake: Well, don't you even say "good night?"

Ladd: It's goodbye, and it's tough to say goodbye.

Lake: Why is it? You've never seen me before tonight.

Ladd: Every guy's seen you before - somewhere. The trick is to find you.

 

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19 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

You should watch the film.  That scene is from Steve Martin's send up of noir, Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid.  

As much as I love Barbara Stanwyck, Martin is wearing the wig better than she did.

In the actual film, Double Indemnity, the two grocery store scenes are a couple of my favorite parts of the movie.

Billy Wilder confessed the wig was a big mistake.  But when he realized it, too much footage had been shot to make a change.

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Just now, filmnoirguy said:

Billy Wilder confessed the wig was a big mistake.  But when he realized it, too much footage had been shot to make a change.

I read this somewhere. I think he said that the wig made Barbara Stanwyck look like George Washington.  I think he wanted her to look cheap.  The wig definitely did the trick. Not only was it a bad wig, but it just looked terrible on Stanwyck.  And this was in black and white! I'd be fascinated to know what the wig looked like in color. 

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6 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

I read this somewhere. I think he said that the wig made Barbara Stanwyck look like George Washington.  I think he wanted her to look cheap.  The wig definitely did the trick. Not only was it a bad wig, but it just looked terrible on Stanwyck.  And this was in black and white! I'd be fascinated to know what the wig looked like in color. 

`DSC_4167.jpg

"That wig might have looked terrible on Stanwyck, but it looks great on me! Doesn't it, tall, dark and is that a gun in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"

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2 minutes ago, TomJH said:

`DSC_4167.jpg

"That wig might have looked terrible on Stanwyck, but it looks great on me! Doesn't it, tall, dark and is that a gun in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"

Steve looks great in this wig! He could have played the bride in Father of the Bride

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8 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

I read this somewhere. I think he said that the wig made Barbara Stanwyck look like George Washington.  I think he wanted her to look cheap.  The wig definitely did the trick. Not only was it a bad wig, but it just looked terrible on Stanwyck.  And this was in black and white! I'd be fascinated to know what the wig looked like in color. 

To me the wig 'works' so I don't view it as a mistake:  this is how some bored housewives in LA LA Land decide is the way to make themselves more attractive (along with cheap jewelry).      

PS:  remember the husband was cheap;  so cheap stuff and a cheap look was all she could afford on her allowance!

 

 

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Just now, jamesjazzguitar said:

To me the wig 'works' so I don't view it as a mistake:  this is how some bored housewife in LA LA Land decide is the way to make themselves more attractive (along with cheap jewelry).      

I think the wig does look awful but it doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the film.  I also agree about the ankle bracelet.  She also walks around in those little kitten heeled slippers with the big pom pom things on the top--Which I also think added to the cheapness of her character. 

I'm now trying to envision a Double Indemnity with Stanwyck donning her regular hair and trying to decide if the film would still work. 

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Just now, TomJH said:

95500f41204608b6535acb9a9835d60c.jpg

"All I know is - guys want me!"

"I'm a wild and crazy gu...irl.  Girl."

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I like all the movies taken from Cain's novels.  I first read, "The Postman Always Rings Twice,"  condensed in my family's "Saturday Evening Post"  -- or was it "Life", I'm not sure.  Anyway, it was quite educational for a ten year old girl.

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Somebody probably knows the backstory much better than me, but I vaguely remember reading somewhere MGM snatched up the rights to Postman but figured the Code would never approve a film version, not to mention Louis B. Mayer was always horrified for his studio to release any salacious material. But after Paramount got Double Indemnity past the censors, only then did MGM's property get greenlit. Something like that.

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On 10/21/2019 at 12:02 PM, Sepiatone said:

Old Yiddish maxim:

"Vinder putz ist turgenen, der noggin meshugge"  (when the d!ck gets hard, the brain gets soft) 

Remember, when Neff first sets eyes on Phyllis, she's standing on the balcony with Neff looking up that towel she's wrapped in.  ;)  

Sepiatone

Well, that's as good an explanation as any.

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On 10/21/2019 at 12:34 PM, speedracer5 said:

I read this somewhere. I think he said that the wig made Barbara Stanwyck look like George Washington.  I think he wanted her to look cheap.  The wig definitely did the trick. Not only was it a bad wig, but it just looked terrible on Stanwyck.  And this was in black and white! I'd be fascinated to know what the wig looked like in color. 

2077328?height=-1

The wig didn't really get any better, did it? On the other hand, it looks like both Freddie and Eddie G. might be wearing muted plum shade lipstick. It really brings a certain "I'm ready for a threesome, how about you?" excitement to the trio here that was missing in the film.

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16 hours ago, AndreaDoria said:

I like all the movies taken from Cain's novels.  I first read, "The Postman Always Rings Twice,"  condensed in my family's "Saturday Evening Post"  -- or was it "Life", I'm not sure.  Anyway, it was quite educational for a ten year old girl.

No doubt.  Some years back( and still in my basement somewhere) I found a "double" book containing both "Postman" and Mildred Pierce".  I always imagined it was somehow easier for the producer(s) of Mildred Pierce to leave out the storyline of Veda not doing as well as thought in her piano instruction, but the music instructor informing Mildred that her daughter had the rare quality of being a Coloratura and imploring her to pursue more vocal training.  And of course, the code at the time forced them to change the storyline where Mildred catches Veda in bed with her stepfather and not just smooching at the bar in the beach house.

Sepiatone

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11 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

No doubt.  Some years back( and still in my basement somewhere) I found a "double" book containing both "Postman" and Mildred Pierce".  I always imagined it was somehow easier for the producer(s) of Mildred Pierce to leave out the storyline of Veda not doing as well as thought in her piano instruction, but the music instructor informing Mildred that her daughter had the rare quality of being a Coloratura and imploring her to pursue more vocal training.  And of course, the code at the time forced them to change the storyline where Mildred catches Veda in bed with her stepfather and not just smooching at the bar in the beach house.

Sepiatone

The ending in the book is completely different too.  There is no murder in the book, the noir angle was added by Warner Brothers. Then of course production code made Veda have to pay for her behavior in the film.  In the book, Veda and Monty run off together.

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Speaking of Mildred Pierce (and a few have here), has anyone ever noticed in the film that Zachory Scott has two DIFFERENT death scenes in the film?

There's the film's opening, of course, in which Zach collapses to the floor after being shot and utters "Mildred." Later in the film, though, in a flashback to the same scene they re-shot it for some reason instead of just using the same scene again. You can tell because Scott's pronunciation of "Mildred" is slightly different from the earlier take.

Strange.

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13 minutes ago, TomJH said:

Speaking of Mildred Pierce (and a few have here), has anyone ever noticed in the film that Zachory Scott has two DIFFERENT death scenes in the film?

There's the film's opening, of course, in which Zach collapses to the floor after being shot and utters "Mildred." Later in the film, though, in a flashback to the same scene they re-shot it for some reason instead of just using the same scene again. You can tell because Scott's pronunciation of "Mildred" is slightly different from the earlier take.

Strange.

I've never noticed that and I've seen the movie at least a dozen times. I'll need to look out for that the next time I see it.  I wonder if it's because Ann Blyth isn't visible in the first death scene and they had to re-shoot it with her in the scene?

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16 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

I've never noticed that and I've seen the movie at least a dozen times. I'll need to look out for that the next time I see it.  I wonder if it's because Ann Blyth isn't visible in the first death scene and they had to re-shoot it with her in the scene?

If you can record the two deaths scenes to make a direct comparison. I've always been surprised that they would spend the money to film the same scene twice, especially since it winds up being an inconsistency in the film since they're slightly different.

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4 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

No doubt.  Some years back( and still in my basement somewhere) I found a "double" book containing both "Postman" and Mildred Pierce".  I always imagined it was somehow easier for the producer(s) of Mildred Pierce to leave out the storyline of Veda not doing as well as thought in her piano instruction, but the music instructor informing Mildred that her daughter had the rare quality of being a Coloratura and imploring her to pursue more vocal training.  And of course, the code at the time forced them to change the storyline where Mildred catches Veda in bed with her stepfather and not just smooching at the bar in the beach house.

Sepiatone

The mini-series version with Kate Winslet has all that plus what seemed like 25 sex scenes of Kate and whoever played Zachary Scott's part, and yes,  Veda reached astounding new levels of evil.  I thought the new version was interesting and I loved the meticulous period detail,  but it didn't have the wonderful stylish film noir  snap of the Crawford version. 

Anyone else see the Winslet version?

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