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genine

A Question Cocerning Neo-Noir; Please Forgive Me If This Is Inwrongforum

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By the way, could you help me out?

 

New film noir movies from the past 5-10 years?

I'm doing a project on film noir, and I'm researching the classic as well as new ones. Could you give me some movies?

 

And I have another question. Does neo noir always have to have gangsters in them?

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*New film noir movies from the past 5-10 years?*

 

Another to take a look at is *Brick* (2006).

 

*Does neo noir always have to have gangsters in them?*

 

As with most things, it depends on a definition, in this case, of "gangster": for example, two or more persons engaged in or plotting a criminal act vs. more than two persons engaged in or plotting a criminal act vs. more than two persons engaged in or plotting a series of criminal acts. The first, as I recall, is roughly Robert Warshow's definition from his essay on the Gangster genre; however, then that would include Stanwyck and MacMurray as "gangsters" in *Double Indemnity* and that's not the way I think of "gangsters".

 

In my view, film noir from the "classic" or "golden" era (roughly 1940-1958) did not require "gangsters", so there would seem to be no reason that so-called neo-noir requires "gangsters". But your research could lead you to a different conclusion. Good luck...and have fun.

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In my view, film noir from the "classic" or "golden" era (roughly 1940-1958) did not require "gangsters", so there would seem to be no reason that so-called neo-noir requires "gangsters".

 

I'm certainly with you on that. I don't think of gangsters with film noir, although many films

noir did have gangsters. Film noir isn't just one thing to me. It's a collection of dark things.

 

Brick is one of the first titles that jumps to mind with neo-noir in the past ten years.

You're on it. And there is a "gangster" in Brick.

 

I also consider my favorite film of the decade, No Country for Old Men, to be a neo-noir.

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genine,

I would totally agree with ChiO and Frank that even classic noirs didn't always have gangsters in them.

 

Maybe a better question would be, Were there ever any noirs that didn't involve crime? Because at heart, film noir is about exploring the darkest impulses of the human mind, and as such, it should go without saying that most of them would involve the violation of the law(s). Maybe some would involve criminals violating their own secret codes. Or even regular people who are contemplating committing a crime.

 

Obviously, there's quite a few connections between noirs and gangster films, and thus it's not surprising this section of the forums is called "Film Noir - Gangster".

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Great question--were there ever any noirs that didn't involve crime? I'm not a noir sage, but I can't can't think of any. There could have been noirs in which crime was not the centerpiece. I'm thinking of Lang's WHILE THE CITY SLEEPS, which is considered a noir even though the primary focus is on who will get the second-in-command job in the media empire.

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were there ever any noirs that didn't involve crime?

 

That's an awesome question, Finance.

 

We're defintely entering, "is it a 'film noir' or not" zone. That's always fun. Love the grey.

 

The ones that I can think of are Clash by Night and The Woman on the Beach.

Are they film noir or melodrama? Crimes of the heart.

 

It's been a while since I've seen Sweet Smell of Success. Is there a crime in that

one? There's a self-criminal act, I do know that.

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> were there ever any noirs that didn't involve crime?

>

> That's an awesome question, Finance.

 

Well, finance was just repeating my question, but thank you very much for the compliment, Frank. I appreciate it.

 

And the examples that you mention are definitely good ones, and worth considering. I see Clash by Night and The Woman on the Beach more as "crimes of the heart" stuff, as you put it, than straight noir; Sweet Smell of Success seems to me more of a melodrama. All of these movies do have noirish elements, to be sure.

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I could be remembering it wrong, but Nora Prentiss does indeed have a crime, I think: there is the false crime in which Kent Smith is tried and convicted for the murder of Dr. Talbot; the real crime is of course Dr. Talbot's medical negligence which results in a patient's death.

 

Even if you don't consider either one a "real" crime, there is a homicide investigation, i.e., the presumption and investigation of a crime.

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He is negligent in a moral sense, but he tried to save the man when he had the opportunity. He also almost kills a man on the operating table (although we don't see this), but these are not purposeful incidents. They happen because of his distraction/addiction to Nora.

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> {quote:title=Arkadin wrote:}{quote}

> He is negligent in a moral sense, but he tried to save the man when he had the opportunity. He also almost kills a man on the operating table (although we don't see this), but these are not purposeful incidents. They happen because of his distraction/addiction to Nora.

 

Well, I totally agree with you that there is no malice in his actions. It just so happens he's caught in a romantic whirlwind.

 

So, I guess a good way to answer my original question is that most noirs involve crime or criminal intent, but that there _are_ a few exceptions.

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SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS ia a great example. I've seen it mentioned as a noir on numerous occasions. All the characters are certainly noirish.

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SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS ia a great example. I've seen it mentioned as a noir on numerous occasions. All the characters are certainly noirish.

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9 hours ago, Sgt_Markoff said:

Except that 'Sweet Smell of Success' is clearly NOT a noir! :lol:

The hell it ain't

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