MissGoddess

RAMBLES Part II

6,362 posts in this topic

> {quote:title=Ollie_T wrote:}{quote}

> A quick aside... I wanted to re-nominate George Murphy for the Norma Desmond Memorial "We Have Faces" Award for his incredible, horror-filled performance out in that field in THE BORDER INCIDENT. I forget that Anthony Mann constructed two pretty incredible suspense-filled scenes at the end of this movie, and George's work is jaw-dropping. This should always be in my Must-See's List, if only because of the "in the field" and the "quicksand" scenes. Anthony Mann really knew how to create suspense and flat-out horror.

>

> And George - how can anyone HELP but underestimate his ability? He's such a nuthin' character. But this performance tops his ARNELO AFFAIR even.

 

Ugh! Ollieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! You had to bring up BORDER INCIDENT which freaked me out when I watched it yesterday! I can't watch this movie ever again...I dont' think I ever saw such violence...after what happened to George Murphy I wanted the whole movie to go up in flames, lol! Nothing after that could make up for such a horrid, horrid scene. I know movies today are MUCH worse but I dont know, I can't see things like that. It disturbed me to no end...and THEN the quicksand...maybe Anthony Mann had "issues", as they say, to depict so much sadism, ha!! YUCK.

 

I love *The Arnelo Affair.* That's more my speed. MUCH more my speed.

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Hi, Jackie!

 

> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}

>

> I absolutely love the way the movie is bookended - Flora Robson's voice-over starts the ball rolling and the whole introduction of Miles Mander, the lost traveler in the snow.....foolish, stumbling in on something he cannot fathom. I love the way the beginning and the end play. It really is exciting and scary, the ghost story being told..... the way that Heathcliffe and Isabella turn to look at the stranger, and how everything in the house is so....unkempt.....dead....

>

 

It is one of the best introductions in movies, I think. It sets the whole tone for the film, the almost paranoid atmosphere of people unused to strangers and so turned in upon themselves and their narrow world. Also, everyone takes such a grim (that word again!) and tragic outlook on everything. I think you have to mentally prepare yourself for that because, like the novel, the movie never really lightens up. Even the "bright" scenes at the Lyttons have an undercurrent.

 

 

> The cinematography - good old black and white never looked more magical.

>

 

Indeed, and that's why I think the film cries out for the kind of face scrubbing Criterion could give it.

 

> The scene where Cathy and Heathcliffe are outside the window watching the ball at the Lyttons......sigh.... I always pray that this time, it will end differently. And you are right about the music, I can hear that dance right now as I am thinking about it. Very memorable.

>

 

Me, too! And the dogs! I still find that hard to watch. It's so vicious.

 

> I won't discuss any other scenes, for fear of real spoilage, but I just wanted to jump in and say you are so in tune with this movie - the way you explain the characters and their emotions and their actions is perfect!

>

 

Oh, thank you Jackie, that's very kind of you. Maybe I just woke up in a grim mood when I wrote my replies. :D

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> The octopus is Isabella. Ralls/Heathcliff meets the octopus/Isabella because of wealth and desire to show up someone. Geraldine Fitzgerald was cast as Isabella because she looks as if she could have been sea serpent in another life.

 

LOL!!! That's too funny, Sansfin! :D:D I love it. Oh, poor Isabella/Geraldine, ha!

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Sansfin - you are wonderful.

 

Border Incident SEMI-SPOILER

 

Ollie - I've written before about *Border Incident*, how it captured me when I sat down in front of the TV one day to watch and I stayed right through to the end....

 

I completely agree about the scene you are talking about - up until that point I was saying to myself, "No, really. George Murphy? No, no, no, no". But what a brave actor he had to have been to let them take that closeup! It is horrifying because you really think he is going to come out of it. Incredible.

 

And Ricardo Montalban is super in this movie, and there is little stereotyping.

 

Wuthering SPOILS:

 

MissG - that scene with Heathcliffe in the back room breaks my heart! Again, I always wish that it would end differently, that he stays to hear Cathy's admission of love.

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Ugh! Ollieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! You had to bring up BORDER INCIDENT which freaked me out when I watched it yesterday! I can't watch this movie ever again...I dont' think I ever saw such violence...after what happened to George Murphy I wanted the whole movie to go up in flames, lol! Nothing after that could make up for such a horrid, horrid scene. I know movies today are MUCH worse but I dont know, I can't see things like that. It disturbed me to no end...and THEN the quicksand...maybe Anthony Mann had "issues", as they say, to depict so much sadism, ha!! YUCK.

 

Hey Ollie and dahlink!

 

That is sooo weird that you two bring up Border Incident, because grandmamma showed me this

 

movie and I thought it was terrible that Georgie Murphy (my twinkle toes) had to go through all that in that scene! It?s like watching Gary go through that horrid scene in They Came to Codura! Who does that?! I mean really!

 

I can imagine. I bet they made him a mental case or a navel gazing, social misfit, ha! Olivier certainly carried himself nobly when he came back, and spoke better, but I like that he did not entirely discard his roughness which was as much a part of him as it was of the crags and bluffs he lived among. Heathcliffe is to be more elemental and earthy than civilized or human.

 

Heehee! They certainly made Heathcliffe a different kind of man than in the book or the original to me anyway. I think you said it perfectly when Olivier carried himself very nobly with a more sophisticated way of speaking. And he still looks rugged with his image and the way he acts. Feinnes gave him a more scary look with too much macho-ness. Heathcliffe was still supposed to have a vulnerability in the story that Olivier portrayed perfectly when it came to his scenes with Cathy and even when he was just thinking about her. It?s like they took that characteristic away in the remake in 1992. Heathcliffe can?t be Heathcliffe without it!

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Connie and Viv - one of my favourite couples!

Dark Journey

Vivien Leigh Conrad Veidt

Did anyone notice that this romantic scene from the photo doesn't exist anymore in the film?

Vivien Leigh and Conrad Veidt

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Hi butterscotch,

 

I couldn't believe what I was seeing with Border Incident. Too much.

 

Heathcliffe is more vulnerable as Olivier plays him, yes. It's a hard role

to play without completely losing your audience's sympathy. While I can't

say I thought he was blameless (especially when he married Isabelle), I

do think he suffered enormously all his life and even the one bright thing for him,

Catherine, was taken from him. It's hard not to feel his pain. Boy, what a

downer that story is!

 

Hi Monik,

 

Thank you so much for posting a screencap of Conrad Veidt stroking Viv's

little head...what a great romantic scene. And isn't it too bad we didn't get

to see that deleted scene, I love Viv's dress!

 

Thanks for those pictures and I hope you enjoy this month's spotlight

on Vivien as much as I am. :)

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And here is a bonus: a splendid, perfect close-up of Vivien (I think here she is more beautiful than in any other film).

Vivien Leigh Conrad Veidt

The embrace...

Vivien Leigh Conrad Veidt

As far as I know, Vivien is the only co-star that Conrad ever really kissed on screen, in the talkies, at least. He never really kissed his leading ladies (I suppose he didn't like it). But here, it looks like he wanted to give Vivien a little kiss.

Vivien Leigh Conrad Veidt

 

Edited by: Monik on Sep 9, 2010 2:56 AM

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Wow! Splendid caps Monik!

 

Thanks for those - I just love Conrad Veidt and Vivien.... and I swear, your print looks ten times better than the TCM one. Vivien really does look spectacular.

 

Connie was probably too busy sleepwalking to kiss his leading ladies in other movies..... or else he was unable to, due to surgery gone wrong, or too many Nazi meetings.

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Well, I bought an extraordinary copy from England, where the film is sold on DVD. It was released this year, in February. Check it on amazon.co.uk. The version I have is 79 minutes long (2 minutes longer than the official one, because it has 2 extra-sequences). It comes from the Rohauer Collection. The quality of the picture and sound is great.

 

I found yesterday on imdb.com two excerpts from the script of the film, from scenes which no longer exist in the actual version. The first one comes from Madeleine's monologue by the end of the film, when she is arrested, and the second one comes from a romantic scene between her and the Baron, with kiss and all... I don't know if we could ever find these deleted scenes...

 

Madeleine Goddard: [Locked in her stateroom on board ship] A spy... a life I never wanted. And now it's over. Finished and done. So sleepy...

 

Baron Karl Von Marwitz: So our pretty little dressmaker is a spy! What will people say, an officer of the Kaiser like me and a woman like you, Madeline?

Madeleine Goddard: [smiling] They'll say, the poor girl couldn't help herself.

Baron Karl Von Marwitz: [serious] One false move could mean death for both of us. But death is nothing to what I feel for you.

[They kiss]

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While I thought TCM's print was better than the DVD-R I have of *Dark Journey*, your

British DVD version certainly is the best by far. And it's longer? Wonderful. I didn't

know it had been released on DVD. I keep hoping they put a box set together of

Vivien's films, even a British one. AMC had released one way back when they were

packaging box sets but I don't think the print quality was that great on any of the titles.

 

If no box set if forthcoming in the next couple of years, I may get that British DVD.

 

I hope everyone recorded/watched Sidewalks of London, which I think is Vivien's

best pre-Wind performance (I haven't seen 21 Days Together, however).

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The print shown on TCM was Rohauer as well, so maybe it was the same one? I don't know how long it ran....but it was lovely to see it again. I recorded the others as well, but haven't watched them.

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All right, I was able to finish Wuthering Heights. My first impression is great disappointment. I thought the film was overcooked and tedious. I liked a couple moments in the film, but that was about it. Robert Osborne spoke of some choosing it over Gone with the Wind for best picture of 1939. Oh, my. I prefer Rhett and Scarlett's tortured romance.

 

I must say, I really don't like the pomp of these English-set films. It absolutely kills me.

 

I had no idea you felt this way about Wuthering Heights, Ro. I can see why

you'd find them hard to like, especially Cathy.

 

I didn't like either of them.

 

Heathcliffe I think is easier to comprehend, for he is, in his way, a very "pure" individual. He lives only in his own ideas, or world, and that world is Catherine and their kingdom is Pennistone Crag (not sure I'm spelling that right, I don't have the book on hand). Without Catherine, he is lost. Even his quest for revenge (this movie should have been included in TCM's "REvenge" theme this month!)

is tied to her.

 

Yeah, but he sells out. I understand why he does, because he loves Cathy (Merle Oberon). He wants to prove she's wrong. Blah. I prefer Larry (Tyrone Power) in The Razor's Edge. I did like that Heathcliffe (Lawrence Olivier) spoke of his being miserable despite being "presentable" and rich.

 

Cathy is more problematic, but I have to confess to understanding her conflicts. She's

living a harsh life and she sees "the pretty lights" of the neighboring estate and she's

young enough to put too much emphasis on these delights. Also, Heathcliffe is, as she

says, not making any effort to better himself and make a life for them. He just lives to

be near her and desires nothing else...he has NO ambitions in life. That is why it is

ironic that not love, but thwarted desire and jealousy drives him to finally be ambitious...

just so he can show Cathy what she lost.

 

Yeah, I understand Cathy and her wants. Women! The heck with love!

 

My two favorite moments in the film are Cathy's, though. I liked it when she ripped the dress off. Perfect. And I liked that she told Heathcliffe, as she was dying, that she wished for him to scold her. I believe she said something to that effect. That's good stuff.

 

And oh, my, one of my favorite scenes in all movies is when they open the door at Edgar and Catherine's house to see Heathcliffe standing there in all his new "glory", ha. He is SO much

more impressive than Edgar ever THOUGHT of being.

 

I thought he wasn't impressive at all. He was no longer himself. He turned ugly.

 

But what a waste, why did evil impulses have to make him conquer the world instead of love? So I do feel Catherine was justified, a little, in being frustrated with him. But oh, goodness, the raging, nagging AGONY she felt when he came back, came back as the "king" she always commanded him to be. I love it! My kind of "tortured love" story!!

 

I guess it's eye of the beholder as to what makes one a "king."

 

But oh poor Isabella (Geraldine Fitzgerald)! Hers is just as tragic...even MORE

tragic an outcome because she was not selfish as the other two were...she truly

loved Heathcliffe and he treated and used her abominably. That to me was his

worst, worst act. For though Cathy essentially did the same to Isabella's brother,

she at least tried to be a good wife and treated him well. Still, that was perhaps

because Cathy could be a hypocrite for the rest of her life, Heathcliffe could not.

I feel he loathed himself at that point, loathed himself and Cathy for driving him

to such a cruel and loathesome point.

 

I was with Isabella (Geraldine Fitzgerald) until she told Heathcliffe about his "proper morals." And I really liked the look Heathcliffe shot at her after she said those words.

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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}

> All right, I was able to finish Wuthering Heights. My first impression is great disappointment. I thought the film was overcooked and tedious. I liked a couple moments in the film, but that was about it. Robert Osborne spoke of some choosing it over Gone with the Wind for best picture of 1939. Oh, my. I prefer Rhett and Scarlett's tortured romance.

>

> I must say, I really don't like the pomp of these English-set films. It absolutely kills me.

>

 

Wow, that's surprising. I thought you'd sympathize with the antagonism (by Heathcliffe) toward worldliness and all the class snobbery. Oh, well, it is a hyper-romanticized film and if you don't like English settings, there's little to attract.

 

> I had no idea you felt this way about Wuthering Heights, Ro. I can see why

> you'd find them hard to like, especially Cathy.

>

> I didn't like either of them.

>

 

Ha! Well at least you and Ro are finally on the same page. :D

 

>

> Yeah, but he sells out. I understand why he does, because he loves Cathy (Merle Oberon). He wants to prove she's wrong. Blah. I prefer Larry (Tyrone Power) in The Razor's Edge. I did like that Heathcliffe (Lawrence Olivier) spoke of his being miserable despite being "presentable" and rich.

>

 

I thought he wanted to show her what she lost and to get enough money to buy out Hindley and make him pay as well for all he did. I can understand that, even if it's not right. He was humiliated and hurt in so many ways since he was a kid. It's almost like the story in Son of Fury.

 

> My two favorite moments in the film are Cathy's, though. I liked it when she ripped the dress off. Perfect. And I liked that she told Heathcliffe that she wished for him to scold her, as she was dying. I believe she said something to that effect. That's good stuff.

>

 

Did you see the resemblances to Wake of the Red Witch?

 

> I thought he wasn't impressive at all. He was no longer himself. He turned ugly.

>

 

Not to me, I never saw Olivier so handsome, before or since. I admit I enjoyed the way

all the snobs squirmed.

 

> I guess it's eye of the beholder as to what makes one a "king."

>

 

It would have been more noble had he gone before and made something of himself out of love, rather than be goaded into it out of revenge.

 

> I was with Isabella (Geraldine Fitzgerald) until she told Heathcliffe about his "proper morals." And I really liked the look Heathcliffe shot at her after she said those words.

 

She was a child, with a child's perceptions or she'd never have been able

to remain ignorant of his true intentions. He was rather transparent from

the start, I thought, but for an innocent girl he was indeed a "king" because

she could marry him and at the same time rebel against her brother and Cathy.

 

However, I do agree GWTW is superior in its romantic couple and everything else.

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Wow, that's surprising. I thought you'd sympathize with the antagonism (by Heathcliffe) toward worldliness and all the class snobbery.

 

Hey, that's a terrific way of putting it: antagonizing. Everyone was telling him he was a nothing. It's a shame Cathy couldn't see through all of that.

 

Oh, well, it is a hyper-romanticized film and if you don't like English settings, there's little to attract.

 

I'd say!

 

Ha! Well at least you and Ro are finally on the same page. :D

 

She may change her mind, now!

 

I thought he wanted to show her what she lost and to get enough money to buy out Hindley and make him pay as well for all he did. I can understand that, even if it's not right. He was humiliated and hurt in so many ways since he was a kid. It's almost like the story in Son of Fury.

 

You're right, Son of Fury pretty much took from Wuthering Heights. If only Gene Tierney showed up in a grass skirt!

 

Did you see the resemblances to Wake of the Red Witch?

 

Yes. That was disappointing. Wake of the Red Witch completely stole the window scene. Not good.

 

Not to me, I never saw Olivier so handsome, before or since. I admit I enjoyed the way

all the snobs squirmed.

 

I prefer him dirty. :D I can't say I like Olivier in these kind of films.

 

It would have been more noble had he gone before and made something of himself out of love, rather than be goaded into it out of revenge.

 

I wish he worked on the docks!

 

She was a child, with a child's perceptions or she'd never have been able

to remain ignorant of his true intentions. He was rather transparent from

the start, I thought, but for an innocent girl he was indeed a "king" because

she could marry him and at the same time rebel against her brother and Cathy.

 

You are right about all of that. She was using him just as he was using her. I did like that most everyone suffers in the film. Only Edgar (David Niven) believes all is well.

 

However, I do agree GWTW is superior in its romantic couple and everything else.

 

I don't think it's close. Granted, the length of each film factors into that. I just didn't find Wuthering Heights to be all that impressive. But, these kind of films really aren't my kind of films.

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> Hey, that's a terrific way of putting it: antagonizing. Everyone was telling him he was a nothing. It's a shame Cathy couldn't see through all of that.

>

 

She was blinded by the "bright lights". Like the country girl who is dying to go to the big city. Of course, as long as Hindley was around, NO ONE had a chance to be happy. In my opinion, he was the poison that spoiled the barrel because he controlled the estate. Cathy couldn't leave, she was dependent on him and so was Heathcliffe who'd scarcely be employed anywhere else due to the prejudice against "gypsies" and Hindley would have spread the word against him if he ever left, too.

 

I despised Hindley so much. It's the ultimate example of the thankless brat that parents work hard and leave everything to. Better to give their goods away to gypsies. I'll be frank and say my favorite scenes are not between Heathcliffe and Cathy, but between Heathcliffe and Hindley.

 

> Ha! Well at least you and Ro are finally on the same page. :D

>

> She may change her mind, now!

>

 

Ha! I can see her wondering now if there was something redeeming about Cathy and Heathcliffe after all. :P

 

> You're right, Son of Fury pretty much took from Wuthering Heights. If only Gene Tierney showed up in a grass skirt!

>

 

:D

 

> Did you see the resemblances to Wake of the Red Witch?

>

> Yes. That was disappointing. Wake of the Red Witch completely stole the window scene. Not good.

>

 

Why disappointing? It's not like they stole from *Mr. Moto Takes a Vacation*, at least

they took from a classic.

 

> It would have been more noble had he gone before and made something of himself out of love, rather than be goaded into it out of revenge.

>

> I wish he worked on the docks!

>

 

Funny you love it when your film noir guys act the way he does.

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She was blinded by the "bright lights". Like the country girl who is dying to go to the big city.

 

I understand. I know many girls wish to experience such a life. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

Of course, as long as Hindley was around, NO ONE had a chance to be happy. In my opinion, he was the poison that spoiled the barrel because he controlled the estate. Cathy couldn't leave, she was dependent on him and so was Heathcliffe who'd scarcely be employed anywhere else due to the prejudice against "gypsies" and Hindley would have spread the word against him if he ever left, too.

 

I disagree. Cathy expected Heathcliffe to make a sacrifice, which he attempts, but she wasn't about to make any sacrifice. She placed it all in his lap. He was to do it all. Remember, he was on his way to America.

 

I despised Hindley so much. It's the ultimate example of the thankless brat that parents work hard and leave everything to. Better to give their goods away to gypsies. I'll be frank and say my favorite scenes are not between Heathcliffe and Cathy, but between Heathcliffe and Hindley.

 

He actually didn't bother me. Yeah, I know he treated Heathcliffe like dirt, but he eventually became a nobody in the story.

 

Why disappointing? It's not like they stole from Mr. Moto Takes a Vacation, at least

they took from a classic.

 

Because it's such a lovely moment. Now seeing it was directly taken from Wuthering Heights, it becomes disappointing.

 

Funny you love it when your film noir guys act the way he does.

 

How do you mean?

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>

> I disagree. Cathy expected Heathcliffe to make a sacrifice, which he attempts, but she wasn't about to make any sacrifice. She placed it all in his lap. He was to do it all. Remember, he was on his way to America.

>

 

I don't think she thinks it a sacrifice for him to become independent and be able to take her away from that squalor Hindley was creating for them on the Heights. And he came back, he couldn't go away from her. That disappointed her. I agree they both should have found another way but that's not the point of the story.

 

> He actually didn't bother me. Yeah, I know he treated Heathcliffe like dirt, but he eventually became a nobody in the story.

>

 

But he never ceased being a weasel who blamed someone else for his miserable existence. And that blame fell on Heathcliffe because he was a "gypsy beggar", from the lower class, and Hindley's whole world was rocked by the idea such a creature could rise above him. You've no idea how outrageous these ideas were in that part of the world at that time. England isn't America, the social prejudices are miles deep and there might as well be ten oceans between Wuthering Heights' new master and the Lyttons.

 

I don't think he "sold out" either since he did not attempt to fit into society, but to use his power to hurt others in a direct way. He wasn't a hypocrite.

 

> Because it's such a lovely moment. Now seeing it was directly taken from Wuthering Heights, it becomes disappointing.

>

 

I would never think such a thing since countless films "steal" or "borrow" from others. There's little that's original in the arts anyway. Everything is recycled.

 

> Funny you love it when your film noir guys act the way he does.

>

> How do you mean?

 

They all sell out as you say and they all are out for revenge or to prove themselves bigger in the eyes of someone else.

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I don't think she thinks it a sacrifice for him to become independent and be able to take her away from that squalor Hindley was creating for them on the Heights. And he came back, he couldn't go away from her. That disappointed her. I agree they both should have found another way but that's not the point of the story.

 

I thought she should go with him. They should start a life, together. But she wasn't into doing that. That would have been too difficult for her. She wanted comfort more than his love.

 

But he never ceased being a weasel who blamed someone else for his miserable existence. And that blame fell on Heathcliffe because he was a "gypsy beggar", from the lower class, and Hindley's whole world was rocked by the idea such a creature could rise above him. You've no idea how outrageous these ideas were in that part of the world at that time. England isn't America, the social prejudices are miles deep and there might as well be ten oceans between Wuthering Heights' new master and the Lyttons.

 

But I just didn't think he was much of a factor after the first part of the film. I just didn't seem him as a threat at all. Cathy was the threat to Heathcliffe, not Hindley. Cathy is who wrecks him.

 

I don't think he "sold out" either since he did not attempt to fit into society, but to use his power to hurt others in a direct way. He wasn't a hypocrite.

 

He ended up becoming what he despised. He sold out. I do like that he has great danes. That's a nice touch.

 

I would never think such a thing since countless films "steal" or "borrow" from others. There's little that's original in the arts anyway. Everything is recycled.

 

But it was a direct steal. It's done in the exact same way.

 

They all sell out as you say and they all are out for revenge or to prove themselves bigger in the eyes of someone else.

 

But, in most of those cases, they do it because they want to do it. Harry Fabian, for example, chases HIS dream. Heathcliffe doesn't chase his dream. He chases Cathy's dream.

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> I thought she should go with him. They should start a life, together. But she wasn't into doing that. That would have been too difficult for her. She wanted comfort more than his love.

>

 

I'm not sure she could. It would have meant extreme hardship for her. He shouldn't ask her to do that. It's not like she could work to help him and as I said, he couldn't work locally, he'd have to go to someplace like America, which he did only because he was alone and didn't have to worry about supporting her to begin with. I'm not justifying her but pointing out how all the cards were stacked against him, unless he were to leave and come back for her. What I wonder, is if she'd have waited for him even if she promised to. I don't think she would have. She was treacherous.

 

>

> But I just didn't think he was much of a factor after the first part of the film. I just didn't seem him as a threat at all. Cathy was the threat to Heathcliffe, not Hindley. Cathy is who wrecks him.

>

 

That's true, but I think she has more excuses than he. He abused power and freedom from the very start. Oh I can't stand him, he's such a waste.

 

> He ended up becoming what he despised. He sold out. I do like that he has great danes. That's a nice touch.

>

 

I didn't even remember that they were the same dogs as the Lyttons! Good catch.

 

> But it was a direct steal. It's done in the exact same way.

>

 

So?

 

> But, in most of those cases, they do it because they want to do it. Harry Fabian, for example, chases HIS dream. Heathcliffe doesn't chase his dream. He chases Cathy's dream.

 

Oh, so if they're self serving dreams that's okay. :P

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I'm not sure she could. It would have meant extreme hardship for her. He shouldn't ask her to do that. It's not like she could work to help him and as I said, he couldn't work locally, he'd have to go to someplace like America, which he did only because he was alone and didn't have to worry about supporting her to begin with. I'm not justifying her but pointing out how all the cards were stacked against him, unless he were to leave and come back for her.

 

I suppose you're right. I just think they could make it work in America. He would have her as his guiding light.

 

What I wonder, is if she'd have waited for him even if she promised to. I don't think she would have. She was treacherous.

 

Of course not! She was off to Edgar the moment she felt down about Heathcliffe.

 

That's true, but I think she has more excuses than he. He abused power and freedom from the very start. Oh I can't stand him, he's such a waste.

 

Oddly enough, he really didn't bother me. I just saw him as a weakling.

 

I didn't even remember that they were the same dogs as the Lyttons! Good catch.

 

He's surrounded himself with misery.

 

Oh, so if they're self serving dreams that's okay. :P

 

Yes!

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> I suppose you're right. I just think they could make it work in America. He would have her as his guiding light.

>

 

They could. He could have sent for her, after he'd taken hold there.

 

> Of course not! She was off to Edgar the moment she felt down about Heathcliffe.

>

 

Very true.

 

> Oddly enough, he really didn't bother me. I just saw him as a weakling.

>

 

That's enough to bother me to no end.

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