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Jayo

"Moguls and Movie Stars"

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I am not sure what was happening with the first showing of episode three. I think it ran over by only one or two minutes, finishing around 6:02 (6:04 with the RO outro.) But *Sunrise* was long by about ten minutes - at least, versus the programming guide on my cable box.

 

I watched the second showing in its entireity and was again really involved. But I am still having trouble keeping the names and studios connected. And poor Warner Bros. They've barely merited a mention so far - until they acquire Daryl Zanuck as production chief. And that ain't lasting for long. (With so many WB features accompanying Episode Four, they must be central to the next installment.)

 

But I need to know - what films were featured in the clips in the final few minutes - the flooding of the underground chamber with two men "trapped" and the shot of John Barrymore (?) looking into a mirror and seeing himself as a skeleton. Any thoughts or help?

 

And could the foreshadowing of *Sunset Blvd.* get any more explicit?

 

Kyle (still really enjoying each episode ALOT) In Hollywood

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I only saw the second half last night. Did they have anything more to say about Nicholas Schenck (sp?) other than the fact that he was the MGM head. As LBM's boss, clearly he was very influential, and deserved substantial mention. Did he get it?

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I don't think so. Theater owner Marcus Loew was heralded for the creation of MGM through the acquisition of "Goldwyn Pictures", "Metro Pictures" and "Louis B. Mayer Productions". Though what those three entities were "doing" prior to consolidation was pretty well ignored - save for Goldwyn's choice of a logo for his studio - and only Mayer and Thalberg seemed to have survived afterwards. I am not even sure who was the head of "Metro Pictures" when it was acquired. Thankfully there are additional screenings to help catch things may have slipped by on the first viewing.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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> {quote:title=VP19 wrote:}{quote}

> A good episode, with one huge mistake. Louise Brooks did NOT popularize the page-boy hairstyle of the 1920s; that honor belonged to Colleen Moore, who 1) wore it several years before Brooks; 2) was a far bigger star than Brooks, especially in America; and 3) wasn't even mentioned during the episode (her fame during the 1920s was about the same as Clara Bow's). What gives, TCM?

 

The series is getting allot of critique a fair amount of it negative, on Nitrateville. Comments are that it is really like a extremely condensed Cliff-Notes History of Hollywood. I said that they Cherry-Picked a few names that they felt might be somewhat familiar, and virtually ignored everyone else. But the *Colleen Moore* exclusion distresses me in particular, given that Warner's technically owns most of her existing films. I'm also shocked at the poor print quality of much of the footage, when dramatically better elements survive. Sad to say, I found episode three the weakest entry in the series thus far. I was hoping that it would be the best. No such luck.

 

 

 

Here is the link to the ongoing thread.

 

 

http://nitrateville.com/viewtopic.php?t=7630&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

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> {quote:title=hlywdkjk wrote:}{quote}

>

>

> But I need to know - what films were featured in the clips in the final few minutes - the flooding of the underground chamber with two men "trapped" and the shot of John Barrymore (?) looking into a mirror and seeing himself as a skeleton. Any thoughts or help?

>

> And could the foreshadowing of *Sunset Blvd.* get any more explicit?

>

> Kyle (still really enjoying each episode ALOT) In Hollywood

 

 

hlywdkjk,

 

The actor who witnesses the vision is in-fact the tragic *Wallace Reid* in the scene, not *John Barrymore.* The film is Cecil De Mille's 1921 extravaganza *THE AFFAIRS OF ANATOL* also with Gloria Swanson, Bebe Daniels, Wanda Hawley, Theodore Roberts, Agnes Ayres, and Monte Blue. So basically an all star cast. Thie movie is or at least was available in a gorgeous Multi-Tinted and toned print, with some Stencil color sequences on DVD from Image Entertainment some years ago. It might be out of print now, I am not sure? Reid and Barrymore also share in common that neither has been mentioned at all in the series.

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To some extent there will be a difference of opinion about the Moguls series depending on one's level of expertise about the era. What we shouldn't lose sight of is how much this series appeals to people who are beginners in the subject. This is History of Hollywood 101, packing a decade into an hour, so inevitably there will be something of a Cliff's Notes approach.

 

Several posters have noted that spouses and children were caught up in the show. That's my experience, too. Last night my partner, who always claims not to like classic films, started watching episode 3 about ten minutes in, sat down, and watched the rest with full attention. This material is new to many people, and they are fascinated by it. This series is a good place to start.

 

Newcomers are stunned by the size of the spectacle in silent films and by the elaborate sight gags in the comedies. These first three episodes will make more people willing to look at silent films, and that has to be a good thing.

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I actually find some of the criticisms unfair. I have not seen the Brownlow documentary (and I would absolutely love to if I could find it) but from what I understand that entire documentary was on the silent era. This is a 7 part series going up to 1970. They only have an hour per decade. To think it can include everything is ridiculous. And I do understand why they would focus on bigger names from the periods.

 

This documentary is probably more geared to non-experts. I am not an expert and I am really enjoying the series. Maybe this stuff is common knowledge to the posters over at NitrateVille but it certainly isn't to me and I expect to many other TCM viewers.

 

It would have been nice if each part could have been longer though but I am enjoying what I have seen so far.

 

Now of course if they make mistakes that is a *valid criticism*. I guess no one is perfect and I am sure this isn't the only documentary to do so. I was not familiar with Colleen Moore so thank you very much for pointing that out.

 

Edited by: Kinokima on Nov 16, 2010 1:01 PM

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I agree. I am enjoying the series for what it is. I admit there are things about it that I already know, but I have learned something from each episode, unlike the experts. My family finds it interesting and that can only be a good thing. I am not saying the show is perfect.

 

I just wish that we could get some new and different discussions.... because it's depressing how one note this thread is. Just as the experts are unhappy with the show because they already know everything in it, I am sick of the discussion, because I've heard it all before, over and over, day after day. You are all smart enough to come up with something new to talk about. I enjoyed the information about Wallace Reid and John Barrymore, for instance.

 

I wish all of you would pick out one thing from each episode that you found interesting, rather than pontificating about what was left out. I also wish that members would actually read other people's posts before bringing up the same complaints that were already answered earlier in the thread.

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> {quote:title=gagman66 wrote:}{quote}

> Kinokima,

>

> My first Colleen Moore Slide-Show.

>

 

Thanks, you did a good job and she's very cute. Hopefully TCM will play one of her films one day soon so I could experience her. :)

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*The series is getting allot of critique a fair amount of it negative, on Nitrateville. Comments are that it is really like a extremely condensed Cliff-Notes History of Hollywood.*

 

Jeffrey,

 

And many of the posters at Nitrateville have also pointed out that those who know a great deal about the era (especially those at Nitrateville which is filled with film historians and archivists) may not find much new in this series but those who are new to classic film or are wanting to learn more about history of the Moguls will find plenty to keep them interested.

 

To say again what I said pages back, this is not a retread of *Hollywood*, it is not a history of the silent era, it is not the story of the star system or a history of Hollywood.

 

It is the story of how a group of immigrants, without much education but who had a lot of moxie, got in on the ground floor of film exhibition and picture making and turned that all into a highly profitable business that made them rich.

 

Thirty years ago, Kevin Brownlow's *Hollywood* reached a generation of film buffs who knew little about the silent era and because of that series many got interested not only in the history of silents and the stars of the era but also got interested in film history.

 

Perhaps, *Moguls and Movie Stars* will have a similar affect on its audience.

 

And as I said earlier in this thread (and which has been echoed at Nitrateville), props to TCM for doing this series. No other network or cable channel would have considered undertaking or producing this series. I hope it is a success. It would be great to see more multi-episode documentaries on TCM.

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But I need to know - what films were featured in the clips in the final few minutes - the flooding of the underground chamber with two men "trapped" and the shot of John Barrymore (?) looking into a mirror and seeing himself as a skeleton. Any thoughts or help?

 

Kyle ? the scene of the two men trapped in the flooding underground chamber is near the end of PHANTOM OF THE OPERA.

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"You can't please everyone so..."

 

I think Rick Nelson said it best when he sang his last hit song. You'll always find naysayers, J.F. Folks love to nitpick apart TCM. That's where they get their kicks from, they can have at it. To me

it says more about the naysayers than it does about the documentary. Aaaah don't you love so-called "experts."

 

Me...you...others, we're enjoying the "MOGULS AND MOVIE STARS" documentary. I daresay if Brownlow's documentary were to air, those same naysayers would pick that apart within an inch

of its life, and that documentary is s'posed to be the Mt. Everest of documentaries about Hollywood.

I guess that's 'human' nature. I guess.

 

So far from what I've seen in these three parts of the "MOGULS..." documentary, there's a lot that

I already know, but there's a helluva lot that I am learning.

 

I'm having a great time with it.

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King, I agree with you. I see this as a great intro to film history and would be a great companion piece to Brownlow & Gill's Hollywood series which will fill in many of the gaps that are in the Moguls & Movie Stars series. Together, they will give one a pretty good understanding of Hollywood film history.

 

Thank you TCM for putting this series out. I've really enjoyed it thus far.

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It's too bad the Hollywood series is very hard to find for those of us who were not lucky to experience it. I would love to hear James Mason's voice narrating about the Silent Era.

 

At most I found this out of Print DVD from the UK. I don't think it was ever released at all on DVD in the US.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hollywood-Complete-Four-Discs-DVD/dp/B000CR6X1G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1289952464&sr=8-3

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Kinokima,

 

Alas, Thames HOLLYWOOD was released on Laser-disc in the early 90's, but never on DVD anyplace. There was talk of a DVD release back in 2006 in the UK. Nothing ever came of it and plans were abandoned. Whoever is selling this has copied the series from Laser-disc, or more likely VHS. I have the series on 7 DVD-R's from laser-disc. It's about the best you can do, unless everything is all re-mastered for DVD or Blu-ray in the future. Nothing seems to have been re-mastered for MOGULS AND MOVIE STARS, so I don't see it happening.

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*"Kyle ? the scene of the two men trapped in the flooding underground chamber is near the end of PHANTOM OF THE OPERA."* - Jezebel38

 

Thanks 'Jezebel'! I am most grateful for that info.

 

Kyle In Hollywood

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After reading all the posts I went to Nitraville and got brave enough to join. They have nothing on us so I might not visit them all that much. I want to keep growing in my knowledge of what I once hoped to be my profession and will check out all opportunities to do so.

 

I am watching the series faithfully and enjoying it. Nothing's perfect and everybody isn't going to like it but it is enlightening if you keep an open mind.

 

I have often heard of Queen Kelly and thought it was never completed. If it was is the whole thing available? If so, could it be a "Silent Suday" offering? Or was it too daring to release? See, TCM, you guys are doing your thing or I wouldn't be asking allthese questions. Waiting for parts 4-7 even more than I was at the sart.

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wouldbestar,

 

What survives of Von Stroheim's *QUEEN KELLY* is on DVD in a beautiful print from Kino with an awesome vintage musical score. It has been on TCM a few times in the past, though not for about 5 to going on 6 years.

 

I posted three clips on TCM CFU some months ago. Here are the links:

 

 

 

http://fan.tcm.com/_Gloria-Swanson-Queen-Kelly-By-Chance-Encounter/video/1170223/66470.html

 

http://fan.tcm.com/_Gloria-Swanson-Queen-Kelly-Chastised/video/1170451/66470.html?b=

 

http://fan.tcm.com/_Gloria-Swanson-Awake-In-The-Palace/video/1171194/66470.html?b=

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PHOTO_9790717_66470_8093159_main.jpg

 

*Gloria Swanson and Walter Byron in QUEEN KELLY*

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I love this series, it is just so wonderful to see the old silents, which I love. However, on the third installment, when they speak of Garbo, they completely left out the part that Mauritz Stiller was her mentor, and he was her director, when LBM met both of them, and by the way, her name had been changed at the age of 18 legally, before MGM, and the name Garbo was suggested by Stiller. I do like the frankness of the documentary, and am looking forward to more in epidode 4, I do not know the accuracy of other statements in the documentary, but it is very enjoyable nontheless. Thank you TCM for this treat!

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> {quote:title=Kinokima wrote:}{quote}

> It's too bad the Hollywood series is very hard to find for those of us who were not lucky to experience it. I would love to hear James Mason's voice narrating about the Silent Era.

 

I also would absolutely LOVE if this series were made available on DVD!! I remember catching an episode or two on a Public TV station many years ago, and I remember hearing James Mason and seeing such wonder on the screen, and also the plaintive, sad and somewhat melancholy musical score. I would LOVE to see this released in conjunction with the Moguls set!

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While TCM is airing Chaplin's *THE KID* this evening, as usual it will be the caustically reedited 1972 version. Not the original cut of the movie. The film is much stronger in it's entirety. If only the rather dense Chaplin Heir's understood this. They do Chaplin a disservice by not letting the complete works be scene.

 

It's interesting that there has been no mention of *First National Pictures* in the series whatsoever. That would have definitely demanded a word about *Colleen Moore* since she was married to Studio Mogul *John McCormick.* Ditto The great *Norma Talmadge* who was just as big of an international Superstar as *Mary Pickford,* having actually eclipsed her popularity by 1920. Norma was married to the powerful *Joseph Schenck,*

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