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Sepiatone

Science Fiction

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von Braun was working for us since shortly after the end of

WW II. I think the case can be made that he was a war

criminal, but I think calling him a mass-killer is a stretch.

He had to do more or less what he was told to do, or else.

He was even detained by the SS for a short period of time

as a "communist sympathizer."

 

 

 

 

jfk-at-cape-canaveral.jpg

Just one of history's many ironies.

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FredCDobbs wrote:

<< had never met a mass-killer or a war criminal before. But by '64, he was working for us. >>

 

There is an expression: "Sure he's a S.O.B but he's *our* S.O.B.".

 

Paid a big human price in the dream of going to the moon and now we are in no big hurry to go back. NASA sure is dragging their feet on the shuttle replacement.

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braun.jpg

 

Look at him ladies; quite the package he was! Baron, aristocratic, handsome, super smart, able to snake charm the likes of both Hitler, Truman and most any woman who came along! He seems more like a character from a screenplay than the real life person he was. It's almost like the studio calling in Ray Milland one day and telling him: "guess what? From today on you are a "rocket scientist"!

 

 

 

 

There is a great deal about the *Freiherr (Baron) von Braun* out there, and I felt it useful to find an authoritative source for his writings and articles. I found the website for the* Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville Alabama:*

 

**http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/vonbraun/

 

On this website, you can access the following:

 

 

 

Interviews (PDF)

Biography of Wernher Von Braun

Recollections of Childhood

Media Clip- "Castles in the Air Speech"

Video Clip (.mpg) | Transcript

Bibliography of Wernher Von Braun

Article on Von Braun and Walt Disney

Photo Gallery

 

Von Braun Papers at the Library of Congress

Wernher Von Braun Letter's to Vice President Lyndon Johnson dated April 29, 1961

Wernher Von Braun Management Announcements

Wernher von Braun Weekly Notes

Wernher von Braun and the Art of the Image (PDF)

Wernher von Braun Remarks Following Apollo 11 (PDF)

Wernher von Braun Early Steps Toward Space Station (PDF)

 

 

 

Regarding his historical role as "turncoat" scientist, it has to be seen in context of our rivalry with the Soviets. I feel that rivalry already started near the war's end, when both sides were very eager to acquire as much of the German rocket research, hardware and scientists that it could. Von Braun would have had surrender to somebody, either the west, or to the Russians. He was considered a spoil of war, and both "teams" wanted this player something bad! It was either "play" for us, or play for the other team, and we weren't going to let that happen. He was pure "MVP", the "Air Jordan" of his field!

 

 

 

The speculation has started in his case as well. They quote him on the *History Channel* as saying *"...we had help from another world.",* meaning that his nazi era work was helped along and accelerated by ET contact. I would love to know a source for such a remarkable quote among his writings or interviews. The nazis were indeed working on some exotic technology for that time.

 

 

 

 

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Mass Murder? Wasn't he just following orders? Adjacent to that would be to label Curt LeMay and Tibbets as mass Murders.

 

 

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braun2.jpg

 

*"Ich will nur zum Mars fliegen"* He only wanted to go to Mars and got sidetracked along the way! His bosses wanted him to go to London first. Walk before you can run....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi megawolf,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's the unfortunate thing with dictatorship; everybody in society is "under orders"; disobedience is not an option. Curtis LeMay didn't HAVE to be a bombing general, he could have resigned. (He would have lost his pension, but he wouldn't have wound up in prison.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once the Hitler govt decided that you were valuable and a certain co-operation was wanted from you, refusal or resignation was NOT an option! Hitler demanded absolute obediance; he did not accept "resignations" unless they were accompanied by suicide.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thelma (Ich will nur zum Mars fliegen) Todd

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If the Germans had won the war they might have put Arthur

"Bomber" Harris on trial. He was responsible for carrying out

the area bombing of German cities and the firebombing of Dresden,

which killed many more civilians than the V-2 rockets of von Braun.

But Harris was only following the orders of higher ups too. Today,

with more precise bombing, it's hard to have an excuse for killing

civilians, but I have no doubt that if things got rough, they would

be targeted.

 

Operation Paperclip was used to "whitewash" the German scientists,

including von Braun, to hide their Nazi past, so they would be, at least

on the surface, more presentable to Americans, and also to get around

Truman's order that no member of the Nazi Party would be included.

 

A number of both military and civilian officials managed to resign

during Hitler's reign and live to tell the tale. But it's probably not an

action one would want to undertake without some serious thought.

 

 

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I remember those days well, even though I was a kid. We used to see von Braun in German newsreels about the V-1 and V-2.

 

Then, all of a sudden we heard that he and some other "captured" German rocket scientists were coming here. We were told in newsreels and newspapers that the Russians had captured a bunch of German rocket scientists too, and they were putting them to work making long-range missiles. Therefore, we needed to bring our captured Germans to the US to design rockets for us.

 

A lot of people grumbled and complained about it, but it seems that we had no rocket scientists of our own. We were way behind in rocket design back in the late '40s. So far behind that our first big long-range rockets were, in fact, V-2 rockets imported from Germany.

 

A German V-2 taking off from White Sands, USA, 1946:

 

090928-F-1234S-015.jpg

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>This thread has veered way off-course into a political discussion.

 

Ok, sorry. :)

 

When I was a kid, rocket science was just becoming known to the public through newsreels, and Hollywood was turning out science fiction movies about rocket travel. And there were war movies then too, so I guess I got them all mixed up. :)

 

I loved The Man From Planet X as a kid. This came out a year or two after a near-earth pass by an asteroid, which was in the news, and I think that's where that movie idea came from.

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Allow me to solve another UFO myth, this is in regard to one of the Nazi UFO projects. Remember that circular concrete ring structure some have speculated to be associated with saucer or bell research?

Well it turned out to be nothing no more than a water tower.

 

First photo is of the structure missing the tower section. 2nd photo is a intact tower.

 

Kecksburg%20Bell%20Bell%20Die%20Glocke%2

 

a5e35b814d1b.jpg

 

The Nazis would had experimented with every known shape just like we and the Canadians did just to see how it performs. Nothing unusual.

 

This Canadian Avro flying folly barely made it 2 feet off the ground.

avrocarflyingew8.jpg

 

Vought V.173 Flying Pancake (maple syrup not included)

6.jpg

 

Saucers turns out not to be the best shape.

 

Edited by: hamradio on Apr 7, 2012 11:41 PM Fixed typos

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I blame Christopher Columbus for much. Before he stuck his nose into the affair a person wishing to go into space need only sail to the edge of the world and jump off.

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Hi SansFin,

 

 

 

Even around *Columbus* there is UFO speculation! He is reported to have observed luminous, moving flying objects at night in his journals.. This often mentioned on the *Ancient Aliens* show. Years ago, I saw an English edition of Columbus' journals for sale in an antique book store, but the price was over $200. (I took a pass). I would like to see the source quote.

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>ThelmaTodd wrote: Even around Columbus there is UFO speculation!

h4. LOL

When I saw that line at first glance, I thought-

"Why is it a big deal around Ohio?"

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Me too. :) And I was wondering if there was any UFO speculation around Cincinnati too.

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Your Radio Controlled rocket link locked up on my computer so I don't know whats on it.

 

Germany had a successful radio controlled missle called the *Fritz X*.

It was very advanced for its time, not only was it RC but had a televison camera to help in guidence similiar to the modern Maverick anti-tank missle.

 

jenis-jenis-peluru-kendali-unikboss-4.jp

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Hi casablancalover,

 

Columbus, Shmalumbus! Whether it's the man or the town, is there no escaping the madness?

 

OHIO UFO SIGHTINGS

http://www.ufosnw.com/sighting_reports/sighting_reports_oh.htm

 

Contains numerous videos.

 

Bear in mind that videos alone are never taken as hard evidence. All analysis can usually show is whether the footage has been doctored or not; what is being shown in the videos remains an open question that needs other evidence or investigation. (Was it picked up on radar; if the thing landed,do any physical traces remain on scene? etc.) Then, conscientous invesitgation requires that the possibility of the more "usual suspects" be eliminated, like conventional aircraft, atmospheric phenomena, flares, etc. etc.

 

 

 

 

PS: The enigmatic title of my post is meant as a humorous, tongue in cheek riddle.

 

 

 

speakthelma.gif

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> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote}

> Then, all of a sudden we heard that he and some other "captured" German rocket scientists were coming here. We were told in newsreels and newspapers that the Russians had captured a bunch of German rocket scientists too, and they were putting them to work making long-range missiles.

 

I was in 7th grade in 1961, at John Marshall in Oklahoma City. This was post-Sputnik, and we had a missile engineering course in HS! Back then, the word was that the US got most of the German guidance people, and the Russians got most of the propulsion people, and this could be seen in our products.

 

In the 50s, V2s were often shown in Sci Fi shows as the "space ship" involved. Or, if it wasn't real V2 footage, the ship shown at least looked a lot like a V2. Back in the late 50s, I had three picture books by Willy Ley, conjecture on future space ventures. His space station looked very much like the one in *2001*. I don't know if he got credit in the film, but he should have.

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Speaking of von Braun...

 

 

 

 

 

 

You folks have probably heard this one before, but word was that one day in 1930 there was a short and somewhat bitter exchange between the then 18 year old Wernher and his instructor at the Technical University of Berlin that went somethin' like this....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instructor: "Wernher! Do you know you missed school three times last week?!!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

von Braun: "Yah, I know, Herr Instructor, BUT ONLY by a few hundred meters or so...and by next week I think I'll pretty much at least have the parking lot zero-ed in on!"

 

 

 

 

(...of course, this was all very loosely translated from the original German transcripts, and so your guess is as good as mine if it ever really happened) ;)

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Regarding Columbus

http://strangegr.tripod.com/strangeandparanormalactivities/id25.html

 

One of the most fascinating stuff I like is gas methane hydrate aka the Gas Bubble "theory" (really only a theory). It can cause very unusual phenomena and can make entire oil platforms disappear without a trace when large eruptions occur.

 

Also whrn large amount of methane rises though the water column, it ionizes, radios and compasses won't work in an ionized atmosphere.

It takes only 1% mixture to stall a combustion engine!

 

This *is* the biblical fire and ice mingling, :D

 

Burning_Hydrate.jpg

 

gas+hydrate.jpg

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Thelma, All that shaky video footage of UFO sightings might have been the inspiration for that shaky, hand-held camera technique overused by many who shoot television shows for the last 15 years or so. I'm WAY past tired of it by now.

 

 

Sepiatone

 

 

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Imagine how many shaky hands were involved when people in too big of a hurry to take their UFO pic when this weather balloon carrying the package below was launced. Notice its saucer shape of the package and what can happen when the balloon blends in with the clouds at a distance.

 

ds04smart.jpg

 

Edited by: hamradio on Apr 9, 2012 1:11 PM

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> {quote:title=hamradio wrote:}{quote}

> One of the most fascinating stuff I like is gas methane hydrate aka the Gas Bubble "theory" (really only a theory).

 

I believe that would be a very frustrating truth. It would mean that there is a huge amount of fossil fuel with an area density so small it could not be tapped.

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