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TomJH

Zorro and Don Juan - A Great Swashbuckling Double Bill

338 posts in this topic

Well, ya know Tom...maybe TB has just finished watching a "Laura Croft" movie marathon, and so maybe this whole "Feminist Agenda" thing was still fresh in his mind and he just wanted tio express some thoughts about it in your thread.

 

(...ever think o' THAT?!) ;)

 

LOL

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Well, Tom, I'm a feminist, and I happen to love both Mark of Zorro and The Adventures of Don Juan because I also appreciate good scripts, beautiful music, and lavish costumes, plus as a hetero woman, I enjoy the presence of Power, Flynn, and Rathbone. Both of these films are not routine "actioners", but very skillfully written and played. I also think TCM does an excellent job spotlighting the films of great actresses who were and also played independent women. Plenty of folks wrote about Barbara Stanwyck month, Loretta Young month, and the women of the pre-codes, and I've seen those posts and enjoyed those movies.

 

 

I'm not a big Western fan, but I don't have any problem with a poster doing a couple of reviews of favorite Westerns, either. The great thing about following all these threads is that I get to read intelligent commentary about a variety of genres, and TCM provides a forum for expressing all these opinions.

 

 

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Thanks for your comments, rosebette. And if someone doesn't want to read my reviews of Zorro or Don Juan they can simply pass them, rather than expressing "concerns" over the selection of those films, as opposed to others.

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The original poster zeroed in on films with Ty Power and Errol Flynn and made it seem like this was a double bill. In fact, TCM is airing a whole evening of swashbucklers and they will be broadcast, as you pointed out, into the early hours of the morning.

 

AT SWORD'S POINT is on my list of great swashbucklers. And Leonard Maltin seems to like it, too. In fact, he says it is likable and that it has an 'energetic cast' and 'vivid Technicolor settings.'

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Dargo,

 

I am proud to be a feminist and have been for twenty years.

 

I did have 'issue' with TCM airing coming of age stories last night that were all about boys, except for the last one, with Amanda Blake. I think the evening's presentation of this theme could have been much more balanced.

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*I am proud to be a feminist and have been for twenty years.*

 

Fine. But why do you have to bring your agenda to someone's thread, especially when you create so many of your own? Please do your controlling there.

 

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I think there is room in this thread for a discussion of lady swashbucklers. This does not have to be about male sword play with the girl sitting on the side waiting to give the camera her best damsel-in-distress close-up.

 

Why not compare ZORRO and DON JUAN (a name that has become synonymous with unchecked male prowess) to the other films that TCM is offering tonight, like the Payne and O'Hara vehicles...? Why does that seem to be a threat to a more comprehensive dialogue about these kinds of films and TCM's scheduling of them...?

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TB, there's nothing wrong with discussing a wide spectrum of films on a thread. It's just that you ALWAYS feel a need to re-direct someone else's thread. It must be murder for someone around you who says they'd like a glass of juice but you tell them let's discuss milk.

 

This thread is a celebration of two great films coming on tomorrow night. Stop trying to steer it in another direction that you deem more appropriate. You want a lady swashbuckler thread? You're free to create one but you sure won't have many films to talk about.

 

 

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Tom,

 

I do not think you are acting very polite. Quite frankly, I think you should be thanking me for adding a dimension to this discussion that only bolsters your thread, if you let it. Think about that, please.

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>Dargo, I am proud to be a feminist and have been for twenty years.

 

Well TB, I think I can probably top ya on the "Feminist Seniority List". Ya see, maybe it's because even in the 1950s and when I was but a lad, I was raised by a father and mother who both worked outside the home, and with my father pitching in on all the "household chores". And, there always seemed to be the idea that there was no "hierarchy" when it came to the decision-making between Mom and Pop, either.

 

And thus, growing up in that sort of environment and witnessing an equitable balance of parental responsibilty shared by my parents at that time, and pretty much always thinking that that sort of relationship is as fair and proper as it gets, I suppose you could call me a "Feminist" for almost all of my 60 years on this planet. And in fact, truth be known, I've probably also always thought of "The Fairer Sex" as also being "The Better Sex" overall.

 

But besides that, don't ya think it MIGHT have been just a LITTLE improper to imply to Tom that his thread was in any manner being "sexist"?

 

Sorry, but to me, that seemed to be something that came right out of the blue here, my friend.

 

And, after reading what appears to be your rationale for going this direction in this thread:

 

> I did have 'issue' with TCM airing coming of age stories last night that were all about boys, except for the last one, with Amanda Blake. I think the evening's presentation of this theme could have been much more balanced.

 

I have to wonder why you didn't instead think of possibly starting another and different thread with that very issue in mind, as I actually think you might have a valid point with that topic, and it would probably make for yet another of your always interesting thread topics at this website.

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Interesting post, Dargo. I do not think it is a good thing to tell someone else what they are implying, do you, in case that is not what is happening at all? Let each person speak for him or herself and clarify their own meanings.

 

Also, it does not matter who has been a feminist longer, or who has subscribed to women's lib the longest.

 

If I were to create a related thread, it would be about a Maureen O'Hara Swashbuckling Double Bill. LOL

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Granted TB. While the use of the word "implying" in my previous post might have been a bit presumptuous on my part, I still feel your initial posting in Tom's thread seemed a little "out of nowhere".

 

And, unlike whenever some of us would-be comedians around here often sidetrack threads with tangential little jokes, I have to say I still feel your initial posting seemed to me(and as apparently so too to the OP ) to have some "agenda" attached which we've felt ran counter to the more, let us say, celebratory nature of this thread about two well-made classic Swashbucklers.

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Dargo, having read your latest posts I must compliment you for being the good ol' boy diplomat that you are.

 

Now, a reminder that it's Monday evening that two of the great swashbucklers are coming on TCM, a treat for those who love them, and an even bigger one for those viewers who have never seen them:

 

8pm (EST):

 

poster7roubenmamouliant.jpg

 

10pm (EST):

 

l_40076_d6cdfa4c.jpg

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Why, thank you, kind sir. ;)

 

And, seein' as how "Don Juan" is still pretty fresh in my mind from the last showing on TCM(and when you and I raved about it afterward on these very boards), I have to say I'm actually looking more toward to watching Mr. Power do his "Zorro" thing, as it's been quite a few years since I've watched that one.

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Dargo,

 

I am glad to see AT SWORD'S POINT on the schedule, which I think is probably one of the better productions to come out of RKO during Howard Hughes' time in charge at the studio.

 

Certainly, ZORRO and DON JUAN are by no means the only classic swashbucklers and TCM is to be commended for programming all these titles during one evening.

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I'll try to catch that one too, TB.

 

(...I mean WHO doesn't like lookin' at Miss O'Hara, RIGHT?!) ;)

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Dargo, I suspect there are a fair number of TCM viewers that haven't seen The Mark of Zorro in a few years, if at all. I think you're in for a real treat. Personally, I think this was, bar none, Ty Power's greatest adventure film.

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> {quote:title=TopBilled wrote:}{quote}

> If I were to create a related thread, it would be about a Maureen O'Hara Swashbuckling Double Bill. LOL

Then why not do so?

 

You can even start a thread on how modern movies take fairy tale heroines who now kick butt, such as how Snow White becomes a Joan of Arc type in Snow White and the Hunstman, and Gretel (of H&G) is now a weapon-carrying, witch-destroying warrior.

 

I was thinking about doing a thread on All the President's Men and All the King's Men, but it may not be PC.

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Top Billed wrote: "Certainly, ZORRO and DON JUAN are by no means the only classic swashbucklers and TCM is to be commended for programming all these titles during one evening."

 

True, but then you also wrote, "How come we do not get all excited about the women's pictures as much as we do about the male-dominated action flicks?"

 

I truly think that if the original poster just wanted to focus on the first two films - OR ANY FILMS OF HIS OR HER CHOICE - who are we to say it's a double standard? Are we allowed to start a thread on Dick Tracy without mentioning Nancy Drew? Can I start a thread on Mildred Pierce, or do I need to bring in Gentleman's Agreement. Both deal at some point with raising children.

 

> {quote:title=TopBilled wrote:}{quote}Tom,

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> I do not think you are acting very polite. Quite frankly, I think you should be thanking me for adding a dimension to this discussion that only bolsters your thread, if you let it.

Warning, warning: SUPER-EGO ALERT! Geez!

 

I don't think he was starting a discussion, as much as try to let us know of two great films back-to-back that he or she really likes.

 

If you want to focus on the feminine side because you have a complaint, then why not create your own thread instead of disrupting someone else's?

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TB, as you can see by the title of this thread, it is NOT about Maureen O'Hara swashbucklers. It is about Zorro and Don Juan.

 

Please have the courtesy to stop trying to turn my thread into something that is part of an agenda of your own.

 

 

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Tom,

 

You're starting to go a little too far in my opinion. You are now trying to dictate to others what their content should be in your thread. As long as we are contributing film-related ideas and doing it respectfully, then that should be allowed.

 

My Loretta Young SOTM thread, which has over 16,000 views and is still going strong, has often been derailed. I have continued to post about Loretta and the topic at hand. The other posts kept the thread hot and on page one for months (since October). I was not always pleased when people trashed Loretta, but I tolerated it. Also, I never told them they had to limit their conversations to Loretta, when thoughts turned to other stars she may have worked with, because there was always the chance I could learn something new.

 

Again, let's relax and enjoy the diversity that people bring to our threads and the message boards in general. After all, these are 'general' discussions, not narrowly defined discussions. Thanks for understanding and appreciating a different point of view.

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*TB wrote: let's relax and enjoy the diversity that people bring to our threads and the message boards in general.*

 

To tell you the truth, I was perfectly relaxed with this thread, as were others who participated, I believe, until you came aboard, OUT OF NOWHERE, with your "concerns" for the thread's direction, with your feminist agenda.

 

That's like my coming aboard your Loretta Young thread and saying, "I'm concerned with the direction of the thread concentrating upon Loretta Young. Let's talk about Tyrone Power." Quite frankly, if I had done that, especially considering the title of the thread, it would have been rude.

 

It was apparent from the initial posting that this thread is intended to celebrate two specific films that are coming on TCM tomorrow night. Period.

 

Please do not bring your agenda here when you can create a thread of your own on that subject.

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Well, you certainly were not going to be appreciated in that Loretta Young thread if you were at all negative about her:

 

We are reading comments from people who do not share good feelings about a star that TCM's programmers feel should be honored. The thread is about celebrating her achievements along with TCM. It is very disappointing when other posters see the thread as an opportunity to say unkind things and silly, disrespectful things that would be better left unsaid. Every negative comment about Miss Young is a slam against her fans, her family and against TCM which is devoting a large part of its January programming to her legacy.

 

So much for the diversity that people can bring to threads nor does it display much tolerance for those with an alternative opinion. BTW, the OP of that thread was just a list of titles, at no point was it noted that we had to applaud Loretta's parents, the TCM staff and those who worship at the throne of Loretta young.

 

And please note - I like Loretta Young and said so in the thread.

 

So, just let it be known that you only wish to hear positive things about THE MARK OF ZORRO and THE ADVENTURES OF DON JUAN and that any negative comments about them is a slam against the fans of the films, the families of the stars, their agents and their pets and against TCM which is devoting four hours of tomorrow's schedule to their legacy.

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