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TomJH

Bogart Vs. Cagney Vs. Robinson

999 posts in this topic

Geminigirl, I find it interesting that you don't think Cagney had much charisma. To me, particularly in his films of the '30s and early '40s, he is one of the most charismatic of all stars. I can't take my eyes off him when he's on screen. Have you seen him in Angels with Dirty Faces, as one of the most lovable of all screen gangsters, Rocky Sullivan? I think it was a key performance in his career representative of that early man child appeal that he had during his first decade or so in the movies.

 

Ten years later, by the time he made White Heat, he was clearly physically past his prime, with that middle age spread that he would be battling for the rest of his life. So what does he do in this role? He gives the most audacious performance of his life, helping, as well, to pave the way for the harder crime dramas that were to come in the '50s.

 

Who can forget Cagney's agonized cries of grief, mixed with insanity, in the prison cafeteria scene after he finds out that his mother has died? And what better scene to demonstrate James Cagney's courage as an actor than that same one in which he climbs on top of a cafeteria table, knocking aside food and dishes, mumbling insanely, as a shocked prison populace watches him? Can you image how shocked audiences in 1949 must have been watching this scene, the same James Cagney who had been their Yankee Doodle Dandy only seven years before?

 

And even that remarkable scene he at least equalled, if not topped, with White Heat's incredible literally explosive climax, standing on top of that oil tank, cops all around him, a look of sheer defiance on his face, looking to the heavens as he screams "Made it, Ma. Top of the world!" Only to then blow himself up, trying to take as many of the cops with him as he could. James Cagney as Cody Jarrett going out his way. Looking, through his own warped vision, like it's a moment of triumph, rather than defeat.

 

I will never be able to see White Heat enough times because of the brilliance of Cagney's chilling portrait. He and director Raoul Walsh made beautiful tough guy music together, just eight years after The Strawberry Blonde, a film which couldn't be more contrasting in nature. Cagney and Walsh were one of the great star/director combinations, in my opinion, to which few people ever refer.

 

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QcRzIIOXEEE9Re4Xiw01xSDmGXd6qZwm0nA5geWVKC3CDmnGCs7tB9BejftxGOPDS91w7rHfhdyB5HOuWi0hfJGEx24QQ4/fJbp2I9JMeI9XBMCyUgNDye646CRNINDSXlpIPi5uE5B/8Ax/IpxsUg9l0o8n/QrRWdgcKaozDweLSIj9GuHOk04/mb9WoM2bPiBpLOPAyhOjamLbpiMQP55fqtLb6L4GLxA/4pH0YEDu46UeLQf5Bmzu0ONGRxMvm531TXO4r/AKzj7vyWgzdgJ2nu44cf/kozHdmMTEL/aWP/kooKjLtvEuFPk3hyIbSbix8rDbQ0fyj81KY6OdgJO6/nQFjPP8OWoUHO9xNnKzXmP7oJV/abEuFEsND/SPzTsPaCZxEZEYDiMzYHvtV9jTeWZTrJjkCR40DSDS8P6UcZhMO2GJmG3WmhI3ecSRqHNJyOep8lVe0PbvF42xPK4g/gaS2Pp3BkfNV1py72YN1z8UwUDjnEn6cjZenu/Jd4eM3nkefXgi3HLvCiDr96oGBp8vyKmy2yYpXvlxO/6pjXboYaL5QO62Db1K92Z2YmmiM5G7GHNABvffZ/CODep8lZ8NsstZW4KbwGY9wQMwbKjbhXyNjqwRoM9QSTmSqxhonU47obXsnjQJAvpkVpOEll/waOKMHekDXZm2xmt7dFZuyy8VmcuLJlexg3mU0NBv8LQL99lAzMyhX3naDl9odRaNeN007M1dghRsTyXlx0QGwPDWAAEkkHQ5Z5nIeK7kk3gBuP8AJrvyTGzNpvjLie8CKF51neX3xRmLx0j3EtoZDQ5aIIycluoc3LiCOfNE7PdnR8a8wnJYZHxtaWsvfJ3iRvVQFaacUNE6nDqKPkK/JAy8UTWoP38Eb1jLX6e5D4jNxC4CAifFE0B49fmtK9EXZPFSSNniL2GI52QWO3m0QRxOaznAAF4sL6o7GYaBmEiOHYGMewO5uJIz3jxKDE/SL2Ffg37zQXRH2H8v9rThl4/BZ69lL7DxuEZKx0cjQ5jhRB0pYp2/wDRYMOlw1yR6ltXI3yHtge9BlOGLPxHdHogmvADUoluIiaf8ALlffNzKHDSnEj3JnaeB9W51ghgO6DzqrPnr5qMa29EH0R6PO3TjCyLG2DVRzWCHtokB26Sd6gcPikvnzC4t8Tt6NzmO/wBTSWu0qrHBJBt2EfmpXDlQWCfmFOYcgoJCErt7/emmBNS3XDJADj8Ru6rP0m13tfug905nnV/BWHtDjbArz568Fm21nEyvv2TqA2TEFzt6z0PRcRwMYyRpj9aJQA0XTmPa4FrmHw3mkcQ7ouGNqk7I4h8V8iUEbi8DG0tDfWOBAveaG04gWBnRANiQBTMuziI2vAyOrtRfAX4KwWZDu8aCxjWxNO/dXk3Ot7U5IIAdeC9kZZBqgSvC8vdTRVnRGlncPv8Akgs/o7Lf4jiDD6z1Qaz1hO7vGgWtoCxn3lsB9FmBhjPWZpKNPlN0eYaO6PcqF6Bm/vsn/ANc/1xrdJnUEGWdp9lSRSW72CaYOHdAGngomOQtc1poF3suHFaV24iY7CSPcSN0bwIF0RdX0tYmNsCyyXVTRoGjogveN2ywYR8hAa8tDXVQt2TQRXNY5jZO8QNdCeOevxVta6SbDSHdcQJI6yumi7PxHvVV2yAJeFWL8tUERtIlh3MzQG8bzNgO8tQh45RwFZH5I3ajQ6WRxsd74UKCGGFBa3dJuu8Dp8OCB3CsyFNvyUnHgidQB5C/gvcJhS0tLTuWNDmNMwjmPHE/kgGZh6y/NMYfDBzTYvvOy8yAjhK0n2x7/zXWyY/8sHq49PaKCLOxHF2oA4anJdjYTBHxU2/GRt/ED4Z6eCDxW2DowZcz9AgjDhPVPzzI4cFsHou7XPc1uEBYDbtwv3qdxLQRodT5rIJJHE24kk81YOxTnCZjme0JWbv8VivyQfRhnxA/8ASjd4SEfNibO0ZR7WFk/lfG75uCkYn2LQm1MS6MNLW2N7vVrSDCPTXh2MlaWxviMtyOY4NADgA1zhRPtU3zaVlseqvHpf2507Rmr2Yqib/J7X/7c73KmQNyJ8kHDmnTzSUjjdmPY6vaHT6pINKwEuiseDfkFUtlDda0dArLgn5BBORFNYhtNJXOGeU/MbbSDNO0rjvtI/sqFtOzK4E/3Vv7TPc2Z7c/06Kk4xxMhvmgnsJFp7/qp7/DGTRxv3ix5a9zWkWN1pA8QST5BRycM1xa57w1gc0OOYyJHFTkErnzSOgP7vG18dnMkPAdQHKxd9EFWieQb0Kie0OO9bJ0bl58fy8lKYyfciLqz0B6lVlkZca6170EnsQBtvdnlQq6e67yq7icxmFLd0NBoCrHxPzSLe51z8eCDTfQOP3yX/AOA/1sW5GisO9BjP3yUf3P9ca2zCYbcFWfNBUPSzI5uBpp9qRoPhTjR6WAsTjDgPweeqlds4SOWJwlALACTfQLB/URiyM23kKzofog52XNM2HIjckk3HADIAAnifLzVV29AWTHeyJN89dFYn7SZGN3cdV2MzXSwo3buJje9h9XluD2SeF8eKASTAiV9XTsq6htfQIf9lcx5aQB8dTwKKhI32lgIogDPPQa80ViZbk0vPl4IDoYWt8trh2BY7pn96ougeHzXPq0FYxxDbgCNbGoP1TODwsjmBouhY1pthxtTuOi7x8tU3s8U1w5PPDgTveWqBmHYlDvP9wpRLcBHHmBZ5nP3ADJE14rwAnmgr1HEymlDyGq0L0RYVj8SzuteWMc7jQdY3XHmQCVQNrj/MNdPC6H5qxdhdovhkjew0WvzHAg1vA9CEH0bFQysfeqitu7fhw8b3yPaNxpdR47oJrzpevwT2zesDu672h5cFQvTFI2LASENp8kjYwTrWbzXkyvNBguMxBkkc5xtznFzj/ALnG3H4ldQ1unlvC/BMRDU9Pick3Jp8UFn2lK10r/V+zdN8BlaSWy8MH77i5o3arevMk8x95pIP/9k=!

 

 

 

 

 

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Huston did one joyous gold dance in that film that is pretty hard for anyone to forget.

 

True, TomJH. That dance was *so* memorable!

 

I didn't realize until today that Huston was from Canda. So many actors and comedians were/are - is there a compilation of names anywhere to note this?

 

Oh, and I have a silly question - is there no film industry in Canada?

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willbe, I'm not the best one to ask about a film industry in Canada. Probably misswonderly, proud Canadian that she is, would be the one to ask.

 

Nevertheless, our national television network, the CBC, produces some television shows here, and there have also been a number of fairly celebrated Canadian films over the years, too, though I doubt that many of them ever make it to the States.

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I definitely like Cagney best of the 3, but I LOVE all those guys. They are all awesome, great actors, "regular guys", believable, etc. I love Cagney most, though, because 1- he can sing and dance, and 2- he did movies because it was a job, not because he wanted fame and fortune-- just a regular guy. Also because thought of himself as a song-and-dance man and hated being associated only with the gangster films he made, even though he was fantastic in them. I love him in the gangster films, especially of course White Heat, but my favorites of his are his lighter moments: Midsummer Night's Dream, Something to Sing About, Footlight Parade, & of course Yankee Doodle Dandy, though I think his best performance is actually Man with a Thousand Faces (tough call, though). And although Cody Jarret is such a deliciously evil part, my favorite Cagney villain is actually the Captain in Mister Roberts. "Alright. Whoooo did it? Whoooo did it?" He makes a great villain because he's so feisty and sure of himself, even though he's short, and you believe he'd do anything to anyone, anytime.

 

But then Bogie and Eddie G are also amazing and I wouldn't trade them for anyone. My fav Bogie, though I love his Oscar-winning African Queen, is probably the Maltese Falcon because he has Mary Astor figured out from the get-go. And my favorite Eddie G is definitely Double Indemnity. What a great character and what a fantatic performance,

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Cagney was the GREATEST ! Gangster film or not. My favorite gangster film is WHITE HEAT.My favorite Bogart gangster film is HIGH SIERRA. My favorite Robinson gangster film is KEY LARGO where Bogart was the good guy and topbilled. Let's not forget Paul Muni's terrific performance in a classic movie,SCARFACE. To me SCARFACE is the best of these three: LITTLE CAESAR, PUBLIC ENEMY and SCARFACE.

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>Oh, and I have a silly question - is there no film industry in Canada?

 

Well, a large percentage of "Hollywood" films are shot in Canada. Toronto is known as Hollywood Northeast, while Vancouver is known as Hollywood Northwest.

 

Most NYC neighborhoods (Moonstruck) and performance scenes (Chicago) are made in Toronto NE.

Many cable network series like excersize shows and sitcoms are made in Hollywood NW.

Both cities have strong post production, title, special effects, animation, sound (and more) studios set up that get non stop work from what we think of as Hollywood film industry.

Sadly, very little acting talent ever makes the crossover into US celebrity status (or maybe they're lucky to stay away)

 

As for the Cagney, Bogart & Robinson comparison....I have exposed TikiKid to all three stars, and Cagney is by far the standout. His broad acting style reaches a 15 year old kid not all that interested in "old b&w" movies.

She even sat through MAN OF A THOUSAND FACES because Cagney's performance made the story riveting for her.

 

Bogart and Robinson, while broad actors to adults, holds nothing to Cagney's apparent glee brought to his roles. I can't wait to show her FOOTLIGHT PARADE just for the dancing.

 

But she'd be lost with DOUBLE INDEMNITY, LITTLE CESAR or VINES/TENDER GRAPES, she just wouldn't see Robinson's brilliance, it's too subtle.

And Bogie uses too much dialogue and too little body to get across to a teen. Again, he's actually subtle compared to the Cag.

 

Cagney is so convincingly rotten in LOVE ME OR LEAVE ME, I can't watch that film a second time.

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The Fact that TTOTSM was Huston's last significant performance before he died makes it resonate even more, but I feel the film belongs to Bogart.

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It depends what you mean by "significant," finance. Huston's last performance was in The Furies, filmed in 1949, and he gives, in my opinion, a magnificent larger-than-life performance as a land baron ruling the range. It was a great final performance. But, again, who has heard of the film, compared to Treasure, you may ask. To me, though, it's definitely a significant performance.

 

Bogie is magnificent in Treasure. I'm amazed he didn't get an Oscar nomination playing Dobbs. But Bogart almost didn't take the part, I understand, because he was afraid of being over shadowed by the actor playing the showy role of Howard.

 

I think Walter Huston gives one of the great performances of all time in Treasure, and he is more than a match for Bogart.

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TikiSoo, you didn't say which of the three tough guys was your favourite.

 

{font:arial, helvetica, sans-serif}*Bogie uses too much dialogue and too little body to get across to a teen*

 

Too bad Bogart didn't text a lot of messages. Maybe the teens would "get" him then. ;) {font}

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Cagney and Robinson were very intelligent and spoke a couple of languages. Cagney was also a great artist[he made beautiful drawings and paintings]. He also played the guitar and the piano. About "Moonstruck". Most of that movie was shot in New York.

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> {quote:title=willbefree25 wrote:...}{quote}

> Both, however, were light years better than EGR in the SAAM department. As disgusting as Duryea was in Scarlet Street, I'd have to choose him over EGR. Then again, I'd dump both in favor of a dog.

Why do people here use acronyms so much? and why do I almost never know what they mean? (Don't answer that question !)

So, what on earth does "SAAM" stand for? I know when I find out I will be embarrassed that I couldn't figure it out on my own. Guess I'm acronymically challenged.

So , willbefree, could you or anyone for that matter explain to me what "SAAM" means? (hope it's nothing blush-worthy...)

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1. Robinson - the versatility and ability to totally change his characterizations from evil to good, from sympathetic to unsympathetic, from dramatic to comic.

 

2. Bogart - close on Robinson's heels. *In a Lonely Place* says it all.

 

3. Cagney - arguably my preference when he's at his best, but he has more valleys for me than Robinson and Bogart.

 

 

 

 

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Very well stated opinion here. I really like that "he has more valleys for me" comment related to Cagney.

 

 

 

 

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Sorry, missw! Oh no no no, not blush worthy.

 

I'm showing my age (whoa, it's not even on Wiki!). SAAM was used in the 1960s or 1970s, I can't remember which. It was the quotient by which we judged how 'hot' a guy was, iow:

 

SAAM = Sex Appeal, Animal Magnetism

 

Robinson has zero, Bogey and Cagney have lots, Grant is almost off the charts, and William (YMMV) is off the charts.

 

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary

 

:)

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Robinson was a very good painter too.

 

Cagney's Ragtime was filmed in New York too, and the writer lived in the town in which I wuz born.

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> {quote:title=willbefree25 wrote:}{quote}Sorry, missw! Oh no no no, not blush worthy.

>

> I'm showing my age (whoa, it's not even on Wiki!). SAAM was used in the 1960s or 1970s, I can't remember which. It was the quotient by which we judged how 'hot' a guy was, iow:

>

> *SAAM = Sex Appeal, Animal Magnetism*

>

> Robinson has zero, Bogey and Cagney have lots, Grant is almost off the charts, and William (YMMV) is off the charts.

>

> YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary

>

> :)

If all SAAM means is "Animal Magnetism", what's wrong with just saying good old-fashioned *"Kavorka"* ? Everyone knows what that means.

 

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!

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*{font:arial, helvetica, sans-serif}SAAM = Sex Appeal, Animal Magnetism{font}*

 

{font:arial, helvetica, sans-serif}*Robinson has zero, Bogey and Cagney have lots*

 

Sex appeal, of course, is all in the eye of the beholder. Yes, there are some actors or actresses that just have "it," but a lot of the time it has to do with screen image and being cast in the right role.

 

Prior to his making Casablanca, there wasn't a hint in any of his roles that Bogart could be seen as a romantic or sexy guy. That one film changed his image. That lead, in turn, to To Have and Have Not, as well as The Big Sleep (a film in which every hat check girl, book clerk or even female cabby is flirting with him). Without Casablanca, however, who knows if Bogart would have ever had the chance to be regarded by some as "sexy."

 

{font}

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Gotta say, as a straight male, for the LIFE of me I JUST don't see how any woman could think of ANY one these very talented actors as "sexy"???

 

(...ahhh, but then again, "they say" women "have always cared more about what's on the inside of guys than how us guys fall for the outside appearance"...and to which I SAY, that's okay, I'd GLADLY take JUST the OUTSIDE of Ava Gardner ANY day of the week!!!)

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Dargo, I guess it's up to the ladies on these threads to best explain what it is about any of these three less-than-conventionally-handsome actors that would appeal to them.

 

 

 

 

I can sort of understand the appeal of the young Cagney, however. During the '30s he played a tough take-charge kind of guy who, on occasion, showed vulnerability and would bring out the mother instinct in some of his leading ladies. (And, NO, I'm NOT talking about Ma Jarrett in White Heat. That's a whole different thing there).

 

 

 

 

 

But, for example, in Taxi he's plays an emotionally charged bad boy, ready to get physically rough with Loretta Young at times but he also acts emotionally vulnerable, too, even crying on her shoulder at one time in the film. And she more or less cradles him in her arms when he does that. There are a lot of women in relationships with men like that. The kind that Cagney played, I think, is very appealing to a lot of those female viewers who aren't necessarily interested in the smoother, "pretty boy" types of actors.

 

 

 

 

 

Cagney had a certain man child quality in his early years that would appeal to many women.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as Bogart is concerned, I could be right out to lunch on what I'm about to say - but, watching him, particularly in his scenes with Bacall, he comes across as a world weary cynic ready to act protective of her. There's no Jimmy Cagney "little boy" quality about him. Watching him banter with Bacall (in particular that racetrack double entendre scene in Big Sleep) he also comes across to me like something of a sophisticate. I think that a woman looking for a man-of-the-world type may find that Bogart attractive.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm doing a lot of analyzing here, though. And some of the ladies reading this might take issue with my interpretation of the appeal of those two actors. Sure as heck, it's a lot easier for me to understand the appeal to the ladies of a lot of other actors more easily than it is Cagney or Bogart.

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>I'm doing a lot of anlayzing here, though.

 

Yes Tom, indeed you were. BUT once again, I can't argue with you here 'cause I think you NAILED the reasons for Cagney and Bogie's "appeal" to some women. ;)

 

(...uh huh...in Cagney's case, some women just can't resist the "Bad Boy", and TO their very own detriment occasionally, AND in Bogie's case, "The Cynic" HAS always been able to hold the interest of intelligent people, but in MOST cases those of BOTH genders)

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For James Cagney fans, here is a link to a YouTube video of what an announcer (news reporter?) says is the surprisingly modest looking cottage, located in Stanfordville, New York, in which our Yankee Doodle Dandy died in 1986. There is also a brief glimpse of a lake beside it, which must have given Cagney a sense of peace undoubtedly lacking during his tumultuous Hollywood years.

 

The modesty of the home seems to be reflective of the modesty of the man.

 

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Tom, although I love all three of these actors, I have not till now contributed to this thread. I think it is because I like all three equally, in different ways and for different qualities, so it is difficult for me to talk about one being better than the other two, or having a favourite amongst the three.

 

Some random thoughts: Who doesn't love Cagney? And I agree with you and others here who've said that his best role, the role that shows his energy, versatility, and vulnerability, all in one character, is as Cody Jarrett in *White Heat.* He is considerably nuttier and more volatile (no pun intended -I'm thinking of the ending !) than his earlier 30s gangster characters; to me, it's like all the other gangster roles were leading up to this one.

I don't like him quite so well in *Yankee Doodle Dandy* , which a lot of people here have mentioned favourably. Funny, too, because I generally love musicals. But I'm not crazy about the songs of George M. Cohan, for one thing. For another, despite what others here have said, I don't agree that Cagney was a good singer. Dancer, ok, maybe -but even then, he's no Fred Astaire. He has his own unique, stiff-jointed style of "hoofing", and that's fine.

As for singing -if you pay attention to his numbers in *YDD*, you'll notice that he sort of sing-song/talks his way through them. A kind of rap, really. Hey, James Cagney was the first rapper !

It is charming, and he does pull it off, but it' s not actual singing, like, say Frank Sinatra. Maybe I'm not being fair to compare him to one of the greatest singers of the 20th century. It's just an example of real singing as opposed to the "chanting", for lack of a better word, that Cagney does.

(Someone else who "sang" like that was Rex Harrison in *My Fair Lady* . )

 

 

Anyway, I don't want to concentrate on the negative here.Fact is, as you've stated, Jimmy Cagney has to have been one of the most unique and talented actors who ever graced the silver screen. I love his intensity - call it "screen presence". When he's around, you have to pay attention to him. He's compelling, a ball of energy that makes you like him no matter what kind of person he's playing. (Yes, even as Cody Jarrett.)

 

Ok, that's long enough. I like the other two just as well, but this post is long enough. More on the other guys later.

 

Edited by: misswonderly on Jul 9, 2013 2:54 PM

minor spelling change

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