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RMeingast

Boycotting Woody Allen Films??

258 posts in this topic

I'm making judgements about the users here that appear so willing to boycott an artist. So I'm judging these users and questioning their judgement as it relates to boycotting. I'm just willing to admit this.

 

I didn't respond directly to those users since I don't wish to offend them. But I find some of the reasons for boycotting to be an immature response to the so called offense commited by an artist.

 

(maybe immature is too strong of a word, and petty works better in its place).

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The fact that the relationship proved lasting doesnt change the disconnect I felt at the time and the sense I felt "had" in believing in him as being more than just some director. Lord knows others in Hollywood have done worse. Like I said if something pops up on tv, ok, but I wont contribute to any box office returns. He wasnt what I thought he was. I really looked up to this guy. naivete on my part, I guess........

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# teamHibi

# teamWonderly.

 

(for life)

 

ps- THIS is a prime example of a terrific thread whose scrubbing from the boards would be a real travesty.

 

pss- and yet, that scrub seems so imminent, no?

 

psss- apparently putting the # symbol in front of something means it is formatted as a numbered item.

 

Edited by: notwanted on Mar 24, 2014 5:57 PM

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you make a good point. sorry i even brought it up.

 

woody's great films:

"sleeper" ; "take the money and run" "radio days"

 

woody's good films:

"hannah and her sisters" (although I don't get why some consider it such a masterpiece) "what's up tiger lily?" "zelig"

 

woody's films that, so sue me, underwhelm me:

"annie hall", "BULLETS OVER BROADWAY" "husbands and wives"

 

haven't seen but have heard they're good-

"crimes and misdemeanors" (really wanna see it), "The Front", "manhattan" (too creeped out, ditto "everything you wanted to know about sex...") "play it again sam." ...and most of what he's done in the last decade.

 

complete and utter dreck:

"manhattan murder mystery" "everyone says i love you" "deconstructing harry,"

 

Edited by: notwanted on Mar 24, 2014 11:58 PM

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To reiterate:

I like, no really adore Woody Allen *films,* his body of work impresses me.

Do I like him personally? No, why worry about how others conduct their lives, since we have no control over it anyway?

Aren't there far more important things (in our society) than judging an entertainer on life choices we don't agree with?

 

However, I do want to bring up MANHATTAN, where the Allen charactor is dating a young girl played by Murial Hemingway.

It's a very interesting, complicated relationship and in the end he drifts towards a more mature woman and encourages the girl to go away to college to "expand" herself.

The "girl" nails his weaknesses in a closing speech to him, showing us how really mature, intelligent & strong this young gal is. It also shows us how immature and weak HE is, much better than his friends ridicule arguments earlier in the film.

 

I love this movie, the dialogue and the way the charactors feelings are laid bare for us to see. I really like movies where we are shown several different points of view of a sordid situation.

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notwanted, THE FRONT is NOT a Woody Allen film in the sense of others in his career, inasmuch as, to the best of my knowledge, his sole contribution to the film was as an actor. Martin Ritt was director and Walter Bernstein is listed as writer.

 

Having said that, I can't think of any of Woody's own films in which he was ever better as an actor, very effectively cast as a front for a blacklisted writer. It takes a while for Woody's character to understand the devastating human toil that the blacklist is having on the lives of others (actors, of course, even more than writers).

 

As a fan of Woody, I wish that I could say that THE FRONT is an Allen film. With the possible exception of Crimes and Misdemeanors, I can't think of any Allen film that had quite the same emotional impact for me as this production.

 

A special mention should also be made, of course, to the memorable performance of Zero Mostel, a '50s victim of the blacklist himself, here playing blacklisted comic Hecky Brown.

 

The film, initially rather light in tone, darkens as it reaches its climax, and Woody's character has a great moment at the end. THE FRONT is a damning indictment of the blacklist that engulfed the entertainment industry during the politically oppressive '50s. True Allen film or not, this film should not be missed.

 

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!

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yes, i should've specified that "the front" was a Martin Ritt joint, I was just trying to be as fair a critic as possible to let people know what works of Woody's (inh any sense) I'd seen and what I haven't.

 

it is a film often cited as the one where he does his best acting, veering from the neurotic schtick (although said neurotic schtick did get him an Oscar nomination for Best Actor in "Annie Hall.")

 

I think maybe he did not direct "Play it Again, Sam" either- just appeared as an actor in it.

 

in the book "alternate oscars"- which is terrific- author danny peary argues Allen should've won Best Actor for "play it again sam" and possibly "the front" too.

 

Edited by: notwanted on Mar 25, 2014 9:02 AM

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>i should've specified that "the front" was a Martin Ritt _*joint*_

 

Please keep that crap on the Spike Lee board

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What crap?

 

"Joint" is one of those all-purpose slang words that seems to have many meanings. It can just mean "thing".

 

And anyway, almost all the Spike Lee movies I've seen have been really good.

What's your problem?

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>THE FRONT is NOT a Woody Allen film in the sense of others in his career, inasmuch as, to the best of my knowledge, his sole contribution to the film was as an actor.

 

I agree. SCENES FROM A MALL is another one. He writes and directs 95% of the movies he appears in-- but occasionally, there is an exception.

 

In fact, that would be a fun theme for an evening of TCM programming: 'Woody Allen Films Not Written or Directed by Woody Allen.'

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>What's your problem?

 

It may be that he is a bit snappish because of a persection complex, MissW.

 

Any "wanted man" like Richard Kimble may also be a little envious of someone who is notwanted.

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Here's where I'm confused....If we discuss a movie that Barbara Stanwyck acted in, we consider it a "Barbara Stanwyck movie", even though she DIDN'T write, produce or direct it. But for some reason, we're not giving the same consideration to Woody Allen. Splitting hairs, it would be fair to say THE FRONT is indeed a Woody Allen movie, by the same criteria we give that credit to Ms. Stanwyck. Dont you think?

 

Or...DON'T you? (Sorry. Couldn't resist that old "Mr. Chatterbox" line.)

 

Sepiatone

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Well, there's an obvious explanation for that.

 

Woody Allen is known primarily as a director. While he has acted in many films (but most of them his own works), he has directed even more.

 

Barbara Stanwyck is known primarily as an actress. (ok, "actor".) I don't know if she directed any movies.

 

So, depending on what talent the individual is mostly associated with, that's the deciding factor in whether it will be named after them.

Very clumsy sentence, sorry...let me rephrase:

 

Since Woody Allen is a film director, first and foemost, the films he's directed will be referred to as "Woody Allen" films. He is not famous for his acting.

Since Barbara Stanwyck is famous for her acting, any film she acts in will be known as a "Barbara Stanwyck" film.

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I think your distinction is a good one, but since Woody Allen is by far the most recognizable name associated with The Front, most of us think of it as a "Woody Allen" movie, even if strictly speaking that's not the case. Even today, Woody Allen remains a household name among moviegoers, whereas it's likely that few people outside the TCM orbit would have any idea who Martin Ritt was.

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I agree Missw.

 

And unless Allen was uncredited for contributions to the screenplays or the direction of the films he mainly acted in, then his authorship of those motion pictures is much more limited. Stanwyck's authorship or 'ownership' of the films she appeared in is somewhat limited, too. It probably is erroneous to call the films she acted in, as 'Barbara Stanwyck films.' She was not in every scene, and she did not produce, write or direct them like Ida Lupino did with some films, so it is maybe more accurate to call them 'films starring Barbara Stanwyck.'

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I'll try to remember that. So when someone posts that he/she likes "John Wayne movies", I should take it to mean that they really just like THE ALAMO.

 

Sepiatone

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Well, John Wayne is a whole other situation, because after Batjac was formed, he called the shots on his pictures as producer. If we want to apply the auteur theory here, it would work because Wayne has considerable authorship when it comes to his post-1950s movies.

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I identify 'The Front' as a Woody Allen movie. I also identify it as a Martin Ritt movie. I also identify it as a Michael Murphy movie. It all depends on which person I'm considering when I reference the movie.

 

I also identify 'Annie Hall' as a Woody Allen movie - just one in which he wrote and directed as well as acted.

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Well TB, I gotta admit you ALMOST wiggled your way out'a that one, anyway! ;) LOL

 

(...as I believe Sepia's point was well grounded...though I think the discussion had veered toward the semantics of it all here)

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Well, yeah, I did try awfully hard, didn't I Dargo?!

 

You are right, of course, that we are getting into semantics. But the reason I was pursuing some of this here is because I do think there is a political correctness that can be applied to film authorship. If you only knew how much wrangling goes on at the Writers Guild about authorship. There are screenwriters, young and old, who would bristle at the notion that their film is seen as some movie star's film.

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Well, John Wayne is a whole other situation, because after Batjac was formed, he called the shots on his pictures as producer. If we want to apply the auteur theory here, it would work because Wayne has considerable authorship when it comes to his post-1950s movies.

 

That's the understatement of the year. To quote the review in today's New York Times of The Duke's new biography:

 

John Wayne put it more simply: ?I?ve found the character the average man wants himself, his brother or his kid to be,? he said. ?It?s the same type of guy the average wife wants for her husband. Always walk with your head held high. Look everybody straight in the eye. Never double-cross a pal.? Later in his career, he would turn down roles ? like that of the conniving and corrupt Willie Stark in ?All the King?s Men? ? that violated his belief system. ?He intended to play only men,? says Scott Eyman, the author of a new biography of Wayne, who ?mirrored his own beliefs, his own values, either partially or completely.?

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/25/books/john-wayne-the-life-and-legend-explains-a-stars-power.html

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I remember being absolutely delighted, enchanted, with *Annie Hall*, the first time I saw it.

I'd just graduated from high school, and me and a few friends went to see it, early summer.

We were all simply agog, we'd never seen anything like it.

Whether you like the film or not, whether you like Woody Allen or not, you have to credit Allen for his dazzling display of imagination in *Annie Hall*.

I mean, he thought of doing things I'd never seen done in film before - or since, for that matter.

You can argue that these things were just gimmicks, cheap shots, but I thought they were incredibly inventive and funny. Still do.

 

A few examples:

the scene I already mentioned earlier on this thread, where Alvy and Annie are waiting in line for a movie and some pompous loud fake hipster is shown up for the poseur he is when Alvy pulls Marshall McLuhan out from behind a fern. Hilarious and extremely gratifying !

 

The cartoon bit, where Annie mentions she's getting her period, and Alvy imagines a conversation with the wicked queen from *Snow White* arguing with him, and pointing out "I don't get periods ! I'm a cartoon !" And what you see onscreen is an actual cartoon.

 

The unforgettable and truly funny scene where Alvy and Annie are getting to know each other, they're hanging out on Woody's balcony and sipping white wine (this is the '70s). Allen the director does something so clever and original, he gives us each character's inner thoughts about what's going on with voice-overs. So true-to-life, too, revealing each one's insecurities and hopes that this new friendship will work out.

 

MAIN_SHOT_SAVE.jpg

"God, what a great-looking girl. Wonder what she looks like with no clothes on?"

"I hope he's not a jerk like all the others..."

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