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TCM and Other Sources for Classic Film

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The question must be asked and I, an aging couch potato slash space cadet will ask it. Is Me TV better than TCM where the sci-fi/horror genres are concerned? I say yes.

 

Well here is an idea:

 

Why don't you go to the monthly schedule and count how many sci-fi and horror films are being shown on TCM for July or September since August is SUTS month and you will probably get your answer. Oh wait. I forgot you are a couch potato which probably means you can't get off the couch long enough to perform some basic research, right?

 

That is the problem around here. Everyone seems to have an opinion about something and that whatever their opinion is usually indicates that they are using their opinion as a fact. When in reality it is an opinion only.

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The question must be asked and I, an aging couch potato slash space cadet will ask it. Is Me TV better than TCM where the sci-fi/horror genres are concerned? I say yes. Consider this. Next week Svengoolie of Me TV will be showing Creature From The Black Lagoon just as tcm has many, many, many times already these past few years. But here's the thing, Me TV is following up with both Gill-Man sequels, Revenge of the Creature and The Creature Walks Among Us. When was the last time tcm aired those two Creature follow-ups? I can't remember. 

In my opinion the TCM business model is flawed. These are the kinds of films (even with commercials) that bring new viewers to classic film. Some of these titles should be included in the Essentials and Essentials Jr. programs. 

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Well here is an idea:

 

Why don't you go to the monthly schedule and count how many sci-fi and horror films are being shown on TCM for July or September since August is SUTS month and you will probably get your answer. Oh wait. I forgot you are a couch potato which probably means you can't get off the couch long enough to perform some basic research, right?

 

That is the problem around here. Everyone seems to have an opinion about something and that whatever their opinion is usually indicates that they are using their opinion as a fact. When in reality it is an opinion only.

I think the tone of this message is a bit too negative. For those that read the Science Fiction board in the genres forum, it has already been discussed how infrequently TCM airs classic sci-fi.

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Top wrote: I think the tone of this message is a bit too negative. For those that read the Science Fiction board in the genres forum, it has already been discussed how infrequently TCM airs classic sci-fi.

Well fine. But please don’t write that what I have written is too negative.

 

I am just writing what some long-time posters around here already think. There are some posters here who do come on the message boards with their opinions being bandied about as if they were facts.

Message Boards are meant to be a basis for conversations. Now some conversations end up running well "off -the-tracks" and some end up being discussed indefinitely, and then there are some that end up becoming unruly. That is the nature of message boards everywhere.

 

I like to think that when people come on here to discuss films that they can at least bring intelligent and coherent information instead of just their often disguised opinions they present as facts.

You can have opinions, that is great!!! Bring them on. I love to read opinions.

But if you are going to sit here and rattle off opinions based on long held beliefs and then masquerade those opinions as facts, something is just not right.

I get tired of having to go in almost every other month to see just how many movies are being shown on TCM’s schedule that were made prior to 1960 just so I can be sure that I am representing FACTS not opinions. For once it would be nice for the deniers around here to get off their collective butts and do some of the research themselves. But they don’t.

Instead of reacting in someway to my research what do they do? They clamour up until another month goes by and when they see four consecutive nights of programming featuring post 1960 or 1970 films, what do they do? They start ranting all over again.

 

But that is the nature of the message boards these days.

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We need more genre entries shown around here. Yesterday it was Attack of the 50 Foot woman. The only exciting part is the end when she tears up Tony's to get her mitt on Harry. :)

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Lets talk about it here then. :D

While Science Fiction is not my favorite genre, I consider it a very important style of storytelling. This genre helps us look at modern issues by setting them in the far-off future (the opposite of the western which often looks at modern issues in the far-distant past). Sometimes we're too close to issues that trouble society, and it makes it easier to digest if the story/lesson/moral is told as an allegory in another time period.

 

There is no reason for science fiction to be the ill-begotten stepchild of TCM programming. More of it should be broadcast in my opinion.

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While Science Fiction is not my favorite genre, I consider it a very important style of storytelling. This genre helps us look at modern issues by setting them in the far-off future (the opposite of the western which often looks at modern issues in the far-distant past).

 

There is no reason for science fiction to be the ill-begotten stepchild of TCM programming. More of it should be broadcast in my opinion.

 

Ok,  I see you feel that TCM should show more movies from the science genre.     That is specific programming advise that is easy to understand.

 

But how does that relate to your comment of:  TCM business model is flawed.

 

I'm just trying to understand what specific changes you would make to their business model.    e.g.  more movies from one genre mean less from another.    

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Perhaps TCM doesn't air the classic sci-fi films as often because many of them weren't produced by the major studios (which I think are the film libraries that TCM has the greatest access to), so it's harder for them to acquire the rights to air those films.  For example, weren't a lot of the Boris Karloff, Bela Lugosi and Lon Chaney movies produced by Universal?  Weren't a lot of the corny 1950s sci-fi movies produced by independent studios?  

 

I'm not sure, I'm not the biggest sci-fi aficionado and expert, just venturing a guess. 

 

I really hope they can air some more terrible 1950s sci-fi films, along the same vein as The Attack of the 50 Foot Woman.  I love those movies.

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Top wrote: I think the tone of this message is a bit too negative. For those that read the Science Fiction board in the genres forum, it has already been discussed how infrequently TCM airs classic sci-fi.

 

Well fine. But please don’t write that what I have written is too negative.

 

I am just writing what some long-time posters around here already think. There are some posters here who do come on the message boards with their opinions being bandied about as if they were facts.

 

Message Boards are meant to be a basis for conversations. Now some conversations end up running well "off -the-tracks" and some end up being discussed indefinitely, and then there are some that end up becoming unruly. That is the nature of message boards everywhere.

 

I like to think that when people come on here to discuss films that they can at least bring intelligent and coherent information instead of just their often disguised opinions they present as facts.

 

You can have opinions, that is great!!! Bring them on. I love to read opinions.

 

But if you are going to sit here and rattle off opinions based on long held beliefs and then masquerade those opinions as facts, something is just not right.

 

I get tired of having to go in almost every other month to see just how many movies are being shown on TCM’s schedule that were made prior to 1960 just so I can be sure that I am representing FACTS not opinions. For once it would be nice for the deniers around here to get off their collective butts and do some of the research themselves. But they don’t.

 

Instead of reacting in someway to my research what do they do? They clamour up until another month goes by and when they see four consecutive nights of programming featuring post 1960 or 1970 films, what do they do? They start ranting all over again.

 

But that is the nature of the message boards these days.

What opinions? Tcm has shown Creature From The Black Lagoon multiple, multiple times but it hasn't dawned on them at all to show the two sequels? Tonite they are showing Jason and the Argonauts one of their often repeated beloved chestnuts. I like it. Talos going after them on account of a broach pin. :lol:  And Hercules? He's suppose to be a son of Zeus. How dare Talos begrudge a son of Zeus a broach pin. Screwy mythology there.  :D

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Ok,  I see you feel that TCM should show more movies from the science genre.     That is specific programming advise that is easy to understand.

 

But how does that relate to your comment of:  TCM business model is flawed.

 

I'm just trying to understand what specific changes you would make to their business model.    e.g.  more movies from one genre mean less from another.    

I did add another line or two to the post that you quoted-- though the point remains the same.

 

My comment about the business model is that I think they are getting a bit too high brow with some of their Essentials choices. If they want to attract a more diverse audience (younger audiences, lower-middle class audiences, less educated audiences, people who have never traveled abroad and do not care to travel abroad) then they should include some essentials that do not shout pedigree and stuffiness.

 

But even if they want to keep the Citizen Kanes of Hollywood and the occasional Eurocinema, they can easily cut back on the overplayed titles like VIRGINIA WOOLF as an Essential and throw one or two classic (and essential) sci-fi titles into the mix that appeal to the drive-in movie theatre crowd.

 

I know this comment is going to be misconstrued by people but I am willing (eager) to press the 'Post' button. LOL

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What opinions? Tcm has shown Creature From The Black Lagoon multiple, multiple times    :D

Yes, but not the sequels. I think Nipkow is stating that ME-TV is devoted to Universal franchises, whereas to him/her TCM is showing the token Universal classic once every blue moon. It is obvious if you study the schedules.

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I did add another line or two to the post that you quoted-- though the point remains the same.

 

My comment about the business model is that I think they are getting a bit too high brow with some of their Essentials choices. If they want to attract a more diverse audience (younger audiences, lower-middle class audiences, less educated audiences, people who have never traveled abroad and do not care to travel abroad) then they should include some essentials that do not shout pedigree and stuffiness.

 

But even if they want to keep the Citizen Kanes of Hollywood and the occasional Eurocinema, they can easily cut back on the overplayed titles like VIRGINIA WOOLF as an Essential and throw one or two classic (and essential) sci-fi titles into the mix that appeal to the drive-in movie theatre crowd.

 

I know this comment is going to be misconstrued by people but I am willing (eager) to press the 'Post' button. LOL

Very well said! Too much hoy-faloy high-brow stuff like that there frenchy cinema verite stuff. I love that there eurocinema like Mission Stardust with Essy Perrson.  :)

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I did add another line or two to the post that you quoted-- though the point remains the same.

 

My comment about the business model is that I think they are getting a bit too high brow with some of their Essentials choices. If they want to attract a more diverse audience (younger audiences, lower-middle class audiences, less educated audiences, people who have never traveled abroad and do not care to travel abroad) then they should include some essentials that do not shout pedigree and stuffiness.

 

But even if they want to keep the Citizen Kanes of Hollywood and the occasional Eurocinema, they can easily cut back on the overplayed titles like VIRGINIA WOOLF as an Essential and throw one or two classic (and essential) sci-fi titles into the mix that appeal to the drive-in movie theatre crowd.

 

I know this comment is going to be misconstrued by people but I am willing (eager) to press the 'Post' button. LOL

 

Ok,  that all makes sense.    I'm not a fan of Essentials (mainly I feel it has run its course),   and less overplayed titles and more premieres would be great  (and something I assume most at this forum support,  but hey,   one never knows around here!).

 

As for the access to movies 'issue' that was raised buy another poster;   While access to movies from some sources (e.g. independent studios,  producers,  studios like Universal,  etc..)  can be more difficult than studios like WB\MGM\RKO my point is that I want TCM to do more,  period,  in this regard.   

 

i.e. OK,  it is more difficult to get access.   I get that;  That just means TCM needs to do more to get access. 

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Ok,  that all makes sense.    I'm not a fan of Essentials (mainly I feel it has run its course),   and less overplayed titles and more premieres would be great  (and something I assume most at this forum support,  but hey,   one never knows around here!).

 

As for the access to movies 'issue' that was raised buy another poster;   While access to movies from some sources (e.g. independent studios,  producers,  studios like Universal,  etc..)  can be more difficult than studios like WB\MGM\RKO my point is that I want TCM to do more,  period,  in this regard.   

 

i.e. OK,  it is more difficult to get access.   I get that;  That just means TCM needs to do more to get access. 

Yeah, they've been very good at accessing Creature From The Black Lagoon. :D

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"noun: business model;

a design for the successful operation of a business, identifying revenue sources, customer base, products, and details of financing."

 

-so again, just HOW is TCM's business model flawed??

and just what happened to the 'News' thread started yesterday that was to generate 10,000 VIEWS??

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"noun: business model;
a design for the successful operation of a business, identifying revenue sources, customer base, products, and details of financing."
 
-so again, just HOW is TCM's business model flawed??

 

It's not as successful as it could be, because there are audiences/demographics they are not reaching. You can go back and read the previous posts in the thread where we have given examples of this.

 

I do not think we needed a definition. Most of us have access to dictionary dot com. LOL

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It's not as successful as it could be, because there are audiences/demographics they are not reaching. You can go back and read the previous posts in the thread where we have given examples of this.

 

I do not think we needed a definition. Most of us have access to dictionary dot com. LOL

Yeah! Just who does tcm think their customer base is? The Cannes judging committee?  :lol:

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It's not as successful as it could be, because there are audiences/demographics they are not reaching. You can go back and read the previous posts in the thread where we have given examples of this.

 

I do not think we needed a definition. Most of us have access to dictionary dot com. LOL

 

How do you know that TCM is NOT reaching the audiences/demographics they are not reaching?

 

What basis of knowledge do you have access to that would cause you to write this?

 

Every post made by someone who comments on the audience/demographics that TCM has is using pure conjecture.

 

And since TCM does not subscribe to the Nielsen Rating Services we may never know.

 

The only thing we know for sure is that TCM is offered as part of certain cable packages throughout the United States and that TCM is then available in a certain amount of homes.

 

I think I read somewhere once that TCM is available in 98 million households. That is a lot as far as I am concerned. Now as far as commenting on TCM's business model it bears repeating here once again:

 

From Vice President of Programming at TCM, Charlie Tabesh:

 

"Almost all of our revenue comes from our cable/satellite affiliates. As you suggest, that's very rare in the television world. As most people know, what seems to happen is that a channel starts out with a niche (A&E, AMC, Bravo, etc.), then once they have a certain level of distribution, they become much broader in order to attract more ad dollars. With AMC, once they added advertising it really dictated that they change their programming in order to attract audiences that advertisers wanted.

 

But one consequence of them doing that was that their loyal viewers were pretty upset, which led to a long period where a lot of people feared TCM would do the same thing - there were never any plans to do that on our end, but I actually think the outcry over AMC made us more committed than ever to keep it that way. The truth is there's just no way to do a lot of the programming that we do if the business model is based in any significant way on advertising (which makes it much more fun for us as programmers).

 

I don't think I explained that very well, but the end result is that being commercial-free makes our brand stronger; it also means we can take more chances and do things that we consider interesting and important, rather than trying to attract advertiser-friendly audiences. And playing films uncut and in their original aspect ratios also helps us establish ourselves as a network that truly cares about these films and their history (which we genuinely do).

 

Our business isn't at big as many of the ad-supported networks out there, so our budgets are smaller, but I think we do pretty well with what we have. As for the interstitial pieces, promos, introductions, website, they're all done at the network and they're consistently fantastic - they're essential to our brand and people that create them care deeply about the films and are extremely creative. And, of course, Robert Osborne is the most important of all, we're very lucky to have him."

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What opinions? Tcm has shown Creature From The Black Lagoon multiple, multiple times but it hasn't dawned on them at all to show the two sequels? Tonite they are showing Jason and the Argonauts one of their often repeated beloved chestnuts. I like it. Talos going after them on account of a broach pin. :lol:  And Hercules? He's suppose to be a son of Zeus. How dare Talos begrudge a son of Zeus a broach pin. Screwy mythology there.  :D

 

You know, no one is forcing you to watch TCM.

 

So why sit here and complain about titles TCM never shows? Have you ever written to TCM to ask them why they don't program certain titles? Apparently not.

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It's not as successful as it could be, because there are audiences/demographics they are not reaching. You can go back and read the previous posts in the thread where we have given examples of this.

 

I do not think we needed a definition. Most of us have access to dictionary dot com. LOL

 

Of course there are audiences/demographics that TCM isn't reaching.     To me the question is;  how can TCM expand its audience?

 

Reaching out to certain demographics could result in a net reducion of their overall audience.    

 

Look at the post by Primos and Fred;    They claim to watch TCM a lot less since TCM has changed too much.   

 

While I know what changes in TCM's programming I would like,  I have no idea if those changes would expand TCM's audience.   

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"noun: business model;

a design for the successful operation of a business, identifying revenue sources, customer base, products, and details of financing."

 

-so again, just HOW is TCM's business model flawed??

and just what happened to the 'News' thread started yesterday that was to generate 10,000 VIEWS??

Well, with the Charles Tabesh comments re. TCMs business model, then the only way it would make better sense business wise, and bring in new viewers,.and make more revenue, is to start selling advertising. I don't think anyone here seriously wants that.

 

What DID happen to TBs new News thread? I wanted to see how far.along on it's goal of 10,000 views this new "controversial" thread was. Plus, what the topic was to be, other than a curtailment of activity here.

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Well, with the Charles Tabesh comments re. TCMs business model, then the only way it would make better sense business wise, and bring in new viewers,.and make more revenue, is to start selling advertising. I don't think anyone here seriously wants that.

 

What DID happen to TBs new News thread? I wanted to see how far.along on it's goal of 10,000 views this new "controversial" thread was. Plus, what the topic was to be, other than a curtailment of activity here.

 

Yes, I wondered the same thing. He is very keen on which threads need winding down. I also find it interesting that the moment one starts asking questions of him, he along with some others depart.

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Yeah! Just who does tcm think their customer base is? The Cannes judging committee?

 

Well, if you go by the the actual number of films TCM shows in the respective genres, the actual customer base appears to consist of World War II veterans, aging cowboys, and singing tap dancers. :)  In many weeks you can count the number of foreign movies on one hand.

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What DID happen to TBs new News thread? I wanted to see how far.along on it's goal of 10,000 views this new "controversial" thread was. Plus, what the topic was to be, other than a curtailment of activity here.

Hi Arturo...

 

The thread still exists on a Word file I created. As it was happening 'live,' I was saving my posts and the posts of others. Most of my current topics show up in various other threads. Thanks for your interest.

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Well, with the Charles Tabesh comments re. TCMs business model, then the only way it would make better sense business wise, and bring in new viewers,.and make more revenue, is to start selling advertising. I don't think anyone here seriously wants that.

 

What DID happen to TBs new News thread? I wanted to see how far.along on it's goal of 10,000 views this new "controversial" thread was. Plus, what the topic was to be, other than a curtailment of activity here.

I definitely don't want to see TCM add commercials-- the lack of advertising is what makes TCM so much better than their competitors.  AMC I don't believe is a threat any more, they've strayed so far from American Movie Classics that I don't even think of watching a movie on that channel.  They take a 2 hour movie and make it last 3 hours.  Then, they air the same movie like 3 times IN A ROW.  One day they were showing all The Godfather movies in a row.  With all the commercials, it probably took all weekend to get through.  I remember when I was little, they used to show Marx Brothers movies on New Years Eve.  They used to show the Laurel and Hardy shorts Saturday morning.  Three Stooges was also aired recently.  Not any more.  I digress... I do not want to see TCM go by the way side.

 

I don't think ME-TV, Antenna TV and other channels of that ilk really provide any real competition to TCM.  Sure, ME-TV might be airing Plan 9 From Outer Space or something and TCM might be showing Apocalypse Now and ME-TV might "win" the timeslot; but that would only be for that particular time.  The offerings on those channels and the ones on TCM vary drastically that I don't think the smaller channels would end up causing TCM to go under or radically change their format.  ME-TV and Antenna TV I believe provide a replacement for channels like TVLand and Nick and Nite that went down the s---er (my censoring).  Personally, when I had those channels (I don't anymore, they're not on DISH) I used to watch it for reruns of old Nick at Nite shows that I loved when I was little. 

 

I've refrained from participating in this thread because it had derailed to a conversation I didn't want to participate in; however, now that it seems to be back on track, I wanted to put forth my opinion. 

 

Personally, for me, TCM more than gives me my money's worth and I'm satisfied with their scheduling.  Like I've stated on other threads, I don't watch the channel 24/7 and rarely watch it live.  Most of the programming I watch is stuff that I've recorded.  I also didn't have the channel for many years so I haven't been watching 20 years worth of programming.  Perhaps the issue isn't entirely with TCM, perhaps part of people's dissatisfaction with the channel is purely due to oversaturation--so much TCM has been watched that it can't impress anymore.  Just my opinion.

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