Bogie56

HITS & MISSES: Yesterday, Today & Tomorrow on TCM

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15 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

I like Lolita a lot, although I think it's one of Kubrick's most conventional films. Yeah, 2001: A Space Odyssey is usually ranked at the top, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone list Barry Lyndon as his best. Paths of GloryDr. Strangelove, and even A Clockwork Orange I've seen people list as their favorites/"the best". 

I'll admit that I am not a fan of Kubrick's.  I honestly find his films to be boring. The Shining does nothing for me. I've had to sit through the damn thing three times--each time having to watch it with friends as part of Halloween programming. The only thing I like about the film are the exterior shots of the Timberline Lodge on Mt. Hood near Portland. I can say: "I've been there!" 

I actually did like Lolita. I thought James Mason, Sue Lyons and Shelley Winters were fantastic.  I did not like Peter Sellers, only because he gets on my last nerve in every film of his I've seen him in. The Lolita story by Vladmir Nabokov is disturbing in that we have Humbert Humbert (I am curious about his name. Why the same first and last name?), a middle aged man, pursuing a very young teenage girl i.e. a "nymphet." This fascination gives the story very much a predator/pedophile vibe.  However, when you understand the reason why Humbert Humbert is fascinated with Lolita, it makes more sense. It doesn't make it less unsettling, but at least it provides some back story about why Humbert Humbert likes Lolita.

I do try to give Kubrick a chance, I think I have Barry Lyndon and The Killing recorded. 

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1 minute ago, speedracer5 said:

I'll admit that I am not a fan of Kubrick's.  I honestly find his films to be boring. The Shining does nothing for me. I've had to sit through the damn thing three times--each time having to watch it with friends as part of Halloween programming. The only thing I like about the film are the exterior shots of the Timberline Lodge on Mt. Hood near Portland. I can say: "I've been there!" 

I actually did like Lolita. I thought James Mason, Sue Lyons and Shelley Winters were fantastic.  I did not like Peter Sellers, only because he gets on my last nerve in every film of his I've seen him in. The Lolita story by Vladmir Nabokov is disturbing in that we have Humbert Humbert (I am curious about his name. Why the same first and last name?), a middle aged man, pursuing a very young teenage girl i.e. a "nymphet." This fascination gives the story very much a predator/pedophile vibe.  However, when you understand the reason why Humbert Humbert is fascinated with Lolita, it makes more sense. It doesn't make it less unsettling, but at least it provides some back story about why Humbert Humbert likes Lolita.

I do try to give Kubrick a chance, I think I have Barry Lyndon and The Killing recorded. 

I'll be curious to read your reaction to Barry Lyndon. If you found The Shining dull, then Barry Lyndon should be torturous. Kubrick is my favorite director, and yet I still thought Barry Lyndon was a monumental chore to sit through the first time I saw it. My estimation has grown since then, but I'd still rank it near dead last among his films. Others find it much better than I, though.

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7 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

I'll be curious to read your reaction to Barry Lyndon. If you found The Shining dull, then Barry Lyndon should be torturous. Kubrick is my favorite director, and yet I still thought Barry Lyndon was a monumental chore to sit through the first time I saw it. My estimation has grown since then, but I'd still rank it near dead last among his films. Others find it much better than I, though.

Lol. Maybe I'll have to brew up a lot of coffee to get through it. Barry Lyndon is also insanely long. I'll probably have to watch it in chunks. 

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Kubrick is one of the most overrated of directors, in my opinion. His films are so cold, there's little emotional involvement for me. 2001 is an absolute bore for me, particularly in its baffling final half hour.

Having said that I like his films up to Dr. Strangelove, regard Paths of Glory as one of the great anti-war films and Spartacus as the best of the big scale costume epics of the late '50s and early '60s. And, yes, I very much like Lolita, with one of the great performances of James Mason's career.

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33 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

I actually did like Lolita. I thought James Mason, Sue Lyons and Shelley Winters were fantastic.  I did not like Peter Sellers, only because he gets on my last nerve in every film of his I've seen him in. The Lolita story by Vladmir Nabokov is disturbing in that we have Humbert Humbert (I am curious about his name. Why the same first and last name?), a middle aged man, pursuing a very young teenage girl i.e. a "nymphet." This fascination gives the story very much a predator/pedophile vibe.  However, when you understand the reason why Humbert Humbert is fascinated with Lolita, it makes more sense. It doesn't make it less unsettling, but at least it provides some back story about why Humbert Humbert likes Lolita.

In the book, he is given more of a backstory. Iirc he is named after a father or something. One thing they left out is that he had a wife who ran away with a Russian taxi driver and they are experimented on by doctors and forced to walk on all fours for money. :lol: That would have been funny to see in the film.

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1 hour ago, speedracer5 said:

I'll admit that I am not a fan of Kubrick's.  I honestly find his films to be boring. The Shining does nothing for me. I've had to sit through the damn thing three times--each time having to watch it with friends as part of Halloween programming. The only thing I like about the film are the exterior shots of the Timberline Lodge on Mt. Hood near Portland. I can say: "I've been there!" 

I actually did like Lolita. I thought James Mason, Sue Lyons and Shelley Winters were fantastic.  I did not like Peter Sellers, only because he gets on my last nerve in every film of his I've seen him in. The Lolita story by Vladmir Nabokov is disturbing in that we have Humbert Humbert (I am curious about his name. Why the same first and last name?), a middle aged man, pursuing a very young teenage girl i.e. a "nymphet." This fascination gives the story very much a predator/pedophile vibe.  However, when you understand the reason why Humbert Humbert is fascinated with Lolita, it makes more sense. It doesn't make it less unsettling, but at least it provides some back story about why Humbert Humbert likes Lolita.

I do try to give Kubrick a chance, I think I have Barry Lyndon and The Killing recorded. 

Do watch The Killing, which gets my vote as Kubrick's best film. It's a classic film noir with such a great supporting cast. I'm pretty much in agreement with TomJH about Kubrick's best films. Barry Lyndon is pretty to look at, has some great music on the soundtrack which basically has nothing to do with the film, and if you're having trouble sleeping . . . .

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19 minutes ago, kingrat said:

and if you're having trouble sleeping . . . .

. . . try Christopher Columbus. :lol:

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Now hear this! Now hear this! Our last date night 2NIGHT w/ Sir #SidneyPoitier on

gives us another set of MUST WATCHES:

THE ORGANIZATION

BROTHER JOHN

THEY CALL MISTER TIBBS!

A WARM DECEMBER

But, don't sleep on BUCK & THE PREACHER ('72), my BUTCH CASSIDY & THE SUNDANCE KID!

======================================

-didn;t care for "...December' (WAY too sappy)

but recording top 2

& "Buck..." is pretty good too

;)

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On 9/22/2019 at 8:36 PM, kingrat said:

Do watch The Killing, which gets my vote as Kubrick's best film. It's a classic film noir with such a great supporting cast. 

Counterpoint: THE KILLING is well put together, But it falls completely to pieces at the end and is nowhere near as good as the book which is quite different and even darker and more nihilistic.

2 out of 4 stars. 

Now let’s all start fighting over Kubrick.

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Tonight at 10- I have mixed feelings on the films of Robert Altman, I don’t like Elliot Gould as an actor and THE LONG GOODBYE Is the only novel of Raymond Chandler’s that I found disappointing.

That said, THE LONG GOODBYE (1973) Is one of the best films of the 1970s and I *really highly* recommend it.

A pretty unique adaptation.

 

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On 9/22/2019 at 6:55 PM, speedracer5 said:

 The Lolita story by Vladmir Nabokov is disturbing in that we have Humbert Humbert (I am curious about his name. Why the same first and last name?), a middle aged man, pursuing a very young teenage girl i.e. a "nymphet." This fascination gives the story very much a predator/pedophile vibe.  However, when you understand the reason why Humbert Humbert is fascinated with Lolita, it makes more sense. It doesn't make it less unsettling, but at least it provides some back story about why Humbert Humbert likes Lolita.

 

 

it has something to do with Russian Naming Culture- I forget the specifics, but some(?) Russians make male first names a variation on the father's family names, and some last names translate to "son of" ie "DAVIDOVITCH = SON OF DAVID".) HUMBERt HUMBERT is a play on that sort of confusing nomenclature, which would appeal to a cryptic and slightly ludicrous writer like NABOKOV (i mean that as a compliment).

LOLITA is to NABOKOV'S full body of work as HAMLET is to SHAKESPEARE'S- It's the one they FORCE YOU TO READ in college, but to be honest, "meh."

NABOKOV is a bit like another writer I admire greatly, CHARLES DICKENS in that both are A+ writers and B+ storytellers- sometimes the tale they are telling is no great shakes, but oh, HOW THEY TELL IT!

of his non-LOLITA books- I would recommend PNIN- which is an English Language novel of his about a Russian expat college professor and is very charming and personal and funny or THE DEFENSE (aka THE LUZHIN (sp?) DEFENSE), which is about a RUSSIAN CHESS PRODIGY who unspools as an adult and starts seeing the world as a giant chess game and only moves accordingly- ie diagonally when it's time to "be the bishop" or two steps forward and to the side when it's time to "move the Knight." it's pretty funny, especially if you like Chess

LOLITA is- in all honesty- not a book about an affair between a middle aged man and a too young girl- i mean, that happens in it, but it is NOT what the book is about. It is about a writer (Nabokov) creating a narrator of a story (Humbert) that takes over the story, MURDERS THE WRITER, and tries to get away with it.

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I would pare it down to it being more of a cautionary tale....  you know----

Be careful what you wish for.  

And I thought the 1997 remake (and for some strange reason mostly ignored) with JEREMY IRONS as Humbert did Nabokov's novel more justice( although I like both movie versions).  

Sepiatone

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5 minutes ago, Sepiatone said:

I would pare it down to it being more of a cautionary tale....  you know----

Be careful what you wish for.  

And I thought the 1997 remake (and for some strange reason mostly ignored) with JEREMY IRONS as Humbert did Nabokov's novel more justice( although I like both movie versions).  

Sepiatone

They filmed the remake in my hometown. I think Lolita’s house is about five or six blocks from my office. (And the “blue velvet” diner is two blocks away.)

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2 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

it has something to do with Russian Naming Culture- I forget the specifics, but some(?) Russians make male first names a variation on the father's family names, and some last names translate to "son of" ie "DAVIDOVITCH = SON OF DAVID".) HUMBERt HUMBERT is a play on that sort of confusing nomenclature, which would appeal to a cryptic and slightly ludicrous writer like NABOKOV (i mean that as a compliment).

LOLITA is to NABOKOV'S full body of work as HAMLET is to SHAKESPEARE'S- It's the one they FORCE YOU TO READ in college, but to be honest, "meh."

NABOKOV is a bit like another writer I admire greatly, CHARLES DICKENS in that both are A+ writers and B+ storytellers- sometimes the tale they are telling is no great shakes, but oh, HOW THEY TELL IT!

of his non-LOLITA books- I would recommend PNIN- which is an English Language novel of his about a Russian expat college professor and is very charming and personal and funny or THE DEFENSE (aka THE LUZHIN (sp?) DEFENSE), which is about a RUSSIAN CHESS PRODIGY who unspools as an adult and starts seeing the world as a giant chess game and only moves accordingly- ie diagonally when it's time to "be the bishop" or two steps forward and to the side when it's time to "move the Knight." it's pretty funny, especially if you like Chess

LOLITA is- in all honesty- not a book about an affair between a middle aged man and a too young girl- i mean, that happens in it, but it is NOT what the book is about. It is about a writer (Nabokov) creating a narrator of a story (Humbert) that takes over the story, MURDERS THE WRITER, and tries to get away with it.

In all honesty, I never finished Lolita.  I got lost in it.  I found the random French phrases confusing, especially since I kept stopping so that I could look them up and translate them.  Honestly, the book became a chore and I didn't finish it.

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33 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

In all honesty, I never finished Lolita.  I got lost in it.  I found the random French phrases confusing, especially since I kept stopping so that I could look them up and translate them.  Honestly, the book became a chore and I didn't finish it.

I'm thinking there is an ANNOTATED LOLITA out there- one with translations and explanations on the bottom of the page- if there isn't, there should be.

I DESPISE books that use casual French and don't provide translations.

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3 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

NABOKOV is a bit like another writer I admire greatly, CHARLES DICKENS in that both are A+ writers and B+ storytellers- sometimes the tale they are telling is no great shakes, but oh, HOW THEY TELL IT!

Thank you !!! If this is slightly to.\OT, please indulge. An incorrigible (the right word) Henry James fan was blithely accusing Dickens' characters as being one dimensional while extolling the virtues of those of H.James. Leaving aside any argument as to the veracity of this, I pointed out that Dickens gave us so so so so many well-drawn and memorable characters than perhaps any writer ever, How many characters' of Henry James come trippingly off the top of the head? Anyone with the affliction of liking Henry James might be able to come up with a few but who else would? I could have buttressed my general train of thought by emphasizing WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE regarding story telling. 

1 hour ago, Sepiatone said:

And I thought the 1997 remake (and for some strange reason mostly ignored) with JEREMY IRONS as Humbert did Nabokov's novel more justice( although I like both movie versions).  

Hey, thanks for mentioning that. I was pleasantly surprised by this less-known version, and Irons was pretty good. That's saying something from me, because he does not cut the ice for me.

 

On 9/22/2019 at 4:20 PM, TomJH said:

Kubrick is one of the most overrated of directors, in my opinion. His films are so cold, there's little emotional involvement for me. 2001 is an absolute bore for me, particularly in its baffling final half hour.

Having said that I like his films up to Dr. Strangelove, regard Paths of Glory as one of the great anti-war films and Spartacus as the best of the big scale costume epics of the late '50s and early '60s. And, yes, I very much like Lolita, with one of the great performances of James Mason's career.

After announcing that he is overrated, you come up with some pretty good accolades. ;)

"Up to "Strangelove" ?  But not including? I tremble to think someone might reveal that he/she doesn't like that one. If so, then still another of the naturals shocks that flesh is heir to. Thanks, Will.

///

 

 

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5 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

Tonight at 10- I have mixed feelings on the films of Robert Altman, I don’t like Elliot Gould as an actor and THE LONG GOODBYE Is the only novel of Raymond Chandler’s that I found disappointing.

That said, THE LONG GOODBYE (1973) Is one of the best films of the 1970s and I *really highly* recommend it.

A pretty unique adaptation.

 

Sorry, but I HATE that movie. Should've left it in the time period it was written in.......

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2 minutes ago, laffite said:

"Up to "Strangelove" ?  But not including? I tremble to think someone might reveal that he/she doesn't like that one. If so, then still another of the naturals shocks that flesh is heir to. Thanks, Will.

 

No matter the movie, some one doesn't like it, and will be more than happy to tell everyone else as much. In fact, a few people voiced displeasure with Dr. Strangelove in the past few weeks in another thread (I don't recall which one - I lose track of all of the "most overrated/movies you hate" threads). 

I honestly can't think of a movie that someone on here hasn't said they hated or felt was "overrated" at least once or twice in my years reading the message board. And that's just here, let alone other movie sites, like back when IMDb had comment sections for each movie, and invariably there would be at least one thread declaring each and every movie "the worst movie ever made!!!".

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17 minutes ago, Hibi said:

Sorry, but I HATE that movie. Should've left it in the time period it was written in.......

I really expected to hate it. I was almost disappointed in myself for really liking it so much!

see also: GOSFORD PARK

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1 hour ago, LawrenceA said:

No matter the movie, some one doesn't like it, and will be more than happy to tell everyone else as much. In fact, a few people voiced displeasure with Dr. Strangelove in the past few weeks in another thread (I don't recall which one - I lose track of all of the "most overrated/movies you hate" threads). 

I honestly can't think of a movie that someone on here hasn't said they hated or felt was "overrated" at least once or twice in my years reading the message board. And that's just here, let alone other movie sites, like back when IMDb had comment sections for each movie, and invariably there would be at least one thread declaring each and every movie "the worst movie ever made!!!".

Point taken ... just another way of saying how much I like the movie and an alternate way, if you will, of paraphrasing the oft intoned exclamation, "I can't believe how anyone cannot like this or that film," knowing very well that it is no doubt so.

..

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8 minutes ago, laffite said:

Point taken ... just another way of saying how much I like the movie and an alternate way, if you will, of paraphrasing the oft intoned exclamation, "I can't believe how anyone cannot like this or that film," knowing very well that it is no doubt so.

..

I'm a big fan of Dr. Strangelove but my wife isn't.   She views the film as too campy and a lot of the humor goes over her head.    She has this view towards most of Peter Sellers work.      I.e. her reaction is often 'are you kidding me' and I have to say 'yes,,  that is their intent!'.

 

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29 minutes ago, laffite said:

Point taken ... just another way of saying how much I like the movie and an alternate way, if you will, of paraphrasing the oft intoned exclamation, "I can't believe how anyone cannot like this or that film," knowing very well that it is no doubt so.

Someone in another thread (again I can't recall which) used the term "universally-acknowledged classics" or something similar a week or two ago. It led me to wonder if there really is such a thing. Is there a movie that everyone around here would agree was good? Before the internet I would have named several, based on my own opinion, that of those in my immediate circle (friends & family), and what I have read in film books. But now...I can't think of any movie that I haven't read someone voicing dislike for.

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