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Guest Alix

Norma vs. Joan

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Guest Alix

That would really be an exciting find! Although Garbo is beautiful in this one, I think of it as Joan's movie. I especially like the scenes she does with both Barrymores.

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Guest son, jery

That's fascinating info, rea502! I know that all the pre-code movies were later heavily censored for TV but wasn't aware MGM itself edited the movie in favor of Garbo. Here's something horrifying: in the 50s, I saw "grand hotel" on TV several times. But--and don't faint--ALL the scenes of Garbo and John Barrymore were edited out! That means they were nearly completely eliminated from the movie. That's why I was always puzzled by their names in the credits since the censored version gave them about ten minutes of screen time. ALL TV stations, yes, especially those in the Bible belt where I come from, eagerly chopped up the movies so they wouldn't offend some little old lady or man out in the boondocks.

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Guest olmsted, l

I would love to get a hold of a DVD that showed those scenes! When I first started watching classic movies and reading about them, I kept hearing that Garbo was the best actress and how much the camera loved her, etc. I decided I needed to see some of her films and started watching them. Although I had never thought of her as a typical beauty, I had to agree with everything I'd heard. I could not take my eyes off her! The moment she came on screen, I was mesmerized, I ignored everyone else in a scene and just studied her. So Grand Hotel may Joan's movie, but I wouldn't know because I'm too busy watching Garbo. The only other actress that I think encompasses that quality is Marilyn Monroe. Try NOT looking at her when she's on screen.

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Guest NicktheChauffeur

Anyone watch 'West Point'(1927) on the 6th? Joan introduced me to silent film with 'Tramp, Tramp, Tramp' and 'Our Modern Maidens' and the like. I think current and future generations should first see her smoke a cigarette in Grand Hotel or flirt like a schoolgirl in 'Our Dancing Daughters', before passing judgment on her for the single malicious film 'Mommy Dearest'. Unfortunatly as a young man I remember first hearing about her in the context of that awful film, and I know I'm not the only one.

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Guest son, jery

Nick, here's another reply (I've just posted you one on another regarding the Joan Crawford blue movie). Look under "The Sexiest" category of the 'General Discussion' folder and also under "Silent Leading Men" for my rave reaction to Billy Haines in "West Point." He was fabulous. I do wish Anita Page had played the Joan Crawford role. Joan was always personally domineering. Anita was such a sweet gal. Haines has become my number one hearthrob--next to Johnny Mack Brown and Buddy Rogers.

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Guest Alix

Jery! You faithless thing! I thought you said JOHN GILBERT was your current new hearthrob!

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Guest son, jery

Oh, you know how us modern young thangs are! We can't stay faithful if it kills us. But you're right! John G., please forgive this worthless little flapper! I'm faithful to you in my own way.

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Guest Alix

Just don't abandon our favorite, Johnny Mack Brown. Ah....and I have to tell you, I'm very taken with Charles Starrett after seeing him with Anita Page in JUNGLE BRIDE! Very, very sexy!

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Guest son, jery

i've got a fab pic of the hunky charles starrett in that sizzling scene from "mask of fu manchu" where he wiggles around, almost starkers, with myrna loy "toying" with him. The pic is poster size. Yummmy. Lucky Myrna. now to see him in "jungle bride"!

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Guest Alix

Honestly, it's a "B" movie worth buying! Gorgeous Anita Page (some naughty, naughty monkeys steal her clothing!) and buff-a-licious Charles. Jery, you'll be in love with him too!

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Guest Paglia, Paulette

I am more familiar with Joan than with Norma Shearer, but just recently saw "The Women" which is a favorite of mine. Norma seems very modern to me even now. Knowing that her career was going well even before she married Thalberg I am lead to believe that she worked very hard at her craft, especially since she was not a classic beauty. I think in many ways she was ahead of her time because of this. We now see many different types of beauty and Norma definitely was different from her contemporaries. I have always read nice things about her, except where it came to her own daughter. If the stories of jealousy are true, she would not be the first mother to resent her daughter, or more importantly her daughters youth. Maybe in real life she & Joan had more in common than they ever realized.

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Guest son, jery

Hi Paulette! You made some very good points about Norma Shearer, a star I would love to have met. In this month's "Vanity Fair" or "Premiere" magazine, there's an article on all the great stars who left their careers at very early ages. I believe Norma was only in her early 40s when she abruptly terminated her movie career and got married to her ski instructor. But she admitted before she died that she was own her worst enemy in that she turned down so many great roles. Louis Mayer desperately wanted her for "Mrs.Minever" but she didn't want to play a mother. Same thing with Selznick's "Since You Went Away," "Madame Curie," "I Remember Mama," etc.

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Guest K, Sandy

Hey everyone, this Monday, June 24, TCM will be showing a bunch of Joan Crawford flicks, starting at 6AM EST with THIS MODERN AGE (1931) and DANCE, FOOLS, DANCE (1931). Get your VCRs ready! Sorry if this posted twice.

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Guest Alix

Both of these are goodies, and you definitely do want to set the VCR's. THIS MODERN AGE has Joan as a blonde, if you can imagine that! My personal favorite is DANCE FOOLS DANCE. This is the one where you see Joan in her underwear, as everyone at the yacht dance peels off their evening clothes and goes swimming. Heck, don't ya worry--they turn the lights off so nobody can see! Yeah, right!! Also, watch this one to see the blow-drier Joan uses after the swim. It looks just like the ones we use today. This movie also offers a great look at that fabulous Gable/Crawford chemistry, although this one doesn't sizzle quite like some of the others. This **may** be the first movie they did together...? Thanks, Sandy for the heads up alert!

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Guest Alix

While researching a question in the "Information Please" folder about the movie LETTY LYNTON, I found a wonderful website devoted to Joan Crawford. Try www.joancrawfordoline.com for lots of info about this actress and for a synopsis of each film she did. I found these very interesting, because each contained what the media said about the movie at that time, what Joan herself said about her performance and the movie, trivia about the film, and reviews from either the webmaster or readers. It seems to have a lot of information that Joan's pre-Code and silent fans might enjoy.

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Guest olmsted, l

Oooh, thanks Alix. I am soooo looking forward to her as Star of the month next month!

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Guest Alix

Me too! I am a huge Joan Crawford fan, and enjoy her pre-Code work tremendously. What a crime we can't see LETTY LYNTON, and SALLY, MARY AND IRENE (or whatever that title is!).

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Guest olmsted, l

Alix, after reading your post about Letty Lynton, I remembered reading about the film in Sin and Soft Focus. I also remember the author specifically saying that he tried not to mention films that the reader could not get a hold of and then gave a list of the films mentioned and where they are available. I'll have to go back and see what he says about Letty Lynton and if there is somewhere that it can be found. By the way, I briefly checked out the website and will have to go back when I can spend all day there! Thanks again.

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Guest Alix

You really could spend a great deal of time at that website. It appears to be very well done. I think you're right, and that LETTY LYNTON isn't given much page space in "Sin in Soft Focus" because it isn't available for viewing. Let us know.

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Guest olmsted, l

Alix, I did end up checking on Letty Lynton and found what you already knew--it isn't available, which is such a shame 'cause it sounded quite juicy and stars the dashing Robert Montgomery too!

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Guest Alix

Robert Montgomery **was** a juicy, sexy leading man. Very suave, very sophisticated. I like him in all his pre-Codes.

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Guest o, rita

While perusing one of Joan Crawford's web sites a fan commented that Faye Dunaway's portrayal of Joan in film Mommie Dearest ruined her career. What are y'all's opionions about that. Do you think Mommie Dearest was the demise of Faye's career in Hollywood. She really "hammed" it up in that movie. And, after thinking about it I could not recall any significant movies and/or roles that followed. What do you think or know?

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Guest K, Sandy

rita, your post intrigued me, so I looked up Faye Dunaway on the imdb. It seems as though her heyday was definitely in the 1970's with roles in THE THREE MUSKETEERS, NETWORK, CHINATOWN, THE THOMAS CROWN AFFAIR, THREE DAYS OF THE CONDOR and others. Her star-making role in BONNIE AND CLYDE was in 1967. MOMMIE DEAREST came out in 1981, when Dunaway was 40. We all know what Hollywood thinks of actresses over 40-over the hill and only fit to play "the mother" roles. So that is my theory as to the demise of her career as a leading lady. She did have many roles listed from 1981 to present, some in television and smaller films. I enjoyed her performance in the tv adaptation of the book "Cold Sassy Tree."

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Guest o, rita

sandy, I totally agree with you about Hollywood and actresses relegated to "character parts" when they reach 40. Especially, when we all know woman don't reach their prime until 40. but, they continue to cast male actors of that age as leading men with actresses young enough to be thier daughters.

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Guest son, jery

This post has nothing to do with Joan or Norma but it does deal with Faye Dunaway, which some of you have discussed, and which IS related to Joan because of "Mommie Dearest." In today's NY Daily News, there's a juicy gossip item that Faye went into her Monster Ego mode when she returned a rental car to AVIs here. Bystanders said she screamed and threatened and went "beserk" because the clerk was going to charge her $20 extra for mileage. "Do you know who I am?" she screamed. "Do you know what I can do to you?" Love it! A full-scale Diva moment!

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