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Bernie Sanders!

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22 minutes ago, TheCid said:

The "vast majority of the American people" would not vote for a candidate espousing those ideas. 

Current polling says they would. Those ideas have now reached mainstream status.

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5 hours ago, TheCid said:

The "vast majority of the American people" would not vote for a candidate espousing those ideas.  As a life-long, left of center Democrat, I wouldn't.

As James noted, this really does not explain Democratic-Socialism.  How does it get paid for in a real world?  How does it relate to capitalism, which has been the bedrock to the success of Western Europe, the Middle East, China, North and South America, ad infinitum?

(Incidentally, one should recall here how even the most daring proposals of today’s democratic socialists do not come even close to moderate European social democracy half a century ago – a sign of how the centre of gravity of the entire political field shifted to the right.)

 

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12 hours ago, Gershwin fan said:

(Incidentally, one should recall here how even the most daring proposals of today’s democratic socialists do not come even close to moderate European social democracy half a century ago – a sign of how the centre of gravity of the entire political field shifted to the right.)

 

Gradual change is how the US Federal system was designed,   specifically,  the Senate,  since that government body requires a majority of the states coming to a common consensus which is a lot different than a majority of the population in ALL states.     

So I would phase the above differently:

The 'centre of gravity of the entire political field' didn't shift to the right;  in most states it has always been to the the right,  with the left leaning movements taking place in urban areas in states like CA and NY and a few other smaller northeastern states,  without the power to change Federal law (or elected a President with the guts to do so; E.g. Obama dropping single-payer healthcare system,  but to be fair to Obama the Dem party didn't have the power to pass that,  barely passing the misguided ACA.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

The 'centre of gravity of the entire political field' didn't shift to the right;  in most states it has always been to the the right,  with the left leaning movements taking place in urban areas in states like CA and NY and a few other smaller northeastern states,  without the power to change Federal law (or elected a President with the guts to do so; E.g. Obama dropping single-payer healthcare system,  but to be fair to Obama the Dem party didn't have the power to pass that,  barely passing the misguided ACA.

It was definitely under Bill Clinton that the Democratic Party shifted very much to the right. Maybe not in what it said, but absolutely in what it did during his administration (and ever since).

Like Hillary revealed - you say one thing and you do another. They think Democratic voters are easily fooled and it's hard to think they're wrong.

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37 minutes ago, mr6666 said:

Bernie SandersVerified account @SenSanders 2h2 hours ago

 
 

Brett Kavanaugh's nomination is a dire threat to:

-Abortion rights -Campaign finance reform -Voting rights -Workers' rights -Health care -Climate change -Environmental protection -Gun safety

 

He cannot be given a lifetime seat on the Supreme Court.

Not up to you Bernie.   Hillary cheated you out of the nomination and so now you're just a Senator with ONE vote.

 

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https://www.rt.com/usa/435970-democrats-socialism-gallup-poll/

Young Americans have soured on capitalism, and that's what got Trump elected  Slavoj Žižek

Support for capitalism among younger voters has dropped drastically, a new Gallup poll reveals. The US establishment’s refusal to see this shift has resulted in Trump’s election, philosopher Slavoj Zizek tells RT.

According to the poll, 57 percent of Democrats view socialism positively. Only 47 percent view capitalism positively, down from 56 percent in 2010.

Across political lines, young Americans (aged 18-29) in general are split on capitalism and socialism. 51 percent of Americans aged 18-29 view socialism positively, while 45 percent view capitalism positively, down 12 points in just two years.

Slavoj Zizek sees the shift as a realization that for some, the American Dream just isn’t real.

“The roots of this disappointment can be easily identified” he told RT. ”The working class, but also the middle class feels betrayed. Generally, there’s widespread awareness that the American system doesn’t function the way people expected it to function.”

Curiously, the drop in satisfaction comes at a time when the US economy is booming. Unemployment is at its lowest point in half a century at just over three percent, wages are increasing, and if President Trump is to be believed, all manner of companies are clamoring to bring their manufacturing operations back to the USA from overseas.

In 2010, when more Democrats still trusted capitalism, things were objectively worse. Unemployment stood at a dismal nine percent, wages had stagnated since the great recession, and recovery was still a distant glimmer.

“The message is very hopeful,” Zizek said about the poll, which he said shows that quite a large part of the US population “no longer identifies with the American dream.” He described the drop in support for Capitalism as the “beginning of the end of what in learned terms we call ideological hegemony.”

 

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4 hours ago, Gershwin fan said:

https://www.rt.com/usa/435970-democrats-socialism-gallup-poll/

Young Americans have soured on capitalism, and that's what got Trump elected  Slavoj Žižek

Support for capitalism among younger voters has dropped drastically, a new Gallup poll reveals. The US establishment’s refusal to see this shift has resulted in Trump’s election, philosopher Slavoj Zizek tells RT.

According to the poll, 57 percent of Democrats view socialism positively. Only 47 percent view capitalism positively, down from 56 percent in 2010.

Across political lines, young Americans (aged 18-29) in general are split on capitalism and socialism. 51 percent of Americans aged 18-29 view socialism positively, while 45 percent view capitalism positively, down 12 points in just two years.

Slavoj Zizek sees the shift as a realization that for some, the American Dream just isn’t real.

“The roots of this disappointment can be easily identified” he told RT. ”The working class, but also the middle class feels betrayed. Generally, there’s widespread awareness that the American system doesn’t function the way people expected it to function.”

Curiously, the drop in satisfaction comes at a time when the US economy is booming. Unemployment is at its lowest point in half a century at just over three percent, wages are increasing, and if President Trump is to be believed, all manner of companies are clamoring to bring their manufacturing operations back to the USA from overseas.

In 2010, when more Democrats still trusted capitalism, things were objectively worse. Unemployment stood at a dismal nine percent, wages had stagnated since the great recession, and recovery was still a distant glimmer.

“The message is very hopeful,” Zizek said about the poll, which he said shows that quite a large part of the US population “no longer identifies with the American dream.” He described the drop in support for Capitalism as the “beginning of the end of what in learned terms we call ideological hegemony.”

 

Any binary poll that gives people only two choices of 'capitalism' or 'socialism' is rather pointless.   The Economist had a very interesting article about this two weeks ago.     Their overall conclusion was that there is a large generation gap in how 'socialism' is defined and therefore viewed.    E.g. a person under 30 says they favor 'socialism' meaning social safety net government programs,  while a person over 60, assume this person under 30 wants to eliminate most privately held industry replacing them with government held entries.    

A much better way to know how voters feels is to ask specific questions related to public policy.  E.g. do you support a single-payer,  not-for-profit health insurance entity or Medicare-for-all etc...? 

In addition the article mentions the DSA - Democratic Socialists of America.   While membership has increased almost 8 fold over what it was a few years back total membership is still < 50,000.   While media darling Ocasio-Cortez is a member 99% of Dems running for office are NOT as well as the vast majority of voters. 

 

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14 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Any binary poll that gives people only two choices of 'capitalism' or 'socialism' is rather pointless.   The Economist had a very interesting article about this two weeks ago.     Their overall conclusion was that there is a large generation gap in how 'socialism' is defined and therefore viewed.    E.g. a person under 30 says they favor 'socialism' meaning social safety net government programs,  while a person over 60, assume this person under 30 wants to eliminate most privately held industry replacing them with government held entries.    

A much better way to know how voters feels is to ask specific questions related to public policy.  E.g. do you support a single-payer,  not-for-profit health insurance entity or Medicare-for-all etc...? 

In addition the article mentions the DSA - Democratic Socialists of America.   While membership has increased almost 8 fold over what it was a few years back total membership is still < 50,000.   While media darling Ocasio-Cortez is a member 99% of Dems running for office are NOT as well as the vast majority of voters. 

 

Yeah, I agree. I assumed it was implied in the article that most would take Socialism to mean Social Democracy/ Welfare Capitalism and not actual Marxist, Anarchist or Bookchin Socialism. I agree with the main point of the article that the poll shows that most Americans are dissatisfied with the "American Dream" even if they're not experts on policy. 

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1 hour ago, Gershwin fan said:

Yeah, I agree. I assumed it was implied in the article that most would take Socialism to mean Social Democracy/ Welfare Capitalism and not actual Marxist, Anarchist or Bookchin Socialism. I agree with the main point of the article that the poll shows that most Americans are dissatisfied with the "American Dream" even if they're not experts on policy. 

James was right about it being a poor poll.  As with many polls, the authors set out with a bias and then proved it. Specific questions about specific policies and programs are needed.  Sort of like, do you still beat your wife - yes or no.

More importantly, I don't think most Americans are dissatisfied with the "American Dream," but rather in their not realizing it.  I would imagine that at no time did a majority achieve the American Dream (whatever that is).  However, for the most part Hollywood, the media, etc. gave the impression that it was all encompassing or that things were actually better than they really were.

Even the Russians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Cubans, etc. have learned that without capitalism, there is no money for "socialism" or social programs.

Incidentally I consider myself a social liberal, but in no way am I a socialist.

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The Associated PressVerified account @AP

 

BREAKING: Amazon says it is increasing its minimum wage for all US workers to $15 per hour starting next month.

==============================

Bernie SandersVerified account @SenSanders 5h5 hours ago

 
 

Bernie Sanders Retweeted The Associated Press

What Mr. Bezos has done today is not only enormously important for Amazon’s hundreds of thousands of employees, it could well be a shot heard around the world.

I urge corporate leaders around the country to follow Mr. Bezos' lead.

=============================

David SirotaVerified account @davidsirota 7h7 hours ago

 
 

.@BernieSanders & @RoKhanna were criticized for their legislation that was designed to shame Amazon and other low-wage employers.

But here is the result of their pressure campaign

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Bernie SandersVerified account @SenSanders 7h7 hours ago

 
 

The rise of authoritarian nationalism is a challenge for all of us who support democratic values.

Tomorrow at 11 AM I will deliver a speech at Johns Hopkins SAIS on the importance of

"Building a Global Democratic Movement to Counter Authoritarianism."

https://www.sais-jhu.edu/content/johns-hopkins-sais-host-building-global-democratic-movement-counter-authoritarianism-bernie 

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Bernie Sanders Delivers Stirring Rebuke of Trump's Authoritarianism

 

" There is currently a struggle of enormous consequence taking place in the United States and throughout the world,” Sanders declared in his speech. “In it we see two competing visions. On one hand, we see a growing worldwide movement toward authoritarianism, oligarchy, and kleptocracy. On the other side, we see a movement toward strengthening democracy, egalitarianism, and economic, social, racial, and environmental justice.”

And so, he added, “We need to counter oligarchic authoritarianism with a strong global progressive movement that speaks to the needs of working people, that recognizes that many of the problems we are faced with are the product of a failed status quo. We need a movement that unites people all over the world who don’t just seek to return to a romanticized past, a past that did not work for so many, but who strive for something better.”

  “Authoritarians seek power by promoting division and hatred. We will promote unity and inclusion.”

And, he concluded, “In a time of exploding wealth and technology, we have the potential to create a decent life for all people. Our job is to build on our common humanity and do everything that we can to oppose all of the forces, whether unaccountable government power or unaccountable corporate power, who try to divide us up and set us against each other. We know that those forces work together across borders. We must do the same. “

 

see: https://www.truthdig.com/articles/bernie-sanders-delivers-stirring-rebuke-of-trumps-authoritarianism/

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Bernie Sanders is coming to S.C. to begin campaigning for president in 2020.  S.C. has the earliest primary in the South.  He only got 26% of the Dem primary vote against Hillary last time.

Few, if any, Democratic candidates or party officials in S.C. want him here before the Nov. elections.  His presence will hurt them and that is a fact.  The Republican governor has already tried to link his Dem. opponent to Sanders. 

Bernie Sanders is the worst thing to ever happen to the Democratic Party, pure and simple.

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9 minutes ago, TheCid said:

Bernie Sanders is the worst thing to ever happen to the Democratic Party, pure and simple.

Wrong - going with Hillary was

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1 minute ago, cigarjoe said:

Wrong - going with Hillary was

If Sanders had run, Trump would have won the popular vote as well as the electoral vote. But I assume you are not implying that the Dems should have nominated Sanders instead of Clinton - or are you?

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3 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

Maybe a Sanders and Hillary as Vice may have worked, who knows....

That would have been even worse.  Hillary with Sanders as vice would have been better, but they still would have lost.  While the GOPers and right-wing extremists can appeal to the American voters nationally, I do not believe the extreme left-wing Dems can.  That is one thing (among others) that killed Hillary.

In the swing states, purple states and even most blue states, Sanders' extreme left-wing "socialism" does not sell to the voters.  Also, he is an independent and not a Democrat - by choice.  He is not supported by the Democratic Party, but merely tolerated.

Of course, Trump is not really a Republican either, but he took over the party and the officials conceded it to him.  Unlike the Dems, the GOP's basic policy is: anybody who can get us control and appoint Supreme Court justices will get the party's full support.

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No I didn't like Hillary under any circumstances, I would have held my nose and voted for a B&A ticket, against Twump.

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