TomJH

NAME A SCREEN CHARACTER YOU'D LOVE TO PITCHFORK

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I didn't think Eddie (Walter Brennan) in TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT was THAT bad.....I found him quite amusing actually. Sure he could be a pest at times but he was a lovable pest, Brennan pulled it off well (yes I am aware that he was a racist in real life but that's neither here nor there).

 

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26 minutes ago, Bethluvsfilms said:

I didn't think Eddie (Walter Brennan) in TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT was THAT bad.....I found him quite amusing actually. Sure he could be a pest at times but he was a lovable pest, Brennan pulled it off well (yes I am aware that he was a racist in real life but that's neither here nor there).

 

Well Johnson felt Eddie was a pest,  but Johnson wasn't able to say much about it because, as Cricket said, he didn't know when to duck.   

 

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Miss Dove in "Good Morning Miss Dove". She had her own life ruined by deciding to cover up the misdeeds of her own father, because she knew those misdeeds did not define who he was as a person. Then years later she turns around and torpedoes Chuck Conners' character's chance at happiness because of a misdeed of his fiancee  because "wrong is wrong". Huh?? And how does she turn instantly from a normal young woman into a humorless prig - in and out of the classroom - the minute she becomes a schoolteacher? Bring on the pitchfork indeed.

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I'd like to pitchfork Montgomery Clift in "The Heiress". OK Olivia is very naïve, but that's the way she was raised with her domineering father and flibberty-gibbit aunt. Clift is such a cad and he plays it so sincerely I want to kill him every time I see this movie. Just watched it recently on TCM. 

I hate him but I keep watching the movie when I see it's being aired hoping for a different outcome...does anyone else do this?

I do like the transition de Havilland makes . She becomes a bee-yotch.

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2 hours ago, marcar said:

I'd like to pitchfork Montgomery Clift in "The Heiress". OK Olivia is very naïve, but that's the way she was raised with her domineering father and flibberty-gibbit aunt. Clift is such a cad and he plays it so sincerely I want to kill him every time I see this movie. Just watched it recently on TCM. 

I hate him but I keep watching the movie when I see it's being aired hoping for a different outcome...does anyone else do this?

I do like the transition de Havilland makes . She becomes a bee-yotch.

I agree on Clift, but I think that aunt of hers (Miriam Hopkins) could also use a turn with the pitchfork for nagging Catherine to take him back after the way he treated her.

Also SPOILERS: 

It should have been obvious he was a golddigger, and would always be a golddigger when he disappeared without a word (and how very VERY convenient it was when he decides to walk back into her life after her father has passed on, when he knows he no longer has any obstacles to her and her fortune). 

But does that matter to dear old auntie? Oh no, she pushes Catherine to give him another chance. I kept thinking 'If you like him so much, beloved aunt, why don't YOU marry him?'.

Catherine does become harder in the end, but she was definitely much wiser to Clift's character than Hopkins' character was.

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On 1/15/2018 at 6:13 AM, Bethluvsfilms said:

I agree on Clift, but I think that aunt of hers (Miriam Hopkins) could also use a turn with the pitchfork for nagging Catherine to take him back after the way he treated her.

Also SPOILERS: 

It should have been obvious he was a golddigger, and would always be a golddigger when he disappeared without a word (and how very VERY convenient it was when he decides to walk back into her life after her father has passed on, when he knows he no longer has any obstacles to her and her fortune). 

But does that matter to dear old auntie? Oh no, she pushes Catherine to give him another chance. I kept thinking 'If you like him so much, beloved aunt, why don't YOU marry him?'.

Catherine does become harder in the end, but she was definitely much wiser to Clift's character than Hopkins' character was.

Interesting point of view that I had not really thought about. I felt that her aunt had a romanticized view of marriage and, perhaps because she was a somewhat younger widow,or because she and Morris had become social buddies, or perhaps because of the place in time in which the story took place and considering how timid her niece was, she felt that Morris was Catherine's only chance at happiness, whether he truly loved her or otherwise.

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49 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

Interesting point of view that I had not really thought about. I felt that her aunt had a romanticized view of marriage and, perhaps because she was a somewhat younger widow,or because she and Morris had become social buddies, or perhaps because of the place in time in which the story took place and considering how timid her niece was, she felt that Morris was Catherine's only chance at happiness, whether he truly loved her or otherwise.

Right after Morris abandons Catherine,  she tells her father that she wanted to marry him anyways.   So at this point in time Catherine and her aunt have the same POV;   yea,  we know he is doesn't love her and wants to marry her for money,  but SO WHAT,   he would make one great husband (which one has to assume is based mostly on sexuality,  but maybe both also believed Morris wouldn't play around and would treat Catherine respectfully).

It is only after years have passed that Catherine decides marriage to a man like Morris would NOT increase her happiness.

 

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How about Veda Pierce in MILDRED PIERCE? 

She just treats her mother like crap, but also knows how to manipulate her into giving her another chance when she wants her own way.

There should have been a point where Mildred said, enough is enough, she's not worth it, but hey, I'm not a mom so I can't judge her too harshly.

 

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3 hours ago, Bethluvsfilms said:

How about Veda Pierce in MILDRED PIERCE? 

She just treats her mother like crap, but also knows how to manipulate her into giving her another chance when she wants her own way.

There should have been a point where Mildred said, enough is enough, she's not worth it, but hey, I'm not a mom so I can't judge her too harshly.

 

I know Veda is a horrible person in Mildred Pierce.  But I just love her.  The girl knows what she wants and she won't stop at anything until she gets it.  

I also am a big fan of Ann Blyth. 

For me, Butterfly McQueen gets the pitchfork in Mildred Pierce.  That voice! Ugh! Where is Hattie McDaniel when you need her?

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4 hours ago, Bethluvsfilms said:

How about Veda Pierce in MILDRED PIERCE? 

She just treats her mother like crap, but also knows how to manipulate her into giving her another chance when she wants her own way.

There should have been a point where Mildred said, enough is enough, she's not worth it, but hey, I'm not a mom so I can't judge her too harshly.

 

If its any comfort, in Carol Burnett's spoof of Mildred Pierce done for her TV show, Mildred shoots the spiteful daughter at the end.

 

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14 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

I know Veda is a horrible person in Mildred Pierce.  But I just love her.  The girl knows what she wants and she won't stop at anything until she gets it.  

I also am a big fan of Ann Blyth. 

For me, Butterfly McQueen gets the pitchfork in Mildred Pierce.  That voice! Ugh! Where is Hattie McDaniel when you need her?

The McQueen character gets the double pitchfork;   I don't know what is more "pitchforkable",  her voice or her weakness. 

 

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16 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

I know Veda is a horrible person in Mildred Pierce.  But I just love her.  The girl knows what she wants and she won't stop at anything until she gets it.  

I also am a big fan of Ann Blyth. 

For me, Butterfly McQueen gets the pitchfork in Mildred Pierce.  That voice! Ugh! Where is Hattie McDaniel when you need her?

I agree that McQueen's voice is like nails on a chalkboard...but I would still want to deliver the pitchfork on Veda a 100 times more for breaking her poor mother's heart time and time again.

I also agree that Ann Blyth is brilliant in the role. 

I won't argue that McQueen's Prissy in GONE WITH THE WIND earns a turn with the pitchfork after (SPOILERS) bragging she knew how to deliver babies, then admitted she didn't really know a thing about it when the time came to deliver Melanie's baby, THEN she has the gall to brag about how she really 'helped' with the delivery.

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11 minutes ago, Bethluvsfilms said:

I agree that McQueen's voice is like nails on a chalkboard...but I would still want to deliver the pitchfork on Veda a 100 times more for breaking her poor mother's heart time and time again.

I also agree that Ann Blyth is brilliant in the role. 

I won't argue that McQueen's Prissy in GONE WITH THE WIND earns a turn with the pitchfork after (SPOILERS) bragging she knew how to deliver babies, then admitted she didn't really know a thing about it when the time came to deliver Melanie's baby, THEN she has the gall to brag about how she really 'helped' with the delivery.

I agree that Veda is terrible, but Mildred Pierce has herself to blame too.  She's the one that helped enable Veda's shallowness.

I know that we're discussing Mildred Pierce the film, but right now I'm reading James M. Cain's original novel upon which the film was based.  There are a lot more instances in the book of Mildred kowtowing to Veda's materialistic demands.  In the novel, she breaks her back trying to earn money to buy Veda a new grand piano after Veda throws a big fit that she didn't get one for Christmas.  She also caves into Veda's demands that she receive piano lessons from a more prestigious teacher instead of the local neighbor.  Yes, Veda is awful, but I have a feeling that Mildred catered to her every whim and desire and Veda is a product of that. 

Butterfly McQueen is probably one of the most annoying character actors in film.  I always cringe when I hear that voice.  In the novel, Letty (or Lotty as she's called in the book) is a weak character too.  She's supposed to basically assist Mildred in the restaurant and in the home, but she ends up being a liability in the restaurant and Mildred as to pull her off the floor and put her on washing dishes.  

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4 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

I agree that Veda is terrible, but Mildred Pierce has herself to blame too.  She's the one that helped enable Veda's shallowness.

I know that we're discussing Mildred Pierce the film, but right now I'm reading James M. Cain's original novel upon which the film was based.  There are a lot more instances in the book of Mildred kowtowing to Veda's materialistic demands.  In the novel, she breaks her back trying to earn money to buy Veda a new grand piano after Veda throws a big fit that she didn't get one for Christmas.  She also caves into Veda's demands that she receive piano lessons from a more prestigious teacher instead of the local neighbor.  Yes, Veda is awful, but I have a feeling that Mildred catered to her every whim and desire and Veda is a product of that. 

 

The HBO cable remake with Kate Winslet is a lot closer to Cain's novel and also shows the scenes with which you mentioned, and you are right....Mildred does shoulder a lot of the blame for Veda turning out the way she did by spoiling her all the time. Maybe if (SPOILERS) her other daughter had lived on, Mildred might have acted more like a responsible, disciplined parent.

Bert, lousy husband as he may have been, at least saw through Veda and wasn't willing to jump over hoops to please her selfish desires the way Mildred did.

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21 minutes ago, Bethluvsfilms said:

The HBO cable remake with Kate Winslet is a lot closer to Cain's novel and also shows the scenes with which you mentioned, and you are right....Mildred does shoulder a lot of the blame for Veda turning out the way she did by spoiling her all the time. Maybe if (SPOILERS) her other daughter had lived on, Mildred might have acted more like a responsible, disciplined parent.

Bert, lousy husband as he may have been, at least saw through Veda and wasn't willing to jump over hoops to please her selfish desires the way Mildred did.

I agree.  If Kay (Ray in the book) hadn't died, Veda may have turned out differently.  I felt that Veda was somewhat grounded with Kay around.  She still expresses her unhappiness about things Mildred does for her, like in the beginning of the film when Veda opens the dress that Mildred had purchased for her.  I don't blame Veda for disliking it, the dress was a bit twee for her, but the way she expressed her unhappiness was rude.  However, Veda's true colors really didn't show until after her sister's death.  Perhaps she blames Mildred in some way for Kay's death? It is implied in the film and in the book, that the family was not happy that Mildred was not at home when they returned from Lake Arrowhead with sick Kay.  While Mildred was with Monty in both the book and the film, in the film she's only with Monty for the afternoon.  In the book, Mildred was with Monty all weekend where they did more than just swim.  If I remember right, in the book, everyone knows where Mildred's been and correctly jumps to their own conclusions as to what and whom she was doing.  In the book and the film, the family implies that Mildred is putting her own pleasures ahead of those of her family.  

Somewhere along the line, Veda had to have developed her disdain for her mother.  I know much of it stems from a shallow desire for material objects, but in the book and the film, Veda seems to vehemently hate her mother.  Though in the book and the film, Veda has moments of seeming to care about Mildred, but I feel like these moments are generally a facade.

In the HBO remake (which I'd like to see, I like Kate Winslet), does Veda have an extensive vocabulary for someone her age? The book refers to Veda as speaking in a haughty, condescending manner using all kinds of bizarre words and terms that no 11-13 year old would use--not even a 1930s teenager! The movie seems to kind of tone down Veda's pretentious speaking style. 

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Veda in the remake does use more of the vocabulary from the Veda in Cain's novel than the one in the 1945 film.

As much as I like the 1945 MILDRED PIERCE, I feel the ending was a copout (but then the Production Code insisted that Veda be punished for her wicked behavior). The ending of the remake closely corresponded to Cain's book and is much more satisfying if only because Mildred FINALLY realized once and for all that nothing she did or ever would do, no matter how hard she tried to win her daughter's love and tried to please her, absolutely NOTHING was going to change Veda's contempt for her.

 

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1 minute ago, Bethluvsfilms said:

Veda in the remake does use more of the vocabulary from the Veda in Cain's novel than the one in the 1945 film.

As much as I like the 1945 MILDRED PIERCE, I feel the ending was a copout (but then the Production Code insisted that Veda be punished for her wicked behavior). The ending of the remake closely corresponded to Cain's book and is much more satisfying if only because Mildred FINALLY realized once and for all that nothing she did or ever would do, no matter how hard she tried to win her daughter's love and tried to please her, absolutely NOTHING was going to change Veda's contempt for her.

 

I haven't gotten to the end of the book, so I don't want to spoil it for myself.  I do imagine that the book will end differently as I know that the production code wouldn't let Veda get away with her behavior.  Once again Mildred was prepared to cover for Veda, even going as far as confessing to the crime, but the police wouldn't allow her.  I thought Veda got the last jab in when she said something to the affect of "Don't worry mother, I'll get along" when she's being escorted to jail.  The ending of the film is tragic for Mildred Pierce.  She really has nothing to show for everything she endured throughout the film.  Her youngest daughter is dead, her oldest daughter is in jail.  Her second husband is dead.  Her business is failing.  She's pretty much back where she started, except in a bigger house, which will inevitably get repossessed unless Ida can help Mildred pull her business back together. 

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flat,800x800,075,t.u1.jpg

"Veda this, Veda that. If you don't pitchfork the little ****, I'll do it."

Edited by TCMModerator1
Edited for Language
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I'd say that creepy Lee Marvin in The Big Heat had clearly earned a pitchfork in the gizzard, except that Gloria Grahame beat me to it by throwing a pot of scalding hot water in his face. To give him a pitchfork, too, kinda seems like over kill.

lee-marvin-and-gloria-grahame-the-big-he

 

Oh, what the hell. FORK HIM!!!

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13 hours ago, TomJH said:

I'd say that creepy Lee Marvin in The Big Heat had clearly earned a pitchfork in the gizzard, except that Gloria Grahame beat me to it by throwing a pot of scalding hot water in his face. To give him a pitchfork, too, kinda seems like over kill.

Oh, what the hell. FORK HIM!!!

Marvin played a few character that deserved to be pitchforked but one that didn't was in the film The Professionals.  I just saw this film and it is a very good film with a lot of fine actors (Lancaster, Ryan, Marvin, Palance, Woody Strode, and Ralph Bellamy).

BUT the one that deserves the pitchfork in this film is Ralph Bellamy.   What a cad!    I found it humorous that Marvin ends up being the compassionate one and normally sweet and loving (but sometimes not too bright) Bellamy ends up being pitchforkable.      

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8 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Marvin played a few character that deserved to be pitchforked but one that didn't was in the film The Professionals.  I just saw this film and it is a very good film with a lot of fine actors (Lancaster, Ryan, Marvin, Palance, Woody Strode, and Ralph Bellamy).

BUT the one that deserves the pitchfork in this film is Ralph Bellamy.   What a cad!    I found it humorous that Marvin ends up being the compassionate one and normally sweet and loving (but sometimes not too bright) Bellamy ends up being pitchforkable.      

It's my understanding that Marvin was drinking so much during the making of The Professionals that Burt Lancaster would have loved to have had a pitchfork on their location set. Nevertheless, it doesn't show on screen.

Among other things Marvin has one of the great closing lines of dialogue in that film.

Bellamy: "You bastard!"

Marvin: "Yes, sir, in my case an accident of birth. But you, sir, you are a self made man."

The Professionals is one of my favourites, too, with solid work by all cast members, including that pitchfork worthy Ralph Bellamy.

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