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Ray - -

 

I've always thought of Cary Grant as a bisexual person.

 

All the evidence I've seen about it points to that.

 

I would say the same thing about Tyrone Power.

 

 

Can you give me some kind of a definition or something that we can go with you.

You can look at the societal demands that were placed upon them as factors. But why do people have failed marriages? And I just can't help but think that there are some people who are simply bisexual.

 

Not everybody is one or the other.

 

If I had my druthers, I think I'd go along more with Tyrone Power being a predominantly gay man.

 

But people don't have to be one thing or the other--they can go through phases or they can simply have percentages of their sexuality on different levels.

 

Have you ever thought of that?

 

I really don't know for sure about any of these people because I didn't know them personally. I'm just throwing out theories.

 

But Cary Grant acted like a real bisexual person to me, according to the life that he led.

 

Ray, I'm not trying to tell you that you are wrong and I'm right,but I just want you to think about some of the things that I said because I know you've got an open mind.

You are right, Princess, there are so many "colors" on the sexual spectrum.

 

With me, personally, it is all a "matter of perception" - from what I've seen on the screen with certain actors and from what I've read about certain stars.

 

Then, I come to my own conclusions - right or wrong.

 

And I am not saying that I am always right, either.

 

As for Tyrone Power, Cary Grant and Robert Taylor, just to name a few, I do think that they began their movie lives as gay men, but, when it became apparent that they would probably achieve stardom, they were forced back into the closet and even forced to adopt a heterosexual facade.

 

Anthony Perkins is another case in point, he was a gay man and tried to be straight.

 

Did he want to be straight?  No, probably not.  But he wanted a film career.  And he found a woman who liked gay men.

 

Today, so many young actors do not want to play "this kind of game".

 

And, rightly, so, too.

 

They feel that they are entitled to their sexuality and to the happiness that it can bring them.

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Grant and Power projected a heterosexual persona in their films- you can read what ever you want into them now- ( they were both probably bi-sexual or gay-)  but at the movies they were and remain straight romantic icons.   I doubt they would have had the same career if they had come as gay during their lifetime- Grant kept of getting married and had a daughter.   In the case of Matt Bomer it will be interesting to see which way his career will go now that he is out.  He looks like a classic Hollywood romantic leading man- but in his last few films and tv shows he has played gay  and a bisexual vampire.

Jaragon, I agree with you, it will be very interesting to follow Matt Bomer's career - he won an Emmy Award for his outstanding and shattering performance in the TV film, "The Normal Heart".

 

He does play "gay" very well.

 

And he did play "straight" in both of the "Magic Mike" movies.

 

He does look like "a classic Hollywood leading man" so, hopefully, he will be given these chances.

 

And, don't forget, that Rock Hudson, who was thoroughly gay, played the classic Hollywood leading man throughout his entire career.

 

It can be done - and done well.

 

If Matt Bomer, who is constantly seen with his husband and children, gets such an opportunity on the big screen - and moviegoers know everything - or enough - about his private life, too - I do not think that these very same moviegoers will reject him as a romantic lead.

 

Today's moviegoers are far more sophisticated.

 

And more acquainted with "the colors within the sexual spectrum".

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I followed Cary Grant's career for over 50 years.

 

The fact that people get divorced and remarried many times has nothing to do with their sexuality. Necessarily. That's Hollywood. Elizabeth Taylor was married 7 times does that make her gay?

 

There are many issues with Cary Grant. But the one that stands out in my mind is Sophia Loren, Betsy Drake and Houseboat.

 

Whether or not a person is gay or bisexual, I guess you have to ask them.

 

There were gay movie stars who married gay people for cover, there were gay movie stars who married straight people for cover and they were bisexual movie stars who married bisexual people because that's what they wanted to do.

 

Vincente Minnelli is a good example of this.

 

Married 4X with two daughters and a real gay sexual life. There's nothing else you can read into that except he's bisexual. And if you get married as a cover nobody's forcing you to have two daughters, by two different women.

 

I never heard of your actor named Matt Bomer- - it sounds like he has the problems that a lot of black actors and a lot of older actresses have.

 

Prejudice and bigotry is alive and well. Matt should be able to play any part that he's good enough and qualified to play.

 

Jar-- I also doubt if Merle Oberon would have had a career if people had known that she was an Indian half-caste. It was cute for Ava Gardner to play a half caste in Bhowani Junction, directed by George Cukor, the real deal with Merle Oberon would have been boycotted, and then ended her career.

 

Jar--Maybe things haven't changed as much as we wish that they would have.

Princess, if Vincente Minnelli were alive - and working - today, I do wonder if he would've gotten married and had children.

 

So many people who were acquainted with him SAW a deeply closeted gay man.

 

And, let's face it, his directorial sensibilities are those of a gay man

 

And that remark is meant as a compliment, not as a condemnation.

 

Only a gay man could've given us the magnificence of "Meet Me In St. Louis". 

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Things have changed because actors can be out and still have successful careers look Ian Mckellen, Zachary Quinto- Matt Bomer seems to be doing well too

Jaragon, a most recent case in point -

 

Ezra Miller, who is openly gay and calls himself "queer" and was so memorable in "The Perks of Being A Wallflower", has just played Barry Allen/The Flash" in "Batman v. Superman: Dawn Of Justice" and will be repeating the role in next year's "Justice League: Part One". 

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Princess, if Vincente Minnelli were alive - and working - today, I do wonder if he would've gotten married and had children.

 

So many people who were acquainted with him SAW a deeply closeted gay man.

 

And, let's face it, his directorial sensibilities are those of a gay man

 

And that remark is meant as a compliment, not as a condemnation.

 

Only a gay man could've given us the magnificence of "Meet Me In St. Louis".

Vincente Minnelli was a great director because he had such profound versatility.

 

I would suggest you look at Home from the Hill starring Robert Mitchum, the Bad and the Beautiful starring Kirk Douglas and Some Came Running starring Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin. These are all first-rate, Academy Award nominated movies. These films have nothing in common with those beautiful MGM musicals.

 

Although I may prefer his Meet Me in St. Louis, An American in Paris or The Bandwagon - -

 

You can't stereotype a great cinematic director.

 

Vincente Minnelli was a genius concerning his knowledge and facility with 19th century and 20th century art. I think you can be a great artist, an art designer and or a connoisseur of art without being gay.

 

But, Ray, I do agree with you that Minnelli's sexual proclivities enhanced his abilities in cinematic art.

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Vincente Minnelli was a great director because he had such profound versatility.

 

I would suggest you look at Home from the Hill starring Robert Mitchum, the Bad and the Beautiful starring Kirk Douglas and Some Came Running starring Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin. These are all first-rate, Academy Award nominated movies. These films have nothing in common with those beautiful MGM musicals.

 

Although I may prefer his Meet Me in St. Louis, An American in Paris or The Bandwagon - -

 

You can't stereotype a great cinematic director.

 

Vincente Minnelli was a genius concerning his knowledge and facility with 19th century and 20th century art. I think you can be a great artist, an art designer and or a connoisseur of art without being gay.

 

But, Ray, I do agree with you that Minnelli's sexual proclivities enhanced his abilities in cinematic art.

I would agree with you, Princess, that Vincente Minnelli had two sides to his directorial personality - the side represented by "Meet Me In St. Louis" and the side represented by "The Bad And The Beautiful".

 

And that mixture brought him great acclaim - he was MGM's highest-paid director.

 

I can always watch a Vincente Minnelli movie - again.

 

Even the ones that aren't that good like "The Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse". 

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Ray-- have you ever thought about starting a thread, where we can discuss gay directors like George Cukor, James Whale or Dorothy Arzner?

No, I haven't.

 

So far, being on the LGBT forum has been enough for me.

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First of all, I am thrilled about the fact that people can live openly the way they want. It must be horrible to hide who you are.

 

That being said, who were these movie stars? 

 

An actor was once asked if he had ever had sex with a man. He said, "Are you kidding? I'm an actor. I've done everything."

 

Lyle Talbot said, "You people think you invented free love. You have no idea what it was to be young and beautiful in the '30s. Everybody was sleeping with everybody else."

 

That's pretty much what I think was going on from my own research and from talking with many people over the years. You're dealing with young people, many who came from sheltered or poor environments, who now have some money, some success, and are surrounded by beautiful people, alcohol, and probably cocaine.

 

So I believe there was a lot of sleeping around and experimenting. Were all these people bisexual?I don't think so.  They covered a whole spectrum.

 

You can't look like Tyrone Power, just as a for instance, and not have both sexes throwing themselves at you. I am sure he did everything just like anybody else. I'll focus on him because I know the most about him.

 

Sexuality to me isn't gay or straight, there are shades in between.  I know two bisexual men who are married with children and madly in love with their wives. That doesn't mean they denied the other part of their lives. But they love women, too.  Tyrone Power loved women - many, including later in life when he lived with Mai Zetterling.  

 

We hear a lot about these studio heads forcing people to get married.  Not Zanuck.  When Tyrone wanted to marry Annabella, Zanuck was so desperate to get her away from him that he offered her some movies in Europe. She refused to go.  She had been a huge star in France and in essence gave up her career to marry him and stay with him. I've read her letters, and she asks in one of them "our little baby, why didn't he come" - they tried so hard, but she couldn't have another child. I knew her daughter and one of her best friends. 

 

I don't think Tyrone's marriages meant that he was denying another part of his life, but he was sure in love with Linda Christian, Lana Turner, etc. 

 

I have no idea about Cary Grant's sexuality. We've all heard things but what do we know?

 

As for Robert Taylor, he was 100 percent heterosexual whether or not he ever had an encounter with a man. I don't know why people think that - not true.  I worked on the Stanwyck book with Victoria Wilson.  He was the great love of Stanwyck's life, and it broke her heart when they divorced. She also was in love with her first husband, Frank Fay.  She had a botched abortion as a kid and could never have children after that.  We did a lot of interviews and she had a lot of affairs with men, which was such a shock to the author that it made page six of the NY Post!

 

I think a lot of men and women pretended in front of the press, but I also think they lived their lives the way they wanted to when the camera wasn't on them.  It's great that people come out now, but I still don't think it's anyone's business.

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Tab Hunter whom I don't think was bisexual from what he said, but gay, met a woman he almost married. But he didn't think it would be right for either of them.  If anyone here hasn't seen Tab Hunter Confidential - it's fantastic.

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First of all, I am thrilled about the fact that people can live openly the way they want. It must be horrible to hide who you are.

 

That being said, who were these movie stars? 

 

An actor was once asked if he had ever had sex with a man. He said, "Are you kidding? I'm an actor. I've done everything."

 

Lyle Talbot said, "You people think you invented free love. You have no idea what it was to be young and beautiful in the '30s. Everybody was sleeping with everybody else."

 

That's pretty much what I think was going on from my own research and from talking with many people over the years. You're dealing with young people, many who came from sheltered or poor environments, who now have some money, some success, and are surrounded by beautiful people, alcohol, and probably cocaine.

 

So I believe there was a lot of sleeping around and experimenting. Were all these people bisexual?I don't think so.  They covered a whole spectrum.

 

You can't look like Tyrone Power, just as a for instance, and not have both sexes throwing themselves at you. I am sure he did everything just like anybody else. I'll focus on him because I know the most about him.

 

Sexuality to me isn't gay or straight, there are shades in between.  I know two bisexual men who are married with children and madly in love with their wives. That doesn't mean they denied the other part of their lives. But they love women, too.  Tyrone Power loved women - many, including later in life when he lived with Mai Zetterling.  

 

We hear a lot about these studio heads forcing people to get married.  Not Zanuck.  When Tyrone wanted to marry Annabella, Zanuck was so desperate to get her away from him that he offered her some movies in Europe. She refused to go.  She had been a huge star in France and in essence gave up her career to marry him and stay with him. I've read her letters, and she asks in one of them "our little baby, why didn't he come" - they tried so hard, but she couldn't have another child. I knew her daughter and one of her best friends. 

 

I don't think Tyrone's marriages meant that he was denying another part of his life, but he was sure in love with Linda Christian, Lana Turner, etc. 

 

I have no idea about Cary Grant's sexuality. We've all heard things but what do we know?

 

As for Robert Taylor, he was 100 percent heterosexual whether or not he ever had an encounter with a man. I don't know why people think that - not true.  I worked on the Stanwyck book with Victoria Wilson.  He was the great love of Stanwyck's life, and it broke her heart when they divorced. She also was in love with her first husband, Frank Fay.  She had a botched abortion as a kid and could never have children after that.  We did a lot of interviews and she had a lot of affairs with men, which was such a shock to the author that it made page six of the NY Post!

 

I think a lot of men and women pretended in front of the press, but I also think they lived their lives the way they wanted to when the camera wasn't on them.  It's great that people come out now, but I still don't think it's anyone's business.

One of the big surprises in Farley Granger's autobiography is that he went to bed with Barbara Stanwyck.

 

She pulled no punches - she wanted him, took him home and bedded him.

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I used to do a weekly film podcast, and one of the things I used to say is that a lot of the appeal of the big movie stars was their androgyny.  Something for everyone, I guess.

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Yes, but Rupert Everett ruined his face.

As is quite evident in "Miss Peregrine's Home For Peculiar Children".

 

Why do actors feel the need to grow "younger".

 

Rupert Everett would've aged beautifully.

 

When he was living in the West Village, I would see him on the street.

 

He was strikingly handsome.

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