Gregory1965
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Posts posted by Gregory1965
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Thanks for the explanation - it helps my understanding quite a bit.
I remember one time, about 1990, going to a screening of Designing Woman (MGM/1957) at the Bing theater in L.A. and they had to substitute another film at the last minute because the print they were sent had turned into all shades of red and pink. I remember thinking at the time - "how can this be? - the movie is only 30 years old, not 70+" like the lost and damaged films I already knew about. That occurrence is a big part of why I'm still wondering if even later films can and will ever be totally lost.
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Correct - but the films didn't disintegrate until years later. Or, as with the MGM fire in the '60s large chunks of films were destroyed at once.
But what I'm wondering is if there are there films that were not transferred to safety stock but which were re-broadcast much later, perhaps even fairly recently, that have now, finally, gone to rest forever?
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For drama: Bogart & Bacall
For comedy: Hope & Crosby
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I've been thinking lately about all of the old films that have been designated lost over the years, and of course I've seen the images of the old nitrate film stock rotting away in canisters where they've been sitting neglected for decades on end - all entirely unsalvageable.
But I'm curious about something I can't find the answer to and thought maybe some of the knowledgeable folks here might know: Do films that were useable and have been broadcast in the past 10, 20 or however many years (perhaps even on TCM) still reach a point of disintegration where the remaining prints become so unusable as to be considered "lost films"?
I wonder if there are films that some of us here have seen broadcast in our own lifetimes (for the 70 and under crowd anyway) that are now lost. Does anyone know the answer to this?
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There are still HUGE stars today - Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, Reese Witherspoon, Tom Hanks, Julia Roberts - These actors bring many millions of dollars in ticket sales when a movie opens, simply by their appearance in it. That's star power.
I think what you (and I agree) are noticing is that the stars of today - and the public at large is responsible for making this so - have no *glamour* and that glamour is not something that is valued as a desirable asset anymore. I think each one of the actors I mentioned above has the talent, beauty and engaging personality to be a star in any era, but what makes them seem less likeble to those of us who hold the stars of the studio system in such high regard is that they're simply not glamorous in the way that movie star used to be.
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Susan Sarandon and Geena Davis in Thelma and Louise.
Andrea Leeds in Stage Door
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I've always found this to be an interesting topic. I love all three performances, but have long been curious to know how each of them were perceived in their own time. I did some digging and found some newspaper mentions regarding the 1951 oscar race that I found interesting, if not entirely conclusive in helping me figure out whether Holliday was indeed an upset or a favorite. Here are some highlights for anyone else who might be interested. Sorry it's so lengthy, but I wanted to put together as complete a picture as I could. I've also included some items about Holliday's and Ferrer's "Red" accusations that came just days after they won their Oscars.
*?ALL ABOUT EVE? TOPS AP POLL ON BEST 1950 MOVIE*
Hollywood, January 15, 1951
?All About Eve? tops an Associated Press poll of 100 leading Hollywood correspondents on the best movie of 1950. Judy Holliday, Bette Davis and Gloria Swanson are virtually tied for best-actress honors.
?A sizzling race among ballots on the year?s best actress showed: Miss Holliday, as the dumb blonde heroine of ?Born Yesterday? ? 32 votes. Miss Davis, Broadway star of ?Eve? ? 31 ? votes. Miss Swanson, the old-time movie star in ?Sunset Boulevard? ? 30 ? votes.
The near photo-finish among starring actresses indicates a close race for the movie ?Oscar.? Last year?s similar AP poll accurately foretold the Academy Awards.
*DAVIS, SWANSON VIE FOR HONORS*
Hollywood, February 12, 1951 (U.P.)
Bette Davis and Gloria Swanson, both over-40 movie queens, were nominated tonight for best-actress honors in 1950 ?Oscar? awards, along with three younger actresses ? Judy Holliday, Eleanor Parker and Anne Baxter. (The article then goes on to list the other nominees)
*BETTE, GLORIA AND JUDY FIGHT IT OUT FOR OSCAR*
Hollywood - February 13, 1951 (AP)
A three-way battle among Bette Davis, Judy Holliday and Gloria Swanson was predicted today as Hollywood studied nominations for 1950 Academy Awards. (The article then goes on to list all the nominees, and favors Jose Ferrer for best actor)
*Ed Sullivan ? LITTLE OLD NEW YORK*
? February 28, 1951
March has been a lucky month for Gloria Swanson, obviously. She was born on March 27.
Some of that March luck may brush off on her on March 29, when the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences returns the annual ballots. Her chief competion is to be furnished by Bette Davis and Judy Holliday. This department is rooting for Gloria to win, for a variety of sentimental reasons: Bette has won it before and Judy is young enough to have many more chance at it.
*FIDLER IN HOLLYWOOD*
March 14, 1951
Hollywood studio bosses are doing ecstatic nip-ups just now about a whole host of promising finds. And it must be admitted there is reason for the nip-ups. Players like Paula Raymond, John Barrymore Jr., Fernando Lamas, Debra Paget, Sally Forrest, Tony Curtis, Piper Laurie, Keefe Brasselle, Mala Powers, Marlon Brando, Jeff Chandler, Judy Holliday, Peggy Dow, Pier Angeli, Howard Keel, Jeff Chandler (sic ? so nice, they named him twice), and Micheline Prelle (sic) to mention only a few of the recent recruits are precisely the kind of new blood that can give the movie industry a much-needed transfusion. But, with all due respect to these new purveyors of screen romance, I?m much inclined to believe that the most valuable find of 1950 is very apt to be, when all the proofs are in, a middle-aged, un-romantic actress named Thelma Ritter!
*RADIO LISTENERS PRE-PICK OSCARS*
March 20, 1951 (AP)
If 30,000 radio listeners are right, here are the winners of the academy awards ? 10 days ahead of time.
Best Actor ? William Holden, ?Sunset Boulevard?
Best Actress ? Judy Holliday, ?Born Yesterday?
The nationwide CBS poll has been going on for five years and listeners have been right every time, says commentator George Fisher who conducts it.
Holden?s margin was startling ? 2 to 1 over the rest of the field. Most polls have conceded victory to Jose Ferrer for ?Cyrano de Bergerac?, which has not yet been released in many cities.
Miss Holliday topped Bette Davis (?All About Eve?) by a comfortable margin, but ?Born Yesterday? led ?All About Eve? by only a whisker in popular favor.
*FAVORITES FOR OSCARS JITTERY, CHEW FINGERNAILS*
Hollywood, March 28 (UP)
Favorites to win Oscars admitted Wednesday they had the nervous jitters, but probable losers at the Academy Awards Thursday night yawned they weren?t scared at all.
?Nominee Eleanor Parker agreed with armchair experts that Bette Davis, Judy Holliday and Gloria Swanson will tussle for the best actress honors. ?Therefore I am not worried or nervous,? she said. ?Why should I be? I?m sure I won?t win. Naturally I?ll attend the awards because it?s a great event.?
*FERRER, HOLLIDAY CHOICE IN GUESS*
Hollywood, March 29 (AP)
Daily Variety, the film trade paper which correctly predicted last year?s Academy Awards winners, today picked the movie ?All About Eve? as the winner of this year?s Oscar derby. The paper says Jose Ferrer will win the award as best actor for his performance in ?Cyrano de Bergerac,? and Judy Holliday the best actress award for her ?Born Yesterday? role. The awards will be announced tonight.
*Hollywood, March 29 (AP)*
?Best last-minute bets on the winners appear to be these: For best actress, Judy Holliday (?Born Yesterday?) or Miss Davis (?All About Eve?). Best actor, Ferrer, (?Cyrano de Bergerac?) or possibly William Holden (a dark horse for ?Sunset Boulevard?)
*Hollywood, March 29 (U.P)*
Judy Holliday won the coveted best-actress ?Oscar? tonight for her brassy portrayal of a dumb blonde in ?Born Yesterday? ? but she had to accept it by remote control.
?Miss Holliday, the be-dimpled star of ?Born Yesterday? had to accept her ?Oscar? by proxy. She is in New York where she had been scheduled to listen to a thunderous ovation over 3000 miles of telephone wire. Judy romped off with the top award in her first starring role ? that of a junk dealer?s slightly daffy ?girl friend? in the part that zoomed her to the top on Broadway.
*JUDY HOLLIDAY, FERRER WIN FILM ACADEMY?S TOP AWARDS*
Hollywood, March 29 (AP)
Judy Holliday, the junk dealer?s squeaky-voiced babe in ?Born Yesterday? won the Academy Award last night from two mature actresses, Gloria Swanson and Bette Davis.
?It was a stunning victory for Miss Holliday. In her second important picture, the shapely New Yorker captured the honors away from the highly touted performances of Miss Swanson in ?Sunset Boulevard? and Miss Davis in ?All About Eve?
Miss Holliday nearly missed playing the role of Billie Dawn, which she created in the New York stage play. Columbia studios tested many other actresses before selecting her. Ethel Barrymore accepted the award in her absence, lauding a ?radiant performance.?
?Miss Holliday broke into sobs and could only say: ?I?m beside myself with excitement.?
?Except for the heated race for the top female Oscar there was little suspense. And the fact that none of the leading winners would apparently be present put a damper on the festivities.
*Hollywood, March 29 (AP)*
??All About Eve? a sophisticated look behind the footlights of Broadway, featuring Anne Baxter trying to usurp the crown of matinee queen Bette Davis won nominations for both of them as best actress.
But Miss Holliday, playing the dumb blonde of ?Born Yesterday? in the comedy hit of the year, edged them both out.
?Miss Holliday?s choice over Gloria Swanson (?Sunset ?Boulevard?) was the closest thing to a major upset during the evening. Pre-award polls had largely given the veteran Miss Swanson and edge.
*FILM WINNERS LINKED TO REDS*
*NAMES ASSOCIATED WITH ?PEACE? MOVES*
Washington, April 4 (AP)
Academy Award winners Jose Ferrer and Judy Holliday, and two prominent university scientists, were listed today by the House Un-American Activities Committee among those whose names have been associated with the current Communist ?peace offensive.?
Their names, with scores of others, appeared in a 166 page report just issued by the committee analyzing the peace offensive, which it called ?the most dangerous hoax ever devised by the international Communist conspiracy.?
Ferrer, who won the coveted Academy Award for his role in ?Cyrano de Bergerac? is under subpoena for appearance soon in the committee?s investigation of Communism in Hollywood. He emphatically denies any Red leanings.
His name and that of Miss Holliday, who won this year?s Oscar as the dumb blonde in ?Born Yesterday,? were listed among persons purportedly affiliated with from five to 10 Communist-front organizations.
The committee also named them among sponsors of the Scientific and Cultural Conference for World Peace in New York, in 1949, which it identified as the start of the ?peace? campaign in the United States.
*TOP OSCAR TEAM DENIES ANY RED FRONT LINK-UPS*
Washington, Apr. 5 (INS)
?Publication of the name of Miss Holliday who won her award for her part in ?Born Yesterday,? drew a quick denial.
Miss Holliday issued a statement denying the committee assertions, and declared that ?I am not now and never have been a member of the Communist party.?
Message was edited by: Gregory1965
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And of course the line preceding "three-five-zero-zero" along with the gospel style of music in which it's sung reminds us that a disproportionate number of those dispatched to Vietnam in late '65/early '66 were black.
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Trust me Kyle, I looooove Lauren Bacall and can watch any of her films over and over and over - except this one. It's really painful.
There was a book back in the '90s called Bad Movies We Love. I used to watch lots of the films it recommended for their camp value (Portrait In Black, Where Love Has Gone, The Carpetbaggers, etc) and The Cobweb was included favorably - but even as campy kitsch this is still tough-going to watch all the way through.
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The cigarettes in Now Voyager
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Very sad indeed - Do you know the cause of his death?
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But didn't Shakespeare steal that "sound and fury" line from some screenwiter guy named William Faulkner anyway?
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Also keep in mind that the theater isn't doing this for charity - they need to be able to make money at it. With 7 million people in NYC you're bound to get a turnout for most anything - even those titles mostly known to us film buffs. In most other places the theater owners will want to cast a wider net by chosing the most popular films to bring in the largest audience.
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The 'intercostal clavicle' in Bringing Up Baby
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Young Man With a Horn In Bed
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The Film Forum in NYC also has their UA anniversary tribute starting this month and I can't wait. (It starts on 3/28). They've done a nice job of representing the overall scope, including multiple films from Pickford, Fairbanks, Griffith and Chaplin.
The entired schedule can be viewed here:
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Good day sir, ... I said GOOD DAY SIR.
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Otter - My guess is that the "sudden influx" of new members is due to increased branding of TCM.com by the station itself. TCM is now reaping the benefit of their new logo bug and other branding devices.
Whether one personally regards this as a "good" or "bad" thing for the message boards, I'm sure that corporately it is exactly what they hoped to see happen - more loyal viewers participating in the dialogue of film and further entrenching their loyalty and viewership.
I would guess that as the .com branding continues, so will the number of new members contributing to the boards and so too the increased number and greater diversity of topics will continue as well. Personally I think it's great, but I can see how some who enjoyed things the way they were, won't.
The times, they are a changin'.
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I haven't seen many of her films, but I do enjoy what I have seen. I liked her a lot in Feet First, thought she was beautiful - even opposite the luminescent Garbo - in Flesh and the Devil, and she's appealing in the otherwise dreadful Vanity Fair.
I wish she wasn't so reclusive. As one of the last living silent film stars I'll bet she has some stories to tell - even if she won't.
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Poor Ben Turpin - the character looks so maligned, but how wonderful would it be to live in a world where it rains doughnuts? Yum.
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For me - and I'm sure many others here too - the movie stars have a lot to do with what makes certain older films classics "just because they're old". Even a cruddy Myrna Loy film (or substitute your personal fave here) is a classic because of her presence in it and her status as a classic movie star. For fans of the stars, that's a big part of why we watch and why we're willing to watch what may not have been the best productions.
Jump ahead 70 years and this becomes much less true, or at least not so much why I watch TCM. If I want to see a lesser Reese Witherspoon - I'll rent it. And in viewing it, it certainly would NOT fit my definition of a classic by any stretch of the imagination.
Message was edited by: Gregory1965
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On the 1910 census her age is listed as "5" which also makes the 1904/5 birthdate seem more likely.
And while censuses are often filled with errors, I'm guessing they'd know whether or not they had a 5 year old in their house rather than a 2 year old. And certainly no reason to shave a few years off the age of a youngster just in case she might get famous some day.
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And when I see her in Grease I usually think: How funny to see her so old.
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I love that Lucille LeSueur will be 103 this year while Joan Crawford turns 100. I need to create an alter ego too so I can knock off some of this excess age I've been carrying around.
Old & New Pairings
in General Discussions
Posted
Harrison Ford and Jennifer Jones
Leonardo de Caprio and Jeanne Crain
Gregory Hines and Eleanor Powell
Alan Ladd and Rene Zellweger
Jack Black and Joan Blondell
Tom Hanks and Claudette Colbert
Cary Grant and Nicole Kidman
Spencer Tracy and Meryl Streep