Tikisoo
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Posts posted by Tikisoo
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Wow-I love debate, hope I haven't angered anyone here. I really love your challenges & explanations to my post.
OK, so now I understand Tom, that your definition of swashbuckler *is* narrow. If you are going to be that narrow, then I think it's wholly logical your idea of "great swashbucklers" will also be few & far between.
Apparently, my definition is a bit broader, so therefore several earlier mentioned films qualify as falling within the genre. It's like any other genre, there will be several films that fall within the "gray area" depending on individual opinions.
Does ROBIN HOOD - MEN IN TIGHTS qualify as a swashbuckler? It contains *all* your points, not just elements, as you say. Or do you discount it because it's comedy? (notice I didn't say "qualify as a GOOD swashbuckler, heh)
And Kino, thanks for your rebuttal to my statements too. It's thoughtless to say all encompassing statements like I did about silents/talkies.
Sure there are many silents that I like, but I've sat through an awful lot of overlong, slowly paced silent films directed by those who went on to learn their craft much better by time they were making talkies. This is probably mostly due to maturity rather than format.
I think this is why Chaplin stand out so much for me as "better" silents. His films are pretty fast paced and are beautifully edited. We know how much effort he put into them, no "crank 'em out" films for him.
And yes, many early talkies are clumsy, but I chalk that up to re-learning filmmaking techniques due to the transition.
But I stand by my opinion the '24 THEIF OF BAGDAD is a swashbuckler type adventure and isn't a very good one. OK, maybe it's not because it is a silent, but it's just too slowly paced.
Since I've been seeing silents screened since my teen years, I can honestly say they are much better enjoyed with an audience & live accompanyment than watching them on TV. Not sure why this is.
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I got home only to catch the last 20-30 minutes of DANCE GIRL DANCE and kicked myself for not recording it. The end was great, Lucy never looked more gorgeous (as does Mo'O'Hara) and funnily, the male lead reminded me of Desi.
I loved Lucy in LURED and it would have made a great double set-one with Lucy as good gal and one with Lucy as a nasty gal.
> It's odd about Lucy in movies. She's as pretty as Carole Lombard, as talented as all the other character actors, but still doesn't 'fill' the screen for me as other stars (like Lombard) do. I want to love her in movies, but I can't put my finger on it, she doesn't have 'it'.
Could it be her squeeky thin voice? She often gives a fast delivery too. Think of Lucy's delivery vs Eve Arden's whose voice drips with sarcasm. Also I notice she doesn't use her body as much in film as other actresses. She sure made up for it when she hit TV.
Geez, I think Lucy's WAY prettier than Lombard. I never understood why Lombard became such a big star.
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What an interesting conversation with so many intelligent contributing posts!
I've often wondered if it's the lighting and the fact that they're often in b&w makes a difference? Real life lighting is harsh and old films are kind of otherwordly because they are b&w, making the stars look "dreamy".
I recently watched a DVD of Ed Sullivan's show highlights. I was IMMEDIATELY struck by the wide variety of faces; Barbra Streisand, Moms Mabley, Phyllis Diller, George Carlin, Bill Cosby etc.
It was as if unusual faces were not only accepted, but *celebrated* in the 60's. Today, people really look "homogenized" almost as though the last few generations has bred out big noses, thin faces, buck teeth, etc.
I can't think of more boring looking celebrities than the "forever adolescent" stars we have today, Dobbs.
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>the original Star Wars is a modern swashbuckler. It was certainly recalling the classic swordfight scene.
>NO! NO! NO! Star Wars cannot be called a swashbuckler, modern or any other kind, in my opinion. I've never been a fan of the George Lucas film and, if it was a swashbuckler, it would only support my thesis that they don't make good ones anymore.
(italics, added by TS)
Tom, you gotta give us a better reason STAR WARS isn't a "modern swashbuckler" than *you* don't like it.
I mentioned REAP THE WILD WIND and you rejected that too without any explanation.
I agree with Capuchin, and think that's an interesting observation. STAR WARS is a well paced & edited film. It includes adventure & exploration (albeit space instead of the sea). It includes swordfights, good vs evil, romance and all the elements of what most would consider a "swashbuckler".
Obviously, your definition eludes the rest of us.
Internet forums work best when there is a conversation with people contributing their opinions with some kind of argument to back their opinions.
Not just posts that continually say "NO, NO NO"
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>the beginning of this movie, vis-a-vis the extensive restoration of this long-lost film
I don't mean to be nit-picky but when did "vis-a-vis" which means "face to face" (meaning- comparing two) become "in other words" in American English?
I hear this erroneously used all the time on news shows.
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>I don't get the impression that anyone really disagrees with me. The great swashbucklers are few and far between
I think we ALL agree with you. It is a valid point, I wonder if it's just a difficult genre to pull off? (vs relatively easy gangster, noir or horror) Maybe it was too far a stretch for most people in the 30's-40's to get into this type of story. Not unlike today's kids having zero interest in cowboys on horses.
In another thread "star quality" is being discussed, I wonder if Flynn is just the perfect fit for this genre? There is just nothing not to like about Flynn-underrated actor in my opinion, pidgeonholed and sadly underused.
>I noticed that noone challenged my contention that the silent swashbucklers really can't compare
Agree again.
A perfect example is the '24 version of THEIF OF BAGDAD. Fairbanks certainly was pleasant to look at, but in my opinion that isn't enough to carry the film.
Also my opinion is that movie making didn't really hit it's stride until talkies. Many silents are slow moving and often miss the editing mark, so that may be a contributing factor.
>But to mention the Pirates of the Carribean series in the same context is an abomination.
LOL
>Don't directors know how to edit their work anymore? Action scenes that go on way too long, or that are just piled on one after another get tedious and spoil the actual thrill
Thank you, perfectly stated. This applies to just about everything I've been dragged to by TikiKid in the past 3 years at the enormoplex. (to be fair, she joined me for a screening of THE SEA HAWK...and thought it was "bo-ring")
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>This is a prime example of a movie that would not be worth watching, or even painful to watch, if not for the presence of one, or more, performers. You can really see what star presence means for electrifying the screen.
And I think you could include almost all the "greats" in this definition, like Dargo did.
Really, would THE WIZARD OF OZ be nearly as great without Margaret Hamilton, Judy Garland or Bert Lahr? Sure, the songs & cool sets/costumes help make it enjoyable, but it's the over-the-top performances that really make this movie timeless.
I think photography, music, writing (as Norma says, "talk, talk, talk") and directing are all important elements of movie making, but ultimately it's the performances of the actors that can make or break a film. A good actor can truly elevate plot holes & silly dialogue.
And in the same way, a weak actor can't hold up even the best writing.
That said, while I enjoyed RANDOM HARVEST, the plot line was so unbelievable, it's a film I'll never have to watch again.
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Well last night's THE OLD MAID was so confusing, I had to turn it off. Maybe I fell asleep for an instant and missed something, but Bette Davis said "I'll never give Tina up" then all of a sudden Tina was her sister's baby? Maybe it was subtle, but I didn't see the switch.
My favorite movie HERE COMES MR JORDAN has a hole I didn't realize until the upteenth viewing:
If Joe Pendleton was destined to be the champ, then why when he won the fight as Murdoch his memory was erased? If he had no memory as _ever_ being Joe, then Joe WASN'T the champ, Murdoch is.
Joe knew he was Joe in every other body and therefore influenced that person's charactor. As Murdoch, with no memory of ever being Joe, he simply became the person who's body he inhabited. Joe is completely gone.
But I love that movie because of James Gleason's performance. When he realizes Joe is no longer in Murdoch and is gone forever, it's the saddest finality.
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I pretty much agree with you there were far too few great swashbucklers made.
Are fencing duels your only criteria? Sure, I love fencing too, but it's only one element of the genre.
I was pleasantly surprised when watching my recording of REAP THE WILD WIND last night from Paulette Goddard day. I had no idea it was a *pirate* movie! And Paulette is adorable switching between gorgeous gowns and cute pirate costumes.
Haven't finished watching it, but I haven't seen a swordfight yet, but don't really care. It's still a sea adventure film with a good guy (John Wayne) versus a bad guy (Ray Milland in a goofy hairpiece) with a notable supporting cast.
And I agree with you about the new "pirate" franchise. "Disney" used to almost guarantee good family quality films and now "Disney" just stands for big budget junk. Sad.
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Re the OP:
Don't hold back, tell us what you really think.
Wow. I think Ben-man looks great and does a fine job. Glad he got rid of that insipid goatee that dated him, and appreciate the togs upgrade. Thought having a SUTS dedicated set was a class touch, but everything TCM does is top-drawer.
But then again, I'm one of the dreaded ids....
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It's funny so many agree Paulette could be plucked out of any movie and show up in 2011 and just not look out of place. At least this is how I've interpreted the posts saying she's "modern" looking.
I started out in the fashion industry (so I've some experience with hair/make up styles) but never been able to pinpoint what it *is* exactly.
Garbo sometimes has this quality but no one to the extent of Paulette. I've sometimes thought it is the "generic no style" hair style, lack of make up effects, (like eyeliner "wings" or cupid bow lipstick) that instantly dates a look.
Is it because her make up disappears?
So does Ingrid Bergman's, but her beauty while timeless, doesn't look the same as today's girl-like Paulette.
Most big stars look "dated" to their era; Claudette Colbert, Katherine Hepburn, Bette Davis, Audrey Hepburn. Not Paulette.
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Don't despair Kino, I can't tell you how many recordings I have with a few seconds of "noise" from the satellite. You pass by them quickly when watching. But it'll show again for another chance.
Sorry I was wrong about the book, it was written by Morella & Epstein. It's ISBN # is 0-312-59829-7. I got it for $7 on ABEBOOKS.com. (I steer clear of Amazon and instead support indie bookstores)
I was awakened by gunshots and ended up talking to a police officer at 3am. I figured I might as well make the best of it so I had a big bowl of corn puffs & enjoyed the last half hour of THE WOMEN. I can't tell you how much I hate Norma Shearer holding her arms out in that last shot-AWFUL!
Sorry, but I think Paulette was an exceptionally good actress as well as a knockout. Her delivery was really natural in POT O GOLD, you didn't even realize she was acting.
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Well I love Paulette Goddard and find her life & work fascinating. Read her autobio if you ever get the chance. I've seen every single one of her SUTS films several times so for the most part be skipping it.
The Tiki family recently saw a screening of MODERN TIMES at the Capitol Theater, and Mr Tiki couldn't get over how gorgeous Paulette was. He also thought the new THE WOMEN was a decent movie, yuk.
So I'll be recording that this evening and showing him what a really great movie looks like.
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>One of my favorites I saw this week was the 1958 movie SNOWFIRE. Has anyone else seen it?
I stumbled upon this and was immediately upset I didn't record it. I am creating a "horsey film library" for the students at my stable. This movie is a supreme example of what horses are NOT like in real life. For example; I owned a pure white horse for 30 years and she was only pure white for about 30 minutes after bathing. A wild horse would be covered in dirt, grass & manuer stains it's entire life.
Back to "best & worst"...
I yawned over the Red Skelton and Joe E Brown days. AN IDEAL HUSBAND put me to sleep despite fave Paulette Goddard.
I very much enjoyed seeing Josephine Baker for the first time in PRINCESSE TAM TAM. I can absolutely see why she was such a treasured entertainer. Cute movie although somewhat clumsily edited.
And yesterday I fully enjoyed BOY ON A DOLPHIN. I always remember how gorgeous Sophia is in that, but forget what a fun & enjoyable movie it is.
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After I posted "that spot was over 10 years old" I thought maybe we might have been talking about 2 different recordings. Maybe the Olivia DeHavilland one you saw was different than the one I had in mind she was in a beehive hairdo). Sorry if I was mistaken.
I finally saw Tippi's intro/outro last night for SITTING PRETTY. I thought she looked great & did a great job. (I also recall she was standing up, not sitting)
Funny, I never saw much resemblance between her & Melanie Griffith, although I'm only familiar with both of them on film very young. Now that they've both matured, I can completely see they're mother & daughter. They both have huge beautiful eyes and that (annoying) little girl voice.
Poor Melanie, like too many other actresses ruined her face with plastic surgery. I recall an hilarious SNL (or was it MadTV?) sketch with an actress wearing puffy lips in that squeeky voice saying (about her husband Antonio Bandaras) "We look the same age, right?"
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I am not familiar with ANY of these except the Garbo one in Swedish.
I can't watch (only listen) to movies while at work. Often I'll play an uber familiar DVD (like It's A Wonderful Life) on the French or Spanish language track while I'm working just for fun. It's an extra bonus if an unfamiliar (to me) language is included like Chinese.
Does this count?
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I'm quite gladdened to find so many others excited about Lon Chaney day. Many favorites that aren't on my TCM box set like TELL IT TO THE MARINES, one of his very few roles without his famous make-up. You can appreciate what a great actor he was!
Also *very* excited to see fave Joanne Woodward spotlighted. Finally get to see "GAMMA RAYS" & RALLY AROUND THE FLAG, BOYS!!
And lastly, Linda Darnell Day will be fun because I am so unfamiliar with her work. There are *several* TCM premieres this day!
Although I love Joan Blondell, Ralph Bellamy and Bette Davis, I've seen these films a million times. The TCM premieres are what really grab me. Interesting Ann Francis premieres late at night. (good thing I have a recorder)
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Just goes to show you...there ARE no bargains at Wal*Mart.
It's merchandise is underpriced for a reason and the cost to the US is actually very high.
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>The least we can do is recognize that these guest hosts have aged and that there is a big difference from sitting down with Robert O and answering questions that you know you will be asked and trying to fill Robert O's shoes
Well said, lz.
I don't think anyone here realizes how difficult it is to do these intros/outros, they just seem relaxed and conversational. They are only a few minutes, but just ONE wrong inflection or hesitation and you'd want to make another "take".
Although these people are pros, they may not have worked in a long time AND I'm sure slowed down a bit from when in their 20's & 30's. Geez.
And as for Olivia DeHavilland, yes, she looks great but that spot was filmed 10 years (or more) ago. That is not recent.
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>Ya see, the way I'm figurin' it here, ANY remake of Plan 9 from Outer Space or maybe The Creeping Terror "might be" a step up from the original!
I disagree. Remaking a bad movie (13 Ghosts falls within) just undermines the fun factor of how bad it is, while remaking a good movie is pointless.
The only remakes should be movies where the new version can actually ADD something the original lacks.
I recently looked up AN IDEAL HUSBAND in my movie guide and was surprised to see the 40's Paulette Goddard version broadcast on TCM had a lower rating than the modern version with Kate Blanchette! Good for them, they must have improved the story, pacing in some way.
I am less insulted when remakes cross cultural lines like THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN & SEVEN SAMAURI. You always bring interesting cultural differences to the story while hopefully keeping the flavor & charactor intact.
However, MAIN AZAAD HOON, a Bollywood remake of MEET JOHN DOE starring Amitabh Bachchan lost a LOT in translation. Back in the 70's, subtitles were not translated accurately and I barely followed the story. The DVD synopis: "In this modern age when true spoken softly there is no one to believe and a false statement made openly is accepted by public"
Oy!
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Is there a difference between the "What A Character" spots and the contemporary star tributes to the classic star?
Anyway, another big vote for fave James Gleason (include occasionally seen wife Lucille)
Charlotte Greenwood
Alan Hale Sr
George Tobias
Thomas Mitchell
Around 16, I realized Scarlett O'Hara's father was the same guy as Uncle Billy in *It's A Wonderful Life.* That revelation sparked my beginning as a true cinefile.
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I chose to live in snowbelt Syracuse NY precisely because I hate sun, heat & air conditioners. (briefly lived in CA & FL) This humidity makes it impossible for me to work, my paint/varnish won't set right.
So, I've been catching up on all the DVDs I've bought or recorded from TCM the past month or so. That part has been great-I'm actually glad the schedule has been kind of "empty".
What's really sad is the animals. The Golden Retriever just mopes around even with an air conditioner cooling the house. Today I have to give my horse a nice cool hose down, but then it's back in the stall with (flies) just a fan.
I think the worst part of all this is we all feel trapped and useless for getting anything done. At least *I* have good books & movies to entertain myself.
And I DO have a Paul Newman (type) but who wants to be near ANYone in this awful sticky heat?
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Since I'm into the haunted house genre of films, these houses stand out in my mind the most....
My favorite would be the big cold seaside home from *The Uninvited.* Manderlay from *Rebecca* might be a bit too large to clean, but the size of those sets were magnificent!
There's something about a house on a seaside cliff even though it's just an illusion.
I also very much like the sets in *The Shining,* although I've been to the real Timberlake Lodge and it's actually kind of claustrophobic, it's so cramped. Another great film "illusion".
If we're talking about REAL houses, I love the Double Indemnity house. Any images search results in a few pics of how it looks today (thumbnails):
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1022566605086&id=a41ac711b7c2ca8ff812471847429f9d
http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1036244559197&id=b3a22ae7e6ed2949fc8b05a2290b119f
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1077151280714&id=dc5790b03eec4aacbd4c7f1eb8a6dcc5
My house is old & a plaster ceiling just fell. It bowed out and stretched for months before it fell and friends referred to it as "Soo's "The Haunting" ceiling"!
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Nice post mrroberts!
I too think "the method" is overrated and pretentious. But for someone struggling to become a better actor and be taken seriously by her peers, it's easy to see why Marilyn was drawn to it.
It kind of reminds me of a very popular book "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain". Every non-professional artist I knew was impressed with it & pushed me to buy a copy. It contains several drawing excersizes any real artist already knows but are revelatory to a beginner.
So in the same vein, probably some actors really benefitted from the structure of the method, while others, like Olivier & Bette Davis did just fine in their own "stagey" way.
But it was the lofty pretentiousness that was the big turn off.
I loathe Brando, but love Clift. I love the way Brando was mocked in *Bells Are Ringing.*
On a side note Marilyn left all her clothing to Lee Strasburg who just dumped it all at the Salvation Army. Luckily, Debbie Harry (Blondie) heard about this and salvaged a few dresses.
Canadians Ripped Off Today
in General Discussions
Posted
Well I immediately thought of our boards misswonderly when I saw a fantastic TravelTalks filler about Quebec the other day! Very flattering narration and nice to see the town looking so grande!