gagman66
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Posts posted by gagman66
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Always remember this my friends. Despite the natural arrogance and conceit of the Human Animal, the illusion of our own superiority, there is so much that Mankind just doesn't know. And so much that He will never, ever know. At least not until that one day, when it is finally revealed to him.
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Ed,
I still like THE COSSACKS better. However, if BARDELYS THE MAGNIFICENT wasn't missing the reel, maybe closer to a reel and a half it might be very comparable. I certainly enjoyed it much more than Christine had. She isn't that big on John Gilbert though, and loves Ronald Coleman?
Personally, I find Coleman to be exceedingly dull. In most of the Silents I have seen him in He doesn't have much to do, and even in the ones where he does have something to do, He still doesn't do much??? Gilbert is a 100 times more personable and appealing from my perspective. So I don't understand why she finds Coleman so intriguing??? Beda is Crazy about Coleman too!
I agree there were several more scenes that stood out to me. Gilbert unable to pledge his undying love to " Lady Roxalanne" in front of the Madonna, since He was using another man's name. The side-splitting opening sequence, The powerful sequence as Gilbert faces execution in his cell, and briefly reunites with his beloved. And much more.
I did wonder why we never saw the deceased rebel leaders fianc?e? Was that part of the lost footage? That was never explained. He simply had the Necklace, but did she ever receive it? Overall the film dramatically exceeded my expectations? did you like Antonio Coppolla's score? again it won't be included on the Flicker Alley DVD release? Kind of a shame.
I am still wondering about HIS HOUR (1924)??? Bob Lipton on Nitrateville, actually saw this film at a live screening in 2005! And as Roy Sites claimed it still had the Czech title-cards! I'm still amazed that this film is not lost, since Kevin Brownlow thought it was back in May?
How long has MOMA had this I wonder? Why hasn't the film ever been restored? Isn't there any interest? I mean, were talking about the film that made John Gilbert a Superstar here! And it's King Vidor too! Isn't Renee Adoree in this as well? I though that she was? Though the leading lady is Aileen Pringle.
Vintage reviews described HIS HOUR as the dirtiest Hollywood movie ever? What was up with that business??? Elenoir Glynn and all that, so you figured it would be a little spicy. What stuns me is this film should be of at least as much importance as BARDELYS THE MAGNIFICENT, if not more so? Correct? Don't understand why it wouldn't be? Yet that was restored right away?
Henry King's THE SEVENTH DAY has Czech titles, but the film is in good shape. At least about the same as TOL'ABLE DAVID or better. And the film is much better than it's reputation too. This must have been discovered in just the past few years or so? Kevin still thought that was a lost film too. Unless I am mistaken David Shepard might have too??? See if you can find out what Brownlow knows about HIS HOUR the next time you hear from him???
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Vertigo22,
I never understood why Alonzo just didn't have the Extra-Thumb removed on the one hand, rather than both arms??? This seemed a bit to extreme! I guess it wouldn't have been a Tod Browning film any other way though??? I'm I right??? Nobody else in their right mind would have filmed it that way!
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Vertigo22,
I can not tell you for sure which reels are missing other than the first one. It is not there at all. I will try to find more information. The entire film was Lost until the early to Mid 80's I believe.
WHILE THE CITY SLEEPS is missing reel three. I am not sure how much is lost of THE ROAD TO MANDALAY? I have what survives of both films. Did you hear that James Schafer is scoring THE MOCKERY (1927)? We should get a TCM premier by March or April! I have this movie to, and it is a nice copy, but there is no music.
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Religion, and Science can co-exist, but it is supposed to be a secret. You really can't have one without the other. Darwin's Evaluation is still a theory, and not even a very good one at that. Yet it is taught in our schools as fact??? Precious Science holds on to it in spite of the fact that it just doesn't hold up.
Evolution is chuck full of wholes and always will be. That's why man is still searching for the "Missing Link" that doesn't exist. Yet I still believe that Big-Foot is real! Maybe they should be searching for him instead?
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Mike,
Hey there, Happy Halloween!!!! Skin-tone is hard to control I could not get the same shade on the photo with Clara holding the Harlequin mask. I worked and worked at this, but it was no use.
Say, send me an E-mail! A friend sent me a fairly racy photo of a late 40's (circle. 1948) Pin-up/figure model in Cow-Girl attire labeled "Queen-Size Pumpkin" as a Holiday joke. Shame on me, I guess 'cause I colorized that too! But brace yourself, you might be astonished by, and completely unprepared for what you see! Lo!!! Not sure if this was is intended as the Trick, or the Treat, but it certainly is some sight to behold!!! Mercy me!!!
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This one is a fun photo. Billie Dove getting into the Holiday Spirit. With Too Many Stuffed Animals!
*Billie Dove, Toyland Princess!!!*
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This one is a fun photo. Billie Dove getting into the Holiday Spirit. With Too Many Stuffed Animals!
*Billie Dove, Toyland Princess!!!*
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Mark,
I was really holding out great hope for a TCM premier of Frank Borzage's Masterpiece SEVENTH HEAVEN (1927) with Janet Gaynor, and Charles Farrell, during 31 Days of Oscar. The triple Academy Award Winner will be released on official DVD by Fox in December. Though you have to buy that massive box set in order to get it apparently?
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Here is another Clara Bow Halloween Photo. The other two are probably not Halloween Photos, but they sure work for me!
*Clara Bow, Laugh Mask Laugh!!!*
*Clara Bow, Frills Galore!!!*
*Clara Bow, Sleepy Time Gal!!!*
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Karin,
Thank you much. Yes, I love this Colleen Moore painting! What a great magazine cover that is! Tweet-Whew!!! I had not seen this before.
I wondered how they might have handled the one eye brown, the other eye green issue back in the day. Here it appears the artist decided to stick with the Brown, though He might have decided just as well to stay with the Green?
Here is another Clara Bow Halloween Photo. The other two are probably not Halloween Photos, but they sure work for me!
*Clara Bow, Laugh Mask Laugh!*
*Clara Bow, Frills Galore!!!*
*Clara Bow, Sleepy Time Gal!!*
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jschafer,
I think I speak with the majority of fans in saying we very much do appreciate a more authentic sounding Silent film score. That is not a concern at all, So I hope that THE MOCKERY will not be to much of a reproach from your previous effort in that respect. I just can't get into stuff like the Alloy Orchestra for example. While they are talented no doubt, their music just does not go well with the films that they score most of the time.
I also think that most of us enjoyed the score for BEAU BRUMMEL very much. Including myself. Please understand that my comments were more directed toward the choice of film rather than your music. BEAU BRUMMEL would definitely not have been my first choice for a new score. Although, I was still grateful for the chance to view this rarity. You will be pleased to know that on several other forums, I read allot of highly complimentary comments about you score to this film as well.
As for your colleague's, I felt previous YFCC winner Darrel Raby did a marvelous job of scoring Tod Browning's THE SHOW in 2006, but his follow up for the William Haines Comedy SPRING FEVER left me cold. It was to say the lest rather disappointing. It was hard to believe that the same person could have written both scores. The music should have been lighter, bouncer, and when called for decidedly more romantic. This was after-all a William Haines comedy, not a Bagpipe concert! Which Raby's score practically made it seem to be.
Marcus Sjowell's scores to SOULS FOR SALE, and THE SMART SET I found to be both excellent. So I hope that he is still around, for additional projects.
Micheal Picton's efforts for THE TEMPTRESS and in particular THE RED MILL were fabulous. That being said you can't please everyone. I know a few people who are familiar with the original 1926 score of THE RED MILL by Victor Herbert, and have seen the film with this score preformed live. Those folks did not like Picton's score to THE RED MILL at all. I have heard a recording of the 1926 scoring suite, and it is fabulous. Yet in my opinion, Michael Picton's score for the film was outstanding too.
Silent movie music was actually tremendously diverse. Far from the stereotypical lone piano, or droning Pipe-organ. Some Theaters, actually had famed Tango Orchestra's in the 20's of nine players. A handful of these groups rose to great heights, and have sadly been mostly forgotten. Vintage Tango works extraordinarily well when accompanying the Silents. There seemed to be a Tango type for just about any on-screen situation. And of course the giant glittering Movie Palaces of the day boasted full scale symphonies. The proper music was considered a vital part of the overall presentation of a film.
In any event, I am very much looking forward to the premier of THE MOCKERY in the Spring. The very best of luck to you, in completing the project. And A Happy Halloween to you and your family!
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Kate,
While I posted Robert Israel's comments to me, I neglected to post any of my own to him. Several people wanted to know what I had to say, so here it is.
Dear Mr. Israel,
Gagman 66 here. It is indeed an honor and a privilege to hear from you directly. Obviously I am a huge fan of your excellent work. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to talk with me.
Yes, I have definitely noticed your original compositions certainly, mixed in with the Photo-play music. And I was sure that you had composed several themes for THE BLACKBIRD yourself including the main-title, and various character themes. I felt some of the comments made over the past few weeks about your scores were completely unjustified, and their was a general mis-perception among some people as to the nature of your work. So I was determined to defend you in that regard. Alas, I should not have said that your scores were made up "mostly" of photo-play movie mood music. I should have emphasized more that you are in-fact a composer, and a very gifted one in your own right. My apologies for not doing so.
I am not to sure what the story is that it took three years for THE BLACKBIRD to air on the North American TCM's, but I was determined to find out about this matter last July, and finally managed to get the broadcast on the schedule. It took a few weeks to track the movie down, but I knew that it had to be there someplace. Eventually, Charles Tabesh was able to corral it, and was considerate enough to add it to the October line-up. He already had a Chaney slated, (THE MONSTER), so I inquired if the switch could perhaps be made, and it was. I'm so glad that they finally ran the film last night. I have numerous friends all over the country that considered this the event of the year!
Since you have contacted me, I am hoping that you can shed some light on another perplexing mystery that has been plaguing me for the past three or four years. It concernes your reprisal of original 1925 William Axt-David Mendoza score to King Vidor's THE BIG PARADE which you and your Orchestra performed a handful of times in 2005, and perhaps more recently? I know the new restoration was screened at another festival sometime last year. I wish I had more details about this.
To put it moderately, I am losing all patience with Warner's that THE BIG PARADE is still not out on DVD, but even more so that no version of the film has aired at all on TCM since Memorial Day of 2004. I was told in July by Charles Tabesh that He could have run the Thames version. But He had been holding out for the Newly-mastered print, which was supposed to have been ready a long time ago for broadcast. As I'm sure you know, that hasn't happened yet. Leaving this landmark film in Limbo on TCM for the past four years!
It's my understanding that the new fine grain master struck from the long lost original camera negative is jaw-droppingly beautiful quality. So what is taking so long to get it on the air? Unfortunately, Warner's neglected to record a score back in 2005, and to the best of my knowledge they still have not recorded one yet?
My friend Jack Theakston saw a live performance with your 19 piece Orchestra at AMPAS in March of 2005, and again later in the year with You performing the entire score on a Wurlitzer. Astonishingly, He actually preferred the Axt-Mendoza original to the Carl Davis score! That sounds mighty hard to believe. Although, I am fully aware that Davis adapted several of the same themes into his own score for the Thames Silents edition produced by Kevin Brownlow, and David Gill in England in 1983. So allot of it should be quite similar.
I'll admit I am used to the Davis score and love it, If it is going to be replaced they better dang sure record the original, rather than some unbefitting modern score! That would be a desecration of a truly magnificent film. I also remember how Jack commented what an incredible improvement the new restoration was over the older Thames edition pictorially speaking.
The problem is Rodney Sauer of Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra, told me the chances of Warner's recording having you and your orchestra, or anyone else for that matter recreating the full original score, is probably a long shot at best? He said that the potential copyrights involved with some of the music Axt-Mendoza may have used, might make this such an expensive endeavor that Warner's may feel that it is just not worth it? I sure hope that He is wrong.
Anyway, I figure that at least 70% of the score is probably Public-Domain Material, and Davis used allot of it himself in 1983? In that respect, it's already been done once before. So I don't see what is the big deal? Also if Dr. Axt and company were partial MGM employees, (they may have been), shouldn't they have the rights to the entire score???
If we do eventually get stuck with some inferior new score to THE BIG PARADE, I would hope that they would also re-mastered the Thames version with Davis score, and put it out in a two disc set. Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing the 1931 re-issue included too, In a three disc Ultimate collection. I'm certainly growing ever more weary that this fabulous film is still not on DVD. But even more depressed that it is not on TCM, and hasn't been in quite awhile either. I still hold out hope that you will be able to re-produce, and record the Axt-Mendoza score verbatim, as it should be.
Even Charles Tabesh seemd frustrated with Warner's after seeing the film at a live event last year. Although to be be frank, I see no reason they can't run the older version in the meantime though. Especially, for the 90th Anniversary of the Armistice in November! The good news is Tabesh told me that THE BIG PARADE was almost certainly forth-coming on TCM, and DVD in 2009, for MGM's 85th Birthday Celebration. So I hope He is correct about that?
Trouble is, I heard the same thing back in 2005, for the films 80th Anniversary, that a DVD release was enamante. So I guess that I will believe it when I see it. It's frankly beyond ridiculous that the highest grossing film of the Silent era, and the movie that quite literally defined MGM prior to the release of GONE WITH THE WIND, is not on DVD! I know allot of new to Silent film fans, many who have never seen THE BIG PARADE, and are very anxious too.
I have a tendency to ramble on and on. I fear that I am doing that once again. Basically, what I intended to ask you is, are the comments of Rodney Sauer valid in terms of copyrighted material that could prevent the original score from being used on this project? Is this legitimate concern of any kind? The fact that the score was not recorded would seem to imply that it could be? I mean, for them to commission some inferior new score when the original is available to me would be a disaster, and is not doing this land-mark film it's proper justice. No young Composers on THE BIG PARADE, parish forbid! Not that I was not sadden by the demise of this annual competition. I definitely was. Any additional information that you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
In any event, I intend to fight for the score you performed to be recorded, and paired with the film no matter what it takes, So you definitely have an allay, and I have many friends that feel just as strongly about this matter as I do.
For a little more on myself, here is a link to my page on GAOH. I have well over 200 photos posted, and nearly a 100 pieces of music. It would be wonderful to have you as a member. Please feel free to join. Thank you for all your time, and keep up the great work!
http://goldenageofhollywood.ning.com/profile/TheGiant
Hope to hear from you some more very soon.
Sincerely,
Jeffrey
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I actually thought that Owen Moore was great as "West End Bertie". Especially given that his character here was so entirely different than that of the fun loving Dennis the Irishman of Marion Davies THE RED MILL. To me this showed that He was clearly capable of handling diverse roles quite well.
The title-card about the "Chinkies" was a conveniently clever excuse for Bertie setting up a place where his own boys could mug/rob, the ritzy woman who came into the dive with him. He's worked matters to his advantage, so no one would suspect that He was really behind it all. Bertie was a crafty sharper, so it's hard to believe that He would turn over a new leaf just like that. The whole point is Dan Tate certainly didn't want to believe any of it.
Chaney is of course at his very best as I have mentioned previously. yet "Bishop" was so good and revered by the people of Limehouse, that one wonders how, brother Dan "The Blackbird" could be so rotten and feared? And Renee Adoree is always at her best too. "Fifi Lorraine", was another Sweetheart. Renee was just completely irresistible. If I had my way though we would have seen that entire Puppet-Act on stage though, not just bits and pieces of it. What a delightful routine.
The Music Hall sequence works for me. As it establishes all the characters extremely well, and is not overdone. You have to feel sorry for poor "Limehouse Polly" who wears her heart on her sleeve the whole time. Somehow Dan even managed to maintain the illusion of "Bishop" during his former Marriage to Polly it seems? Maybe that's why she divorced him in the first place? He was probably gone way to much! She may have suspected that he had been sneaking around behind her back? Little did she know!
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calvero8,
It's already been done. Robert Israel delightfully scored all of the Essanny Chaplin One and Two reelers. These are nicely restored. The DVD set was released by Image Entertainment some years ago.
Likewise in 2006, Image released the 12 Chaplin Mutual shorts with new scores by the great Carl Davis. This is the 90th Anniversary DVD Collection. Far as I know, both DVD sets are still in print. The Mutual's have been beautifully restored, with allot of long un-seen footage, reinstatedby David Shepard.
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jschafer,
Thank you very much sir for sharing this information with us. Obviously I had been curious for many months as to what the next project might be? It is indeed exciting news that TCM is still having more of the great MGM Silents scored, and made ready for broadcast.
I know that Rodney Sauer, and Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra are presently working on King Vidor's BARDELYS THE MAGNIFICENT, and now you have been generous enough to inform us about THE MOCKERY being in the works as well. I have a scoreless copy of this film, but I have never watched it before. I am very pleased to hear that we should be seeing the premier with your new music score in the first half of the coming year! That is indeed wonderful news.
I only hope that TCM/ Warner's is likewise still working with some of your other fellow past YFCC Winners too. There are so many films that I am eagerly awaiting to see scored. First and far most in my mind is Colleen Moore's newly restored HER WILD OAT (First National, 1927), Next is probably Marion Davies THE FAIR CO-ED (1927) with Jane Winton, and Johnny Mack Brown.
Other superb choices would be King Vidor Classics like WINE OF YOUTH (1924), and PROUD FLESH (1925). John Gilbert features such as TWELVE MILES OUT (1927), and THE COSSACKS (1928). Harry Beaumont's FORBIDDEN HOURS (1928) with Ramon Novarro, and Renee Adoree. And the list goes on and on.
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This is amazing! I received an E-mail last night from the multi-talented Composer/Musician/Conductor Robert Israel!!! I am honored that he would take time to converse with me. I have never communicated with him before. In-fact, I had no idea how to even reach him.
With his express consent, I am posting the following two E-mail's addressed to me, from Mr. Robert Israel himself.
The first concerns his scoring of THE BLACKBIRD. And addresses the issue's of which Wheelage, and a few others posters were perplexed about over the past few weeks on this forum. While the second E-mail concerns the issue of his potential scoring of the new restoration of King Vidor's THE BIG PARADE.
Dear "Gagman66,"
"I thought that I might take a moment or two to write to you and thank you for some of the comments you have made (over these past few years) concerning my work in scoring the pre-sound era film classics. You seem to be a true lover of "silent" films and I am very glad to know that there are others who share a passion for these wonderful classics, just as I do.
I know that my scores will not always be to someone's taste, but it often amazes me how many people make comments about my music, but have never taken the time to write to me directly for some information. (I refer to a link, I received from a friend this morning, posted by the handle "wheelage"). I am not in the habit of visiting these forums (there are many friends, acquaintances and colleagues that forward these messages to me) with any frequency, nevertheless, I do get enough feedback to know that there are times when people appreciate my music and times when they do not like what they have heard: this is the nature of entertainment, and I am sure you are aware of this.
I share your opinion about THE BLACKBIRD as being one of Chaney's underrated films, particularly because the ensemble of performers are so wonderful in their roles: even Owen Moore is respectable and effective! But with concern to the music score, I know that you are familiar that I compose for many different film genres. And, although I have used a large amount of existing music in my scores, there are just as many original compositions of my own that I use. Because I compose in a style that might be considered "authentic" to the 1920s, it seems obvious to me (by many comments made by viewers) that they assume all of the music is compiled. This is not so. In the case of THE BLACKBIRD, a great deal of the score is original. The title music is my own composition, the entrance of Dan (until he is inside his rooms) is original, the Scotland Yard theme, etc... And, in the case of all of these existing pieces, I had orchestrated and re-orchestrated almost all of the score.
For anyone unfamiliar with this process, it can only be described as tremendously detail oriented, and this is not to mention the need to understand each and every instrument, and sections of the orchestra, thoroughly. It is not merely assigning notes to be played to fill in spaces or make chords happen. (And, yes, I can thank a host of other composers like Godard, Reinecke, Gabriel-Marie, Borch and many others, for their lovely music).
In the case of LA ROUE, the entire four hours and twenty minutes (except for a quote from Tschaikovsky's 1812 Overture, which I had to orchestrate and rewrite for the purpose in the film) is entirely original. But, even in the case of compiling a score, this does not mean that it is an easier or lesser job than writing original music. There are still many challenges to overcome and the need to develop serious ideas to support the film.
For example, the sequence in THE BLACKBIRD where Fifi tries to make West End Bertie flee, is my original music using themes that have been stated prior to this sequence. The effect that I wished to achieve was to bring to the fore the amazing agitation between the characters: that you can truly hear them shouting at one another (a tribute to Tod Browning's wonderful, though uneven technique, and the beautiful acting of Chaney, Adoree and Moore), and that you can feel the intense passion of all three players. I suppose it is so easy to watch that it is just as easy to criticize. In fact, I do not mind that so much, but I wish that someone would take the time to write to me and have a dialogue with me on this subject. Yes, I have a very busy schedule, but if I can help someone, I do try to make time for this. The audience for this kind of cinema is not growing as fast as it is shrinking.
At any rate, I would just like to say thank you for making the effort to express a positive point of view and I would like to wish you many more hours of pleasant viewing and listening to these wonderful classics."
Yours most truly,
Robert Israel?
The folowing concerns THE BIG PARADE. Mr. Israel's response to my inquiry if the original 1925 Wlliam Axt- David Glenn Mendoza score of which He has reprised with his Orchestra's at live screeing's might be reprised and recorded on the forthcoming TCM Re-premier, (2009?), and DVD release?
Quote:
Dear Jeffrey,
"Thank you for your kind reply. I do appreciate it. I cannot speak for the studio in any official capacity, but I do know that Warner Brothers is considering THE BIG PARADE as a DVD release. There is nothing definite set as a release date, so all that can be said at this time is to remain patient and keep positive thoughts. Warner Brothers is very well aware of the importance of this film, but more significantly, they do consider this an important project as a DVD release. Please remember that they are, perhaps, the only major studio entity that considers its classic film library as valuable; and, this speaks volumes for those dedicated individuals that would like these titles to be released on DVD.
Off of the subject of DVD releases, but more focused on the score by William Axt and David Mendoza, it is a very fine work and does represent something unique in the area of "original" scores for films released during the 1920s. I say this because of the care with which they consummated their work. One could argue that after sound became the industry standard, that scoring practices and techniques became more sophisticated. But, one has to take into account the inherent differences between a "silent" feature and a "sound" film. Certainly, Max Steiner and Erich Wolfgang Korngold represented a new standard for film scoring (with scores for films such as KING KONG (1933), THE INFORMER (1935) and THE SEA HAWK (1941) and so forth), but they had something to look forward to that silent film scoring did not offer: their music would be recorded by an exceptional group of professionals and would be a solid representation of their labor for generations to come. In other words, spending the endless hours composing would be worth their while because they could count on the fact that their music would be an integrated part of the film for which they were composing. Please do not forget that in the live performance tradition of the 1920s, scores had a limited life span: once the film ended its run, the music usually disappeared as well.
No reputable composer of the day wanted their work to disappear, despite the fact that composers such as Victor Herbert, Jerome Kern, Sigmund Romberg, and a host of others had written at least one silent film score. None of the above listed professionals wrote more than one score for a silent feature: in the case of J. Kern, I believe it was a score for a serial. The point being this: why would anyone compose a work that would be as big as an opera, only to watch it become relegated to a world of obscurity? Please note that simply because a score was written/compiled for a film in this period (an "original" score), does not mean it is always worth presenting today. There were plenty of prosaic scores from that time, and there are plenty of pedestrian scores being written today. Time was then, and shall remain, the ultimate critic.
At any rate, although Axt and Mendoza are often criticized today for many different reasons (banal, superficial, "old hat" and a host of other pejorative terms I have heard over the years), I feel that many of these opinions are unfounded, uninformed and often predicated upon ignorance. Yes, their technique was rather different, and one could even argue that Hugo Riesenfeld was superior, but I disagree. I cannot say one was better than the other: there is very little value in drawing such comparisons. But, what I can say is that the best work of these gentlemen do stand to demonstrate something of a great value to cinema history. Scores such as THE BIG PARADE and BEN-HUR are excellent, in my opinion, and show what a great understanding and mastery Axt and Mendoza possessed with regards to scoring a feature length film.
One must also take into account what performance practices were in their day, and what a paying audience was expecting to hear when they attended a show at a major movie palace such as The Capitol Theatre in New York, or The Roxy, or any other flagship house. In certain respects, scoring practices in today's cinema is not all too different from the scores written/compiled eighty years ago. True, Hans Zimmer's style is based upon maximum effect without superfluous writing, but he still achieves a very clear result when supporting any given mood within a film sequence: suspense, pathos, heroics, agitation, etc...
This is a long winded way of saying, yes, I love the Axt-Mendoza score to THE BIG PARADE and I would like to make sure that it is recorded before too long. Even if there are a number of themes that were compiled from existing music for this score, their use of the material, and ability to make such unique selections, demonstrates a skill of the highest order.
Thank you, once again, for your thoughtful reply and I look forward to hearing from you again."
Yours most truly,
Robert Israel
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Kate, Everyone,
With his express consent, I am posting the following two E-mail's addressed to me, from Mr. Robert Israel himself.
The first concerns his scoring of THE BLACKBIRD. And addresses the issue's of which Wheelage, and a few others posted have been contemplating over the past few weeks on this forum. While the second E-mail concerns the issue of his potential scoring of the new restoration of King Vidor's THE BIG PARADE.
Dear "Gagman66,"
I thought that I might take a moment or two to write to you and thank you for some of the comments you have made (over these past few years) concerning my work in scoring the pre-sound era film classics. You seem to be a true lover of "silent" films and I am very glad to know that there are others who share a passion for these wonderful classics, just as I do.
I know that my scores will not always be to someone's taste, but it often amazes me how many people make comments about my music, but have never taken the time to write to me directly for some information. (I refer to a link, I received from a friend this morning, posted by the handle "wheelage"). I am not in the habit of visiting these forums (there are many friends, acquaintances and colleagues that forward these messages to me) with any frequency, nevertheless, I do get enough feedback to know that there are times when people appreciate my music and times when they do not like what they have heard: this is the nature of entertainment, and I am sure you are aware of this.
I share your opinion about THE BLACKBIRD as being one of Chaney's underrated films, particularly because the ensemble of performers are so wonderful in their roles: even Owen Moore is respectable and effective! But with concern to the music score, I know that you are familiar that I compose for many different film genres. And, although I have used a large amount of existing music in my scores, there are just as many original compositions of my own that I use. Because I compose in a style that might be considered "authentic" to the 1920s, it seems obvious to me (by many comments made by viewers) that they assume all of the music is compiled. This is not so. In the case of THE BLACKBIRD, a great deal of the score is original. The title music is my own composition, the entrance of Dan (until he is inside his rooms) is original, the Scotland Yard theme, etc... And, in the case of all of these existing pieces, I had orchestrated and re-orchestrated almost all of the score.
For anyone unfamiliar with this process, it can only be described as tremendously detail oriented, and this is not to mention the need to understand each and every instrument, and sections of the orchestra, thoroughly. It is not merely assigning notes to be played to fill in spaces or make chords happen. (And, yes, I can thank a host of other composers like Godard, Reinecke, Gabriel-Marie, Borch and many others, for their lovely music).
In the case of LA ROUE, the entire four hours and twenty minutes (except for a quote from Tschaikovsky's 1812 Overture, which I had to orchestrate and rewrite for the purpose in the film) is entirely original. But, even in the case of compiling a score, this does not mean that it is an easier or lesser job than writing original music. There are still many challenges to overcome and the need to develop serious ideas to support the film.
For example, the sequence in THE BLACKBIRD where Fifi tries to make West End Bertie flee, is my original music using themes that have been stated prior to this sequence. The effect that I wished to achieve was to bring to the fore the amazing agitation between the characters: that you can truly hear them shouting at one another (a tribute to Tod Browning's wonderful, though uneven technique, and the beautiful acting of Chaney, Adoree and Moore), and that you can feel the intense passion of all three players. I suppose it is so easy to watch that it is just as easy to criticize. In fact, I do not mind that so much, but I wish that someone would take the time to write to me and have a dialogue with me on this subject. Yes, I have a very busy schedule, but if I can help someone, I do try to make time for this. The audience for this kind of cinema is not growing as fast as it is shrinking.
At any rate, I would just like to say thank you for making the effort to express a positive point of view and I would like to wish you many more hours of pleasant viewing and listening to these wonderful classics.
Yours most truly,
Robert Israel
The folowing concerns Mr. Israel's response to my inquiry if the original 1925 Wlliam Axt- David Glenn Mendoza score of THE BIG PARADE, which He has reprised with his Orchestra's at live screeing's might be reprised and recorded on the forthcoming TCM Re-premier (2009?), and DVD release?
Dear Jeffrey,
Thank you for your kind reply. I do appreciate it. I cannot speak for the studio in any official capacity, but I do know that Warner Brothers is considering THE BIG PARADE as a DVD release. There is nothing definite set as a release date, so all that can be said at this time is to remain patient and keep positive thoughts. Warner Brothers is very well aware of the importance of this film, but more significantly, they do consider this an important project as a DVD release. Please remember that they are, perhaps, the only major studio entity that considers its classic film library as valuable; and, this speaks volumes for those dedicated individuals that would like these titles to be released on DVD.
Off of the subject of DVD releases, but more focused on the score by William Axt and David Mendoza, it is a very fine work and does represent something unique in the area of "original" scores for films released during the 1920s. I say this because of the care with which they consummated their work. One could argue that after sound became the industry standard, that scoring practices and techniques became more sophisticated. But, one has to take into account the inherent differences between a "silent" feature and a "sound" film. Certainly, Max Steiner and Erich Wolfgang Korngold represented a new standard for film scoring (with scores for films such as KING KONG (1933), THE INFORMER (1935) and THE SEA HAWK (1941) and so forth), but they had something to look forward to that silent film scoring did not offer: their music would be recorded by an exceptional group of professionals and would be a solid representation of their labor for generations to come. In other words, spending the endless hours composing would be worth their while because they could count on the fact that their music would be an integrated part of the film for which they were composing. Please do not forget that in the live performance tradition of the 1920s, scores had a limited life span: once the film ended its run, the music usually disappeared as well. No reputable composer of the day wanted their work to disappear, despite the fact that composers such as Victor Herbert, Jerome Kern, Sigmund Romberg, and a host of others had written at least one silent film score. None of the above listed professionals wrote more than one score for a silent feature: in the case of J. Kern, I believe it was a score for a serial. The point being this: why would anyone compose a work that would be as big as an opera, only to watch it become relegated to a world of obscurity? Please note that simply because a score was written/compiled for a film in this period (an "original" score), does not mean it is always worth presenting today. There were plenty of prosaic scores from that time, and there are plenty of pedestrian scores being written today. Time was then, and shall remain, the ultimate critic.
At any rate, although Axt and Mendoza are often criticized today for many different reasons (banal, superficial, "old hat" and a host of other pejorative terms I have heard over the years), I feel that many of these opinions are unfounded, uninformed and often predicated upon ignorance. Yes, their technique was rather different, and one could even argue that Hugo Riesenfeld was superior, but I disagree. I cannot say one was better than the other: there is very little value in drawing such comparisons. But, what I can say is that the best work of these gentlemen do stand to demonstrate something of a great value to cinema history. Scores such as THE BIG PARADE and BEN-HUR are excellent, in my opinion, and show what a great understanding and mastery Axt and Mendoza possessed with regards to scoring a feature length film. One must also take into account what performance practices were in their day, and what a paying audience was expecting to hear when they attended a show at a major movie palace such as The Capitol Theatre in New York, or The Roxy, or any other flagship house. In certain respects, scoring practices in today's cinema is not all too different from the scores written/compiled eighty years ago. True, Hans Zimmer's style is based upon maximum effect without superfluous writing, but he still achieves a very clear result when supporting any given mood within a film sequence: suspense, pathos, heroics, agitation, etc...
This is a long winded way of saying, yes, I love the Axt-Mendoza score to THE BIG PARADE and I would like to make sure that it is recorded before too long. Even if there are a number of themes that were compiled from existing music for this score, their use of the material, and ability to make such unique selections, demonstrates a skill of the highest order.
Thank you, once again, for your thoughtful reply and I look forward to hearing from you again.
Yours most truly,
Robert Israel
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smokey15
Sadly, THE UNKNOWN is not a complete film. It only exists in a fragment. What you saw if all that remains of the production. At least a couple reels are missing, and have never been found.
LAUGH CLOWN LAUGH is also missing a reel or more, along with several of Chaney's other surviving features. That's what makes THE BLACK BIRD a rare exception. This film appears to exist in it's entirety as it was originally released.
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wheelage,
Oh for heavens sake, Robert Israel compiles and arranges scores for Silent's that incorporate various vintage "public domain" musical themes,. All of which were commonly used as Photo-play Movie Mood music at the time. These are skillfully integrated with his own original compositions.
In other words, what Mr. Israel does is no different than a William Axt, David Mendoza, Or Erno Rapee-Lew Pollack-Maurice Barron did back in the day. For the record, those guys took full credit for the complete score too! Even though they may have only included four or five original compositions in the entire arrangement. Robert's score to THE BLACKBIRD contains far more original music that those vintage scores generally did. Much of the scoring is all new.
In any event, Mr. Israel's credits on THE BLACK BIRD clearly read 'Original Music Composed By Robert Israel. " Nowhere does it say He wrote the whole thing himself. Only the original themes that were used. Which was actually a significant portion of the music.
In those instances where the music is still under copyright such as with "Collegiate", or "Freshie" as is used on Mr. Israel's excellent score to Harold Lloyd's THE FRESHMAN (1925), He did provide in the credits that those tunes were used with express permission of the current copyright holders.
If you have ever seen a Robert Youngson Silent Comedy compilation, the scorers of those took sole credit for everything, even though they composed none of it whatsoever! At least Mr. Israel actually does write a fair amount of his own scores himself.
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Film_Fatale,
The answer to the mysterious 2005 copyright, is really quite simple. Our own TCM's here in North America, (Kate lives in Canada), had never aired THE BLACK BIRD before, until this morning!
What's more they may not have aired the movie at all, unless I had brought it up this past July to "TCM programmer." Seems the version was produced, and then forgotten. It was not broadcast in the States period. Though it was shown on a European version of TCM. From where I was fortunate enough to snag a copy.
Yes, the score was recorded back in 2005. The transfer of the film itself you saw probably goes back several years before that, sometime in the mid to late 90's? Most of the MGM Silents were transferred from Nitrate to Safety-stock. well over a decade ago. Some of them much longer than that. So it is hard to tell.
I still think the name of the film is actually THE BLACKBIRD, and not THE BLACK BIRD. But THE BLACK BIRD is how TCM has the movie listed in it's data base. You will not find it under THE BLACKBIRD. I don't know why it would be called THE BLACK BIRD, three separate words, when the main character in the picture's nick-name is THE BLACKBIRD? Makes no sense. The main title clearly reads THE BLACKBIRD as well.
Another thing, this movie was released in January of 1926. So it is really a 1925 film. The year that it actually was made.
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jerryg
I can help you. I recorded THE BLACK BIRD tonight. And I already had it from a foreign version of TCM.
I have all kinds of other stuff that you may be interested in as well that you might be hard pressed to find anyplace else. Please send me a PM.
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Don't forget now. Lon Chaney's THE BLACK BIRD with Renee Adoree, Directed by Tod Browning, makes it's long awaited North American TCM Premier this Sunday! That's tonigh peoplet! Not next year, not next month, not next week, TONIGHT!
So what ever you do don't miss this event! Personally I think this is Lon's most underrated feature, and I liked it allot better than some of his more famous titles.
This film has been beautifully restored from a fine grain 35 millimeter master positive. The print looks superior to virtually any of Chaney's films with the exception of maybe TELL IT TO THE MARINES.
What, no article for this film among the Silent Sunday Nights profiles??? That's rather disappointing. This was scheduled clear back in July.
Lon Chaney, Renee Adoree, And Owen Moore. From Tod Browning's THE BLACK BIRD (MGM, 1926).
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Don't forget now. Lon Chaney's THE BLACK BIRD with Renee Adoree, Directed by Tod Browning, makes it's long awaited North American TCM Premier this Sunday! That's tonight! So what ever you do don't miss this event! Personally I think this is Lon's most underrated feature, and I liked it allot better than some of his more famous titles.
This film has been beautifully restored from a fine grain 35 millimeter master positive. The print looks superior to virtually any of Chaney's films with the exception of maybe TELL IT TO THE MARINES.
What, there is no article for this film among the Silent Sunday Nights profiles??? That's rather disappointing. It was scheduled clear back in July.
Lon Chaney, Renee Adoree, And Owen Moore. From Tod Browning's THE BLACK BIRD (MGM, 1926).
What do you believe..religion or science?
in General Discussions
Posted
Always remember this my friends. Despite the natural arrogance and conceit of the Human Animal, the illusion of our own superiority, there is so much that Mankind just doesn't know. And so much that He will never, ever know. At least not until one day when it is finally revealed to him.