Swithin

Because of her deep voice. Sorry, just joking!

I haven't fully explored the new site, so I can't comment yet. I do like that there is more specific information about the shorts (wish my cable company separated them out, for recording purposes). I don't like that they've given Maltin reviews such pride of place. Who needs them? We know what we want to see. A mainstream reviewer like Maltin doesn't have respect for, say, PRC George Zucco films; or the Lionel Atwill canon that we love. He automatically deletes a star or two for the genre.

Myrna Loy was lovely. I met her once -- helped her put her boots on, on a pretty awful January night, ca. 1982, the same night I worked briefly as Cagney's bodyguard. Both Myrna and Kate, from totally different parts of the USA, lived out most of their later years in their New York City homes.

You might have liked Kate better if she took those roles, Fred. They (Bride, Norman Bates) had high pitched voices!

I know people who knew Kate pretty well. They feel she chose the life she lived. Regarding Tracy, there is a freedom in a long distance sometime relationship that some people choose. Kate had plenty of suitors to choose from. Regarding the other poster's remark about *Bringing Up Baby*, what is Susan Vance if not a rich Connecticut girl? That's what Kate was! Susan Vance and "Babbie" in *The Little Minister* are really quite similar, perhaps something like the teen-age Kate. The independence I refer to has to do not only with her work but with her support for progressive causes when many actresses of her generation made a point of being seen to go to church regularly and shying away from politics. When Henry Wallace was denied the use of a campaign venue (the Hollywood Bowl, I think) in 1947, there was an outcry about freedom of speech. Kate read the protest speech in defense of Wallace's rights because she said it would be safer for her to do than the actor who had intended to read it: a man born Emanuel Goldenberg in Romania. No other actress would have dared to take on that risk. Wallace campaigned for President on the Progressive Party ticket. His platform included universal voting rights for all men and women as well as a national health service. He came in fourth, after Truman, Dewey, and Dixiecrat Thurmond.

Yes, the on-screen/off-screen subject is oft debated in all art forms, really. An actor I generally like on screen -- Walter Brennan -- was a vicious, unrepentent racist. I try not to let that influence my enjoyment of his work on screen. But the difference with Hepburn is that her off-screen independence and commitment DID infuse her on-screen choices and performances. And since I tend to share Kate's values, that means something to me. And yes, it's all very subjective! Like the man who posted here who basically seems not to like women with deep voices; or the one who doesn't like Edward Everett Horton because of his voice!

Miss W., I agree with many of your points, at least up until your last paragraph. I think Hollywood didn't really have an actress/woman like Kate, and she was a natural for the roles they/she picked. They couldn't have cast Jean Harlow as Tracy Lord or Hepburn as the "tart" in *Dinner at Eight*. She was an upper middle class Yankee, and that's generally what she played. And -- not that this reflects on her acting one way or the other -- I admire the way she lived her life -- independent, progressive politically at a time when it was dangerous to do so. And basically a kind person, as contrasted with Davis, whose nastiness to the cast (including Lillian Gish) on the set of *Whales of August* is unforgiveable. I love Bette Davis. She certainly played a greater diversity of roles than Kate. There was probably less range in Bette's acting than people give her credit for, but the sheer number of great performances and great films is amazing. But there is a scene in *Juarez* -- a film in which Davis has many towering scenes -- in which she suddenly becomes just Bette Davis. It's when she's talking to Brian Aherne about the time she was a little girl at court. Her whole tone in that scene is out of keeping with the film. Also, Bette's off-screen persona is not as noble as Kate's. I'm not talking about "personal life." I can't imagine Davis making the speech that Kate made on Broadway, right after the Kent State Massacre in 1970. We can of course say that the politics had nothing to do with Kate's acting; but I do think Kate's independent spirit infused her work to a great degree.

Most of the actors of the golden age, in the films we love, tended to be cast in similar roles. That was the studio system, and it was a GOOD system. It wasn't the theater, where the Lunts could go on and seem to be totally different, unrecognizable people in every play. In a funny way, it wasn't about the acting -- it was about the movie. All the great character people played versions of the same role again and again, for the most part. OK, Bette Davis could put on eyebrows and seem different, but when Charlotte Vale took off those eyebrows, she was Judith Traherne. And as Julie in Jezebel, Bette is really another version of Traherne. And take Greer Garson, one of my favorites -- she was always pretty much some version of the same great lady in all of her films. And another one of my favorites -- Beulah Bondi -- a great actress -- but always pretty much Beulah Bondi. I hate to say it, but in some ways the actors -- and I love them all -- in those films were to some extent props -- great directors learned to use them to the best advantage. This is all rather a simplification, obviously, but it's pretty much how things were.

I love Kate -- her style, her films, her persona, her Yankee character, even her politics. She could be a bit mannered and annyoying in the occasional scene, but that was generally character driven. For me, she is one of the greats.

Very interesting. How do you feel about Zasu Pitts in silent films? How do you feel about other ladies with deep voices, e.g.Talullah? Lauren Bacall? Eugene Pallette? (Just kidding). Regarding Thelma Ritter (gotta love her) I find there are alot of actors who may not seem to have much range, but I don't find them irritating. Spencer Tracy, for example. But I like him, even though I think his range is limited.

Fred, apart from Zasu Pitts, it seems that you don't like ladies with deep voices! What are you trying to tell us?

Loretta Young irritates me. I don't think she's a good actress and don't like her style/manner. In more recent times, I don't like Christopher Lloyd. His kind of broadness might suit a vaudeville stage, but I find it excrutiating in the movies.

Thanks for the reminder, haven't seen it in yonks! I particularly remember liking Ruth Donnelly in the film.

The lovely and talented Helen Stenborg died yesterday at the age of 86. I had the pleasure to work with her a couple of times. She and her late husband, Barnard Hughes, were a beloved theater couple living in New York City. (Their son Doug is a Tony-Award winning director.) Though primarily a stage and television actress, Helen made several movies, her most recent being *Doubt* as Sister Teresa. Helen was nominated for a Tony Award in 2000 for her performance in Noel Coward's play *Waiting in the Wings*. She waits in the wings no longer.

Sontag became a sort of "camp classic" herself -- a kind of theatrical, exaggerated stereotype of a intellectual.

'Fraid I wouldn't all those things bad taste. Baxter's expressions may be left over from silent days, to some extent, but bad taste? Not the right way to describe them, I don't think.

Actually, I don't think the Busby Berkeley movies you mention are in bad taste. I think that's where the decades intervene -- we have to suspend disbelief and recognize that the language of film was different in those days -- that's why we love them. I don't understand what you mean by bad taste related to films like *42nd Street*. And while we're on the subject -- I don't think there is any political statement on film more poignant than the "Remember My Forgotten Man" number from *Gold Diggers of 1933*.

I don't think camp has to be regarded as a failed attempt at seriousness. Perhaps the campiest scene I have ever seen comes at the end of *The Tempest*, directed by Derek Jarman, when Elisabeth Welch turns up in a yellow dress and sings "Stormy Weather", accompanied by a group of dancing sailors. It's quite wonderful, the best thing in the film, and intentionally campy.

Gregg Toland for *The Grapes of Wrath*. I bought a new tv recently. Took the DVD of *The Grapes of Wrath* with me to the Sony showroom, because there is no other film with such sublime black and white cinematography. Good to check tv quality!

*The Manchurian Candidate* is my pick. I guess you can call a man who is brainwashed by Communisits to perform an assassination a spy, and it certainly was the Cold War!

And let's not forget Rory Calhoun's great performance in *Motel Hell*: "It takes all kinds of critters to make Farmer Vincent's fritters!"

I don't think anyone mistakes Atwill for those other actors. I would put him in the same league as George Zucco, but I don't think anyone on these boards would mistake the two. These are the character men who made the movies great!

Nothing wrong with those studios, those roles, or those films. *Fog Island* is one I particularly enjoy. And the two *House of...* films feature a wonderful repertory company of actors, in roles both large and small.

Atwill is the best. So many great performances. I think the first time I saw him was on the old Shock Theater in NYC, when they showed *The Mad Doctor of Market Street*. One of his non-horror roles that I particularly like is as Dietrich's masochistic friend in *The Devil Is a Woman*, a great movie that, by the way, features an enjoyable performance by Edward Everett Horton.

I saw *Prospero's Books* in London about 20 years ago, at the Lumiere Cinema in St. Martin's Lane, after having a good African meal at the Calabash in Covent Garden. I noticed last week that the Lumiere is now a fitness center. I think John Gielgud ranked *Prospero's Books* as one of his greatest achievements. I liked it -- but *A Zed and Two Noughts* is far and away my favorite Greenaway film. It's CRAZY, and I'm a big fan of Frances Barber and the Deacon twins.