MissGoddess

> {quote:title=butterscotchgreer wrote:}{quote}'Ello Dahlink! > 'Ello, duckie! > I miss you! Do you mind if I join in the chat about Dorian Gray? > Please do! I think it has a lot to offer for discussion. > > That analogy was very well worded! You perfectly explained the relationship between Angela and Dorian. It was certainly horrid how he used "Sibyl" to hide his cowardly side. She didn't see that in him. She was blinded by his clever act as she thought he was the man of her dreams. I was pretty much dribbling my thoughts there in one gigantic run-away paragraph! I'm glad you named Angela's character, I'd forgotten she was called "Sibyl". Female prophet is one of the meanings of the name, and her sad little song certainly was prophetic for her, and in a way, for Dorian. He'd never have been content to be just "a sparrow". Tell me something, do you think if Dorian could have foreseen how it would all end, would he have done any differently? > But i see her character as always seeing the good in everything. It was those little things that made him appreciate her, only after she was gone. what did you think about Donna Reed's character, "Glady's Hallward"? > I thought Gladys was sweet, but I confess that I was distracted the last time I watched the movie during most of her scenes.

What an amazingly eclectic batch of films! Here's how I think you may have liked them: 1. Thieves' Highway 2. Summertime 3. The Picture of Dorian Gray 4. The Thing from Another Planet 5. Beauty and the Beast (1946) 6. Buchanan Rides Again 7. Born to Be Bad (1950) 8. Heaven Can Wait (1943) 9. In Name Only 10. Murders in the Zoo 11. Dark Journey 12. City Streets 13. The Mark of Zorro 14. The Roaring Twenties 15. Room Service 16. The High and the Mighty 17. Ninotchka 18. The Little Giant 19. Carefree 20. How to Marry a Millionaire My rankings: 1. Summertime 2. Beauty and the Beast (1946) (Exquisite!) 3. The Picture of Dorian Gray 4. Ninotchka 5. Dark Journey 6. How to Marry a Millionaire 7. In Name Only 8. The Thing from Another Planet 9. The Little Giant 10. The Mark of Zorro 11. Room Service 12. The Roaring Twenties 13. Murders in the Zoo 14. Heaven Can Wait (1943) 15. The High and the Mighty 16. City Streets 17. Born to Be Bad (1950) 18. Buchanan Rides Again* 19. Carefree 20. Thieves' Highway *This one was ranked so low because I don't remember anything about it. I know I've seen it and liked it fair, but I need to do so again. Most of these movies, with a couple of excceptions, are kind of in the middle for me. Two of them are childhood favorites: *Ninotchka* (which has to be one of the top three or four films that I have seen the most often), and *How to Marry a Millionaire* (ditto). One that has risen the most is *The Picture of Dorian Gray*. When I first saw it and read the story years ago, i was rather repulsed, as I think we should be, by Dorian himself (the character). He was so brilliantly played by poor Hurd Hatfiled. There was such a corpse-like coldness in his performance and the only thing living in that deadly beautiful face of his was his burning eyes...I just couldn't get past that for the longest. I've since re-watched it a couple of times and become more fascinated by the psychology. it reminds me a lot of Fleming's *Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde* in the exploration of selfishness vs self-control. I don't even pay attention to the little kitty anymore (something else that always disturbed me), it seems an excuse we don't need to explain Hurd's submission to his own basest cravings. Then there's Georgie, instigating with dispassion the most ghastly tragedies. He's a puppeteer, too lazy to test his own theories so he prompts others, like a devil's own advocate, to carry out little "experiments" to prove his cynical views are the well founded. What brought out the painful remorseful tragic aspect of it all was poor Angela's "little yellow bird". She was so sure she'd found what she had been waiting for. "A real gentleman." Of all the horrid things Dorian did, nothing was as hateful to me as his little "test". It showed such a lack of owning his own mind, the way he so easily succumbed to Lord Wotton's (Sanders) suggestion and this quality is a dangerous one, just as dangerous as Wotton's own misplaced confidence in the rightness of his ideas. Edited by: MissGoddess on Feb 17, 2012 9:21 PM

Jackie I loved your post. You wrote what I feel about the characters, well, except for M. Pig. He mocked belief, and that is something those in doubt do, to protect themselves. That's great! I think you have it, there. "Mocking" is Gable's forte. It's a word that Margaret Mitchell used more than any other when describing her "Rhett Butler". And his (Gable's) mocking characters are almost all summed up when Rhett confessed to thinking very little of himself when he left her on the road to Tara, and that he wasn't even sure of his own motives for going off to fight when the fight was nearly lost. It goes all the way to Gay in The Misfits. He doesn't give in until he's left himself no other alternative, but it has to be his choice. This is his own stubbornness and hard-headeness as much as it is individuality. His character in *Strange Cargo* really took it to the last gasp before he finally broke, but ever true to form, he wasn't half-baked about it, he really repented all the way. That takes personality! I saw that "I Love Lucy" with Cianelli, too! I remember thinking, "What movie recently came to mind with him in it?" and now I realize it was this discussion of *Strange Cargo* I was recalling. I totally go for your idea about casting Victor McLaglen. though I do like Dekker as an actor, imagining Gable going toe to toe with Vic in a movie is tantalizing. They'd have made a much more fun and interesting pair than Gable and Beery did in their films together. Dear Vic. Agreed, too, about the ending. I think it must have been some conflict over the direction of the picture, maybe producer-itis hit and Borzage's original ideas were canned.

hi mololito, > That's a really good question. You are making me think! I'm sorry! Just please don't return the favor, I couldn't handle a real thought if I tried. > I guess the theme of redemption flows through so many films and takes a lot of different forms. Robert Ryan's Wilson in *On Dangerous Ground* goes through a redemptive process and seeing him up there in "Siberia" dealing with his belief system is really interesting. > *On Dangerous Ground* is a wonderful example. > On the lighter side, I also like Stanwyck's Lee Leander in *Remember the Night*. That's such a nice film and I think Fred MacMurray and his family have a healing effect on her. > I do like this film, in fact it's my favorite of her movies with MacMurray. This is a good example of a film that mixes light and dark quite well. There are many warm, humorous moments but there are also poignant ones, and grim ones, too, like when Barbara sees her mother after all that time. Tough going. I like the contrast of two people who grew up so near each other and yet, because one had love and the other didn't, it's like they lived in two different universes. > These may not be the best examples but they are two that came to mind. > I thought they were great. *The Devil and Daniel Webster* is another that comes to mind, also *Angel and the Bad Man*. Of course, I can't leave out Ford, and *The Long Voyage Home* you might say features both lost souls and the idea of redemption. It's not a happy ending all around and Ford leaves it to us whether one good deed has meant salvation or not. In *Cat People*, Irena is lost, as is Myra in *Waterloo Bridge*. Of course, the question could be asked are they merely lost to humanity while there is still hope for them with God, even if they die? > On the other side of the coin, I think that Jeff in *Out of the Past* is an irretrievably lost character. Jeff seems to have found his salvation in that little town, running the gas station with Dickie Moore's "kid" character, and finding love with Ann (Virginia Huston) but he is doomed by his past. > He is like Irena in that respect. > This would make a good discussion because there are so many different ways it can be expressed in a film. > Yes, I'd better stop now!

Thanks for posting the picture of Richard Egan with Charles Marquis Warren, Mongo---it is the first time I've seen a pic of the producer and director of many great TV westerns, including "Gunsmoke".

> Are you talking about the chase in *Suddenly, Last Summer* ? Are you responding to Liz's words? > Her words and Violet's, too, leading up to the climax. All those stories about what they saw, what Sebastian saw. The movie is definitely a dialogue driven film, typical of Mankiewicz. We're only shown glimpses of things. This somehow always impacted me more, my own images in my head were scarier than anything they could put up there. > > I really need to find Dreyer. I've only seen *Vampyr*. > ChiO likes Dreyer. > > I must say, your list is very thought-provoking. I was trying to figure out how a film can be scary without it being a horror film. After going over my favorites, it has revealed one big component to what I find horrifying: violent captivity. > > You'd probably like *The Collector*. > 1. *The Manchurian Candidate* > 2. *The Shooting* > 3. *The Tall T* > 4. *M* > 5. *The Incident* > 6. *The Wages of Fear* > 7. *Man of the West* > 8. *The Sniper* > 9. *T-Men* > 10. *Detour* > > *The Manchurian Candidate* and *The Sniper* are scary to me, too. I'm blanking out on *The Incident*, it sounds familiar but vague. > I'd say most every Hitchcock film has an element of fear with me. > Really? I thought *Psycho* was the scariest.

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}And how did they scare you? > > For me, I'll go with: > > 1. *Pride and Prejudice* > 2. *Gone with the Wind* > 3. *Sergeant York* > 4. *McLintock!* > 5. *She Wore a Yellow Ribbon* Well, you've managed to insult quite a few people with that. *In Cold Blood* is the kind of story that scares me because it's what really happens all the time and the way it's filmed which grisly enough for me still leaves plenty to the imagination. That makes it even rougher. *Suddenly, Last Summer* has that in common with *Picnic at Hanging Rock* in that something really awful happens but we're never shown much. Our imagination makes it worse, and the sense of place in each movie is really sinister. SLS uses words mostly to evoke the horrors and PaHR uses images and sounds. *Night of the Hunter* is scary the way a child sees things that frighten them. *Day of Wrath* has some pretty horrific imagery but the inner lives of the characters are just as scary. And Dreyer scares me, anyway.

Five non-horror movies that scared the heck out of me: 1. *Picnic at Hanging Rock* 2. *In Cold Blood* 3. *Suddenly, Last Summer* 4. *Day of Wrath* 5. *The Night of the Hunter*

Hola, mololito, > I've seen the film a few times over the years and I always find something new in it. While it's not exactly "comfort viewing", the message is one that I like. > Are there any other 'redemption' themed films you especially like? You could break up a lot of films into the "Lost and Found" categories, I bet. Some end with a character irretrievably lost (and usually dead) or one who makes a change for the better just in the nick of time. > Exactly. I really like how the film explores this with the various characters. Here they all are going about their cutthroat lives when in drops this "presence" that speaks to their souls. They can't dismiss him because he's too strong and steady. So they have to deal with him and, in the bargain, deal with themselves. It's interesting to see how each of them does this. > > They are on a perilous journey and not all will make it. Increasingly they are forced to deal with their own mortality. Cambreau can't save anyone physically, he can only speak to their spirit. Eventually even the hardest among them comes to an understanding of how much that means. > When you write it out like that, it's an exceptionally powerful movie! > Do you remember Hessler's reaction after those parting words with Cambreau? > No! I didn't recollect that expression at all. It looked like fear. Maybe he found out about himself too late and knew it. > I have one of Robert Osborne's old intros to this film and he mentions how Gable had just made *Gone With the Wind* and Crawford had just made *The Women* so they were both very popular and that they came into this film with a lot of gusto. They hadn't worked together in a while. > > Maybe it wasn't what the public expected or wanted. I'm not sure how it did on it's release but I know there was some controversy. I think you are right though, it doesn't appeal to everyone. At least you, Frank and I all enjoyed it. Hey wait! That could explain a lot right there! > That explains everything! I can imagine that a crowd that loves Gable and Crawford just aren't going to be happy with a movie like *Strange Cargo*. It probably scared Gable because it was quite a few years before he'd dice with such a soberly themed script again, and that ended up being his final film.

Yes, her eyes are very expressive and the camera certainly loved her.

That was a wonderful cross-section of tragic movie scenes...my goodness, it must have taken such effort to put together because as you say, the editing was done with great care. This features only clips from one movie, but it's also edited well and the music fits. I confess it makes me even sadder because the shadows that over "Myra" hung over the actress, my favorite, Vivien Leigh: Warning: This video contains huge spoilers, if you've never seen *Waterloo Bridge*.

A very good selection, PacNW...the only one I have not seen is *Ulzana's Raid*, which I hope to catch as it's currently airing on Encore Westerns this month. *MM*...I had no idea Karl Malden was going to be SOTM, that's pretty cool, I like him.

Ann Baxter's "Eve" was a good one, though not quite so deadly as the others.

> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}*Miss Goddess* - I think both of those gals are misunderstood. Carnally misunderstood. Aaaah Hillary Brooke... > > Am I diving off a bridge too far if I say: > > *Margaret Hamilton* as the Wicked Witch in "The Wizard of Oz"? I actually remembered Maggie at the last minute. She's unforgettable and a "must" for any such top ten list, I believe.

> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}I'm sorry if these have already been posted, I haven't been getting this thread in my watch files for such a long time. I'm sure it has already been seen by most of you but I got such a kick out of it. Classy, witty affectionate blooper reel from one of the best shows of all time. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-sZswWuZcc&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=SP6BC9CBF1B2B7B26C *Jackie*: I can't believe I missed this...love those "bloopers" from The Dick Van Dyke Show. It's hard to pick which shots were funnier, the mistakes or the ones that got printed. They're all delightful and everyone seemed so in synch with one another. Thanks for posting it. You should see the interviews and hear the commentaries on the DVDs for the show. Wonderful.

Jackie: I wasn't expecting much at all from *The Last Frontier*, but perhaps that's why it impressed me as being rather good! I won't class it with Mann's great westerns, but it's certainly worth watching and above average.

CinemAva: You know, Jane Greer in *Out of the Past* really should have been on my list. I did have her in mind then when I typed the list I totally forgot her! I'm sure there are others I forgot, too. A fun one is Hillary Brooke in the Sherlock Holmes classic, *The Woman in Green*. How would you classify Sister Ruth in *Black Narcissus* and Irena in Cat People? Villainous or Misunderstood?

Here you go, this is what I wrote (not much): *The Last Frontier* (Anthony Mann, 1955) A frontiersman (Victor Mature) scouts for a glory-riding Fort Lieutenant (Robert Preston) who's taken over the command of the more rational and peace-seeking Captain (Guy Madison). James Whitmore plays Mature's father, or man who raised him. Mann again looks at the wildness and violence inside even the most civilized men. Though Mature is a mountain man, "a bear" as he calls himself, and has no qualms about taking anything he needs, including another man's life or wife, he's still not as "savage" as Preston who will sacrifice his entire company of men to experience "victory". It's an exciting tale and if not in the league of the Stewart or Cooper westerns, definitely deserving of attention for its emotions and the unmistakable Anthony Mann fingerprints.

I wrote up a little bit on *The Last Frontier* a couple of months ago, when it was on Encore, along with a couple of other lesser known westerns.

I hope you feel better soon, movieman...take care of yourself. You may want to pick a more cheerful movie than *My Cousin Rachel*...especially for a sick man! Just be sure you avoid tisanes.

> > Yeah. My heart broke for Teresa Wright in that movie. Ooooh, I'd love to see your other nine. (I do hope Agnes Moorhead in "Dark Passage" makes the cut). > Some of these are just entertaining or interesting, but the first two are just loathesome to me. 1. Geraldine Page in *Toys in the Attic* 2. Hope Emerson in *Caged* 3. Gene Tierney in *Leave Her to Heaven* 4. Bette Davis in *The Little Foxes* 5. Judith Anderson in *Rebecca* 6. Ann Savage in *Detour* 7. Agnes Moorehead in *Dark Passage* 8. Jayne Meadows *Enchantment* 9. Bette Davis in *The Letter* 10. Margaret Hamilton in *The Wizard of Oz* 11. Jean Gillie in *Decoy* Edited by: MissGoddess on Feb 7, 2012 9:53 AM

*Jackie* I do not know why My Cousin Rachel is not more widely appreciated, perhaps it has only to appear on TCM to rectify this. I do believe it would find a ready audience with suspense enthusiasts, fans of the gothic, and of films like Rebecca, Jamaica Inn or even 1944's Jane Eyre. *CinemAva* I forgot to mention Jayne, who I wish had more screen time, as her character teased us with the thought that Allen (Robert Taylor) was really in love with her, and only sought to make Ann (Katharine Hepburn) over in her image. This would provide more of a neat parallel to Du Maurier's films. I think ultimately, the film may have failed because of its studio (MGM). It doesn't have any one distinct idea or tone, and that sometimes is a result of producer interference. It was before Minnelli scored his biggest hits and granted more autonomy. But you were asking about Jayne specifically...she's great, I think, at playing just what you describe: a statuesque noirish type. In fact, for the first time I questioned whether Kate Hepburn really was tall at all for she seemed positively dwarfed next to Jayne, even in platform heels! Jayne is outstanding in Enchantment, she's so awful! In fact, she earns a place as one of my top ten villainesses for that role. She played a similar type of "other woman" in the Tyrone Power whimsicality, Luck of the Irish and wasn't she in one of the (later) Thin Man movies? Yes, Jayne always makes an impression. I do like her (and her sister). *Kingrat* Underdrawers HAA!! Edited by: MissGoddess on Feb 6, 2012 8:34 PM

> {quote:title=kingrat wrote:}{quote}It doesn't help that Hepburn and Taylor have almost no chemistry. Hepburn and Mitchum have zero chemistry, or maybe even negative chemistry. There are few couples on screen ever who have had less chemistry. Kingrat, Ha! There was definitely no electricity in this *Undercurrent*. I can only imagine what sarcastic remarks Mitchum must have made about the production. Still, I enjoyed it okay, once I lowered my expectations.

My movie watching has been so scattered and really not worth mentioning, but two titles shared something in common: *Undercurrent* (1946) This movie is very hard to categorize. I suppose a "suspense" film comes closest to describing it, though it's fairly predictable. Vincente Minnelli directed an oddly assorted cast of very talented stars including Katharine Hepburn who was enjoying a peak, Robert Taylor who was branching out into darker characters, and Robert Mitchum, who's star was definitely on the rise. I think the most interesting thing about the movie is the casting, I never quite get over how strange they all seem with each other. Taylor has the easiest of it, he's playing a crazy man so he doesn't have to "gel" with the others, in fact, that is the main problem with his character, psychologrically speaking..even the doggie and horsey know it and the horse especially proves to be a good diagnostician. Mitchum never gets much to do except wear a trenchcoat more effectively than anyone since Bogart and look a bit blank in his scenes with Katie. Finally, poor Kate, I give her much credit for really trying. She's actually very good and believable (though one feels the role is one that could have been filled by almost any young actress) it's just that the movie falls apart or fails to ring true. In one of the strangest parts, she visits the "ranch" that supposedly belonged to her husband's (Taylor) brother, who has disappeared. It's a rather eclectically modernistic, ultra chic place...scarcely what I'd call a ranch, in which I can't see any chicken daring to peep its head let alone the kind of man Michael Galloway is described as being (unpretentious, down to earth), and Kate after inspecting it goes on and on about how it's so charming, such a "real home". It's beautiful and I actually liked it but I wouldn't have used any of those words to describe it. It's straight out of Architectural Digest and didn't look as if anyone dared move a thing out of place. I got the impression Minnelli spent more time ensuring the elements of decor worked together at this "ranch" than he did in getting a script and cast to be equally harmonious. I also watched *My Cousin Rachel* (1952), and quite by coincidence, I believe both movies may have featured the same piece of music by Brahms. I'm no expert, though, I just thought it funny this should happen by chance. Both movies also feature suspicion, paranoia and doubt about a potential mate. I'm not sure if TCM has ever broadcast this Fox film directed by Henry Koster, but it's an engrossing tale with gothic touches about paranoia and jealousy, and Richard Burton is outstanding in one of the best roles of his early film career. The ending is very enigmatic, in true Daphne Du Maurier fashion. One wonders what Hitchcock might have done with the material, as he was familiar with adapting her works and the skittish psychological territory was his native heath. I've never been able to feel quite the same about tisanes since I first saw this movie as a kid.

I think FrankGrimes mentioned seeing this one. I don't have it...I will see if Netflix can send it to me. I think I may have seen some parts with Francis, and being surprised at the size of his role. It sounds like fun. I tried watching *There Was a Crooked Man* but had to shut it off. I've tried a couple of times, since it was directed by Joseph L. Mankiewicz...his only western I believe...and stars Henry Fonda, but the vulgarity just turned me off. Some scenes are way too strong and tasteless. Censorship worked better for some directors, I think.