MissGoddess
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Posts posted by MissGoddess
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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}*Seriously, you deserve a lot of credit for just trying these films out. You did like some of the Fred and Ginger films though, didn't you? At least parts of them?*
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> Yes, very much so. They are entertaining. And you have proven to be right, I enjoy Fred.
Gee whiz! Molo, did you see that? Where's rohanaka? FrankGrimes saying he liked Fred Astaire makes me fear all the ropes have thawed out and someplace else froze!
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> That's probably my bravest step, thus far. For me to own their box set is something I would have never guessed of myself.
>
the act of a desperate movie watcher!
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> *i confess I thought you could go either way on several, mostly on the "not like" side. with Summertime I took a gamble on your liking Kate's performance a lot, even though I can't see it being your kind of movie at all.*
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>
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So why would it not be my kind of film?>
the setting mostly. you're a snob about Europe!
> I've noticed that with you. If you really like a film, you usually expect me to not like it.
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because i like romantic and glamorous and you don't!
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> *I'll never understand your rankings! What does that mean?*
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> It's how far you were off on your guesses. If you guessed a film to be #5 and I have it at #8, it's "3 spots" off.
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so i was two places off from most of them? that's better than i usually do.
> Yes, that's the film. I figured it was that one because I don't see you as that big of a fan of Abbott & Costello.
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is that the one about jack and the beanstalk? i liked that one as a kid.
> I definitely know you are not into sci-fi, hence my surprise in your liking the film.
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so many other sci-fi movies tried to capture that camaraderie but they fail. the 'chemistry' of this one is just right, you might say.
> *Love all the character actors that I've seen in a thousand movies and TV shows.*
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>
> I only knew of the guy in the suit!
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which one was that?!
> I think you hit on it perfectly. Doulgas does play "lazy" really well. My kind of guy!
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his warmth also plays well with the (initial) dourness of Greta's Ninotchka.
> It's amazing how he jams so much into his film without you ever noticing. It's hardly ever obtrusive.
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so true. he comments on a thousand personal and universal things and I'm so busy laughing I often can't take it all in.
> That's because Lauren is playing you!
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No way, I only wish I had her confidence. She's a leader, what they now would call an "alpha female". That's not me. Not unless all the other girls were ten times dopier than the ones in the movie.
> That's a wonderful description. He really is a living painting. He has the same look at all times.
>
that's perfect, he is the painting, only did you notice that his original portrait makes him look kindlier than he did in real life?
> Ah, yes, Brandon (John Dall). I didn't think of the similarity between the two of them, but you are right.
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maybe not in personality, but in appearance (style, presentation) and they both had these perfect apartments and of course in how they thought. Dall was more dynamic, though.
> He's very much sexless. *Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde* is about how we men have to put forth our gentleman appearance while hiding our sexual desires. *The Picture of Dorian Gray* is about one's vanity and soul.
>
The book is also about sexual appetite but not specifically. In the movie, sexual depravity is pretty much lumped in with all the major sins which Dorian systematically explores.
> Bad events are merely challenges for you. They are not about the other persons affected, it's about you.
>
Well said.
I thought a very interesting scene, with Mollot (Sanders), was the dinner party. It was VERY much like the one in *Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde*, where the protagonist's ideas are explained. Did you notice the politician's reaction? How at first he stood up, pretended to be outraged and about to leave? Then Mollot just watched, waiting to see if his hunch that this man was nothing but a phoney hypocrite like the rest, would be proven true. And it was. The man was tempted by the feast (he was a fat glutton) and the company. Mollot looks so supremely, cynically satisfied. Mollot is really the "mad scientist" and Dorian his Frankenstein's monster.
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> *Oh please.*
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> Oh, no! Not another "F," Teach!
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You know something just occurred to me, Jackie. If I had to choose whether to be alone in a room with Monsieur Pig (Peter Lorre, Strange Cargo) or Dorian Gray, I'd take my chances with Piggy.
Edited by: MissGoddess on Feb 17, 2012 10:45 PM
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> I'm trying! This is why I like watching the favorites of others. It's going to help me out.
>
If having a grasp of a broad range of classics is your aim, you sure are hitting the mark. I still can't believe you watched more than one Astaire/Rogers flick.
i confess I thought you could go either way on several, mostly on the "not like" side. with *Summertime* I took a gamble on your liking Kate's performance a lot, even though I can't see it being your kind of movie at all.
the only one I felt reasonably sure you would like was *Thieves Highway*. My lack of interest in it is reason enough!
> I'm not going to reveal how I liked them in case others wish to guess. You didn't hit any on the nose. Here's how you scored:
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> 1 spot (2)
> 2 spots (2)
> 3 spots (2)
> 4 spots (2)
> 5 spots (2)
> 6 spots (2)
> 8 spots (2)
> 9 spots
> 11 spots
> 12 spots (2)
> 13 spots (2)
>
I'll never understand your rankings! What does that mean?
> Did I watch the right "Little Giant"? I've been trying to watch your top 50 list of all-time favorites that you posted a good three years ago and this title was on your list.
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If it's the Edward G. Robinson/Mary Astor movie, yes. I enjoyed it so much! I'm not a fan of gangster movies as a rule, so this little send-up quite charmed me and seemed like one of those movies most people overlook.
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> I didn't realize you like *The Thing from Another World* that much. I'm surprised *Carefree* ranks so lowly. I'm guessing it's because there isn't much dancing and the romance is silly. I certainly wouldn't have guessed you liking *The Picture of Dorian Gray* so much. I mostly knew your feelings on the other films with the exception of *In Name Only*.
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TTFAW is another that I seem to have watched countless times since childhood, only not intentionally. Yet every time it's on, I'm fascinated and totally drawn into it. That's pretty rare with a sci-fi. It definitely feels completely "Hawksian", so if Nyby directed every scene, he seemed to have copied Howard or taken every single suggestion he made. All the by-play between the characters and the "romance" are far more interesting than the science fiction, and yet that aspect is very well represented, especially the "mad" scientist who often makes a lot of sense.
Love all the character actors that I've seen in a thousand movies and TV shows.
> Really? There's no way I would have guessed that.
>
About Ninotchka being an old favorite? It used to be practically my all time favorite (after GWTW, of course). and I guess I must like Melvyn Douglas in his role because I have no problem with his casting (he's frequently an obstacle for many). Cary Grant was suggested but for some reason the role was given to Douglas. I think Douglas plays "lazy" convincingly. I just love his brief exchanges with his butler.
Lubitsch's send-up of political philosophies, Marxism in particular here, but not alone, is hilarious. Anything "extremist" comes under his gentle but pointed humor.>
> *and How to Marry a Millionaire (ditto).*
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> Yeah, that one I get.
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I love Lauren Bacall's lines, she really makes me laugh. "Gesundheit." And Marilyn is such a little doll.>
> His blankness really is phenomenal. He's definitely playing the pretty boy with a selfish, cold heart.
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He's like a little statue. Perfect, polished, not a hair or word out of place. No emotion at all. Your *Rope* comparison is spot on!! He's like the young man, the dominant one, I forget his name, who carried through Rupert's theories.
> It definitely reminded me of that film because of the setting and the monstrosity. It lacks the sexuality of *Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde*, though.
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Yes, they shied away from that. I think they were scared of the censors. Also, one of the odd things about Hatfield's Dorian is that he comes across utterly sexless to me.
> Oh, he puts on a show. It's arguably my favorite of his. He reminds me of Rupert Cadell (Jimmy Stewart) in *Rope*.
>
That is so brilliant! I never would have thought to compare them and now I'm wondering if Hitch had this character in mind. Not from the movie necessarily, but the literary original. How far will a man go to see his "theories" proved? How oblivious are the intellectually "superior" to their influence?
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> She was very sweet, very much the "little yellow bird." But don't we men have to take "tests"?! I should know! My report card is full of "F's"!
>
Oh please.
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> {quote:title=butterscotchgreer wrote:}{quote}'Ello Dahlink!
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'Ello, duckie!
> I miss you! Do you mind if I join in the chat about Dorian Gray?
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Please do! I think it has a lot to offer for discussion.
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> That analogy was very well worded! You perfectly explained the relationship between Angela and Dorian. It was certainly horrid how he used "Sibyl" to hide his cowardly side. She didn't see that in him. She was blinded by his clever act as she thought he was the man of her dreams.
I was pretty much dribbling my thoughts there in one gigantic run-away paragraph!
I'm glad you named Angela's character, I'd forgotten she was called "Sibyl". Female prophet is one of the meanings of the name, and her sad little song certainly was prophetic for her, and in a way, for Dorian. He'd never have been content to be just "a sparrow".
Tell me something, do you think if Dorian could have foreseen how it would all end, would he have done any differently?
> But i see her character as always seeing the good in everything. It was those little things that made him appreciate her, only after she was gone. what did you think about Donna Reed's character, "Glady's Hallward"?
>
I thought Gladys was sweet, but I confess that I was distracted the last time I watched the movie during most of her scenes.
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What an amazingly eclectic batch of films!
Here's how I think you may have liked them:
1. Thieves' Highway
2. Summertime
3. The Picture of Dorian Gray
4. The Thing from Another Planet
5. Beauty and the Beast (1946)
6. Buchanan Rides Again
7. Born to Be Bad (1950)
8. Heaven Can Wait (1943)
9. In Name Only
10. Murders in the Zoo
11. Dark Journey
12. City Streets
13. The Mark of Zorro
14. The Roaring Twenties
15. Room Service
16. The High and the Mighty
17. Ninotchka
18. The Little Giant
19. Carefree
20. How to Marry a Millionaire
My rankings:
1. Summertime
2. Beauty and the Beast (1946) (Exquisite!)
3. The Picture of Dorian Gray
4. Ninotchka
5. Dark Journey
6. How to Marry a Millionaire
7. In Name Only
8. The Thing from Another Planet
9. The Little Giant
10. The Mark of Zorro
11. Room Service
12. The Roaring Twenties
13. Murders in the Zoo
14. Heaven Can Wait (1943)
15. The High and the Mighty
16. City Streets
17. Born to Be Bad (1950)
18. Buchanan Rides Again*
19. Carefree
20. Thieves' Highway
*This one was ranked so low because I don't remember anything about it. I know I've seen it and liked it fair, but I need to do so again.
Most of these movies, with a couple of excceptions, are kind of in the middle for me. Two of them are childhood favorites: *Ninotchka* (which has to be one of the top three or four films that I have seen the most often), and *How to Marry a Millionaire* (ditto). One that has risen the most is *The Picture of Dorian Gray*. When I first saw it and read the story years ago, i was rather repulsed, as I think we should be, by Dorian himself (the character). He was so brilliantly played by poor Hurd Hatfiled. There was such a corpse-like coldness in his performance and the only thing living in that deadly beautiful face of his was his burning eyes...I just couldn't get past that for the longest. I've since re-watched it a couple of times and become more fascinated by the psychology. it reminds me a lot of Fleming's *Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde* in the exploration of selfishness vs self-control. I don't even pay attention to the little kitty anymore (something else that always disturbed me), it seems an excuse we don't need to explain Hurd's submission to his own basest cravings. Then there's Georgie, instigating with dispassion the most ghastly tragedies. He's a puppeteer, too lazy to test his own theories so he prompts others, like a devil's own advocate, to carry out little "experiments" to prove his cynical views are the well founded. What brought out the painful remorseful tragic aspect of it all was poor Angela's "little yellow bird". She was so sure she'd found what she had been waiting for. "A real gentleman." Of all the horrid things Dorian did, nothing was as hateful to me as his little "test". It showed such a lack of owning his own mind, the way he so easily succumbed to Lord Wotton's (Sanders) suggestion and this quality is a dangerous one, just as dangerous as Wotton's own misplaced confidence in the rightness of his ideas.
Edited by: MissGoddess on Feb 17, 2012 9:21 PM
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Jackie I loved your post. You wrote what I feel about the characters, well, except for M. Pig.
He mocked belief, and that is something those in doubt do, to protect themselves.
That's great! I think you have it, there. "Mocking" is Gable's forte. It's a word that Margaret Mitchell used more than any other when describing her "Rhett Butler". And his (Gable's) mocking characters are almost all summed up when Rhett confessed to thinking very little of himself when he left her on the road to Tara, and that he wasn't even sure of his own motives for going off to fight when the fight was nearly lost. It goes all the way to Gay in The Misfits. He doesn't give in until he's left himself no other alternative, but it has to be his choice. This is his own stubbornness and hard-headeness as much as it is individuality. His character in *Strange Cargo* really took it to the last gasp before he finally broke, but ever true to form, he wasn't half-baked about it, he really repented all the way. That takes personality!
I saw that "I Love Lucy" with Cianelli, too! I remember thinking, "What movie recently came to mind with him in it?" and now I realize it was this discussion of *Strange Cargo* I was recalling.
I totally go for your idea about casting Victor McLaglen. though I do like Dekker as an actor, imagining Gable going toe to toe with Vic in a movie is tantalizing. They'd have made a much more fun and interesting pair than Gable and Beery did in their films together. Dear Vic.
Agreed, too, about the ending. I think it must have been some conflict over the direction of the picture, maybe producer-itis hit and Borzage's original ideas were canned.
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hi mololito,
> That's a really good question. You are making me think!
I'm sorry! Just please don't return the favor, I couldn't handle a real thought if I tried.
> I guess the theme of redemption flows through so many films and takes a lot of different forms. Robert Ryan's Wilson in *On Dangerous Ground* goes through a redemptive process and seeing him up there in "Siberia" dealing with his belief system is really interesting.
>
*On Dangerous Ground* is a wonderful example.
> On the lighter side, I also like Stanwyck's Lee Leander in *Remember the Night*. That's such a nice film and I think Fred MacMurray and his family have a healing effect on her.
>
I do like this film, in fact it's my favorite of her movies with MacMurray. This is a good example of a film that mixes light and dark quite well. There are many warm, humorous moments but there are also poignant ones, and grim ones, too, like when Barbara sees her mother after all that time. Tough going. I like the contrast of two people who grew up so near each other and yet, because one had love and the other didn't, it's like they lived in two different universes.
> These may not be the best examples but they are two that came to mind.
>
I thought they were great. *The Devil and Daniel Webster* is another that comes to mind, also *Angel and the Bad Man*. Of course, I can't leave out Ford, and *The Long Voyage Home* you might say features both lost souls and the idea of redemption. It's not a happy ending all around and Ford leaves it to us whether one good deed has meant salvation or not.
In *Cat People*, Irena is lost, as is Myra in *Waterloo Bridge*. Of course, the question could be asked are they merely lost to humanity while there is still hope for them with God, even if they die?
> On the other side of the coin, I think that Jeff in *Out of the Past* is an irretrievably lost character. Jeff seems to have found his salvation in that little town, running the gas station with Dickie Moore's "kid" character, and finding love with Ann (Virginia Huston) but he is doomed by his past.
>
He is like Irena in that respect.
> This would make a good discussion because there are so many different ways it can be expressed in a film.
>
Yes, I'd better stop now!
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Thanks for posting the picture of Richard Egan with Charles Marquis Warren, Mongo---it is the first time I've seen a pic of the producer and director of many great TV westerns, including "Gunsmoke".
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> Are you talking about the chase in *Suddenly, Last Summer* ? Are you responding to Liz's words?
>
Her words and Violet's, too, leading up to the climax. All those stories about what they saw, what Sebastian saw. The movie is definitely a dialogue driven film, typical of Mankiewicz. We're only shown glimpses of things. This somehow always impacted me more, my own images in my head were scarier than anything they could put up there.
>
> I really need to find Dreyer. I've only seen *Vampyr*.
>
ChiO likes Dreyer.
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> I must say, your list is very thought-provoking. I was trying to figure out how a film can be scary without it being a horror film. After going over my favorites, it has revealed one big component to what I find horrifying: violent captivity.
>
>
You'd probably like *The Collector*.
> 1. *The Manchurian Candidate*
> 2. *The Shooting*
> 3. *The Tall T*
> 4. *M*
> 5. *The Incident*
> 6. *The Wages of Fear*
> 7. *Man of the West*
> 8. *The Sniper*
> 9. *T-Men*
> 10. *Detour*
>
>
*The Manchurian Candidate* and *The Sniper* are scary to me, too. I'm blanking out on *The Incident*, it sounds familiar but vague.
> I'd say most every Hitchcock film has an element of fear with me.
>
Really? I thought *Psycho* was the scariest.
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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}And how did they scare you?
>
> For me, I'll go with:
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> 1. *Pride and Prejudice*
> 2. *Gone with the Wind*
> 3. *Sergeant York*
> 4. *McLintock!*
> 5. *She Wore a Yellow Ribbon*
Well, you've managed to insult quite a few people with that.
*In Cold Blood* is the kind of story that scares me because it's what really happens all the time and the way it's filmed which grisly enough for me still leaves plenty to the imagination. That makes it even rougher.
*Suddenly, Last Summer* has that in common with *Picnic at Hanging Rock* in that something really awful happens but we're never shown much. Our imagination makes it worse, and the sense of place in each movie is really sinister. SLS uses words mostly to evoke the horrors and PaHR uses images and sounds.
*Night of the Hunter* is scary the way a child sees things that frighten them.
*Day of Wrath* has some pretty horrific imagery but the inner lives of the characters are just as scary. And Dreyer scares me, anyway.
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Five non-horror movies that scared the heck out of me:
1. *Picnic at Hanging Rock*
2. *In Cold Blood*
3. *Suddenly, Last Summer*
4. *Day of Wrath*
5. *The Night of the Hunter*
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Hola, mololito,
> I've seen the film a few times over the years and I always find something new in it. While it's not exactly "comfort viewing", the message is one that I like.
>
Are there any other 'redemption' themed films you especially like? You could break up a lot of films into the "Lost and Found" categories, I bet. Some end with a character irretrievably lost (and usually dead) or one who makes a change for the better just in the nick of time.
> Exactly. I really like how the film explores this with the various characters. Here they all are going about their cutthroat lives when in drops this "presence" that speaks to their souls. They can't dismiss him because he's too strong and steady. So they have to deal with him and, in the bargain, deal with themselves. It's interesting to see how each of them does this.
>
> They are on a perilous journey and not all will make it. Increasingly they are forced to deal with their own mortality. Cambreau can't save anyone physically, he can only speak to their spirit. Eventually even the hardest among them comes to an understanding of how much that means.
>
When you write it out like that, it's an exceptionally powerful movie!
> Do you remember Hessler's reaction after those parting words with Cambreau?
>
No! I didn't recollect that expression at all. It looked like fear. Maybe he found out about himself too late and knew it.
> I have one of Robert Osborne's old intros to this film and he mentions how Gable had just made *Gone With the Wind* and Crawford had just made *The Women* so they were both very popular and that they came into this film with a lot of gusto. They hadn't worked together in a while.
>
> Maybe it wasn't what the public expected or wanted. I'm not sure how it did on it's release but I know there was some controversy. I think you are right though, it doesn't appeal to everyone. At least you, Frank and I all enjoyed it. Hey wait! That could explain a lot right there!
>
That explains everything! I can imagine that a crowd that loves Gable and Crawford just aren't going to be happy with a movie like *Strange Cargo*. It probably scared Gable because it was quite a few years before he'd dice with such a soberly themed script again, and that ended up being his final film.
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Yes, her eyes are very expressive and the camera certainly loved her.
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That was a wonderful cross-section of tragic movie scenes...my goodness, it must have taken such effort to put together because as you say, the editing was done with great care.
This features only clips from one movie, but it's also edited well and the music fits. I confess it makes me even sadder because the shadows that over "Myra" hung over the actress, my favorite, Vivien Leigh:
Warning: This video contains huge spoilers, if you've never seen *Waterloo Bridge*.
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A very good selection, PacNW...the only one I have not seen is *Ulzana's Raid*, which I hope to catch as it's currently airing on Encore Westerns this month.
*MM*...I had no idea Karl Malden was going to be SOTM, that's pretty cool, I like him.
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Ann Baxter's "Eve" was a good one, though not quite so deadly as the others.
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> {quote:title=CineMaven wrote:}{quote}*Miss Goddess* - I think both of those gals are misunderstood. Carnally misunderstood. Aaaah Hillary Brooke...
>
> Am I diving off a bridge too far if I say:
>
> *Margaret Hamilton* as the Wicked Witch in "The Wizard of Oz"?
I actually remembered Maggie at the last minute. She's unforgettable and a "must" for any such top ten list, I believe.
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> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}I'm sorry if these have already been posted, I haven't been getting this thread in my watch files for such a long time. I'm sure it has already been seen by most of you but I got such a kick out of it. Classy, witty affectionate blooper reel from one of the best shows of all time.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-sZswWuZcc&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=SP6BC9CBF1B2B7B26C
*Jackie*: I can't believe I missed this...love those "bloopers" from The Dick Van Dyke Show. It's hard to pick which shots were funnier, the mistakes or the ones that got printed. They're all delightful and everyone seemed so in synch with one another. Thanks for posting it. You should see the interviews and hear the commentaries on the DVDs for the show. Wonderful.
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Jackie:
I wasn't expecting much at all from *The Last Frontier*, but perhaps that's why it impressed me as being rather good! I won't class it with Mann's great westerns, but it's certainly worth watching and above average.
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CinemAva:
You know, Jane Greer in *Out of the Past* really should have been on my list. I did have her in mind then when I typed the list I totally forgot her! I'm sure there are others I forgot, too.
A fun one is Hillary Brooke in the Sherlock Holmes classic, *The Woman in Green*.
How would you classify Sister Ruth in *Black Narcissus* and Irena in Cat People? Villainous or Misunderstood?
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Here you go, this is what I wrote (not much):
*The Last Frontier* (Anthony Mann, 1955)
A frontiersman (Victor Mature) scouts for a glory-riding Fort Lieutenant (Robert Preston) who's taken over the command of the more rational and peace-seeking Captain (Guy Madison). James Whitmore plays Mature's father, or man who raised him. Mann again looks at the wildness and violence inside even the most civilized men. Though Mature is a mountain man, "a bear" as he calls himself, and has no qualms about taking anything he needs, including another man's life or wife, he's still not as "savage" as Preston who will sacrifice his entire company of men to experience "victory". It's an exciting tale and if not in the league of the Stewart or Cooper westerns, definitely deserving of attention for its emotions and the unmistakable Anthony Mann fingerprints.
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I wrote up a little bit on *The Last Frontier* a couple of months ago, when it was on Encore, along with a couple of other lesser known westerns.
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I hope you feel better soon, movieman...take care of yourself. You may want to pick a more cheerful movie than *My Cousin Rachel*...especially for a sick man! Just be sure you avoid tisanes.
So why would it not be my kind of film?
The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread
in Your Favorites
Posted
> Oh, but dribbling is a good thing, hence the creation of your rambles thread. i should only hope to dribble as well as you one day!
>
that's mighty kind of you to say! maybe my next thread should be entitled "dribbles".
> "Sibyl' is one of my top 100 favorite characters! I love her innocence. It is so different from the other characters Angel has ever played. But I don't think she knew she was being prophetic, ironically. She was just in search of an adventure in her life. The true meaning of happiness. Dorian was selfish in this way. He smothered her.
>
I agree she was unaware of any impending doom. She thought she'd found her dream prince, her, as she calls him, Sir Tristam, wasn't it? A knight in shining armor. And then he basely is called by that name later on, in fact it is the name that tipped off her brother who Dorian really was.
I thought she was a remarkable girl, not the usual portrayal of a show girl. In fact, she was the innocent one and her parents, her mother particularly, were rather conniving. You get the feeling her mother would have sold Sybil out for the first man with money who came along.
> That's a really interesting question to fathom. you know, i don't think he would have done anything differently. He was blinded heavily by his selfishness. Even when he had his moment of self-discovery, by unveling the painting, you could still see the "coldness" as you perfectly put it in his eyes. I don't think he ever would have cared about Sibyl (for example) the way he should have or she even wanted him to. I also don't hink he could have loved himself as he should. True, he was self-centered, but he didn't know the meaning of love.
>
PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY SPOILER
That was excellent and I think I agree. I mean, if he knew he'd end up old and ugly anyway, then he might think twice, but the consequences to other people alone would not be enough of a deterrent.
> *I thought Gladys was sweet, but I confess that I was distracted the last time I watched the movie during most of her scenes.*
>
> distracted by what?
A phone call! I hate to be rude and rush people off but sometimes they call right when I'm watching something...and I remember when *The Picture of Dorian Gray* came on, I had just gotten about 30 minutes into it when a friend called and we talked until almost the very end of the film. It was then I regretted not having recorded it.
I've seen it before of course, but I wanted a refresher.