MissGoddess

Will Wright's very good, I didn't know that about his background. He was in a lot of TV shows, too. I remember him as the mean shopkeeper, Ben, in "The Andy Griffith Show" and he was in a couple of "I Love Lucy" episodes. he was everywhere. That screencapture looks like it's from *People Will Talk*. He was a real selfish miser in that one, wasn't he? Though a couple of things he said actually made sense. Harry, Sr., of course, though he was a pioneer western lead. Without him there would have been no John Wayne/John Ford. You can say the same about Francis.

I'm glad you liked *The Big Country*. It's one of those I grew up watching.

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}*I know, it's more about the whole story, the event. I just like Spence and Gene.* > > The story itself was quite dry. I wanted something to happen. > they started thanksgiving day! what's next on your list?

> There just wasn't anything to it, I felt. Spence is grumpy and he has a thing for Gene, but that's about it. > I know, it's more about the whole story, the event. I just like Spence and Gene. > Did you just watch it or are you going on memory? I like it because I love the impending doom within the house. I like that kind of tension. And then the twist is pretty good. > I watched it twice last yearl > *It reminds me of Agatha Christie's Ten Little Indians...have you seen that one?* > > No, I haven't seen any Agatha Christie. > I think you'd enjoy this version, the best by far: http://youtu.be/8eWm1zi8ESk > I really enjoyed watching all of the Rathbone/Bruce Sherlocks. They are quite enjoyable and rather addictive. I'm glad you like them. They are such fun and indeed, addictive.

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}*I'm just bumping this back up. Frank why don't you put the two lists together?* > > All righty. > > 1. Earrings of Madame de... > 2. The Phenix City Story > 3. The Scarlet Claw > 4. Contraband > 5. The House of Fear > 6. Invitation to a Gunfighter > 7. Susan Slept Here > 8. Great Expectations > 9. Along Came Jones > 10. Obsession > 11. The End of the Affair > 12. Desk Set > 13. China Seas > 14. A Day at the Races > 15. The Last Sunset > 16. Me and My Gal > 17. The Woman in Green > 18. The Pearl of Death > 19. Lady of Burlesque > 20. Another Thin Man > 21. Rendezvous > 22. Pursuit to Algiers > 23. The Tattered Dress > 24. Safe in Hell > 25. The Gay Divorcee > 26. Skyscraper Souls > 27. Wife vs. Secretary > 28. Plymouth Adventure I can't believe you hated *Plymouth Adventure* that much. Why did you like *House of Fear* so much? I like it too. It reminds me of Agatha Christie's Ten Little Indians...have you seen that one?

I thought I'd put a link below for anyone interested in Peter Bogdanovich's review of *The Student Prince in Old Heidelberg*. It was very interesting to learn that the hilltop scenes were not directed by Lubitsch, but by John M. Stahl (Leave Her to Heaven) at MGM's insistence. http://blogs.indiewire.com/peterbogdanovich/the-student-prince-in-old-heidelberg?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed What I'm saying is that you are left with your memories of the past. That's always a double-edged sword since the feelings can make you feel wonderful but knowing you can't return to them can be very tough to deal with. I'm not sure he'll ever feel wonderful remembering, only pain.

CinemAva, thanks for your words on *The Phenix City Story* and for giving it a shot (no pun intended, ha). I just saw John Larch in an episode of "Rawhide". You can guess what kind of character he played. And his mouth was still open. I hadn't thought to compare TPCS to *Touch of Evil*, it reminded me more of *Captive City* in style and in the fact the towns depicted were not entirely "wide open" like the border town in *Touch of Evil*. I believe they even pointed out the irony that Phenix City had more churches per capita than any other city in the state. To me, *Touch of Evil* is more of a creative work of the imagination, and TPCS is like a newspaper expose, a documentary style movie. They never get me emotionally as much, either. Nor do procedurals, with some exceptions. I watched *Armored Car Robbery* a few days and it about put me to sleep it was such a bore (in spite of a good cast including Charles McGrowl ). I'm afraid I wanted to see the bad guys torn to shreds by the mob, and then the militia come in to break up the joint, though the non-violent ending was very uplifting and boringly appropriately p.c.. I do realize that fighting violence with violence is never the right way to go. But yet... I confess that made me laugh! I'm surprised you don't like westerns more, and John Wayne! (Fourth column, 6th down) http://www.aeonity.com/ab/soundboards/celebrity/john-wayne.php

> You're right, Marshall Cotton (Ryan) was the more human of the two law men. But he was also a defeated man. The fight was taken out of him. He was simply a placeholder. However, he remained sharp and wise. I feel he was the smarter of the two law men. > I'm not sure about smarter, but wiser, yes. Like that great line in *Rio Bravo* or *El Dorado* goes, "I'd hate to live on the difference." You know Cotton wouldn't have let a woman like Sheree get away from him just for the job. > > *Lancaster may be the more purely right in terms of executing the law to the letter, but he's like a machine.* > > > That's a very good point. And I think that's what the film is remarking on. Can the law be compassionate? Maddox's (Burt Lancaster) approach borders on cold and heartless, even though he really is in the right. > I'm with movieman on this that it's the enforcement of the law that's being examined, and not only how people react to the enforcers, but what that kind of role in society does to the enforcer himself. We know we need the "sword" (or in that and today's world, the gun) but many have no respect for its handler. > It really is a great character. I thought Maddox was also a great character, and played magnificently by Lancaster. Is he ever off? > It's great seeing Ryan and Lancaster particularly at this point. Their day is passing. Ryan has accepted it, Lancaster doesn't really reflect on it until perhaps the very end. I also agree with what movieman said about how once they get Lancaster started he wasn't going to slow down...he gave them every chance to let him just ride away but they kept prodding the rattler. And I also think that he shot poor J.D. to free Sheree. Like Doniphon, he did murder but "he could live with it". He can ride away because he had the letter of the law on his side since the man was technically escaping and shooting in the back or the front wasn't going to bother him.

It's too "soft" for you I'm sure, and the setting isn't for you. I don't believe however that the movie is saying you can go back in memories, just the opposite. You cannot go back if the heavy hand of the past and tradition remains on your back. The past is dead and can be death-dealing, on many levels.

Forgive me for jumping around so much, but Jackie did you catch "Bitter Waters", the John Brahm Screen Directors Playhouse that just aired...with our Georgie? It was really good! It was based on a Henry James story, "Louisa Pallant", that I'm sure I must have read back in my HJ phase but have no recollection. What surprised me was seeing George play such a decent, honorable fellow, ha! And Robert Vaughn is a good choice to play his nephew. I always thought Vaughn had a slight hauteur to his manner, which makes him an ideal relation of Sanders. I wish I had recorded this one. They sneak these DPH episodes in and of course I don't bother to look over the schedule.

lol! T, I don't know why I resisted watching this movie ever since it was restored and has since appeared a couple of times on TCM (and on DVD). After all, Lubitsch is my second favorite director and this is one of his most famous, if not the most famous of his silent films. It may have been the stars (I've nothing against them, they just aren't favorites) or the setting (yet he's made so many movies in this world) or the plot just didn't sound like anything that thrilling. But I should have trusted the director. I don't normally associate such affecting emotional poignancy with Lubitsch and I'd have missed a very, very special work in his cannon if I'd continued to ignore *The Student Prince*. I still don't know if you'll really like this kind of story and emotions, but as a true blue CineMaven, it can't hurt to watch a true silent classic made by a master. I might add Carl Davis' score was really lovely, too...perfectly in tune with the emotions in the scenes. Seems we all have been stepping afar from our usual trails: Jackie with *Lover Come Back*, you with *Wagon Master* and me with *The Phenix City Story*. Whew, what is this place coming to?

A SPOILER IN OLD HEIDELBERG > At first, I was horrified that the town had changed, and that the Saxonians were different, the hill was different...and now he must be deferred to since he was king....I wanted him to have that time in a free environment so badly! But then my mind started to play tricks on me. I started to think that maybe the town was never the way he originally saw it, through that veil of newness, and bright joy at being in the world for the first time, and in love. Maybe the town was never as beautiful as it was to him during those first tentative steps into the real world. > I never thought of it that way! You could be right! Or maybe it is what Lubistch was going for, a momentary befuddlement of our senses...did it all really exist before? Or was I (Karl, the audience) only dreaming? Sometimes memories are like dreams. In fact, once an experience passes into memory, I guess it is the same as a dream, it is an idea that sparks emotion and longing. > But I guess I still think that it all changed, that the taint of his power (which he never exerted or even wanted) finally over-rode the comaraderie of his friends. He would never again be comfortable with anyone, they would all be yes men. But I keep clinging to the thought that he still had old Kellerman back at the palace! > Bless old Kellerman! I was so happy when he turned up, just as you say, some good "angel" always turned up just when Karl H. needed them most. The way Lubitsch weaves the ironies...here is a boy grown into a man who never really got to be a boy ("Stay young, Karl Heinrich!" urged Dr. Juttner) and when he finally gets to experience some joy and freedom, he is right away snatched backward into the old, staid, dead world of tradition. Then he tries to go back but the past is dead. Irony of ironies that being trapped by a world that is living in the past he tries to escape by going back into the past. > I LOVED that reaction, first the boys', and then Karl Heinrich's! He was so cute waving to them and excited! You'd think they would want him to inspire the boys, to connect with them, but the old men don't see that. They only see the rules. > That's right, they see his "function" not him. When his train arrives in the beginning, I was expecting a young man...again, what a great intro. Lubitsch shows all this pomp and circumstance and what steps out...a tiny, delicate looking little innocent child. What a contrast!! It's really monstrous to think this receptive little creature is to be molded into an automaton, a functionary of noblesse oblige.

I've seen *Belle Starr* before...Gene was definitely miscast and still in what she called her "Minnie Mouse" stage with the squeaky voice. She's awfully cute but a believable Belle Starr, nooooo... Dana is incredibly handsome. And yes, the music is "Fordian" alright, the piece they use is Alfred Newman's Ann Rutledge theme recycled from 1939's *Young Mr. Lincoln*.

STUDENT PRINCE SPOILERS Wasn't it heartbreaking when the prince returned to Heidelberg, thinking he was going to be able to recapture for just one day all the old times, and even the Saxonians had changed toward him (now that he was King)? All the life was drained, literally, out of the inn and the memories. Only Kathi's love still survived. I also love that Lubitsch did NOT show us Karl's bride in the carriage. That was great...a lesser director would have. It's hard to think of a moment that isn't heartbreaking. I loved Dr. Juttner, by the way. I was SO glad when he turned up after the nurse was sent away. That poor wee lad, that was my first time the floodgates burst. Oh! And in that marvelous parade in the opening scenes that you described where all the hats are being waved...and you see the ONLY people who greet Karl Heinrich with any individuality and real joy that doesn't have to do with his status are the young children. And it's the first time Karl smiles and looks happy. Little does he know he won't be allowed to play with them.

Jackie that was the most exquisite review of *The Student Prince in Old Heidelberg*...you caught so many wonderful details and found their meaning that I would have to watch a couple more times to notice. I did notice the hats but I didn't pull it all together with all their collective meaning...excellent! And the hand-on-heart gestures...wow! I missed so many details yet it still struck me so forcibly. I still can't get over how poignant this movie was...and as you brilliantly say, it's done with such a lightness of touch. This somehow makes the overbearing environment that has Karl Heinrich imprisoned all the more imposing. Lubitsch shows humanity and youth coping and struggling to stay in the sunlight in that ponderous world, straight-jacketed by tradition and "duty". This is truly an "old world" story. I kept thinking it's no wonder the United States was able to climb up on its hind legs and take over so quickly...it was completely unburdened by history and tradition like Europe. Lubitsch knows people, knows history, so well. In a way, his manner of showing the sacrifice and cost of tradition is the old world version of how Ford would show it costing, eventually, those in America, particularly military leaders. That final, devasting shot, the public only sees the legend: "how great it must be to be King" but Lubitsch imprints the human facts on our hearts.

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}*Kind of Gary Cooperish.* > > Now that's a compliment! Or is it? > Of course it is!! > He's a big, lumpy guy but he seems so pleasant. But like Edward Andrews, his pleasantness can come off slimy. I don't know if you know the actor M. Emmet Walsh, but his style reminds me a little of him. > He can seem really nice. He doesn't unsettle me as much as Andrews can. Yes, I do know Walsh from TV appearances mostly, I think. He could easily have played one of those characters in *Phenix City Story*.

> Oh, yeah! I really like James Edwards. He really does have a sincere presence. That's the perfect description of him. > Kind of Gary Cooperish. > > I definitely remember that episode. It's one that plays on you, because there's a nice twist to it. And I just saw Emhardt in a film last night. I always think of Alfred Hitchcock Presents with him. > Hitch seemed to like him, too, he's in six of his shows. He really shines in them. He had a very distinctive voice, too. And yes, "Crackpot" totally had me fooled. It's one of the best.

> He's one of those guys who can smile at you and you feel uneasy. > He looks exactly like some gentlemen from my old home town. I think it's the glasses. Those horn-rimmed glasses he sometimes wore, on men always looked creepy to me even as a child. They weren't too cute on women, either, but on men, ick. > *And later he was in The Manchurian Candidate, wasn't he?* > > Was he one of the brainwashed? > Yes, he was the Corporal who kept having nightmares. He also was the Sergeant in *Men in War*. He always had such a sincere presence. > > *"Don't Interrupt" (1958)* > *"Crackpot" (1957)* > *"The Hidden Thing" (1956)* > *"The Gentleman From America" (1956)* > > Boy, it's been a while since I've watched the show. I only know of "Crackpot" by title. > You remember that one, it featured another actor who could play creepy along the lines of Edward Andrews...Bob Emhardt. Biff and his new bride have a flat tire and Emhardt stops to "help" them. Then he turns up at their hotel, in the next room.

> Yes I have! I forgot he was in that. I was quite surprised to see him playing such an evil man. > I first saw him in the kind of "creepy" roles, so it was the other way around for me. Something about him always kind of gave me an unsettled feeling. > Oh, yeah! I forgot about *The Set-Up*. > And later he was in *The Manchurian Candidate*, wasn't he? > *Biff McGuire (Ellie's boyfriend) is in a few "Alfred Hitchcock Presents".* > > What episode? > "Don't Interrupt" (1958) "Crackpot" (1957) "The Hidden Thing" (1956) "The Gentleman From America" (1956)

> > I really didn't know the performers with the exception of Richard Kiley and John McIntire. Although, I had just seen Edward Andrews in *The Tattered Dress*. > You haven't seen *Send Me No Flowers*, then. > And you say I'm shiftless! > Not shiftless, I just don't enjoy watching brutality. > It's definitely the child scene, but I knew about that before I watched the film thanks to Martin Scorsese's documentary. The other scene I really like is at the very end with the Wards, particularly Helen (Helen Martin). And I just realized she's the elderly lady in the TV show 227! This was his first role. > You mean hers? James Edwards had already done a few movies, starting with *The Set-Up*. Biff McGuire (Ellie's boyfriend) is in a few "Alfred Hitchcock Presents".

> I do agree with that. What I liked was the entire feel of the era, particularly the "regular folk." > Was it ever real. Even the veteran performers were the kind that look like every day folk. Some of the small parts wouldn't surprise me if they'd been real townspeople. > It depends on how it's used. Violence with an emotional impact is what gets me. This film has that in spades. > It really was. I true "cautionary tale". > There is a certain expectancy with western violence, plus it feels like a foreign world. But to see violence in an urban setting makes it feel all the more real. > That's a good point. > I am! I can't believe she had the energy to watch it so late and then to look up all she did. That really tells you how much the film impacted her. > My first instinct was to recoil from all I'd just seen and want to put it behind me. But I admit I was curious and the thought had crossed my mind to "google" a little more...I wanted to know what happened to "Rhett" (still can't get over that name). I'm glad Ro did it for me! What for you was the strongest scene?

> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}*that's putting it mildly. like i told ro, the intro works because it really sows the seed in your mind that what you're watching is the true deal.* > > It really does. But I really struggled with the opening. It was draining me. > I reminded me of *Captive City*, but it was afterward that realized what a great set-up it really was. The movie would not have impacted me nearly as much without it. > I'm going to try and watch that later this week. I'm impressed by your giving *The Phenix City Story* another look. Why? You're so crazy about violent movies. It's funny, I bet I see Matt Dillon kill more people in one of his half-hour western shows than in this whole movie, but it isn't nearly as harrowing. You should be impressed that Rohanka stayed up so late and did all that research.

> You've got that right. *The Big Heat* is more of a dramatic film whereas *The Phenix City Story* has a strong documentary feel to it. > that's putting it mildly. like i told ro, the intro works because it really sows the seed in your mind that what you're watching is the true deal. What a difference between this and *The Student Prince in Old Heidelberg*...I know which I prefer to watch!

> It's basically a gangster film, how the boys from the neighborhood either stay clear of the town's way or they go work for the town. And sometimes you are forced to work in that world because it's all there is for you. > Yes, they provided employment and attracted crowds, tourists, soldiers on leave. > There's no way I could have kept my family in such a town. But that's how they get you. They push you out of your own home through fear. The "*Big Heat*." > It's very similar, though the real-life aspects made this movie harder to sit through.

That's one of the many moments that had me in tears!!! You just knew by some way I can't explain that this moment they were sharing was ephemeral, was not destined to last; it was inextricably tied with the quicksilver of youth and first love. When Lubitsch took Kathi back to that hill, and the tree was bare, and no stars in the sky....boo hooo!!!!