MissGoddess
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Posts posted by MissGoddess
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> You should give it another looksee.
>
I will! I like him and Carole together.
> And if I would have said that, you would have told me I didn't like kids! You're awful!
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Not this time!
> I'm sure I'll find the kid to be an annoying addition.
>
It takes all the fun out.
> I may have to fire that one up, soon.
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I have it on DVD so I should rewatch as well. I do remember Brian Donlevey was excellent. A real brute.
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> *Gunga Din, definitely.*
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> But you said I wouldn't like it! Those two Coop films must be horrible, then. I'm sure you are right.
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Of the three it has the best chance. You'll like Cary and Vic, I think. They're a couple of rascals.
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I like that he can be a rascal. He's basically a mug all dressed up, really. Have you seen *Man of the World* ? It's such an interesting character and performance for Powell.>
A while ago, but I don't remember anything special about his character. I do have the DVD.
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> You make *Another Thin Man* sound funny.
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It's got a lot of silliness in it. It's one example where serious and silly are not mixed well. It's also one with the kid, and I don't like Nick and Nora with a kid. It's too domestic and tame for them.
> So you're saying I'm gonna understand and associate with poor Charlie, eh? I'm sure you're right!
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Ha! Just you wait! "Nature, Mr. Alnutt, is what we are put here to rise above."
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> What?! When do you ever like tragic?! And you give me heck for liking hopelessness!
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This is the kind of noble tragedy I don't think you care for. But this is another movie I haven't seen in a long time.
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> So which of those three films do you think I'd like most?
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*Gunga Din*, definitely.
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> That's a great point. That really does make the films more than just "vehicles." It's not just a studio director shooting the script.
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Right, it's Cukor, Stevens and Capra and the Kanin-Gordons writing.
> Yes, that's what I mean. It seems like the studios only saw him as a second banana, not a major star. He wasn't being pushed. He raised himself to star status.
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Though they gave him pretty big stuff, too, like *The Power and the Glory*. That's a "Citizen Kane" character and very early on. I think they knew what they had in Spence in terms of talent at Fox, but I'm not sure they really had the material. In those days, musicals and Americana with a little history thrown in seemed to be the Fox specialty. MGM for better or worse, could afford to buy Tracy properties like Jekyll and Hyde, the story of Edison, Captains Couragous, etc. Whatever he wanted.
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> From what I've seen of Spence, I definitely agree with that. I have really liked him in the 30s. I like his "mugs" and "average Joes." That's something that appeals to me. He's not a flashy guy. He's an honest sack of potatoes. And what's strange is that I like the champagne of William Powell, too. Even a little more than Spence.
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I'm so excited about Bill in December! I just love him. He's a gent without the slightest trace of snobbery. That's what makes him so ideal as Nick Charles, who's really not a polished guy...he's a former private detective after all, yet Powell makes him so at ease with a lady like Myrna without ever losing his unpretentious manner. And he's always the smartest guy in the room without calling attention to it. I was watching *Another Thin Man* I think it was, the other day on TCM. It's not their best, but the scenes between Powell and Otto Kruger are so hilarious! Bill keeps doing this double take whenever he looks at Kruger which breaks me up! And Kruger behaves kind of like a wacko, so you understand why, ha haaa! No dialogue, just these looks that pass as if Nick is thinking "Is this guy for real?"
> She's superb in *Suddenly, Last Summer*. But I do prefer her youthful and full of girliness. What I'm hoping to like with her in *The African Queen* is her fight.
>
Poor Bogie!
> I haven't seen any of those classics. I'm a big Indy fan, though. Which do you like more, *Gunga Din* or Coop's films, *Beau Geste* and *The Lives of a Bengal Lancer* ?
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That's really hard to say! however, the contest for me is between Bea and *Gunga Din*, I don't care much for Bengal. I guess I'd prefer *Beau Geste,* I love Gary, and I find it more tragic.
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> I certainly agree. So are the Tracy & Hepburn films "vehicles"?
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Maybe in concept, but the people on board were the best (writers, directors) which made them a little above that.
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One of my favorite Kate moments was this:>
I like that one, too.
> He seems to be self-made since he was basically given "buddy" roles and "mugs" in the 30s.
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What do you mean "self made"? You mean not a studio creation? Absolutely. He was a full-fledged actor right from *Up the River*. There's no real development except in the nature of the roles, but for himself, he had it all from the beginning. Amazing. Just look at Bogie in the same film, he's so green! He hasn't found himself as an actor, yet. Tracy was unique. Special. I can't say good enough things about him as a performer. No one impresses me as much.
> Something tells me that I will. That's not to say I'm not going to like the older Kate, though.
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You will find her vulnerability very appealing, but she isn't going to be as desirable because she is past the bloom of youth in those movies. I don't know how you'll react to that. Well, you saw her in *Suddenly Last Summer*.
> Absolutely. But there are masterpieces that not everyone likes. With *Shane*, three of us listed it as our favorite for Stevens. I'm sure Movieman would do the same. Something tells me that wouldn't be CineMaven's favorite, though. We need those lists!
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Good point, it's a crowd pleaser. I am betting CineMaven puts *A Place in the Sun* at the top.
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> Actually, I believe I'd like *Gunga Din*. It's been called an early version of Indiana Jones. That would be great with me.
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I do consider it the template for all "buddy" action-adventure pictures to come. There is some of *Indiana Jones*, though I see more *King Solomon's Mines*, John Wayne's *Legend of the Lost* and other 50s adventure movies in that.
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> That's how I feel about a lot of Gable and Coop's films. Gable is almost always entertaining, so much so that he's usually better than the films.
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I feel that way about a lot of the old stars, actually. They had so much personality, and some, like him and Coop, were put in tons of "vehicles". Someone like Tracy got offered the "acting" stuff, the real meat. They say Gable was jealous of that, even though they were friendly. But I'm sure if Gable had it in him they would have given him the heavier stuff, too, but he was insecure about risk taking. Tracy wasn't. Like Kate said, he was unsure in life, but not at all about acting.
> Because it seems like the feeling is with Tracy & Hepburn is that they are terrific to watch but their films don't match them. That reminded me of Gable and Coop.
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Oh, yes! Yes, I definitely think their best work was apart, though there are moments in all their films of course. I like in *Woman of the Year* the looks Kate gives Spence when they first meet. That moment in the office when he catches her pulling at her stocking, that is a really "movie movie" moment. Special.
I also love Kate's hair in this movie. This and *The Philadelphia Story* are her at her loveliest, I think. Her hair is so soft, it softens her angular features yet it's a sophisticated style, which suits her persona.
> I find Spencer Tracy to be one of the warmest of actors. You always get the feeling he's putting his arm around you, giving you a pat on the back. Very honest.
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Yes, and he could play a real con-man, too yet you always got the feeling inside he was basically a good guy even if he fought against it.
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> And Tracy's change is mostly done through acting. It's the best performance I have seen from him, and that's saying a heckuva lot, because I like quite a few of his performances.
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It's fascinating, a complete work with a whole range of stuff going on.
> And those are the films I've yet to see of hers. I'm curious to find out if I prefer the young, crazy comediene or the older, dramatic actress. I really like her when she's young and crazy.
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You may always prefer that Kate.
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> So three of us have *Shane* as our favorite Stevens film. We both like *Giant* and *A Place in the Sun* but Jackie does not, yet Jackie and I like *The More the Merrier* and *The Talk of the Town* more. Very interesting! What's with me liking the comedies more than you?!
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*Shane* is a masterpiece, really, at least in the western genre.
> *Gunga Din* and *Swing Time* are probably the biggest Stevens films I've yet to see.
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I can't see you liking either. GD is one of the best action movies I've ever seen, though it's not a genre I'm big on. I love Vic in it, old Vic and his darling elephant.
It's fun seeing Cary being really physical and crazy, too. -
Yes, the *Sgt. Rutledge* team (Woody, Juano and Rafer) reunited in Africa. It was on last week during a tribute to Angie.
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Roger doesn't show up until like 45 minutes into the movie, then he disappears again. It's another of his "playboy" types. But I love when he teases Angie/Rachel: "It's so easy to get a rise out of you."
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> {quote:title=JackFavell wrote:}{quote}I like Albert Finney, but of course, he has more movies since he's still going strong nowadays.
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> I actually like Finney better the older he gets.
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He may be an example of what you said about which movies you see first. My first exposure was *Two for the Road* and one of those British kitchen sink dramas; in both he plays really arrogant guys and it put me off!
> Maybe Ill see if I can find Rachel Cade again. I don't know if I ever found out how it ends.
In that one, the doctor is Roger Moore, and like Peter Finch he is involved with a religious girl in two movies, the other for him being *The Miracle* (with Carroll Baker).
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It does make a difference what you're exposed to first, ha. I saw him to begin with in rather leading man type parts, if somewhat tortured. I love his voice. He always reminds me of Albert Finney but I prefer Finch for some reason.
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You have the right idea, he was a surgeon in *The Nun's Story,* and a district officer in Africa to Angie Dickinson's nurse/missionary in *The Sins of Rachel Cade* (I always compare the two movies myself).
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Does anyone else think *Peter Finch* might have made a good "Mr Rochester" in Jane Eyre? It's rolling around in my empty head this morning. Jackie, you and Bronxie are the Brit Experts...
But perhaps he lacked enough humor....Mr. Rochester was always making sarcastic comments.
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> Both tend to be in a lot of films where their star power is the "story." Lots of "crowd pleasers." Nothing wrong with that, it's just that those kind of films rarely rate highly with me.
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Definitely. when they get off that carousel, they become more interesting, especially when they were older. (How did we get on the subject of Gable and Coop? Not that it's a bad turn in the conversation.)
> I was ranking his performances, not his characters or films. I tend to value serious performances more. What's great about Tracy is that his serious performances tend to feature some comedy.
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I like watching him interact with women, best. He's then a combination of sure and unsure, smart and stumped. Lovely. And yes, one of the very, very few dramatically powerful actors who could be very funny.
> *The Last Hurrah* is a powerful performance by Spence. He does it all, in that one. Lots of great emotion. I ranked *Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde* at the top because the character he plays is so very different to all of his other characters. He's crazy and cruel!
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I love Jekyll and Hyde, love the conflict with himself, the psychology and how dramatic the shift is from one to the other making outward changes superfluous.
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> Again, I'm basing it on performance. I definitely love "Linda Seton." She's my second favorite Kate character. But in terms of performance, it's rather restrained for Kate. I love her entire vibe in *The Philadelphia Story*, *Bringing Up Baby*, and *Woman of the Year*. She's on fire in those films. Those are the films I'd suggest to someone if they wanted to see Kate.
>
She is on all gears but it gets interesting when the same woman takes on roles as in African Queen, The Rainmaker and Summertime. So different. I'd recommend those as well, especially Queen and Summertime. Those are deeper Hepburn performances than the others you mention.
> You snubbed two Pappy films! What's wrong with you?!
>
I'm being honest.
Favorite Stevens:
1. Shane
2. Giant
3. Penny Serenade
4. Swing Time
5. A Place in the Sun
6. Alice Adams
7. Gunga Din
8. Woman of the Year
9. The More the Merrier
10. Vivacious Lady
Edited by: MissGoddess on Oct 7, 2011 10:56 AM
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> I see! So this is an example of you liking the stars more so than the films. I've noticed that with some stars. The films aren't the greatest but they are enjoyable to watch. Clark Gable is like that with me. Even Gary Cooper.
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Yes, there are some movies in the 1940 done by Gable and Gary that are not among my favorites. I prefer both men in the 1930s and 1950s (though there are exceptions).
> My favorite performances by Spence would be:
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> 1. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde
> 2. The Last Hurrah
> 3. Inherit the Wind
> 4. Bad Day at Black Rock
> 5. Fury
> 6. Test Pilot
> 7. Whipsaw
> 8. Man's Castle
> 9. Cass Timberlane
> 10. Woman of the Year
> 11. Up the River
> 12. San Francisco
> 13. Libeled Lady
> 14. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner
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Definitnely you like him super serious the most. So do I, for the most part. I'm surprised to see *The Last Hurrah* so high. I wonder what you'll think of *People vs. O'Hara* and *Edward, My Son*.
> For Kate:
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> 1. The Philadelphia Story
> 2. Bringing Up Baby
> 3. Woman of the Year
> 4. Mary of Scotland
> 5. Suddenly, Last Summer
> 6. Quality Street
> 7. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner
> 8. Alice Adams
> 9. Stage Door
> 10. Holiday
>
I'm astonished *Holiday* finished last...is that because you think of it as Cary's picture? I love the movie and her character. Poor Mary didn't evenmake my list, did it?
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> You seem to be very lukewarm with their films.
>
I have mixed emotions about them.
> *Keeper of the Flame* is weird?
It is weird. Kate was married to some sort of "leader" who has an almost cultish aura about him and his mysterious death. Spence is a journalist I think, who's trying to get to the truth they're trying to hide.
I made two separate lists because I enjoy more of the work they did apart from each other.
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*Favorite Performances*
KATHARINE HEPBURN
1. Holiday
2. Summertime
3. Suddenly, Last Summer
4. The Philadelphia Story
5. Guess Who's Coming To Dinner?
6. Alice Adams
7. Stage Door
8. Bringing Up Baby
9. The African Queen
10. Rooster Cogburn
11. Sea of Grass
12. Undercurrent
13. The Glass Menagerie
14. Morning Glory
15. On Golden Pond
16. The Rainmaker
TRACY
1. Fury
2. Cass Timberlaine
3. Mannequin
4. Man's Castle
5. The People Against O'Hara
6. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde
7. They Gave Him a Gun
8. Woman of the Year
9. Adam's Rib
10. Bad Day at Black Rock
11. Whipsaw
12. Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?
13. The Last Hurrah
14. Dante's Inferno
15. Libeled Lady
16. Plymouth Adventure
17. Test Pilot
18. Captain's Courageous
19. I Take This Woman
20. The Seventh Cross
21. Edison, The Man
22. RiffRaff
23. Judgement at Nuremberg
24. Inherit the Wind
(The last two on Tracy's list I have not seen in years, and frankly he seemed like the same character in both so that's the best I could do without ignoring them entirely). I did ignore a few from both stars that I just didn't care much for like *Malaya*, *The Old Man and the Sea*, *The Corn is Green*, *Lion in Winter* and *A Guy Named Joe*, plus there are many he did at Fox in the early 30s that I've never seen. Sufice it to say, I have never disliked Tracy in anything.
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Ha! I'm with you; chocolate always trumps anything else for me.
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Ro...don't feel rushed about this conversation as I still haven't gotten my copy of *Big Jake* to rewatch, and won't do until next week at the earliest. I thought I had it in my collection, I could have sworn I recorded it when it was on TCM, but I don't so it's waiting at Netflix soon as I finish a couple of other discs first.
So this discussion hopefully can be fanned back to life.
And save me a loaf of pumpkin bread...I LOVE, LOVE pumpkin bread. It's the only thing I actually like that's made of Pumpkin.
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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}Let's see...
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> 1. Tom Doniphon
> 2. Rip Darrow
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Nooooooooooo!!
That reminds me, Barbara Stanwyck made a pretty good villainness in *The Violent Men*.
> 1. Ben Wade (Glenn Ford in *3:10 to Yuma* )
> 2. Woman (Millie Perkins in *The Shooting* )
> 3. Ben Vandergroat (Robert Ryan in *The Naked Spur* )
> 4. Liberty Valance (Lee Marvin in *The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance* )
> 5. Billy Spear (Jack Nicholson in *The Shooting* )
> 6. Frank Usher (Richard Boone in *The Tall T* )
> 7. Cicero Grimes (Richard Boone in *Hombre* )
> 8. Frank (Henry Fonda in *Once Upon a Time in the West* )
> 9. Jack Bruhn (Burl Ives in *Day of the Outlaw* )
> 10. Gannon (John McIntire in *The Far Country* )
> 11. Old Man Clanton (Walter Brennan in *My Darling Clementine* )
> 12. Waco Johnnie Dean (Dan Duryea in *Winchester '73* )
> 13. Ramon Rojo (Gian Maria Volonte in *A Fistful of Dollars* )
> 14. Bob Larkin (Henry Fonda in *Firecreek* )
> 15. Tevis (Jack Elam in *The Gunfighter* )
> 16. Judge Roy Bean (Walter Brennan in *The Westerner* )
> 17. El Indio (Gian Maria Volonte in *For a Few Dollars More* )
> 18. Bill Masters (Lee Marvin in *Seven Men from Now* )
> 19. Whitey Harbin (Dan Duryea in *Night Passage* )
> 20. Bob Amory (Ben Johnson in *One-Eyed Jacks* )
> 21. **** (Henry Silva in *The Tall T* )
> 22. Claude (John Dehner in *Man of the West* )
> 23. Sheriff Dad Longworth (Karl Malden in *One-Eyed Jacks* )
> 24. Billy Keplinger (Steve Cochran in *The Deadly Companions* )
> 25. Jack Wilson (Jack Palance in *Shane* )
>
THat's a great list! And I can't believe some of the ones I forgot...jack elam, ben, judge roy bean, as well as some that you kind of liked in spite of their wickedness (like fonda in firecreek...)
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Oooh, those are some great ones. I still haven't seen *Unforgiven* which is unforgiveable. I do want to get to it, and soon. It's also been so long I didn't even remember Steiger was in *Jubal*. That's one actor I never associate with westerns, lol.
I bet I've seen *No Name on the Bullet* but I don't remember it. Has it been on Encore? Is that the one where Audie gets control of a ranch and starts become power mad? And is Terry Moore his girlfriend?
"Ben Wade" is a really good one. A very charismatic villain.
Mine:
1. Liberty Valance
2. Jack Wilson in Shane
3. Pa Clanton in My Darling Clementine
4. Frank in Once Upon a Time in the West
5. Frank in The Tall T
6. Lee Marvin in Seven Men From Now
7. Ben Wade in 3:10 to Yuma
8. Bruce Dern in The Cowboys
9. Chuck Connors in The Big Country
10. Richard Boone in Hombre
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The movie gives us a sampling of the kind "conversation" **** and Billy were capable of, so I can't blame Frank for feeling that way, ha! I often wonder about Frank's past, who and what he was. He's kind of like Doc Holliday, someone who suggest education and upbringing that went wrong somewhere.
So who are your favorite western villains, moviemanofthewest?
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> {quote:title=movieman1957 wrote:}{quote}Frank knows he is running with those well beneath him. He can see himself in some fashion as Pat.
Isn't it almost as if he's anxious to prolong his time with Pat as much as possible. He's starved to talk to someone intelligent, someone he can respect. A very interesting element to throw into a hero/villain conflict.
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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}Who am I? Dracula?
Dr Mabuse.
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Only one western villain here, but he's a good one. Frank, you make several cameo appearances!
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> *Go see Barbra, maybe she has one for you.
* >
> Who?!
One of my favorite Kate moments was this:
The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread
in Your Favorites
Posted
> Terrific! Carole is playing it straight, but Powell is Powell. There's some real emotion with him, too.
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I remember she wasn't playing for comedy this time.
> Then I'll add it to the next batch of films I'm gonna watch.
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Good, I look forward to your impressions of it.
> Cary is already a great favorite of mine and Vic continues to climb my favorites list. He's been a major revelation for me. He's so darn good in the 30s.
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This is a showy role for him, fits him like a glove.
> I've heard good things about *Gunga Din*. I don't have it on DVD, though.
>
No rush on that one. *Pursued* is better! Mitchum.