MissGoddess
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Posts posted by MissGoddess
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I have a theory. you like your harry fabian more than sydney falco because...harry is a blonde.
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i just want to say it sounds like a certain Alice has a terrific and sensitive mom.
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Look at you! That was wonderful. That was a good moment because it validated the mother's berating the father. The thing is, Alice really didn't need to change anything. She was being led to believe she needed to. But it was untrue. You women love to believe we men see some fancy girl and think she's great and that a plain girl won't do a thing for us. Not even close. Women create their own monsters. But they want to.
I'm not so sure. Boys love the vivacious, bubbly (and consequently, "popular") girls quite often. And as Jackie pointed out, in the book, the boy does not come back. Reinforcing that the code was strict. "You don't have? Then you stay on your own side of the tracks."
I"m afraid men are much more like this today, than even then. College educated men, that is. Sadly, the more educated they become, the more status conscious they become as well. Women have to "measure up" and be "worthy" of them, whereas it used to be the other way around. It's gone from one extreme to another, and girls like "Alice" still fall through the cracks.
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I don't disagree with anything you said, Fordy Guns. Mr. Adams did sit on his rear too much. So you've all helped me to see that. He should have taken more pride in himself and this would have helped him take more pride in his own home. You were all right to point out he needed to stand up to his wife more instead of looking to hide from her. I think he did that because he knew she was more right than wrong with her criticisms of him.
And you are right about his kissing his boss' rear too much. But I believe he was afraid to rock the boat. He was a meek man. There's no getting around that.
Alright. To be fair I admire that he was rather a pure soul, I do not believe he was aware of ANY of the effects of his choices and attitudes. And his meekness about life in general was one of his virtues, it's the blind adoration of the boss that was misplaced and the lack of interest in his home. The saddest moment to me in the whole movie sums up his relationship to reality and his relationship with his daughter:
"Alice, you don't care about going to parties and all that do you? Is it so important?"
And all Alice could do is run and cry. He probably saw Alice as still a little girl who didn't need finery and friends, and who looked up to him as her hero. But she was becoming a woman and it wasn't really fair to assume she was so unlike most other girls as to not want certain things to be a certain way. If he'd taken just a little more pride as you say, she might have felt more confident herself and less dependent on the idea of being popular. But her father was furtive and her mother was fretful...how do you get to be confident in an ambience like that (unless you're like her brother who just gets the heck out of the house as much he can and small blame to him).
So it's not about blaming Mr. Adams, I see it as Kathy said, they all had weaknesses and unfortunately they were the kind of weaknesses that society in small and big towns alike prey on. The snobs will look down their noses, the boss will patronize and exploit his employees, the mothers will nag and the fathers will hide. It's a darned heavy movie to depict all that, if you ask me. I think Stevens did a sensational job.
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Okay, to harp a little more on Mr. Adams.
MrGrimes...you say Mr Adams was right and things were just fine as they were, making Mrs Adams all wrong. But what about what I mentioned, how the house they lived in was practically falling down around their ears? It looked like a dilapidated shack and all it needed was attention...the kind of attention the men of the house were supposed to take care of or hire out. Paint, repairs, lawn care...all of that looks like it hasn't been done to the place since it was built. Why in heck did he let it go so long? I understand he was sick for some time, but this has been going on longer. So why didn't he whip that son of his into taking up some of that slack? I point all this out to show how he just didn't care about even the responsibiities that were his own. If he didn't want to be bothered as you say, and just put his nose in the paper when he got home, he needed to give his wife enough money to hire someone to care for the place. Otherwise, don't get married, buy a house and have kids if you can't afford to maintain a decent home. That place was falling apart, it was not satisfactory for anyone but a pig.
And another thing, probably the most annoying quality about Mr. Adams is his sycophantic behavior about his employer. It was always "Mr So-and-So this" and "Mr So-and-So that", about a man who actually owed him something his by rights (that invention or formula). Adams wouldn't make a move in life without thinking if Mr So-and-So would approve. He acted like the man was a little tin god. I found it even more infuriating than anything else. Humility is one thing, and laudable, but this wasn't about that, this was putting his boss ahead of everything at home.
I bring these things up to point out what the women of the house had to live with for years and years. He wasn't a "regular Joe". Regular Joe's do a much better job at fulfilling their responsibilities...and that has nothing to do with trying to live beyond their means.
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Very well put, Jackie. I agree and I further believe both P&P and AA are critiques of the social structures that create these scenarios. They are not just critiques of the individuals, but something bigger.
Today, Austen might critique the "trading up" mentality to marriage...it's still the same vanity and selfishness at work in societies that value status and materialism over character and values.
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Jackie,
You asked about what happened to Tom Neal. Talk about a loaded
question. His is one of the most tragic stories ever to come out of
Hollywood. His real life makes *Detour* seem a walk in the park.
Here's the facts, as they appear at Wikipedia:
Born in Evanston, Illinois, Thomas "Tom" Neal debuted on Broadway
in 1935. In 1938 he first appeared in film in Out West with the Hardys,
part of the Mickey Rooney "Hardy family" movie series. That same
year, he received a law degree from Harvard University. While in
college at Northwestern and Harvard Universities, Neal was a stand-
out on the schools' boxing teams. He compiled a 44-3 (41 knockouts)
ring record.
So far, so good. Very promising, in fact.
Neal appeared in many low budget B-movies in the 1940s/1950s. In
1941 he starred with Frances Gifford in the Republic Pictures 15
episode serial, *Jungle Girl*. Perhaps his most memorable role was
that of Al Roberts in the classic film noir *Detour* alongside Ann
Savage. They went on to make five movies together. (I didn't know
they made more movies together, I wonder how they are.)
Now here is where fate sticks its foot out:
In 1951, he fought aristocratic actor Franchot Tone over their mutual
girlfriend, actress Barbara Payton. Neal inflicted upon Tone a
smashed cheekbone, a broken nose and a brain concussion. After the
incident, Tone and Payton married, and Neal had a difficult time
finding work. He ended up supporting himself landscaping and
gardening. Payton left Tone after only seven weeks and returned to
the troubled Neal. Their relationship lasted four years.
Neal remarried almost immediately and in 1957 fathered a son, Tom
Neal, Jr. His wife died the following year from cancer. In 1961, Neal
married for the third time, to Gale Bennett. Four years later, he shot her
in the back of the head with a .45-caliber gun, killing her instantly. He
was arrested and, although prosecutors sought the death penalty, he
was convicted of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to ten
years in prison, of which he served six years. On December 7, 1971,
he was released on parole.
Less than a year later, Neal died of heart failure in North Hollywood,
California at the age of 58 on August 7, 1972. He was cremated, and
his ashes stored in the vault at the Chapel of the Pines Crematory in
Los Angeles. His aforementioned son, appeared in one film: playing
the role of Al Roberts in a 1992 independent remake of *Detour*.
(Talk about tempting "fate")
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*Jack Carson and Eugene Pallette were funny. I did laugh at them. I couldn't get into Henry Fonda and I'm such a Fonda fan, too. The film was a mix of comedy and drama and I felt it wasn't a pleasing mix.*
I can't disagree. I just thought the whole egghead angle would be up your alley.
*When was the last time a movie hit your top 100? My goodness.*
*The most recent are:*
*84. Sidewalks of London*
*87. Murder by Contract*
*55. The Naked Kiss*
*100. Secret Beyond the Door...*
*88. Reign of Terror*
*34. Kiss Me Deadly*
*90. Devil's Doorway*
Five out of seven are noirs! Two kisses, two doors.
*Gee, I better watch it again, soon. I remember the ending being very sad but I'm fuzzy on the details.*
*It's on TCM this Sunday at 10:45 AM.*
Thanks. I hope I'll be awake for it.
*I liked most of the performances and the tough message. I thought Eleanor Parker was great. She looked good, too. I really liked Agnes Moorehead, Betty Garde, and Ellen Corby. Hope Emerson was exceptional, of course. But in terms of a story, it's just not one I could grab onto.*
The story was the problem? Why? I thought it was just that it was an all-female picture that bothered you.
*I agree about Stone, I do not agree about her Mom though I do sympathize with some of her complaints.*
*You would be all over your husband! "Why don't you make some real money?!"*
I'm with Ro on this. The husband was a bit of a lay about. His whining got on my nerves. The mother was wrong at the bottom of it all because as you say, all her focus was on material things. But I don't see the father as a "regular Joe". Most "regular Joes" worked a lot harder than he did and had a little more self-respect. You take pride in your family and your home, not let it fall down around your ears like he did.
By the way, I liked the brother, too. He was hilarious the way he kept making fun of his sister's airs.
*Ain't that the truth. What I laughed at the most was when Rock was playing dumb about not being around women. And I loved his suit.*
By the time he'd made this movie, Hudson really had learned comic timing. He's very funny and I agree he's very funny in *Send Me No Flowers*, too. You should watch it, Hudson's hypochonriac is hilarious. "Doc...I have a pain every time I press here." "Then don't press there." Ha!
Edited by: MissGoddess on Aug 2, 2011 8:31 PM
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ro, not to beat a dead "horse" (ha) but *the iron horse* is rather on the "dry" side for me, too. It's main draw is the details of a period in history that the books usually only assign a footnote to (namely the immigrants' hard work and contributions) and the way Ford pulls many different threads together by the end. i think critics have made it seem more important because of its place in the director's career: it put him on the map as a serious filmaker, and not just a good studio workman. that's not really enough to satisfy me or i imagine most moviegoers...though I did see this movie in the theater at Lincoln Center and i did enjoy it more that way.
*3 bad men* is much more enjoyable and richly rewarding in an emotional and entertainment sense, but critics seldom rate it as highly.
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*I was disappointed in The Male Animal because I didn't find the humor to be that funny. I liked the message of the film, of course. I'd say Jack Carson is the star of the show. He was terrific.*
That is my overall feeling about it, I just thought YOU would react differently. It's not really my kind of comedy, but I do find it interesting and there are some funny lines. Jack is very good.
I absolutely loved this film! It actually made my top 100 of all-time (#84). I was blown away by the emotional turns. Why did I love it? Charles Laughton's "Charlie." I just love the entire set-up. He's a 39-year-old man who has found his "star." But it turns out, she's not his star. The ending is very powerful. I was in tears.
When was the last time a movie hit your top 100? My goodness. Gee, I better watch it again, soon. I remember the ending being very sad but I'm fuzzy on the details.
*For the most part, yes. I'm not that big on prison films, as a rule.*
You didn't like/appreciate anything about it? I thought it was really harrowing and I thought Eleanor did a smashing job, considering she's such a delicate beauty and usually played such ladylike characters.
Yes, I felt like Fred. Alice Adams feels like a "Jane Austen" flick. The best thing about the film for me was Fred Stone, who played Alice's father. He was sensational. And Alice's mom was you!
I agree about Stone, I do not agree about her Mom though I do sympathize with some of her complaints.
Dolores was playing you! I was mostly disappointed in Silver Lode because I had high expectations with it. But since I like this kind of story and I love seeing Dan Duryea putting on a show, I ended up still liking it. I like the twist at the end.
I thought everyone in it was great, it's just the way it was directed left me disappointed.
Tony Randall is very good in Lover Come Back. I just didn't find much of the film to be funny. I really didn't like the ending. I've seen parts of Send Me No Flowers and I thought that was hilarious. I'm gonna have to watch that one. The funniest part of the film for me was the taxi (?) ride.
I always say, people really are individualistic when it comes to what makes them laugh.
It's pretty doggone interesting. It's rather similar to Fort Apache.
Yes, I thought so, too.
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Oh and just to side step back to Hitch...what does your "litmus" say about the fact that I'm really a huge fan of both *The Wrong Man* and I, Confess? In fact, I think I, Confess is my favorite Clift performance after *Suddenly, Last Summer*. *The Wrong Man* fills me with fascination and horror at how easily someone innocent can fall into the machinery of the system and get ground up. It's a story that's been done a lot since, but this version holds a grim power over me.
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> {quote:title=FrankGrimes wrote:}{quote}I'm very impressed, Miss Gun For Hire! You did great!
>
> 1. Sidewalks of London (8)
> 2. Murder by Contract (1)
> 3. This Land is Mine (4)
> 4. Silver Lode (5)
> 5. The Road to Glory (9)
> 6. Broken Arrow (3)
> 7. The Iron Horse (11)
> 8. The Male Animal (2)
> 9. Lover Come Back (7)
> 10. Alice Adams (6)
> 11. Caged (10)Great?!
>
I got most of them totally backwards! I can't BELIEVE you liked The Iron Horse AT ALL let alone more than *The Male Animal* (a comedy I really thought you'd like...Henry Fonda's character even talks like you). And I'm staggered you like Vivvy's little "busker" the best...and pleased! But is it for her or because of Laughton's complicated desperation and pathos?
I supposed *Alice* and *Caged* were just too "female" for you to take. I can understand. *Alice Adams* is the ultimate coming-of-age-in-a-small-town story for girls. Any girl who's wanted to fit in with the "in" crowd and who has ever felt ashamed of her own home/family can totally identify. With guys...well, I think you probably reacted like Fred MacMurray does.
I've got *Murder by Contract* in my "queue" at Netflix, so I have no idea whether I'll like it. Reading the synopsis is what made me think it was one you'd like.
I look forward to you and Jackie talking about *This Land is Mine*. She must be beaming that you rate it so highly.
I'm afraid I was baffled and disappointed by *Silver Lode*. I wanted to like it SO much. Maybe my expectations were too high. I loved everyone involved, I just felt let down. Except that girl from Howard Hawks' movie *To Have and Have Not*...Dolores Moran I think is her name? I liked her character a lot. She had the best lines. Dolores to Dan Duryea: "We did that {bolted the trap door} to keep the rats out. Guess it didn't work."
And poo on you for not liking my favorite of the Day/Hudson comedies. Tony Randall makes me scream he's so funny! I don't know why I don't list him among my favorite comedic actors all the time...I forget about him yet he's given me more huge laughs than most.
So you liked *The Road to Glory* a little better than I thought you would, I'm glad. A fellow member of the SSO pointed out that it's a remake of a French film that he felt was much superior. Hawks kind of molded the story to suit his usual interests (group dynamics, professionalism, etc) but what bowls me over is the tragedy of it. It's so un-Hawksie. Or I should say, he would generally cushion tragedy in his later films with lots of other things.
Edited by: MissGoddess on Aug 1, 2011 9:08 PM
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6. Alice Adams
3. Broken Arrow
10. Caged
11. The Iron Horse
7. Lover Come Back
2. The Male Animal
1. Murder by Contract
9. The Road to Glory
8. Sidewalks of London
5. Silver Lode
4. This Land is Mine
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Ro! I just saw your post...I hope you got to watch SJ. Fox Movie Channel used to air it alot and I think I have it on tape somewhere, but I'm not sure if I have it on DVD-R.
Jackie---I haven't watched SSS in a while...I think Lancaster is amazing as the Winchellesque weirdo. I think Martin Milner is cute. As for Sydney, could it be because it's such a great performance? I think it's just about got to be Tony Curtis' zenith as an actor.
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Re: *North by Northwest*, I feel it's definitely a "movie movie", and very nearly perfect in that regard. It's been broadcast a lot on TCM so I don't seek it out much right now. I think it would be fun to see at a theater with friends, though. One thing I can never tire of: I think it contains just about the most exciting music score of any movie.
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I find it hard to choose between them...or their movies. Though *Vertigo* is to me the best of the best, I guess I prefer Cary Grant overall as a Hitchcock lead. He possesses an ambivalence that I think is perfectly "in tune, shall we say" with the master. I will add that Grant "got" Hitch's humor and knew how to put it across perfectly as no other.
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Thanks, Lynn. Sad end for a great picture pioneer.
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Wouldbestar....I think I did notice Feathers' "unmentionables" peeking out. Maybe Hawks thought it lent a touch of messy realism?
I'm watching Allan Dwan's *Silver Lode* (1958) right now. Oh my. I believe lzcutter is the expert on Dwan around here and I've forgotten what I read about him during in these years....I'm guessing this one of his last films. What happened??
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Golly, Jackie, the things you notice make me think I hardly paid attention to the movie! Beau and Jeff Bridges??? How on earth did you spot them?? Are they Kathleen Freeman's kids? And like T-Mave, I'm going to have to look up civet. Somehow, I can visualize exactly what you mean, the word sounds like what it means.
Excellent post. I'm thrilled you seemed to like it fairly well. This is the movie that really made me admire Jane Greer all the more. I loved especially how you covered Jane's torrent of emotions and desires in the "coat" scene. I thought it was going another way, too...she had more willpower than I would have credited. I don't even remember the rest of the wardrobe...I'll have to pay more attention next time. Wasn't there a somewhat similar "coat" scene in the Ginger Rogers movie, I'll Be Seeing You? Yet another parolee movie. Wow, what was up with that in the 1940s and all these women on parole??? I recommend this movie, too, by the way, if you ladies haven't seen it. Joseph Cotten is excellent and it's one of my favorite Ginger Rogers dramas. It's on YouTube, but I warn you, the print is dreadful.
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*Valli's performance is what keeps me coming back to THE PARADINE CASE. Gregory Peck is hopeless, lol. His character's obsession with her reminds me more of REBECCA than VERTIGO.*
*Peck is "The Girl" (Joan Fontaine) fascinated with the glamorous, mysterious first wife.*
That is really interesting, Bronxie...I never would have made that connection to *Rebecca*...I actually want to watch *The Pardine Case* again for this reason, and I never thought I'd want to see it again...it's one of the few Hitch movies I've never been able to get into.
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Noooo, no, no, that is praise overmuch, Tall T. I know well enough I'm just doing well to keep up with the rest of you, I can't get nearer than that. But thank you, praise from a real writer is praise indeed.
I'm working on an idea for another list, soon. Much lighter than the "heavies". -
she looks like a cross between Carroll Baker and a blonde Jane Russell. I think it's the second "Bad Girls of Noir" that contains two or three of Cleo's movies. The disc that had *One Girl's Confession* also had a Janis Carter noir.
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"Like a kid in a grown-up body" - That was perfect.
I agree the western setting hilights the good vs evil in man. As you all said, it's a setting that's "elemental" to begin with. Morality tales, tragedies...these find a natural home out there. Nature has a way of cutting to the chase, while urban environments muck everything up. Just compare the first part of *On Dangerous Ground* with the second. Jim Wilson's all mixed up in town, when he comes out to the country, all his demons are confronted and exorcised.
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*Of COURSE he is the "smoothest".. ha. It's JAMES MASON, after all.*
*His voice is SO smooth.. he is the only bad guy I can think of in a movie who could tell the hero or heroine that he's about to cause them great bodily harm in the world's worst way... and then try to MURDER them.. ha.. and meanwhile.. little kittens everywhere (in the homes of people watching the movie) would probably all start to purr. ha.*
That was terrific, Ro, hilarious! And true. His delivery is so smooth he could insult you to your face and still make you feel complimented.
The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread
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It's the truth! But you deserve more than a Calgon...maybe a day at a spa with massages and all the goodies.