cigarjoe

Of Dahl's three early Neo Noirs I like them in this order The Last Seduction, Kill Me Again, and then Red Rock West, followed by the half hour Tomorrow I Die, and You Kill Me.

Cool have to visit next time I'm in L.A.

I was into Westerns for the most part rather than spy shows so The Wild Wild West was a good genre mash up of the two.

R.I.P.

Did you also catch it when it first aired?

I used to watch this.

I don't know I just took a wild a$$ guess

Didn't you think the sheriff in Pop 1080 was awfully similar in ways to Lou Ford?

No problem, the lists are there as a reference for all to check out when ever you want to. Though remember they are a work in progress and I'll add more as I find them. You never heard of them because they are never shown anywhere they are under the Noir-dar screen. Somebody's gotta take a bullet for the rest of you.

That's exactly right. I call it "tuning." Whether or not a film "tips" noir for you is going to depend on the accumulation of our individual life experiences.. What "tunes" noir for me isn't going to necessarily "tune" noir for you. All we can do is share our lists of films to sample.

PS Also missing are more recent reviews... so these should also be included The Moving Finger (1963) Hardcore (1979) Lovelace (2013)

I would I just haven't gotten around to reviewing them and putting them on the list. It's a work in progress. Like when I asked you about Pacino's Cruising (1980) it sounds from the reviews I've glanced at as another candidate for a Neo Noir. I'm just finishing up a review of Looking For Mr. Goodbar (1977) so it will be on the list also. Anyway for the 2000's I have.... 2000s Requiem For A Dream (2000) The Man Who Wasn’t There (2001) Mulholland Drive (2001) Auto Focus (2002) The Badge (2002) Sin City (2005) Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005) Cidade Baixa (Lower City) (2005) The Notorius Betty Page (2005) The Black Dahlia (2006) 36 Quai des Orfèvres (2006) Journey to the End of the Night (2006) Before The Devil Knows You're Dead (2007) No Country For Old Men (2007) The Lookout (2007) Honeydripper (2007) Across The Hall (2009) Dark Country (2009) The Missing Person (2009) The Killer Inside Me (2010) Hotel Noir (2012) The Iceman (2012) Sin City: A Dame To Kill For (2014) Cop Car (2015) Too Late (2015) The American Side (2016) Hell or High Water (2016) Nocturnal Animals (2016) Frank & Lola (2016)

Your right it doesn't, it has to have the dark story or subject matter to match, and the story doesn't always have to involve crooks, detectives, grifters, bad girls, thievery, murder and mayhem. "Charles O’Brien who researched the use of “film noir” before the war in Film Noir In France: Before The Liberation documents how that term was used in the newspapers and magazines of Paris during the 1930s. “Far from a manifestation of critical detachment,” O’Brien writes, “references to film noir during the [pre-war years] often entailed denunciations of the moral condition of the cinema in France. Although critics during the late 1930s discussed film noir in terms of major developments in film history – tracing it to antecedents in German Expressionism and to French films such as ‘Sous les toits de Paris’ [Rene Clair’s ‘Under The Roofs of Paris’ 1930] – they typically attributed to film noir cultural connotations that were unambiguously negative.” There are nine film noirs identified in O’Briens essay: Pierre Chenal’s “Crime and Punishment” (1935), Jean Renoir’s “The Lower Depths” (Les Bas-fonds) (1936), Julien Duvivier’s “Pépé le Moko” (1937), Jeff Musso’s “The Puritan” (1938), Marcel Carné’s “Port of Shadows” (Le Quai des brumes) (1938), Jean Renoir’s “La Bête Humaine” (1938), Marcel Carné’s “Hôtel du Nord” (1938), Marcel Carné’s “Le Jour se lève” (Daybreak) 1939, and Pierre Chenal’s “Le Dernier Tournant” (1939). Five of the films are of the poetic realism movement (although as with anything else that could be debated): “The Lower Depths,” “Pépé le Moko,” Port of Shadows,” “La Bête Humaine” and “Le Jour se lève.” The other four films contain similar themes. In three of the films the protagonist commits suicide and suicide plays a role in two other films. In three of the films the protagonist is incarcerated or executed by the state. In one film the protagonist is killed senselessly. Three films have wives conspiring with lovers to kill husbands. In two films the protagonist survives with a lover although what follows that survival isn’t clear and in one film one lover is shot in a botched suicide pact. What also isn’t clear is whether there are more films called “noirs” that will show up with subsequent research and whether similar and earlier films made before the term “film noir” first hit ink are also film noirs. The film noirs considered part of the poetic realism movement have a visual style that would influence the American crime film made both during and after the war with “Port of Shadows” being the most obvious example, the other films are made in different styles. The remaining films – “Hôtel du Nord” and “Le Dernier Tournant” – are filmed in a more conventional style although the content contains murder or suicide and the other social taboos that are a mainstay of the film noirs. None of these films are about private detectives hard-boiled or otherwise and none of them are police procedurals or stories where the police – or any member of governmental society – are seen as heroic. The films are about the working class and those below the working class or, in a few films, what was once referred to as the Lumpenproletariat. In fact, there isn’t a single crime film – as that term is conventionally used – in the list. “Pépé Le Moko,” a film that centers on a fugitive criminal hiding in the Casbah of Algiers, is a film about memory and desire more than anything else and its suicide ending has to do with facing what the character believes he has lost and not the possibility of incarceration. Jean-Pierre Chartier – the other French critic who used the term “film noir” – wrote Americans Also Make Noir Films for La Révue du Cinéma in November of 1946. In that article he discusses three films: “Murder My Sweet,” “Double Indemnity” and “The Lost Weekend.” “But the hand of Billy Wilder is clearly evident, particularly in the first person narrative which is used as well in his other ‘noir’ film ‘The Lost Weekend.’” Here we have one of the legendary postwar French critics specifically citing a film as a “noir” and yet this film has been ignored in what is considered “film noir” by the noirists. In the pantheon of American so-called film noirs, “The Lost Weekend” could be known as “The Lost Noir.” “The Lost Weekend” isn’t listed in Film Noir: An Encyclopedic Reference of the American Style. In A Panorama of American Film Noir, Raymond Borde and Etienne Chaumeton mention “The Lost Weekend” as “having been classified, somewhat superficially, as belonging to the noir genre, doubtless because of the hospital scenes and the description of delirium tremens. Strangeness and crime, however, were absent from it, and the psychology of the drunk offered one of the most classic examples there are of the all-powerfulness of a rudimentary desire.” When A Panorama of American Film Noir was published in 1955, the notion that a “film noir” described a crime film, it created a gospel from which the form would never recover. Dismissing “The Lost Weekend” as “superficially . . . belonging to the noir genre” doomed the film to be ignored by future writings on “film noir.” On “The Lost Weekend,” Chartier writes, “The impressions of insanity, of a senseless void, left by the drama of a young man in the grip of singular addiction, makes ‘The Lost Weekend’ one of the most depressing films I have ever seen. Certainly a charming young lady helps our alcoholic hero sober up and permits the film to end with a kiss. But the impression of extreme despair persists despite this upbeat ending.” While Chartier noticed the kiss, he should have been watching the gun. Near the end of the film, the alcoholic – who has swapped the woman’s coat for a gun at a pawnshop – has the gun in the bathroom sink where he was going to blow his brains out. The coat is not a minor item. It symbolizes their relationship. At the end of the film he doesn’t give the gun to the woman to retrieve the coat. He puts the gun in his pocket. And there it stays. And there it will stay because he’s doomed. It’s only a matter of time and he knows it. And if the audience is paying attention, they know it too. There is no redemption here and there is nothing ambiguous about it because he makes the choice to keep the gun and to blow his brains out and find the darkness. Billy Widler slipped this subtlety past the censors and it would be a long time until another film could deal with the subject matter explicitly. Louis Malle, in 1963, with “The Fire Within,” dealt with same subject far more explicitly than Wilder and it raises the question of whether impending doom is more distressing than the arrival of doom. There would be many alcohol and substance abuse films in the coming decades – “The Man With The Golden Arm” and “A Hatful of Rain” among others – yet it wouldn’t be until Jerry Schatzberg’s 1971 “Panic In Needle Park” that any film would surpass the realism of “The Lost Weekend.” That “The Lost Weekend” harks back to the film noirs of poetic realism is obvious to anyone familiar with “La Bête Humaine” or “Les Bas-fonds.” Wilder insisted on shooting on location for the exterior shots in New York City, going so far as to build a box to hide the camera from pedestrians. Wilder insisted on the “realism” of the film and Don Burnam’s search for an open pawnshop on Yom Kippur – among other scenes – adds that dimension to the film."

House of Games yes Bedroom window is on my to see list.

Got to run to town will post the rest later.

1990s The Grifters (1990) The Kill-Off (1990) The Hot Spot (1990) Wild At Heart (1990) Impulse (1990) Dick Tracy (1990) Delicatessen (1991) A Rage In Harlem (1991) Delusion (1991) Reservoir Dogs (1992) Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (1992) The Public Eye (1992) Red Rock West (1993) Romeo Is Bleeding (1993) True Romance (1993) The Wrong Man (1993) China Moon (1994) The Last Seduction (1994) Pulp Fiction (1994) Natural Born Killers (1994) Blink (1994) Leaving Las Vegas (1995) Se7en (1995) Fargo (1996) Hard Eight (1996) Mulholland Falls (1996) Hit Me (1996) Cold Around The Heart (1997) Jackie Brown (1997) L.A. Confidential (1997) Lost Highway (1997) A Gun, A Car, A Blonde (1997) The Big Empty (1997) This World, Then the Fireworks (1997) Brown's Requiem (1998) Dark City (1998) A Simple Plan (1998) The Big Lebowski (1998) Very Bad Things (1998) Palmetto (1998) Payback (1999) Night Train (1999)

I'll give you my current chronological list of Transitional Noirs & Neo Noirs from 1960. 1960s Girl Of The Night (1960) Never let Go (1960) Murder, Inc. (1960) The Savage Eye (1960) The 3rd Voice (1960) Why Must I Die? (1960) 20,000 Eyes (1961) Blast Of Silence (1961) The Young Savages (1961) Night Tide (1961) Underworld USA (1961) Something Wild (1961) All Fall Down (1962) Cape Fear (1962) Experiment In Terror (1962) Manchurian Candidate (The)(1962) Private Property (1962) Requiem for a Heavyweight (1962) Satan in High Heels (1962) Shock Corridor (1962) Stark Fear (1962) Le concerto de la peur (1963) Twilight Of Honor (1963) The Naked Kiss (1964) The Pawnbroker (1964) Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964) Lorna (1964) The Glass Cage (1964) The Thrill Killers (1964) Strange Compulsion (1964) The Strangler (1964) Angel's Flight (1965) Brainstorm (1965) Flesh and Lace (1965) Hot Skin And Cold Cash (1965) Love Statue (The)(1965) Mirage (1965) Once A Thief (1965) Tell Me in the Sunlight (1965) Who Killed Teddy Bear (1965) Aroused (1966) Mister Buddwing (1966) Espions à l'affût (aka Heat Of Midnight) (1966) Seconds (1966) Rage (1966) Harper (1966) The Chase (1966) The Velvet Trap (1966) In The Heat Of The Night (1967) In Cold Blood (1967) The Incident (1967) Oddo (1967) The Outsider (1967) Reflections in a Golden Eye (1967) Sweet Love, Bitter (1967) The Sex Killer aka The Girl Killer (1967) A Sweet Sickness (1968) Some Like It Violent (1968) The Pick-Up (1968) Career Bed (1969) Marlowe (1969) Shame, Shame, everybody knows your name (1969) The Honeymoon Killers (1969) 1970s Darker Than Amber (1970) Shaft (1971) Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song (1971) Across 110th Street (1971) The Getaway (1971) Get Carter (1971) Hickey & Boggs (1972) Fat City (1972) Trick Baby (1972) The Friends of Eddie Coyle (1973) The Long Goodbye (1973) The Mad Bomber (1973) Bring Me The Head Of Alfredo Garcia (1974) The Nickel Ride (1974) Chinatown (1974) Death Wish (1974) Lenny (1974) Road Movie (1974) Mr. Ricco (1975) The Psychic Killer (1975) The Drowning Pool (1975) Farewell My Lovely (1975) Night Moves (1975) Seven Beauties (1975) Taxi Driver (1976) The Killer Inside Me (1976) The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976) Mikey and Nicky (1976) Bad (1977) The Late Show (1977) The Big Sleep (1978) 1980s Dressed to Kill (1980) Union City (1980) Body Heat (1981) Thief (1981) Blade Runner (1982) Hammett (1982) Vice Squad (1982) Tchao Pantin (So Long, Stooge) (1983) Blood Simple (1984) Paris, Texas (1984) Tightrope (1984) To Live and Die in L.A. (1985) After Hours (1985) Blue Velvet (1986) Eight Million Ways To Die (1986) Angel Heart (1987) Ironweed (1987) Siesta (1987) Slam Dance (1987) Warm Nights on a Slow Moving Train (1988) Kill Me Again (1989)

Yes by their style you will know them. 😎

Sounds like a Drama Noir to me, with same M.O. as In A Lonely Place.

The Astoria and the Flushing Elevated Lines were both built in 1917 so they are 102 years old, the platforms when I was a kid were wooden, don't remember when they concreted them but they were by the time I was in high school.

Mister Buddwing (1966) Lol, he didn't know it either. Sort of a psychological noir rather than a “crime” noir. A melancholy film that plays with time, space and your mind as the various vignettes overlap it's eerie and noir-ishly suspenseful, but at times darkly comic. It requires multiple viewings to fully comprehend. In a quest for a woman named Grace, Garner meets four women, Angela Lansbury, Katherine Ross, Susanne Pleshette, and Jean Simmons, each of the women he at first mistakes for Grace. So at first we see Garner interact with each woman in their true identities and at some point they become a vivid flashback to his relationship with Grace at different stages of his past life with Grace, the starry eyed young love stage, the struggle with real life, and the consequences of wrong decisions made. All this makes the viewer a little disoriented, a little lost, exactly how James Garner's character feels throughout the movie.

I'm just about finished with WILD TOWN have read THE KILLER INSIDE ME, POP 1280 (the character in this one is Lou Ford-ish also), HELL OF A WOMAN, A SWELL LOOKING BABE, didn't like the end of THE GETAWAY usually nobody does, lol. NOW ON EARTH is a sort of an autobiography, and THIS WORLD THEN THE FIREWORKS is a collection of shorter stories. Though I really like the Film This World Then The Fireworks with Sheryl Lee, Billy Zane, Rue McClanahan and Gina Gershon. The Kill-Off as a film though was a great cheapo production all up dated and set in a Jersey Shore Amusement Park town, check it out if you can find it. Hit Me is Based on A SWELL LOOKING BABE though it's updated to the then present and I really like it also.

Yea and the Triboro. What is cool for me in that sequence is the size of the trees. I remember going to Astoria park as a little kid sitting on the hillside between the pool and the Triboro Bridge and watching all the ship traffic, car floats and tugs scurrying up and down the East River, it was quite the show, especially when the Hell Gate tide rip was in full force. You can't do that now all the trees have grown so big that unless you are down by the sea wall you can't see the river from the grass hillside. lol. Anyway here's a cool video of that Hell Gate tide rip and the problems it can cause for all those not from Astoria, NY.

I've got it ordered, there are still half a dozen Thompson books that I haven't read. I'm looking forward to reading the story in it's correct setting.

I don't know. I didn't start regularly watching TV again until roughly 1999. I have a couple of gaps, the first between 1970 to 1977-78 then another from 1996-1998. Between 1978 and 1990 there was a period where we lived in the Northwest corner of Montana and got three broadcast channels one of which was CBC out of British Columbia, then got basic cable with no TCM until 1996. Didn't get cable again this time with TCM until roughly 1998.