cigarjoe

A friend of mine (anticipated this thread) just quoted Tarantino in a new book about Once Upon A Time In The West (1969) by Christopher Frayling. In his "foreword" (really just a long tape-recorded ramble) to Once Upon a Time in the West: Shooting a Masterpiece, QT takes the opportunity to talk about his favorite film, The Good The Bad And The Ugly (GBU). He eventually gets to OUATITW, but I find his comments below quite interesting. I have returned Tarantino's spellings to American ones, and cut some of the repetition. Quote I love [GBU] more than [OUATITW] because I think it’s funnier and a little less self-satisfied with its own masterpieceness. It has been my favorite since I was a little kid because I saw it when I was crazy young and loved it. That’s never changed . . . GBU is my favorite movie and my favorite line in all movies is: “There are two kinds of people in the world. . . those with loaded guns and those who dig.” That movie is consistently witty, but with a certain kind of wit, a certain sense of humor. That is, this weird mythic macho gallows sense of humor that runs throughout the whole thing. It is just so funny. Almost whenever they open their mouths, you hear some of the funniest lines I have heard in my life. To think that it was written in Italian and then we hear the translated version and it is still that funny—it just blows me away. . . . And the cinematic set pieces and the orchestration of music with the images. Obviously those things. I think it’s a combination of those with the fact that . . . I remember even feeling this from the point when I was a little boy watching it . . . the characters are so disreputable. The fact that Eastwood being called The Good is ironic. The whole world he created, there’s something really special about it. The characters are so disreputable and you follow this really weird rag-tag adventure with them where they’re tossed from one situation to another. That really shouldn’t be as compelling as it is, nor should they be as compelling as they are. But they are. Wherever they get tossed you go with them to that place. It never seems disjointed. It never seems like it’s a bunch of vignettes strung together. You truly go on an adventure and it never proclaims itself as an adventure, other than they’re looking for the gold. We want these characters to have a bond—especially Clint Eastwood and Eli Wallach. It kills us that they don’t. So we emotionally supply the bond, which is one of the reasons why we have a rooting interest in the movie. We emotionally supply the bond that the characters on screen obviously don’t have because we are now bonded with them. We care about them. . . To me one of the most weird things in the history of cinema is, after going through this incredible journey in GBU, we have fallen in love with Eastwood and Wallach. . . but they still screw each other over. You actually think that the Man With No Name might just hang Tuco at the end of the movie and it is so crushing you are thinking, “Can’t you guys just feel something of the way that we feel toward you?” No one else would do a three-hour epic where there really is no bond between these guys no matter what they have been through. There’s a beauty in that. They’ve gone through so much together. You love them. You can’t believe one would betray the other in that way. But then you also know that Tuco would have done the same thing to him in two seconds, if not worse . . . Probably worse. But the thing is you go through this adventure with them and then you have this emotional commitment that you add to it. Then after this whole rag-tag adventure, it ends up at that shootout. Which by the way, he shot the showdown in the bullring as if the looking for the grave scene, the “ecstasy of gold” wouldn’t be enough. As if the Civil War scene wouldn’t be enough. He goes to that bullring and I think the greatest piece of music ever written for a movie is matched with the greatest scene ever shot. I mean, really." Nothing profound here, but QT has obviously spent a lot of time thinking about the movie, and he probably expresses the sentiments of many. I like the fact that he has a glimmer of understanding of what GBU 2: Tuco's Revenge would be like. An unstoppable force like Tuco would certainly come after his "friend-o" for the money he stole. It's all Tuco's money, and he can't stop until he gets it all back.

Ralph Meeker's dump below (now with a restored facade) in Something Wild (1961)

Agree two lost souls managed to find each other and bring into the equation what the other needed. Full review with kick a$$ noir screencaps here: Noirsville 😎

Yea I noticed I also liked Something Wild a scooch more, but I'm a native NYC boy and relate. BTW quite a few locations from Something Wild are still there even Meeker's apartment house with a fixed up facade below right along the Manhattan Bridge.

I gave it a 7/10. Apparently getting your bell rung not only gives you amnesia but also turns you, seven years later, into an evangelical faith healer raking in the big bucks. To paraphrase an old Cheech and Chong line Ted used to be f-ed up on women, now as Tad, he is f-ed up on the Lord. Full review with lots of screencaps here: Noirsville

Yea, makes use of Angels Flight and the Bradbury building, and mannequins if I remember right, it was watchable.

No. If you read Blackout: World War II and the Origins of Film Noir: Sheri Chinen, she makes the case that the studios were rationed on the amount of electricity they could use during the war years so they allocated the most of that to their "A" productions and less to the "B's" resulting in enforcing that particular look. Other influences were German Expressionism, French poetic realism, and tabloid journalism. Once the war ended the rationing obviously did also, and as I mentioned real locations began to come to the forefront. Whether a film tunes noir for you is going to depend on an individual internal factor. It's subjectivity. Noir is in all of us. Think of us all as having an internal tuning fork, these tuning forks are forged by our life experiences which are all unique. When we watch these films their degree of Noir-ness resonates with us differently, so we either "tune" to them or we don't. The amount of "tuning" (I'm appropriating this term from the Neo Noir Dark City (1998)) to certain films will vary between us all also. Some folks will tune to the dark storylines, others more to the visuals, others a combo of both, some will insist there be a detective or a femme fatale, others crime, etc., etc., there is no pigeonhole it will ever fit into. You know it when you see it.

You're jesting The political right wing in France, 😎

But, usually when i've heard the term film gris it's used for those Noir that lack the "in your face" visual style. Naked City would be a good example of this. It's opening sequence and one of the chase sequences are quite noirish the rest of the film has that another new evolving archetype for Noir, the rise of interesting on location shooting that was made available after WWII from the lighter more mobile war correspondent cameras developed during the conflict.

It's Sue Ane Langdon!!!!!

The coiners of the second coming of noir considered it so, it is what it is. Even you mentioned once there's film blanc and film noir.

Ok here we go again..... "The term “film noir” seems to have been first coined by the political right-wing and that may be because many – but not all – of the film noirs were from the poetic realist movement that was closely associated with the leftist Popular Front. There are nine film noirs identified in O’Briens essay: Pierre Chenal’s “Crime and Punishment” (1935), Jean Renoir’s “The Lower Depths” (Les Bas-fonds) (1936), Julien Duvivier’s “Pépé le Moko” (1937), Jeff Musso’s “The Puritan” (1938), Marcel Carné’s “Port of Shadows” (Le Quai des brumes) (1938), Jean Renoir’s “La Bête Humaine” (1938), Marcel Carné’s “Hôtel du Nord” (1938), Marcel Carné’s “Le Jour se lève” (Daybreak) 1939, and Pierre Chenal’s “Le Dernier Tournant” (1939). Five of the films are of the poetic realism movement (although as with anything else that could be debated): “The Lower Depths,” “Pépé le Moko,” Port of Shadows,” “La Bête Humaine” and “Le Jour se lève.” The other four films contain similar themes. In three of the films the protagonist commits suicide and suicide plays a role in two other films. In three of the films the protagonist is incarcerated or executed by the state. In one film the protagonist is killed senselessly. Three films have wives conspiring with lovers to kill husbands. In two films the protagonist survives with a lover although what follows that survival isn’t clear and in one film one lover is shot in a botched suicide pact. What also isn’t clear is whether there are more films called “noirs” that will show up with subsequent research and whether similar and earlier films made before the term “film noir” first hit ink are also film noirs. The film noirs considered part of the poetic realism movement have a visual style that would influence the American crime film made both during and after the war with “Port of Shadows” being the most obvious example, the other films are made in different styles. The remaining films – “Hôtel du Nord” and “Le Dernier Tournant” – are filmed in a more conventional style although the content contains murder or suicide and the other social taboos that are a mainstay of the film noirs. In August 1946,"L'Écran français published Nino Frank’s article A New Kind of Police Drama: the Criminal Adventure. He begins by citing “seven new American films that are particularly masterful: ‘Citizen Kane,’ ‘The Little Foxes,’ ‘How Green Was My Valley,’ plus, ‘Double Indemnity,’ ‘Laura,’ and, to a certain extent, ‘The Maltese Falcon’ and ‘Murder My Sweet.’” He then focuses only on the crime films. “They belong,” Frank wrote of the crime films, “to a class that we used to call the crime film, but would best be described from this point on by a term such as criminal adventures, or better yet, such as criminal psychology.” He goes on to note the passing of the Golden Age of mysteries – as practiced by S. S. Van Dine – to the new writers such as Dashiell Hammett. “Laura,” he notes, belongs to the “outdated genre” and it is “lacking in originality but perfectly distracting and, one can say, successful.” What saves “Laura” as a film for Frank is “a complicated narrative, a perverse writer who is prosaic but amusing, and foremost a detective with an emotional life.” “For the other three, the method is different. They are,” Frank wrote, “as what one might call ‘true to life.’ The detective is not a mechanism but a protagonist.” He notes that the films end with scenes that “are harsh and misogynistic, as is most of contemporary American literature.” And he adds, “I would not go so far as to say these films are completely successful. While “The Maltese Falcon” is “quite exciting,” “Murder My Sweet” is “very uneven and at times vacuous.” Jean-Pierre Chartier – the other French critic who used the term “film noir” – wrote "Americans Also Make Noir Films" for La Révue du Cinéma in November of 1946. In that article he discusses three films: “Murder My Sweet,” “Double Indemnity” and “The Lost Weekend.” (William Ahearn) Jean-Pierre Chartier & Nino Frank DEFINED the Films Noir in their two articles. They are the SOURCE. The "plenty of sites" don't know **** they are talking about. We have (above) the the two re-animators of the term listing the Films They considered NOIR. Ol' MIA member Sarge just couldn't get his enormous brain around that that concept. Noir's essence is in the films they listed, and including Lost Weekend includes all the psychological factors, the alcoholics, the dopers, the secx addicts, the junkies, those addicted to gambling, hookers, pimps, degenerates, and other subject matter considered immoral and demoralizing along with Crime. Not one and not the other, both. But hey. there are some folks that distill their subjective definition of Film Noir to being only those films with Detectives and Femme Fatales. Film Noir is simply films all about the dark side of human nature but also with it's visual style functioning as its DNA.

A similar still is on the cover of Incredibly Strange Films

Roughies showed violence, usually against women (nothing new in films), but also with a lot of T&A and occasional meer glimpses of bush, these films were produced in the 1966-1968 range. Obscenity laws were evolving in the courts. By 1969 full frontal female nudity was permitted (hilariously giving rise to a lot of, what else, lesbian themed stories) the men were all still wearing tighty whities, jockey shorts or pants and simulating sex, combine this with the ingredients of Roughies gave you Rough Core. In 1970 fully X Rated films were allowed.

Not all Noirs are about Crime. The streetcar named Film Noir went off the Crime Genre rails early, basically right at the onset of it's second coming. The Lost Weekend for example, delved into addiction and human frailties, not crime, Noir in its original 1930's use meant any films with subject matter considered immoral and demoralizing. Another example is Psychological Noir In A Lonely Place (1950). Others noir essentially without the crime (murder) usually associated with Film Noir, Nightmare Alley (1947), Set-Up (The) (1949), Ace In The Hole (Big Carnival (The)) (1951), Quicksand (1950), Killer That Stalked New York (1951), Detective Story (1951), Caged (1950), Pickup (1951), Don't Bother to Knock (1952), Jeopardy (1953), The Wages of Fear (1953), Fright (1956), Wrong Man (The) (1956), Sweet Smell Of Success (1957), and Two Men In Manhattan (Deux Hommes Dans Manhattan)(1959). Transitional Psychological Noir Mister Buddwing (1966) has no crime either, nor does Girl Of The Night (1960), The Savage Eye (1960), Something Wild (1961), Private Property (1962), Requiem for a Heavyweight (1962), Satan in High Heels (1962), Strange Compulsion (1964), Sweet Love, Bitter (1967), A Sweet Sickness (1968), Shame, Shame, everybody knows your name (1969).

For Anybodies Information.... In the hierarchy of Exploitation films dealing with "sex" the stages were Nudie Cuties (above), Sexploitation, Roughies, Rough Core, and White Coaters. White Coaters functioned much as the old Public Service films showing what was forbidden in the guise of doctors studies and cautionary warnings about sex. The next step was Hard Core loops and X Rated films.

I can't believe this thread is still alive and kicking

Allison Hayes active 1954 to 1967 Attack of the 50 Foot Woman (1958) and lots of TV

He's pretty good as the hypnotist in The Hypnotic Eye (1960) with Merry Anders and 50 foot woman Allison Hayes.

Dort Clark when it came to Shady characters Dort excelled at conmen, sleaze balls, used car salesmen, etc., etc. Clark's most memorable roles include the Sheriff hunting down a giant runaway breast in EVERYTHING YOU ALWAYS WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT SEX * (BUT WERE AFRAID TO ASK), the foul-mouthed Pennypacker in SKIN GAME, Enoch Purdy in FOOLS' PARADE, Inspector Barnes in BELLS ARE RINGING, Boston in IN HARM'S WAY and Ted Wilson in FATE IS THE HUNTER. His many other film and TV credits include: THE LOVED ONE, ST. BENNY THE DIP, STUDIO ONE IN HOLLYWOOD, THE PHIL SILVERS SHOW, MIKE HAMMER, JOHNNY STACCATO, SAINTS AND SINNERS, NAKED CITY, CAR 54 WHERE ARE YOU?, REDIGO, MICKEY, I'D RATHER BE RICH, THE FUGITIVE, BEWITCHED, THE MUNSTERS, PERRY MASON, THE MONKEES, THE FLYING NUN, RUN BUDDY RUN, THE INVADERS, GET SMART, GOMER PYLE USMC, THE WILD WILD WEST, AIRPORT, IRONSIDE, THE PARTRIDGE FAMILY, KOLCHAK: THE NIGHT STALKER, CANNON, THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW, and more.

A special shout out to Myra Lynn She played a hilarious Russian General Raskonokov in a hilarious episode of Car 45 Where Are You? who becomes a capitalist stripper.

They all got rights issues here every time one is scheduled we get North By Northwest 😎, Hey maybe that explains it.

Shown on a double bill with Three On A Moose

So if a composer wrote the music for the entire film, he would not have a soundtrack credit.