Bronxgirl48

lz, what a great analysis of Rance. Yes, Tom definitely is the hero -- the tragic hero.

And that essayist agreed with me about CITIZEN KANE, lol. No, I frankly can never get sick of Pappy and discussions of him; he's like a well that never runs dry, as a person and as a filmmaker. As a relative neophyte to his work, I'm grateful for you and the other astute Fordies on these boards for your remarkable insights and, perhaps more importantly, your feelings about the heart and soul of his work. Thanks for the tip about SARGEANT RUTLEDGE; I loved Woody in VALANCE. The more I see THE HORSE SOLDIERS, the more I too am warming up to Connie.

Thanks for your concern about my mother, Frank. She'll get in one final hair coloring before the operation. Hopefully in a month or two or sooner she'll be back at the wheel (she's a good driver) and back to her usual routines. You are right imo about Hallie being the restless one, wanting something new. That's why for me she seems ambivalent about Tom. She's got a temper, of course, but I call it the "Ford temper", the one where characters kick others in the butt, throw hats on the floor, dole out tough-love verbal abuse, etc. Hallie doesn't kick anyone in the butt of couse, lol, but she does gives Andy a hard time. But I really love her performance, as opposed to THE SEARCHERS. There she's just whinily assertive; in VALANCE, she's got much more emotional depth. I'm not crazy about Stoddard's character. Maybe it's the way Stewart plays it, I don't know. He's real quick to run back into that convention hall after learning the truth of the gunfight, and claim political victory. He's somewhat condescending as he's teaching the little class. I like the way Pompey doesn't remember the "all men are created equal" passage. Significantly, he never says it out loud because he knows it really isn't true. Rance (and Ford) tells him (and us) that a lot of people forget it. Are there any other instances of racial tolerance in his movies? I'm not sure if Hallie ever really loved Rance. She loved what he represented.

You're right, pilgrim, Tom indeed uses his gun to teach the tenderfoot to shoot! For me, too, film memory is sometimes clearer than reality. Goldie Hawn in THE SUGARLAND EXPRESS gives a great dramatic perrformance, btw. Ben was even good in MIGHTY JOE YOUNG, protecting and falling in love with Terry Moore.

LOL, well, Ford might have exclaimed, "What the hell is this b.s.?" I like intellectual film analyses but only when I think they have clarity and substance and are genuinely about the subject, not the writer's attempt to impress an elite audience. I think this one delivers the goods. Basically what I get from her is that myth and historical fact co-exist in VALANCE. Which in large part is also our narrative as a nation, which makes the movie for me one of the greatest American films. I can enjoy this movie on so many levels, not the least of which is a purely visceral one: Wayne's nonchalant kick to Strother Martin at the restaurant. I can expound all day about what Ford REALLY meant, but when you come right down to it, the cactus rose expresses more than words can say.

Here is a brilliant essay that really gives us something to chew on: (Miss G., see Endnote no 1) http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/cteq/07/45/liberty-valance-trifonova.html Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

I thought the use of "Home on the Range" by the politicians at the convention was satirical and ironic; they were using the song to whip up mythic sentiments about the old West, which was rapidly declining. I always remember the music in Ford films. Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

Well THE GRAPES OF WRATH was filmed at the tail-end of the Depression but Roosevelt's New Deal was still held in high esteem by a lot of people. (you'll note a lot of FDR worship in thirties movies) I haven't read the Steinbeck book. The Joads in the movie, being proud and independent people, do seem wary of the camp throughout. Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

Thanks for your kind sentiments about Mom. I hope there aren't any complications; I tend to be the worrier in the family, not her. I've always loved that song but I guess Pappy felt it would have been just too much.

Nanny state is a government overly protective of its citizens; it means well, but tends to feel that people need to be told what is best for them in terms of their personal lives; i.e., political correctness taken to extremes. Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

This is Gene's original recording, the one us Boomers first heard back in the 60's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQgFRiDqnEs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vdKaqYar5s&feature=related

Yes, we're both not that kind of girl, LOL. I hear Burt's very good in THE SWIMMER, with of course the frosting on the cake being his swim trunk clad fine self. Haven't seen THE PROFESSIONALS, or THE TRAIN for that matter. (or THE LEOPARD)

I like Hume as the milquetoast murder-mystery loving neighbor in SHADOW OF A DOUBT and the wily lawyer in THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE.

Yes, the subject matter of THE GRAPES OF WRATH is just so historically painful. btw, does anyone else feel queasy about Grant Mitchell's character? That camp is just so....dare I say, nanny-state-ish, or am I just getting ornery in my "old age"?? Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

lz, check out Ben in THE SUGARLAND EXPRESS.

Your posts are always thought-provoking and well-written.

I LOVE LEE MARVIN IN EVERYTHING HE EVER DID.

Frank, I posted my VALANCE thoughts on the Western thread. (probably should have put them on this one, but I'm getting more confused lately; I'm worried about my wedding) Get over there, pilgrim! Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

Hi, guys. My mother will be undergoing eye surgery (relatively "minor"; the recovery at home is the hardship -- for about two to three weeks the patients have to sit in this specially designed chair and keep their head down most of the time to facilitate the cure) next week so I've been running errands for her in advance and things have been hectic. This procedure is common for folks her age and as she's naturally an optimistic person (although you wouldn't know it from my exchanges with her posted on these boards, LOL) everyone predicts a speedy recovery. So, on to TMWSLV! I read all the wonderfully insightful comments everywhere on the threads here, starting from last year, and so I'll just throw in my two cents without expecting yet another round-robin of discussion. What's so brilliant to me about the movie is the way Ford ostensibly deconstructs his own myths; therefore, under ordinary circumstances, one would think, why would a canny director cast two stars who are clearly too old for their parts? But this artistic decision (like what I think is mainly an artistic decision to film in b&w) is deliberately referential. In the scenes where Wayne is blissfully unaware of the growing relationship between Hallie and Rance, Doniphon is the tough, self-assured, easy-going ruler of the roost in Shinbone, and he ambles around not in character it seems, but as the Duke, Wayne playing himself, clearly looking in his fifties, bemused at apparent ****-waist Stewart, but that's the smile of a proud lion of an actor showing up on the set as if he were a guest star in a vanity production of a friend, content to parody his vaulted screen persona. Then, after Tom knows the truth, Wayne then shifts into emotional gear and goes deep into his character's angst, miraculously becoming twenty years younger, actually looking like The Ringo Kid in STAGECOACH! The cinematography isn't attempting to "cover up" the aging Wayne as much as it's "opening up" the iconic timeless presence of Wayne as Ford's mythic cowboy. In the case of Stewart, I at first was embarrassed by his portrayal -- all quivering "youthful" emotion and grit; despite the fact that he's from the East and is an intellectual, he's got plenty of moxie, defending Anna Lee and standing up to Liberty during the stagecoach robbery.(incomparable Lee Marvin), even though when he's being fed the Aquavit-and-coffee by Jeanette Nolan, he's hesitatingly drinking it like it was the foul brew he's forced to drink to get rid of Kim Novak's spell in BELL, BOOK AND CANDLE; he looks too vulnerable for his own good. Unlike Wayne, Stewart can't look twenty years younger but he ACTS as though he were 20 years old most of the time during the flashbacks, and his impassioned characterization harkens back to his own mythology as an actor, most especially in MR.SMITH GOES TO WASHINGTON. Stewart as an actor always wears his emotions on his sleeve, so he's the perfect foil for the reserved and stoic Doniphon. (therefore, the laconic and reserved Henry Fonda wouldn't have been a good choice for Stoddard) At times the movie reminded me of CITIZEN KANE -- you've got the power of the press, flashback sequences, myth vs. reality, an attempt to get at the truth of a legend, "nostalgic" black and white cinematography to enhance the stylization. What was that line from BRINGING UP BABY? I'm paraphrasing -- the love impulse is expressed through hostility, or aggression? I think Ford was the kind of person who in private could only express his emotions obliquely, and his characters on film seem to do the same. Hallie and Tom are both strong and seemingly invulnerable; you can tell they've had a contentious relationship since childhood. They're both so fond of each other but can't really express how they feel. (and in every Ford movie a character has to tell someone to "Shut up!") I don't think it's Tom who is slow to marry Hallie; on the contrary, I think she's slow to come around to appreciate HIM. I think he just covers up when Peabody asks if Tom is going to get hitched; maybe to save face he tells him he doesn't want to be rushed. Edmond O'Brien is one of my favorite actors, and he's magnificent as news editor Peabody, but he does seem to be channelling Thomas Mitchell! (not that that's a bad thing) I love how he references Greek mythology when he refers to Liberty's minions as "mymidons". And the play on the word "liberty" is brilliant, when he tells Marvin: "Liberty, are you taking liberties with the liberty of the press?" Andy Devine is somber and thoughtful in the opening framing sequence, then becomes buffoonish during the flashbacks. He's a wonderful actor who can do serious very well. The opening is so poignant, Hallie's arthritic fingers slowly pointing to Tom's garden; her faint but unmistakable look of disgust at husband Rance as he's being the blowhard politician (you can tell they do not have a happy marriage, and she regrets not marrying Tom; her education came at a cost, to all of them) Frank, I see what you mean about Doniphon -- what self-sacrifice! As a "simple" love story, his actions could be viewed as idealized, or if the characters are all symbolic and the story an allegory about the passing of the West and the reluctant but necessary coming of the railroad, he's the old cowboy who must make way for civilization that the railroad represents. The play on the word "liberty" is brilliant, as Peabody says to Marvin: "Liberty, are you taking liberties with the liberty of the press?" The sets are claustrophobic; most of the action takes places at night; no sweeping sunlit panoramas, no Monument Valley. Fire seems to play an important role though, Tom casually strikes many matches, in his anguish over losing Hallie he sets fire to the house addition, the stove is always lit to make the giant steaks for the hungry men at Peter's Place. light and shadow represent the illumination of truth against the shadows of myth and legend, but they can also be interchangeable; the shadows are the comfortable past, but the past influences the future, fire and light represent the march of civilization, but that light can be harsh and glaring, and sometimes blinds us to the true reality of imagination and legend. Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

Miss G., lz, Frank -- Well I've seen what I think is Ford's masterpiece, his best western and one of the greatest American films, THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE. I'll be back on the boards this evening and give my best shot (so to speak!) in defining my views on this important work. "Hey, pilgrim! You forgot your pop-gun!" Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

The Democratic and Republican '08 conventions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj5ASETMdK4&feature=related Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

I'll say he had a graceful ruggedness. Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

BTW, did anyone notice in the ATTACK OF THE PUPPET PEOPLE clip that the giant telephone looks like the one Margaret Sullavan has to answer in NO SAD SONGS FOR ME? (although hers is appropriately black, sorry to say, and this one is white) Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48

Gloria Holden is terrific in DRACULA'S DAUGHTER -- and I wish she could have bitten Marguerite Churchill on the neck instead of sweet Nan Grey. hey-hey, ho-ho, George Arliss has got to go! hey-hey, ho-ho, Angelo Rossitto should be the show! Message was edited by: Bronxgirl48