ChipHeartsMovies

Just a couple of hours to go! I'm Brooklyn-bound tonight to join CineMaven's gang for her starring turn. I'll try to convince her to take a photo to post!

I'm with CineSage on this one. I watched this movie with an open mind, and I was very disappointed. And a little horrified.

Yes, I read your original post. I think I responded in a thoughtful way. And I'm newly energized to support John Waters and his skankiest movie moments. If he still irks you so much that you are still crabbing about this...well, well-done, Mr. Waters. LOL. Take a deep breath. Enjoy films for their artistic value, even if their artistic value doesn't match your strict guidelines. (Be careful, I may be licking your sofa as we speak...)

It's like the night before Christmas!

Lynn, it will indeed be an exciting week for _all_ of us --- obviously for you Fan Programmers, but also for your TCM pals who are so happy for you!

John Waters did intend to shock, no question. And he succeeded. The final scene in *Pink Flamingos* will never be forgotten by anyone who has seen it. He self-financed and self-produced his early movies because he was such a freak that that's the only way he could have been a filmmaker. Divine wanted to be Elizabeth Taylor, and he saw that in her. He brought GENUINELY independent film to a new high, building on the works by folks like the Kuchar Brothers, Doris Wishman, and Kenneth Anger. He is an extremely smart man, and one who is well-versed in film. He makes reference to classic movie moments in many of his films, from that *The Girl Can't Help It* moment in *Pink Flamingos* to using framed posters of some of those awful Taylor/Burton 60's films as "art" on the walls. Just like when you watch *Network* today you get a chill when you realize just how perceptive Sidney Lumet was... *Network* has effectively become reality. In Waters' film *Female Trouble* and to a lesser extent in *Pink Flamingos* he hit the nail on the head nearly 40 years ago about the trashy celebrity culture we wallow in today. You can't seriously think that the existence of *PF* can be blamed for *A Shot at Love with Tila Tequila* or *Rock of Love Bus* -- in fact, Waters was smartly predicting how things could happen. I am an admitted fan of his work. I don't really know him, but I've met him socially several times, and I can tell you that he certainly doesn't "laugh at the suckers." He is very, very nice to his fans. You can certainly dislike his work, but trust that he genuinely is expressing a unique artistic voice that at its best --- for my money *Pink Flamingos* and *Female Trouble* (in my book his very best) and *Hairspray* --- belong on any list of films that broke ground artistically. His early movies are certainly vulgar (to the extreme) and raunchy, and I can see how this would turn off many viewers, particularly the sort of folks that are drawn to TCM's wonderful fare. The old Waters ones intentionally try to shock you, and 40 years later they still do. They're not for everyone, and that's okay, and frankly one of the reasons that *Pink Flamingos* and company are so beloved by many (including me) is that it is subversive enough to make many others (including you) so upset. FORTY YEARS LATER. I love it. (And I say this with a friendly tone, I enjoy spirited conversation on the boards). As for *Eraserhead*, here's my take on that: In college I went to see *Eraserhead* many times at weekend midnight showings, and my friends and I LOVED it. Like it or not, it is an absolutely unique movie, and as weird as it is it struck a chord with us. A few years ago I snagged a South Korean DVD (it wasn't available on DVD then; it has since been legally released here) and couldn't WAIT to see it. And like you, TikiSoo, I couldn't even get through it with multiple tries. At least in my experience, *Eraserhead* needs to be seen in a theatre, with other people. We always need to remember that films are different in that communal big dark room. I am lucky to live in NYC, where I often get to see classic films on the big screen. I can tell you that *Sunset Boulevard* has a totally different impact when Norma Desmond thanks "those wonderful people out there in the dark" --- it's great on TV, but your brain explodes when you ARE one of those wonderful people out there in the dark. I certainly don't think *Eraserhead* is in a league with *Sunset Boulevard* --- that was just the best example I could personally cite about the different ways you can experience a movie onscreen and on DVD. Anyway, that's my take on it. Hope you don't think I am one of the Filthiest People Alive....or maybe, I do, hehe.

This is also the plot of *Crazy in Alabama* (1999) with Melanie Griffith. I hate that I know this.

Wow, someone hated *Pink Flamingos* a LOT. I can certainly understand your dislike of certain aspects of this movie. But *Pink Flamingos* REALLY was a catalyst in changing popular culture's attitudes. PM me if you'd like to discuss.

UGH. AMC -- uh, does that still stand for AMERICAN MOVIE CLASSICS???? (Ha) -- is now dipping deep into the public domain well to offer you online streams of TWENTY SEVEN public domain films. Remember once upon a time, before TCM existed, that AMC was the gatekeeper for classic movies without commercials. And now...UGH. Nowadays: *Rambo II* with 80 commercials, anyone? My friends, if you mysteriously think that AMC's (haha BMC's) offer to show you 27 public domain movies is exciting, please check out the Prelinger Archives: http://www.archive.org/details/prelinger This wonderful site has over 2000 public domain movies absolutely free to download or stream anytime. Every single title "AMC/BMC" offers, plus _2000_ others.

Fred, even if we have begun to see Garbo's career through a different lens later in life, it is inarguable that she is among the most beautiful and desirable women who ever made a movie. So you guys had that right in Berkeley! Your starting this thread has made me think about the different ways both the initial audience and subsequent audiences of classic films and stars feel about them. Take Mae West. A UNIQUE star. I honestly am not 100% sure who liked or didn't like her in the 30's. She was one-of-a-kind, and she had a very complex career (which I do know a lot about) --- but her career was SO individual I genuinely don't know what her fan base was originally. She had a huge fan base, though. Later audiences? In the 50's she was viewed as a has-been with a sad Vegas show with muscle-men, in the 60's many women disliked her and saw her as a throwback to bad old stereotypes (while she unfortunately guest-starred on *Mister Ed* ), in the 70's she was a camp figure in the worst way. It's easy to laugh at *Sextette* , and I certainly do, but it's also sad and a little mean. Fast forward to the 2000's, when a feminist theatre company in NYC revives Mae's '20's play "Sex" off-off Broadway, and sees her as the ORIGINAL feminist. The New York Times does multiple articles about the show and about Mae. And then I take the time to check out who she was and what her ORIGINAL contribution to theatre and film was...and by golly, they're right. VERY interesting thread.

Fedya, by the time the funeral rolls around in *Imitation of Life* I have been howling for hours. My favorite line in that movie is when Juanita Moore is on her death bed and tells Lana Turner she wants to bequeath something to her friends at church. Lana Turner ... who has lived with this woman for 15 or so years, starting by allowing her to be her maid in exchange for room & board ... says "I didn't know you had friends." Priceless!

Fred, I would love to discuss the Garbo topic more with you. Among Garbo's films --- for some reason I really like *Mata Hari* (not often considered among her best, but I really like it), and I absolutely love *Queen Christina* and *Ninotchka* . I had no idea that Garbo struck a chord with young people in the 70's. Tell me more!

filmlover said: Actually, "Those Lips, Those Eyes" is one of my favorites, but my absolute favorite is "Casablanca" (as I mention in the Fan Retrospactive that airs periodically on TCM this month). In deciding which film to use for my one chance on TCM, I wanted my choice to be one that hadn't yet aired on TCM and one that meant a lot to me personally And I enjoy seeing you on TCM, got that you loved *Casablanca* , but I was expressing my deep appreciation that your final choice was a movie that I have never heard of. patful, There's no shame in not having seen *The Letter* or *She Wore a Yellow Ribbon* -- like I said, I have never seen 2/3 of the James Dean canon. The only shame comes if you _willfully_ refuse to watch next week when you know that our buddies CineMaven and lzcutter chose those particular movies as their signature Fan Programmer picks, and actually introduce them on TCM! So excited to see Our Gang at their best! Starting Monday at 8 PM with CineMaven's take on *The Letter* (at least on the East Coast). SO happy for my pals. This is something really special.

Good point about how the take on the original audience may differ for contemporary folks. I believe *The Women* was originally a movie that played well to women --- very glamorous women, wife reigns over shady interloper, strong older female characters, problems of a mother. Plus, the fashions are an important part of the film; in the 30's, many women, especially in smaller towns, were wowed by fashion in the movies. For 1930's men, not so interesting --- only one actress in the film was out and out sexy (Joan Crawford), and men are so unimportant that they aren't anywhere to be seen. Some of my women friends (who are not particularly classic movie buffs) dislike *The Women* --- they feel it enforces negative stereotypes at every corner, with the possible exception of Marjorie Main. Other than classic movie fans, the biggest contemporary fans of *The Women* largely seem to be gay men, who uniformly love it. And uniformly love Roz Russell in particular. I haven't seen *Sierra Madre* enough times to weigh in on it. And I have to agree that for almost any person today that isn't predisposed to like classics that *Camille* will be found boring. (The pacing of many Garbo movies doesn't seem to work for newer audiences). As for its reception in the 30's, I can see the argument that it appealed to both guys and gals.

Patful, maybe we should ring the real Margaret O'Brien up directly and ask her to cake walk your pending Texas storms under the nearest bamboo tree. Even Mother Nature couldn't resist Margaret, who is nearly as adorable today as she was in the 40's. Filmlover, of all the movies that the Fan Programmers chose the one I am most eager to see is your choice: *Those Lips, Those Eyes* . I (shamefully) admit I had never heard of it, as much of a movie geek as I am, and I think it's the only one among the Fan Programmer picks I haven't seen. THIS is why I love the TCM Boards...wherever we live, there are only a handful of people who really, really love movies like we do. And when somebody like Filmlover chooses a movie I've never heard of as his absolute favorite, that's a movie I'm watching! CineMaven, I was in Jerry Ohlinger's today, as I often am for work reasons. (For those not in NYC, Jerry's is a wonderful store in Our Town with thousands of photos of every classic star for sale, not to mention every original movie poster imaginable, plus at least today they had a battered copy of Tallulah Bankhead's autobiography for $8). CineMaven is a New Yorker like I, and If you've read this whole thread along the way you'll recall that she recently stopped in there and was recognized by the staff of the Ultimate Movie Geek Store as a Fan Programmer, because her photo appears in the Now Playing magazine, which they sell. She actually signed autographs! I told the staff that you got a kick out of that experience, CM, and the adorable Dolly (the cute redhead who handles customer photo requests) told me how much she LOVED talking to you. Now Dolly is someone who really knows her classic movie stuff...she has helped me identify what glamour publicity photos of Ann Blyth match up with which movie they have no visual relation to...but she confessed to me that she has never seen *The Letter* . We all have the odd classic we've never seen. I've previously admitted to *Giant* and *East of Eden* . Dolly asked me to tell you she is tuning into *The Letter* Monday night. Because YOU recommended it. Just letting you know. Congratulations, Fan Programmers.

Catwoman, as I've said in other threads I think Margaret O'Brien was the first child star to actually seem like a real child. I agree with you 100%.

Not Temple.

Whoever she is, she has fine taste in accessories for one so young. Wow.

Be sure and check out *The Youngest Profession* next time it airs on TCM. It's a rare lead role for Virginia Weidler --- she plays a celebrity-obsessed autograph hound. It's loads of fun.

I came home from a party at 4:30 AM this morning with a friend and we watched the *Bright Eyes* . Jane Withers as the ironically named brat "Joy" is one of my all-time favorite performances.

Surely it's not her, but structurally her face resembles Stanwyck's.

Wow, a wonderful article.

Many of you guys are featured on "Now Playing: The Interstitial," which I saw for the first time today.

Guys, disagree with each other, but please stay civil. Personally, I don't think that Alec Baldwin's stint as the Essentials host (or Jane Fonda's Private Screening) has anything to do with their politics and everything to do with their take on the movies. I also don't think having Ronald Reagan as Star of the Month last month meant that TCM was celebrating his politics. I disagreed with much of what Reagan stood for as President, but still found it enjoyable to see some of the movies. If you expect celebrities to agree with your politics before they can entertain you, you're in for trouble. Elia Kazan made a horrible step in testifying before HUAC, but I still love *Gentlemen's Agreement* and *On the Waterfront* . I'd hate for your distaste for Barbra Streisand's politics to keep you from appreciating *Funny Girl* .

Fred, that was terrifying.