butterscotchgreer

I agree that both Funny Girl and Hello, Dolly!, played better on stage. But I hated Streisand, even more on stage, than in the film. Her performance was so languid, we actually thought she had fallen asleep a couple of time. On film, she has more energy. I dislike the piece, anyway, but there are better ensemble numbers in the stage version, which isn't completely focused on Fanny, every second. She's just not that interesting or engaging. By Act 2, you sort of wish she'd just disappear. Dolly! was just always better cast on stage. The film is completely miscast. Yet, it is my favorite film for its production values, and the score is still the great Jerry Herman score, and I love it for that. Even though Streisand is miscast, I prefer her as Dolly, because Dolly is a far more entertaining character than Fanny, who is an utter bore. But Streisand's biggest issue is she simply cannot act. She can only be Barbra Streisand, and even that comes off false and completely manufactured. You?re really raining on my parade, John. Heehee! I really loved Barbra when she acts, on stage or in a movie. She has a face they you can easily read; it?s simply packed with emotion, for me anyway. I would have absolutely loved to see her on stage for Funny Girl. I don?t understand why you don?t like her acting. And why do you think she was miscast in Hello, Dolly! I think she portrayed Dolly Levi with a great confidence. I have the broadway soundtrack with Carol Channing and thought she did okay, but I liked Streisand?s voice a lot better for Dolly. But I could be a bit biased.

Of COURSE I remembered you, little darlin!! Hope your day is a VERY happy one!!! THANK YOU KATHY!! You are too sweet for words! My day is a very happy one! Last night I got to wear my first ever pair of cowgirl boots to go two-steppin? and line dancing with my friends?.I hope Gary and The Duke are proud. Heehee! Here is a lovely party hat to wear, just for you You know, I?ve always wanted a princess tiara. Now I have one, Thank you Kathy! Ha.. well.. judging from what the Movieman wrote..HE is the Duke watching champion hands down. ha. (and PS: thanks for saying "YOUNG Lady" ha. I haven't been called THAT in a while. Likely since about a GAZILLION years ago when I was a young'un YOUR age.) I read it! Heehee! Music man Chris is always the champion! And you ARE a young lady! You will always be a young lady, especially if we keep up with these chats. PS: Here's a little cake to help you celebrate too!! I?m getting bombarded with desserts, which isn?t a bad thing! Mmmm yummy!! Is it vanilla or red velvet?

PS: Miss Scotchie.. HOWDY there you soon to be Birthday Girl!! Hey Kathy! You remembered that? That?s soooo sweet of you! HOWDY to you too! Missed ya! Lately, I am thinking I am being far outmatched by YOU, Mr. Grey, in terms of my love for all things "Duke". ha. I think you MAY have seen almost as many of his films now as I have. You don?t give yourself enough credit young lady?.Mrs. Quiet Man!

And Hello Dolly and Funny Girl were both way better on stage. Why do you say that? Which person who played Dolly Levi did you like best on stage? Same for Funny Girl. Did you actually get to see them on stage?

Hey Tikisoo! Nice to meet you! OK, I've loved musicals since I was a teen and they were considered unbelievably tacky and pass?. (like cartoons-glad the world has caught up to me) What? Tacky? Goodness me! Heehee! I break musicals into two groups: early b&w musicals (like Berkeley, Astaire/Rogers fare) and big color spectacles, most notably the MGM type. That?s an interesting way to break them into groups. Of the early stuff, I like it all, but have a soft spot in my heart for anything super silly by Busby or with Judy Garland. I delight in anything where Cagney dances too. Just recently caught the Cantor and Jesse Matthews bug too. The early ones are my cute and fluffy musicals. Yankee Doodle Dandy is definitely different, because you aren?t used to a happy go-lucky Cagney. Its like a breath of fresh air for a musical, but that year, I have issues with him winning the Oscar for his role in it, because I was torn for my other favorites. Such a tough year for favorites, 1942 was. As for big color musicals, my favorites are ANNIE GET YOUR GUN, SEVEN BRIDES & most of THE MUSIC MAN. I love the stories and how the songs fit in, almost the opposite of a Busby spectacle. And for Judy, I love A STAR IS BORN...good story and powerful numbers. Oooooh A Star is Born. There are soooo many words for this version. Judy definitely pours out her whole heart in this movie and really gave it her all. Her emotion is so ?powerful? in your wording and I there was a lot going on around her. It?s a great example of along, colorful musical. The Music Man has a soft spot in my heart for the song, ?Shapoopee.? Its just way too cute not to take notice of and it somehow stays in your head for days and then you find yourself singing it aloud with other people around you making these faces at you like you?re some kind of silly person?..gotta love it. heehee! Although TikiKid loves THE WIZARD OF OZ, she has that typical prejudice against musicals. I plan on showing her SINGIN IN THE RAIN, how could you not like that? And if that goes over well, CABIN IN THE SKY is next. I think those along with WoOZ and MARY POPPINS are the most accessible musicals for the novice classic film viewer. I don?t think there is a single person alive that doesn?t like Singin? in the Rain. It gives people such a dream world to escape to from the stress of real life. All those quirky numbers that make just about anyone smile even when having a bad day. I think if people see musicals on the big screen, they enjoy it much more. I saw AN AMERICAN IN PARIS and MY FAIR LADY in a theater and both were enjoyed by the audience more than I expected. I LOVE watching them on the big screen too, but I find it hard to sit through it, because there are other people around you and you can?t get up and sing along with the characters on screen. Heehee!

Hi ya T. Hiya silly willy! What has been your very favorite movie on the big screen so far? In my whole life? That would be Star Wars Why did I have a feeling you would say that? Heehee! I saw it when it first came out. I was probably thirteen. I couldn't recreate that kind of youthful excitement again if I tried. I don't think anything has compared to that. I still haven?t seen those on the big screen. I saw the new ones only because my grandpa wanted to see them to compare to the old ones. I'm too old to consider that a "classic" film though. That made me laugh! My boyfriend made me watch Rocky the other day because its one of his absolute favorites and he knows I like old movies. I had actually never seen Rocky, because it never striked me as my type of movies, but I really liked it, the love story in it that is. Heehee! Anyway, Joe considers it an ?old? movie, but I just looked at him and said, ?that?s not an old movie, silly. It was made in the 70s for pete?s sake!? and he answered with, ?I wasn?t even around in the 70s!??.I just cracked up and said, ?minor detail?.Casablanca?now that?s an old movie.? Then Joe says back, ?I don?t even know what that is; you?re really silly.??.tsk tsk tsk?. We have the funniest conversations. I saw Red Dust on the big screen many years ago and I was just blown away by seeing Gable and Harlow up there bigger than life for the first time.. It was very exciting. I would love to see King Kong on the big screen. I saw that one two summers ago and I was really excited to see it, but something was wrong with the reel, and it kept cutting off. Im glad you at least got to see it fully on the big screen. I bet it was fun! I know! I'm very slow on the draw. I hope they bring them back. Me too! Never start a newbie, particularly a guy, on Marie Antoinette when dealing with Shearer films. Start with one of the pre-codes. I didn?t even know Sammy watched Marie Antoinette. He watched it with his roommate and the next day asked me about it. I didn?t even know he knew about Norma! Heehee! Poor Norma! You?re telling me!

Hey Silly Larry! I spent an hour yesterday replying to this post, and I could have sworn it was posted, but I don?t see it on here. Hmmmmm?.guess I?ll have to try again. Heehee! I do get a little silly sometimes. My fault! Hey I'm going to cheat and reprint my list from a year and a half ago. We are all aloud to do that! I?m guilty as well. Here are my top ten favorites. This list is not in any particular order and is subject to change at any moment. There are many musicals still out there that I haven't seen yet and some I will probably forget to name. Your list is genius! I love the eclectic taste you have for some of the soft cute ones, as well as the harder, darker musicals. 3. Best Foot Forward - 1943 Buckle Down, Winsocki, Buckle Down!!! What a catchy tune! It stays in your head...well...forever! It's always back there somewhere drumming away. Lucy plays herself and makes fun of herself. That Nancy Walker could really jive! One of the first ones with Junie Allyson! I love the comic lines with Nancy Walker playing off of practically everyone in the movie. She was brilliant with her facial expressions and keeping people on their toes. I especially love the pairing of Junie with Gloria DeHaven in all their movies together, even when only cameoing together in musicals like Thousands cheer. I loved Lucy as herself also, but I felt as though she could have been given more lines. 4. Footlight Parade - 1933 Some great production numbers here. Cagney singing Shanghai Lil. I actually like Keeler in this one. A great Warner's cast. Blondell, McHugh, Kibbee, Herbert, Donnelly, some guy named Powell. Not many people take notice of this beauty of a musical. I love Richard Powell in this and he brings such a dynamic characteristic to the numbers he is a part of. 5. Easter Parade - 1948 - This one has always been tops with me. The only pairing of Astaire and Garland and both are perfect here. Ann Miller and Peter Lawford. Great nostalgic period piece. I love the feel of the title number at the end. One of my favorites! I wish Judy was in more musicals with freddy! They have such a different kind of relationship than most couples on the big screen. Its very refreshing to see it! It?s not the most graceful character relationship, yet not the most difficult. It?s somewhere in the middle and it?s so much fun to watch them react to each other?s actions and talking. Ann Miller is at her best with her musical number, ?Shakin? the Blues Away?. Its so playful and bouncy, she pulls it off perfectly. 6. Panama Hattie - 1942 Yes I said Panama Hattie !! Dag gummit!! I know I'm the only one who thinks this is a great movie. Let's see. You got Ann Southern, Skelton and Ragland, Alan Mowbray, Marsha Hunt and Dan Dailey. You have Virginia O'Brien singing (Did I Get Stinkin') At the Savoy and Lena Horne singing two, count 'em two, numbers; Just One of Those Things and, joined by the Berry brothers for The Spring. It's funny, with some great songs. A great way to escape your troubles. A very under appreciated WWII musical. I love the comic relief in this one and wish Ann Southern had done more musicals. I know she did a few, but she wasn?t exactly known for her talent in them. She was cast as the ditsy Maisie most of the time and Hattie, to me, proved her musical side. 8. Girl Crazy - 1943 I'll pick this one for my essential Rooney/Garland picture. I like the way they work off each other here, though I always like them together. Some great tunes and the story holds together well. At 99 minutes it's a little tighter than some of their other pairings. One of the few classic movies my mother will actually sit and watch with me. I can never get tired of Rooney with Garland. They are just sooooo cute together! 10. Cabaret - 1972 I'll end on a decidedly darker tone. Fosse just hits one out of the park here. Returning to the stagebound musical style, he gets a great performance out of Minnelli and she puts a lot of heart into those cabaret numbers. The film captures all the decadence and despair of Weimar Germany. It's funny, chilling and heartbreaking all at the same time. I completely forgot what I said about Cabaret when I first tried to post it. Heehee! But it is a musical that is teeming with emotion. At times in the movie, you don?t quite know whether to feel sad or happy, or both at the same time. You really feel for Liza in the fact that she loved ?Brian? and couldn?t have him because of a very distinct reason that tore her apart inside and out. I was supposed to be in a talent show a couple weekends ago for a birthday party and there?s this other girl we both knows who also loves musicals and broadway and wanted me to dress up like Liza and sing, ?Cabaret?, whiled she dressed up like Joel Grey. I was going to do it with her on one condition that I didn?t have to dress so risqu? like Liza did in that scene. I was blushing big time, but we had fun with it.

Hey Cinit-T! Hi there Baby T. I'm not such a musicals lover. My genre is noir...the "B"-er, the better. But I do love watching the Astaire-Rogers films. I think they were absolute sublime perfection. There are many individual musical numbers I love. And I really enjoyed "THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT." I know you really like your "B" movies, especially your noir movies...but thanks for commenting anway, it was quite sweet of you!...unlike FRANKIE who hasn't shown up yet to haunt me. Heehee! The three other musicals that I do enjoy are "CAMELOT" "WEST SIDE STORY" and I guess my favorite would have to be..."BYE BYE BIRDIE." Who doesn't LOVE Freddy Astair and Ginger Rogers together in their movies? Every single one of them! I can't live without them. I would miss their gracefullness too much...and their petty arguing before they actually fall in love every time. Heehee! Bye Bye Birdie has a soft spot in my heart, because I grew up with it and had the biggest crush on Bobby Rydell in it. I loved the "Goin' Steady" song. West Side Story still makes me cry. Every know and then, I'll randfomly break out in, "Puerto Rico...my heart's devotion." and get really into it. Heehee! It was a dark, very different musical for the time, yet its one of the best. [b[but now...I would loathe to see someone walking down the street in a movie, with their iPOD plugged in and just break out in song. No, I do not watch tv's new 'hit sensation' "GLEE."[/b] You know, everyone I know here thinks I'm crazy for not watching Glee. I have seen a couple episodes and it doesn't appeal to me either! it's way too overrated and they make fun of things i love in the show, not to mention its over-acted. Summer is winding down. I hope all my Ramblers out there are well and happy. ME Too!!! I'm smiling, are you? *Now where are my fedora and trenchcoat....* ...meanwhile, i'll break out in a dance with my ruby slippers.

Hey dahlink! Love your list! But I like what Chris is saying about Brigadoon. Heehee! When I was younger, I had no idea what anyone was talking about in the movie and didn't know what it was about. I really never liked Cyd Charisse, But she was very pretty, that much I remember thinking. "Brigadoon" I thought may have been the strangest film I ever saw. I had no idea the premise of the thing but I thought with Gene Kelly and Cyd Charisse it would be worth a look. (I have probably told this before but...) Watching I kept thinking "What were these people smoking?" It was bizarre. I thought if ever there was a movie to just watch the dance numbers this was it. HEEHEE! What were they smoking? Can I take a guess?

I am not a big musical fan but I do enjoy those like - This is so odd, Chris, you are the main musicman on here, yet you're not a big musical fan. Heehee! That's cute! Singin' In The Rain Top Hat Seven Brides For Seven Brothers Band Wagon Yankee Doodle Dandy and No, those are some of the most respected musicals, I love them! What do you think of the cinematography of Seven Brides for Seven Brothers? Edited by: butterscotchgreer on Sep 1, 2010 4:41 PM

1. William Wyler ~ {Mrs. Miniver, Funny Girl} 2. Vincente Minelli ~ {Meet Me in St. Louis, An American in Paris} 3. Alfred Hitchcock ~ {The Birds, Marnie} 4. John Ford ~ {Donovan?s Reef, Rio Grande} 5. Robert Wise ~ {The Sound of Music, West Side Story} 6. Frank Capra ~ {Meet John Doe, Arsenic and Old Lace} 7. Barbra Streisand ~ (just felt like throwing her in because i just had to. Heehee) {Yentl, Mirror Has Two Faces} 8. Busby Berkeley ~ {For Me and My Gal, Stage Struck} 9. Melvyn LeRoy ~ {Random Harvest, Million Dollar Mermaid} 10. Roy Rowland ~ {Two Weeks with Love, Many Rivers to Cross}

Love you list, Mongo! I just love it how there are so many cutesie musicals on it ....and then there's Cabaret, which is in itself a whole other category of a musical. Heehee! Nicely done!

Hey John!! I thought about you the other day when I watched Darling Lili on TV. Well, I'm not the fan of Hollywood musicals (I prefer them on stage) that you are, but the ones I love - I REALLY love! And the ones I hate, I REALLY hate. Well actually, I am practically just as obsessed with Broadway musicals like my musical movies. I love both equally! In fact I love watching them live with my favorite performers, but there is a big difference and I have the movies to watch for the rest of my life and enjoy. They will always be there for me for my comfort. Broadway only lasts for a couple hours when you are there, granted its a MARVELOUS couple of hours. Plus, when i'm at home watching my musical movies, I can get up and sing with them and dance to my little heart's delight....especially when noone's home so i can sing as loud as i want and put on my own little show. heehee! But I know how you are with your stage performances. The ones I love - I looove your list! How loverly! What are the ones you hate? im afraid to ask you of all people this question. heehee! I didn't realize you liked The Unsinkable Molly Brown as much. I remember seeing this when i was littler and being blown away by how debbie reynolds overdid a lot of the emotion in it, yet i really loved her as Molly Brown at the same time. I dunno, its like she was hard not to like. Heehee! The songs are cute too! What a surprise, Sound of Music is at the top of your list. heehee! that's okay im in agreement with you!

There?s no way on this earth I could pin point my top few favorite musicals, but what is everyone?s top favorites? I?d love to know! I guess I could scrounge up a good list too. heehee! Edited by: butterscotchgreer on Aug 31, 2010 8:20 PM

This is the place to chit chat about your favorite musicals. Musicals are sooooo beautiful and I grew up loving and cherishing every one I could possibly get my hands on. From The Jazz Singer (1927) to The Sound of Music (1965), we can babble on about all the wonders of music in and out of the big screen. After all, music brings about such creativity, happiness and emotion in our lives! Let us celebrate them!

Ha! I'm not surprised by his reaction (and rather relieved, in fact ). Heehee! Sammy always laughs at me..much like the dutch boy. I don?t know what it is that I do to bring such treachery on like this! Heehee! He's vulnerable alright, and on top of everything, his wife loses it, too, just when he needs her support the most. Hitch did a great job of showing how the system can crush fragile human lives. I don't think most people were or are prepared for Hitchcock to take on something so straightforward. Maybe that's why I like it. That?s one thing I do love about hitch. When these movies came out, no one ever knew what to expect. The Wrong Man is a great example of this. I didn?t particularly like how hitch wanted his wife to lose it quite like she did, nevertheless, I understood why it went through like that.

Well, it's nice he's looking into the films. Yeah, but he watched the Norma Shearer version of Marie Antoinette and said it was terrible. He actually got my mouth to drop for five minutes in front of him. It made him laugh a lot! He actually got me the other day about some B movie from the 40s?I don?t remember what it was called, but I looked it up everywhere and couldn?t find it. I think he made it up just to get me stuck. Oy vey! Ha! That's a great comparison of films! I never would have thought of comparing those two but they are similar! Very good. Well if you think about it, it?s just like Melody Jones with a more light-hearted approach. I really do like The Wrong Man, though, it really gives you a different side of Henry Fonda as an actor. It makes his character so vulnerable and you don?t usually see him in this sort of light, with the exception of a few of his movies, like On Golden Pond and The Grapes of Wrath. I like him in this kind of character. You feel for the poor guy and you just wanna help him some how.

Nobody asked me! Sorry, chris! You can come next time! Promise! It would be great to have another TCM-er to go to the movies with. Angie usually goes with me most of the time.

Hey dahlink! Well, what did your friend think of FRENZY? You should show him THE WRONG MAN (it's on TCM now). I love that one. Everyone seems to hate it, it's like Hitch's poor stepchild but I think it's a superior film in many ways. It's very frightening, too. I always think it's easy to put myself in Manny's (Henry Fonda) place...it could happen to anyone. Sammy liked it a lot! I told him about The Wrong Man. I gave him the list of Hitch movies playing on TCM for a couple months. He should be covered for a bit. Heehee! He liked Frenzy, not so much for the screenplay, but for the characters and plot. He thought it was ?unsually done for a hitch movie.? I haven?t gotten too much more out of him yet. We?re still talking about it. He isn?t familiar yet with all of Hitch?s movies, early and later, so he couldn?t really compare it to his other stuff yet. He has seen Spellbound, Rebecca, Rear Window, and The Birds and really loves them. I have been talking to him about Marnie quite a bit and he now wants to see it. You know, I wasn?t ever really that frightened by The Wrong Man. Okay, well a few parts of it have always disturbed me but you are right, it could happen to anyone, what he went through?.like Melody Jones?to a smaller level. Heehee!

Hey larry! I've seen quite a few of my favorites on the big screen over the years, Gable, Shearer, Harlow, Wayne, Bogart, Bergman, Astaire, but nothing recently. Despite having several restored movie palaces, classic films are rarely screened here in Richmond. Most of the old theaters have been converted to live venues and the one that still shows films exclusively operates as a second run theater. They used to have a fall classics series, which I loved, but that disappeared many years ago. I don't remember them ever showing one of Greer's films though. I know, some old theatres have done that in Austin too. The Paramount has been strong and stayed classy. It does show many famous people that come through town, though. Me and my grandma went to see Carol Burnett there when she came. I simply love it there and hope it never changes! What has been your very favorite movie on the big screen so far? A couple summers ago, I saw Funny Girl at the Paramount and I couldn?t stop crying and smiling all at once. That movie releases lots of emotion, I?m telling ya.  It has definitely become my favorite classic movie on the big screen, especially with Barbra singing with surround sound. We had one new theater that started showing some older films on Sundays but they stopped before I took advantage of it. Probably my fault that they stopped! I should have went sooner!! Tsk, tsk, tsk. Why didn?t you go sooner, silly? So, you folks in the bigger cities are lucky! Well at least I have you on my side when Frankie comes to town. Heehee!

Why Baby T. How have you been? Hope all's well. I've seen a number of classic films on the big screen, the last being "All About Eve" at NYC's Ziegfeld theatre, when TCM hosted an event there. Unfortunately I just blew the chance(s) to see some Hitchcock films at the Symphony Space. "Rear Window" and "The Birds" will be shown tonite. But another dream screening was to see "West Side Story" and "Psycho" at Radio City Music Hall's magnificent theatre. Wow! Hitchcock and Norman Bates, in all their glory. Hey Cinie-T! I?ve been all smiles and peaches n? cream! How are you? I?m SO jealous! I want to go in NYC?s Ziegfeld Theatre too! Heehee! I saw All About Eve and Rear Window last summer at the Paramount. Are you seeing those two movies tonight? I hope you have fun and let us know how it goes? Take good care Butterscotch. Im not leaving! Im still here, you don?t have to say bye, yet. Heehee!

You saw FRENZY at the Paramount?? You're a braver lass than I. I don't think I could have sat through it. Frank will be delighted to hear it! I've only seen The Searchers, Giant, Wuthering Heights and In a Lonely Place. Yeah, but that one wasn?t my choice. Heehee! A friend of mine from a big group I?m in is wanting to get into classic movies more and he likes Hitchcock, so I suggested he try going to this, even though I explained how I thought it wasn?t nearly his best piece of work. He really likes Spellbound, but they didn?t play that this summer. He always gets into these long conversations with me about old movies, asking me questions I have never even thought of before! Heehee! I think he does it on purpose, because he likes picking on me and getting into those sarcastic arguments when you get so engrossed in a detailed debate over something silly. Its okay, I pick on him right back. Frankie is never delighted with me. he just likes stealing my strawberry shortcake. Heehee!

Hi Theresa!!! Good evening friend!! I have been doing well. Thanks for asking. Well how cute! That?s great! OOh, I actually got to watch In a Lonely Place at the Paramount a couple weeks ago. Lucky!!! I had wanted to see it for the longest time on the big screen! I still have yet to see one of my Greer movies on the big screen. It?s so sad that no one ever recognizes her brilliant pieces of work. Have you ever seen any of your favorites on the big screen? It's even more terrifying on the big screen, watching Gloria be mean to poor Bogie. Heehee! Gloria's a sweetheart. An indecisive one, but still a sweetheart! Heehee! That tickled me! She could have been sweeter to Bogie, though.

Welcome back, T! What a great movie to see on the big screen. I got to last year and really enjoyed it. What else have you seen at the Paramount this summer? Hey dahlink! it's good to be home! I loved seeing Gloria on the big screen for a change. It was really exciting actually, and I got even more emotional than I normally do. I don't know, something about seeing old movies on the big screen makes them come alive for me. It'slike i'm actually there. I love it! There have been quite a few I have seen thissummer there.... *The Thin Man Goes Home* *Another Thin Man* *Splendor in the Grass* *Psycho* *Frenzy* *Breakfast at Tiffany's* *Roman Holiday* *Giant* *Adventures of Robin Hood* *Shane* *The Searchers* *Rebecca* *Wuthering Heights* *In a Lonely Place* *Broadway Melody of 1940* *The Band Wagon* *Captain Blood* *Bride of Frankenstein'Top Hat* *A Night at the Opera* *Ferris Bueller's Day Off* *Pretty in Pink* *Gentlemen Prefer Blondes* *Out of Africa* *Sunrise* ..and tonight I went to see *West Side Story*. I could have also gone to see *Wings* with Angie, but she went without me, because I had something going on that night, I don't remember what it was, though. Heehee! Oopsey! There are still going to be a few more before summer ends and then of course Gone With the Wind to close the summer series at the Paramount like they do every year. Tradition, naturally!

No. But I did watch Hollow Triumph the night before. I didn't like it. Why not? It's very much your type of movie. Someone told med you have every greer movie or something like that. is this true or dost thou ear not comprehend? You brainwashed me! GASP!! Just for that, i'm gonna tie you down and make you watch the video! Heehee! I'm sweet and innocent, remember? OOh, I actually got to watch In a Lonely Place at the Paramount a couple weeks ago. It's even more terrifying on the big screen, watching Gloria be mean to poor Bogie. Heehee!