FrankGrimes
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Posts posted by FrankGrimes
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*And I certainly understand how frustrating it can be for a guy to have to deal with this stuff... it is no less frustrating for a woman with some sense to deal with "keeping up with the Joneses" in a growing daughter. Like you, Mr. Favell prefers to skirt the issue by running up to his computer in the study.*
I've never been a parent, like you are, so I can only dream of what I'd do. For me, I'm all about creating self-respect and I believe this must be done by developing a sense of self versus following others with most everything.
I fully understand we all need to get along with our peers. We make friends through our similarities, not our differences. But there's no way I'm going to look to keep up with the Joneses with the superficial stuff. I don't care if "Joanie Jones" has this and that and we don't.
I don't want my daughter trying to be like Joanie because Joanie could end up getting into things and doing things I do not approve of. For you see, if your focus is on keeping up with the Joneses, you better be prepared for your daughter keeping up with everything. This is why I believe in creating self-respect and self-worth over being like the rest.
The problem with today is everybody believes in the materialistic. I don't. I believe it's empty and it creates selfish people who could care less about the important things in life, such as love and real feelings. I don't want a wife whose love must be bought. That's too cheap for me.
*I am glad you watched SSS! Yes, that's a story of "parental" responsibility gone horribly wrong in another direction.... ick! Poor Susie.*
I'll reply to your post in the "film noir" thread.
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Again, I wasn't criticizing the situation in *Pride and Prejudice*. As Miss G wisely points out, I believe it's more of a critique on the societal ways than the people. Society is creating this way of thinking and living. So Mrs. Bennet is simply doing as you say, looking out for her and her girls. It then becomes a competition, which you can still find today with women. And all of it is a horrible watch for this guy!
*Alice Adams* is different. I really don't think the Adams were scrambling for money. They seemed to be living quite comfortably. The problem was they weren't rich and didn't have extra money to spend on unnecessary stuff. It's only necessary if you are trying to live in a certain kind of world. We see this much more today than ever as everyone thinks of themselves as rich thanks to credit cards. Many are living outside their means.
The truth is, we men don't like to get in the affairs of women and girls. Too annoying. We only become concerned when we feel a guy isn't right for our daughter. We sometimes go way overboard with that, too. Ironically, I finished re-watching *Sweet Smell of Success* just last night. But if you're talking gowns and dances and dinner parties and weddings and... ugh! I'm going to the study... to watch sports!
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Hey there, Mrs. Coop -- *Grabs hold of the lapel on her jacket and attempts her best Jimmy Durante impression: IIIIIIn poi-sin!
* Wow! You're droppin' Durante on me! Impressive.
*You're a turkey, Frank. You know that?*
Not me! You must have me confused with someone else!
*That thread was pure awesomeness to its core; you're just jealous
*Never!
*No, she just happens to have acceptional taste when it comes to...well, everything! You should know that Frankie! Hehehe
*Gary Cooper, Greer Garson, Celine Dion is exceptional taste? Are you kidding?! Awful!
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Ciao, Snippy -- *I can't disagree. I just thought the whole egghead angle would be up your alley.*
What are you saying?!
Yes, I'm very eggy. I need to watch some Thundarr.*Five out of seven are noirs!*
What do you expect?!
*Two kisses, two doors.*
Oh heck, that's the story of my entire life!
*The story was the problem? Why? I thought it was just that it was an all-female picture that bothered you.*
Prison films all tend to follow a similar pattern. The new criminal is scared and in for quite a few eye-openers. They are befriended by some tough prison leader who teaches them the ropes. Eventually, they rise to a higher level of respect within the entire prison. Then you need to have a horrifyingly cruel warden or guard who tortures the lead and others but ends up getting their comeuppance. The only thing different with these films tends to be how it ends.
I will say that an all-female film does make me wary. Having said that, *Stage Door* is a film that I really like.
*I'm with Ro on this. The husband was a bit of a lay about. His whining got on my nerves. The mother was wrong at the bottom of it all because as you say, all her focus was on material things. But I don't see the father as a "regular Joe". Most "regular Joes" worked a lot harder than he did and had a little more self-respect. You take pride in your family and your home, not let it fall down around your ears like he did.*
I do agree with you, the dad was weak. I think he had self-respect for what he did, though. He was happy. The only time he was unhappy was when his better half tore into him about how he should feel ashamed for being nothing "important" and for not being rich. He should have gave it back to her. But he wasn't that kind of guy. I would have just said, "yes, dear, you are right, I'm pathetic."
I will say, he seemed to milk whatever his malady was. He seemed like a big baby with that. We guys tend to be that way.
*By the way, I liked the brother, too. He was hilarious the way he kept making fun of his sister's airs.*
Exactly! He knew how ridiculous it all was.
*By the time he'd made this movie, Hudson really had learned comic timing. He's very funny and I agree he's very funny in Send Me No Flowers, too. You should watch it, Hudson's hypochonriac is hilarious. "Doc...I have a pain every time I press here." "Then don't press there." Ha!*
What I saw of *Send Me No Flowers*, I really liked. I did get the Rock Hudson/Doris Day collection, so I will watch all three. Something tells me *Lover Come Back* will be my least favorite of the three. The reason I watched it first was because it was on your favorite 50 films list.
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Hiya, Spunky -- *However, I think maybe you and I, Frank, can agree that the family members, with all their faults, really did care about one another in the end, and came together to help each other. This is what I like in the story the best. They rise up frm the ashes of their personal disaster and learn something.... they take their medicine without squawking.*
Yes, we are in agreement. The ending is what saved the film for me. And the dad gets his old job back! Some nice lessons are certainly learned.
*I see how you can think it's a lot like Pride and Prejudice, but I see it as totally different - a family story , the type you usually like - how the family learns about itself - each of them get a good look in the mirror, and they see that*
*1. they have each been drastically wrong, to the point of delusion or destruction*
*and*
*2. they aren't all that bad after all. Once they see what they did wrong, they each attempt to correct the mistakes they have made.*
You're right, it is different than *Pride and Prejudice* in terms of the family lessons. I certainly wasn't saying the two films are similar in terms of story. It's just the entire social scene and marrying a rich guy made me think of *Pride and Prejudice*. Interestingly, I liked the dad in *Pride and Prejudice*. He knew the score but stayed in the background.
*And I personally think NO one could have played Alice except Katherine Hepburn - it was a brave choice to play her the way she did, because Alice is hard to like.... As an actress, it's always tempting to want to be seen in the best possible light. Hepburn is brutal, she shows all Alice's faults spectacularly well. without flinching. But it works opposite than you would think. Because of Hepburn's (and Steven's) clarity and harsh portrayal, Alice is also a really poignant character to me, very sad and lonely. It's one of my favorite of Kate's performances, she doesn't pull any punches.*
Actually, I liked Alice. I saw her as Arthur (Fred MacMurray) did. I liked the kind of girl she was. I only disliked her when she started to put on a front. And that's the point of the film. Alice is beautiful when she's herself and ugly when she's trying to be someone else. Having said that, I do find a girl who is trying hard to impress me to be very cute. It's funny what a girl thinks is going to impress you. The same can be said for guys with girls.
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Good evening, Burnt Toastmaker -- *(But alas I won't do a hard sell on you..ha. I am not even sold out myself.. because again.. I only watch on a pick and choose basis myself. But I doubt you will try that even.. ha..... because you are a stick in the mud.. this is like one of those."I don't want to eat my green veggie" moments for you.. you don't LIKE them.. because you won't TRY them, Mr. Saurkraut guy) ha. Ok.. that was the "mom' coming out in me. ha. Sorry to sound so mean... ok..no I am not sorry.. it was for you own good.. HA!)*
But I'm watching all kinds of movies! I'm not interested in watching television shows, though.
*I think she felt the same way about her OWN life.. she never got what she thought SHE should have had in life.. and she didn't want her daughter to suffer the same fate.*
Such suffering!
*She views marriage a LOT like the women in (ha.. oh you and your comparisons.. but they really do apply) the mother in P&P... it is not about finding a man you love.. it is about finding a "successful" man to marry. Then YOU are a success yourself. Bah.*
I completely agree. But it seems like she didn't marry for those reasons. She just seems to be caught up in wanting to be something "important." I'm like the brother: the heck with that.
*But having said that.. I do think she did love Alice.. and I also think (though it was VERY hard to see.. she loved her husband too.. somewhere in the midst of all that selfishness.. she did care for him. But OH me.. it was hard to see it.*
Oh, I think she loved her husband and her children. She just let the other stuff overtake that love. She's just as weak as her husband, but heck if she could see it. She's blind to herself.
*No.. it was worse than that. He just did not take it upon himself to be the head of his house. He was the breadwinner.. but he only did what he needed to get by.. and then let the mother more or less rule.. so long as life went by smoothly for him. He was (in that way) being as selfish as she was.*
You do make a good point. He was very weak. He chose to hide from his wife and cover his ears to her foolish demands. He should have shown more of a backbone and told her to knock it off. But he wasn't that kind of guy. Some of us guys don't like to play the "bad guy."
I had no problem with him being happy with his job and where he was in life. They seemed to be doing fine. I don't buy into his wife's reasons for his being a failure. They are way off. So many people undervalue contentment. It would be much different if the family was struggling to make it. But they weren't. It was more about moving from middle class to upper class. Blah.
*I liked that everyone else in the community (especially his boss) considered him a "good man" and he likely really was. He was just too "complacent" and willing to take as little initiative with his family as he needed to.. that is really all I have against him. He just sat back so long.. he didn't know HOW to be a good "head of the house" anymore. (if ever) When he finally did get to the point where he'd had "enough" of the henpecking and such.. it stirred him to move and "take charge" alright.. but he made a really bad choice about the way he moved.. and how he did it. And it all blew up in his face.*
He was out of his element. You don't marry a career woman and expect her to play house for you, if you know what I mean.
*See.. I did not see him that way at all. He wasn't some sort of "snob" you are right.. but he was also very much just out looking for a good time. He hung out with that "help" but that wasn't because he didn't care about their social standing.. he was just looking for a good time.. and shooting dice was his kind of fun. It wasn't about flying in the face of "proper society".. it was just about what sort of good time can I have for myself.*
But if he had a problem being seen with the help, he wouldn't shoot dice with them. He could care less about that. He openly says "hi" to the musician. Again, he's very comfortable with who he is. He's not worrying about what others are going to think of him, ala Alice. He's the opposite of her. Yeah, so he wanted to have his fun. I'm fine with that.
*Though I do confess some of the characters were a lot of fun (Mr. Grey.. i loved the old guys.. in a lot of ways they were more "3 stooges" than 3 Musketeers. ha.)*
They are called the "Three Musketeers" in the film. I agree, they are more like the Three Stooges.
*As for the main story.. there were the standard "stories" there.. the good guys were GOOD and the bad guy(s) were very rotten.. etc.. there was even a level of "conflict" to the romance (though to me.. that was really kind of ridiculous too.. she had NO clue, did she.. about what was going on.. duh)*
Wow! You sound like me! I do agree, it was pretty much standard fare for the era. But I did like the Fordian touches.
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Hiya, Piecemaker -- *Drum roll please.......... With COFFEE BREAKS (of course!)
* Very good! I like that one!
*No... I actually am not. ha. They are NOT the "Masterpiece" of yesteryear.. you might be surprised at some of their programming in recent years. Not all of it (at least from what I have seen in recent months especially) is so "Austen-tatious" as it used to be.. ha*
I'm not that crazy about theater. I sorely lack culture.
*I think she sees her husband as a failure.. and wants to spare Alice the same "misery" she has "endured" which to me is just awful.*
She surely does view him as a failure, and her only judge of that is that they're not as rich as the rest. So, in other words, she's judging the value of her man (and people) by money. That's a rotten woman.
*But to be honest.. Miss G did bring up a good point that she was not entirely wrong.. because to me.. the dad was not a failure.. but he was VERY willing to just let life go by and not really take his family's needs into consideration as he was doing it. Still.. I don't think he failed them or let them down.. he just did not really do much to lift them UP either.. he struck me pretty much as a guy who wanted to just enjoy his job.. then come home.. have a peaceful supper and read his paper.. and not really be bothered with the "details" of what was happening at home.. so long as everything stayed peaceful. That is no way to lead and provide for your family. So they were sort of both at fault in one way or another.*
I view that as the typical man from that era. Men in those days worked and then came home to relax. The woman served them in the home. The woman also did the parenting unless a voice needed to be raised. Most every guy from that time found a job and worked it for the rest of their life. They weren't thinking about striking it rich. They just wanted a steady income to support their family. So Mr. Adams' biggest crime is that he's a regular ol' "Joe."
*He was too MUCH himself.. because he was pretty much what his parents had made him as well.. he was selfish.. and did not really (for the most part) worry about what anyone wanted or needed but himself. (did you see the way the mom catered to him.. and pretty much let him have or do or say what he wanted.. except for taking Alice to the party.. he more or less had free reign. (although I will say there is one part where he is obviously sensitive to the hurt Alice is feeling and tried to cheer her up. even a little bit.. but moments like that for him are few and far between)*
I'd say this is very typical of the time, too. Boys are given more room while girls are tied more to the family and house. I just liked that he didn't give a darn about the society stuff. He'd rather shoot dice with the help. He even greeted the musicians as friends. He didn't view himself as some "better-than-you" snob. And that goes for money, social standing, or skin color. I liked him.
I can't remember but didn't he get in trouble for trying to help a buddy out? I'm sure it was a get-rich-quick scheme, though.
*And I would have NEVER put that together until you said it. but I DO see a comparison to many of her stories.. all about being "trapped" in one's social station.. and having to live through the pain of trying to figure out how to either stay happy there.. or break out.. and meanwhile you have a whole cast of characters telling you how to do it.. or not do it as you go along.. good catch. ha. (no WONDER you were not so fond of it..ha)*
The two big events in the film are a social (dance) and a dinner party. That's not something I look forward to attending or watching! The ending to the film is where I could find something I liked. That's where some good emotion shows up and a little testosterone. Before that I'm stuck in a "Pride and Prejudice" world.
*To be honest.. there were parts of that movie I liked a LOT.. but other parts I was just not really all that huge on. I think overall I liked it well enough but I have to confess.. it was NOT what I was hoping for altogether.. at least in terms of "like-ability"*
Like I said, *The Iron Horse* is a film where I find it hard to say who would love it. The lead's story isn't that strong. It's J. Farrell MacDonald who ends up being the most interesting.
The best moment in the film for me happened very early on. The scene I speak of is with Davy and his father. After that, everything is rather routine. Still, I found it enjoyable enough.
*Maybe if I watch again.. I will see it in a better light.. now that the "shiny" is off of it and I can see it more for what it is.. rather than what I was EXPECTING it to be. (does that make sense??)*
I think you'd come away with the same feeling. There isn't one thing to really latch onto.
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Howdy, Quiet Gal -- *Oh, yeah.. she is finding her "funny bone" lately for sure. Her latest new "interest" is joke book humor.. and making up her OWN jokes too. Way cute.*
*Here is my fave new joke from her (it is one she got from a book she checked out earlier this summer.)*
* How do you stop a run away coffee pot??*
She's got me stumped!
*This is true too.. and sometimes can be very life changing (sometime good, sometimes bad) when we finally learn there is a whole "side" to ourselves we never realized people see in us before.*
Such as snippy.
*I think it is always interesting to get to know others and maybe get some insight (in a friendly.. non-threatenting way) as to what makes them "tick". I am not saying I think it is ok to "mess with people's minds" or nose into their personal thoughts and attitudes, etc.. but it is fun to exchange opinions and ideas and such.. and the conversation starters you come up w/ sometimes are good for that.. other times.. they are just good for "slinging mud" ha.. (which I also enjoy.. so long as it is all very non-hostile and everyone is respectful.. oh and also.. so long as YOU get stuck w/ the hatpin somewhere along the line)
*Me?! What did I do? I'm sweet and innocent!
*That's it exactly.. and the reason I can say this is I know it to be the case for myself.. for all my "blabbage" ha.. I really DO try to put a lot of thought into "most" all the things I say.. especially when we are getting down into the mud.. ha.. but also other times too.. when we are just "blabbing". It makes me think even harder when I am trying to figure out the "whys" to one of the questions I am answering abuot a topic you (or someone else) has raised on here. I need that from time to time.. ha.. otherwise I might just spend all my time posting little tidbits about what the kidling has done or said.. or her latest JOKE.(Ha.) and I know that for some.. a little of that likely goes a long way.. but then.. probably so does a little of my "blabbage" on most any subject.. so having said THAT.. you folks are mighty nice people to put up w/ me for so long.*
I really like that you do put some real thought into what's being discussed. It's refreshing. You score major points with me because of it, too. That's not a good thing for you, though.
*I think you would be like me.. it probably would all depend on the "Masterpiece" they are showing at the time.. ha.*
Are you kidding?!
*USUALLY I roll my eyes at all that "game playing" she did and all the "reverse snobbery" even. (she assumed HE would not want anything to do with her.. once he found out she wasn't as good as the upper crust girls.. just because HE was upper crust.. that to me is "reverse" discrimination..*
Excellent point. And I plead guilty to this. I often jump to the conclusion that others will think horrible of me. But there's something good about this, too. When someone doesn't do what you expect them to do, you've got something.
*But I just felt so BAD for her.. It is just so aggravating and sad all at the same time. She wanted SO much to be anyone else but herself.. because thanks to her FAMILY (especially her mom) there was NOTHING she saw about herself or her life that was worthing showing to others.. very sad.*
*Oh me.. no wonder she was so messed up in the head (about how to just be herself) her mom spent all her time telling her that she should be unhappy because she ought to have better.. but didn't because her "life" just didn't measure up... (not that SHE was at fault for that.. but still) and her dad was so busy just trying to put up w/ the mom.. he never saw his daughter for who SHE really was as well either.*
That's superb, Ma Stone. You nailed it. Alice's mom (Ann Shoemaker) really is the problem. Her constant harping on Alice needing to keep up with the other girls to "compete for the boys" is what's creating this entire mess. That's a scary seed to plant. And I do find girls to be very insecure, much more than boys. They are constantly worrying about how they appear to everyone.
*(and then the BROTHER.. oh me.. what a doofball HE was) ugh.*
I liked him! He was at least himself.
*(Mini- SPOILER alert)*
*So yeah.. there was a lot of non-likeable stuff in that movie.. but here is where my "mush" factor goes on overload.. ha.. because wasn't that Fred McM quite a GUY!! He looked past ALL that "stuff" she and her mother and even OTHERS were trying to force him to "see"..and saw the real her.. and THAT is what makes that whole agonzing story worth sitting through (painful though it was.. sigh) All that agony is WORTH it just to get to that conversation they have on the porch at the end.. what a relief. ha.*
Wow! Look at you! You're getting mushy! I can see you going for a guy who likes a gal for who she is. I did like Arthur's (Fred MacMurray) line about the porch being where they belonged. I like that kind of "old-fashioned love." It's my kind of love.
*Anyway.. I am sorry you could not rate it higher. but I am not surprised either. It really is a hard movie to like in a lot of respects*
It's too close to Jane Austen for my tastes!
*I was actually referring to The Iron Horse.. you rated it about where I thought you would on that one too. (gee. I really AM getting better at this.. ha.. how did THAT happen??) :-)*
*Go ahead.. Peggy.. guess where I would rate it.. (or at least how I would rate it) I may suprise you..*
The way you phrase that makes me believe you don't like it too much. But, to be honest, I really wouldn't know which way you would lean with *The Iron Horse*. It's a film that I'd have a hard time guessing who would really love it, actually.
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*Whoa boy. Don't go overboard with the praise....
* I really liked *This Land is Mine*. It's more of a humanist film than a nationalist one, which I love. What I liked was how all the characters came to affect each other. Albert (Charles Laughton) compassionately explains all of this during his wonderfully-moving speech at the end of the film. Everyone is looking out for their own interests and this places others in harm's way, including those they love the very most. It's a form of cowardice. Albert's cowardice is open and outward, but many people's cowardice is inward. The are attempting to conceal it.Kent Smith played a great character. Terrific. Loved Walter Slezak's performance. He was pitch-perfect. So very "pleasing." I liked seeing Maureen's Irish temper. Beautiful. George Sanders was his exceptional self, playing a very "George Sanders" kind of a guy. And Philip Merivale was marvelous as the "voice" of the film.
*Did* *Alice Adams make you uncomfortable?*
I wouldn't say uncomfortable. I'd say I found it silly. I can't say I can associate with Alice and I usually dislike the entire society set stuff. I thought it was similar to *Pride and Prejudice*.
*When I first saw it, I didn't know whether it was great, or horrible. the scene at the dinner table is sooooooooooooo awful to sit through. And Alice's lies about herself can be very hard to watch when we know the truth of her life.*
I actually liked the dinner because I thought Virgil (Fred Stone) and Malena (Hattie McDaniel) were very funny. I also loved the shot of Arthur (Fred MacMurray) as a sweaty mess. That made me laugh.
*I'm really really surprised you didn't like Caged. Great performances, and a gritty story.*
I'm not a big prison film fan. They all seem to follow the same pattern.
*Tell me about what worked and didn't work for you in Broken Arrow?*
I thought it was a very ordinary story. It was too "easy." The conflict in the film seemed very minimal. Once the trust was established between Tom (James Stewart) and Cochise (Jeff Chandler), the film became rather uninteresting. That is, until the end. The ending saved the film for me.
*I think you hit the nail on the head with* *The Male Animal. It's a shame the comedy isn't more timeless.... it's very much of it's own time, and just doesn't translate to now. In fact, it's hard to take. But the idea behind the movie is great. It's too bad. I do like to watch it, and I love that the names of all the football players are from other nationalities. Jack Carson is super.*
The basis of the story is still very modern. College athletics and the overvaluing of it (money, prestige) still dominates, as does the want to squash certain topics on college campuses. All of that is still very prescient. I just couldn't get into Henry Fonda's character. If he were funny, I would probably like the film. But he's mostly serious with exception of his entire drunken "male animal" talk and fight. I just didn't find any of that to be funny. Jack and Eugene were mostly funny, though.
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*That is my overall feeling about it, I just thought YOU would react differently. It's not really my kind of comedy, but I do find it interesting and there are some funny lines. Jack is very good.*
Jack Carson and Eugene Pallette were funny. I did laugh at them. I couldn't get into Henry Fonda and I'm such a Fonda fan, too. The film was a mix of comedy and drama and I felt it wasn't a pleasing mix.
*When was the last time a movie hit your top 100? My goodness.*
The most recent are:
84. Sidewalks of London
87. Murder by Contract
55. The Naked Kiss
100. Secret Beyond the Door...
88. Reign of Terror
34. Kiss Me Deadly
90. Devil's Doorway
*Gee, I better watch it again, soon. I remember the ending being very sad but I'm fuzzy on the details.*
It's on TCM this Sunday at 10:45 AM.
*You didn't like/appreciate anything about it? I thought it was really harrowing and I thought Eleanor did a smashing job, considering she's such a delicate beauty and usually played such ladylike characters.*
Oh, surely. I liked most of the performances and the tough message. I thought Eleanor Parker was great. She looked good, too. I really liked Agnes Moorehead, Betty Garde, and Ellen Corby. Hope Emerson was exceptional, of course. But in terms of a story, it's just not one I could grab onto.
*I agree about Stone, I do not agree about her Mom though I do sympathize with some of her complaints.*
You would be all over your husband! "Why don't you make some real money?!"
*I thought everyone in it was great, it's just the way it was directed left me disappointed.*
This is not a Lizabeth Scott character that CinemAva would like.
*I always say, people really are individualistic when it comes to what makes them laugh.*
Ain't that the truth. What I laughed at the most was when Rock was playing dumb about not being around women.
And I loved his suit.
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*I got most of them totally backwards!*
No you didn't! You were on most of them.
*I can't BELIEVE you liked The Iron Horse AT ALL let alone more than The Male Animal (a comedy I really thought you'd like...Henry Fonda's character even talks like you).*
*The Iron Horse* is a very solid picture. It's mostly entertaining. The emotion is all right. J. Farrell MacDonald is very good. "The Three Musketeers" are very Fordian.
I was disappointed in *The Male Animal* because I didn't find the humor to be that funny. I liked the message of the film, of course. I'd say Jack Carson is the star of the show. He was terrific.
*And I'm staggered you like Vivvy's little "busker" the best...and pleased! But is it for her or because of Laughton's complicated desperation and pathos?*
I absolutely loved this film! It actually made my top 100 of all-time (#84). I was blown away by the emotional turns. Why did I love it? Charles Laughton's "Charlie." I just love the entire set-up. He's a 39-year-old man who has found his "star." But it turns out, she's not his star. The ending is very powerful. I was in tears.
*I supposed Alice and* *Caged were just too "female" for you to take. I can understand.*
For the most part, yes. I'm not that big on prison films, as a rule.
*Alice Adams is the ultimate coming-of-age-in-a-small-town story for girls. Any girl who's wanted to fit in with the "in" crowd and who has ever felt ashamed of her own home/family can totally identify. With guys...well, I think you probably reacted like Fred MacMurray does.
*Yes, I felt like Fred.
*Alice Adams* feels like a "Jane Austen" flick. The best thing about the film for me was Fred Stone, who played Alice's father. He was sensational. And Alice's mom was you!*I've got* *Murder by Contract in my "queue" at Netflix, so I have no idea whether I'll like it. Reading the synopsis is what made me think it was one you'd like.*
You won't like it one bit. I can't see any of the "Ramblers" liking it.
*I look forward to you and Jackie talking about* *This Land is Mine. She must be beaming that you rate it so highly.*
It's a very nice film.
*I'm afraid I was baffled and disappointed by* *Silver Lode. I wanted to like it SO much. Maybe my expectations were too high. I loved everyone involved, I just felt let down. Except that girl from Howard Hawks' movie* *To Have and Have Not...Dolores Moran I think is her name? I liked her character a lot. She had the best lines. Dolores to Dan Duryea: "We did that {bolted the trap door} to keep the rats out. Guess it didn't work."*
Dolores was playing you! I was mostly disappointed in *Silver Lode* because I had high expectations with it. But since I like this kind of story and I love seeing Dan Duryea putting on a show, I ended up still liking it. I like the twist at the end.*And poo on you for not liking my favorite of the Day/Hudson comedies. Tony Randall makes me scream he's so funny! I don't know why I don't list him among my favorite comedic actors all the time...I forget about him yet he's given me more huge laughs than most.*
Tony Randall is very good in *Lover Come Back*. I just didn't find much of the film to be funny. I really didn't like the ending. I've seen parts of *Send Me No Flowers* and I thought that was hilarious. I'm gonna have to watch that one. The funniest part of the film for me was the taxi (?) ride.
*So you liked* *The Road to Glory a little better than I thought you would, I'm glad. A fellow member of the SSO pointed out that it's a remake of a French film that he felt was much superior. Hawks kind of molded the story to suit his usual interests (group dynamics, professionalism, etc) but what bowls me over is the tragedy of it. It's so un-Hawksie. Or I should say, he would generally cushion tragedy in his later films with lots of other things.*
It's pretty doggone interesting. It's rather similar to *Fort Apache*.
*Oh and just to side step back to Hitch...what does your "litmus" say about the fact that I'm really a huge fan of both* *The Wrong Man and* *I, Confess? In fact, I think* *I, Confess is my favorite Clift performance after* *Suddenly, Last Summer.* *The Wrong Man fills me with fascination and horror at how easily someone innocent can fall into the machinery of the system and get ground up. It's a story that's been done a lot since, but this version holds a grim power over me.*
That's another one that blows up the litmus test! *The Wrong Man* and *I Confess* are very serious films, even though *I Confess* has a love story. I'm always surprised to hear anyone really likes those films.
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I'm very impressed, Miss Gun For Hire! You did great!
1. Sidewalks of London (8)
2. Murder by Contract (1)
3. This Land is Mine (4)
4. Silver Lode (5)
5. The Road to Glory (9)
6. Broken Arrow (3)
7. The Iron Horse (11)
8. The Male Animal (2)
9. Lover Come Back (7)
10. Alice Adams (6)
11. Caged (10)
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Good evening, Peggy -- *HA!! We go around calling each other that name at our house a LOT lately.. but not for the same reason (we do it because of the doofy credit card commercials.. the kidling thinks they are a "hoot".. ha) So "Peggy" would not be a new nickname for me.. (or the QT.. or even my DAD!! ha.. What can I say.. lately she has started calling ALL of us "Peggy" ha)*
That's great! You've got yourself a little comedienne!
*(Oh wow.. true confession time NOW for sure.. that's what it all boils down to.. I hate being pegged, ha).*
Lots of people do. What I have found is people are afraid to be labeled something, and rightly so. With me, I just like learning about people. Once I learn them, I can relate to them better.
*And I get that too.. I just think that sometimes the "whys" behind the way we lean are not always easy to define.*
Completely. Like I said, a litmus test is "shorthand." It takes discussion to start to understand people better.
*Very true... we are usually one three people most of the time.. who OTHERS think we are.. who WE like to think we are (or at least pretend ourselves to be) and who we REALLY are in fact. (and it is nice when all three of those pretty much line up equally... but truthfully.. it is often rare as well) But I think that most folks do "know" themselves for who they really are (even if they like to deny it.. to everyone including themself)*
Perfectly said. I completely agree. Although, I will say that many of us are blind to some things about ourselves. It's not because we are trying to hide from it, it's that we just don't realize it. We can be very unaware of who we are with some things.
*This is really all pretty interesting, you know.*
You think so? For most, it's fingernails on the chalkboard.
*I said this not too long ago..but you are good at sparking interesting conversations like this (or is it stirring up trouble, ha) Because if nothing else these sorts of chats make me sit back and really examine what it is I DO enjoy about movies.. and then I can consider what some of the reasons are behind those "leanings" (even if that was not your original intent for THIS conversation..ha).*
I'm glad you feel that way, Quiet Gal. You make an excellent point, too. Not only can we come to learn about others, we can learn about ourselves.
*OH PS: re: Austen.. no...not childhood. I don't even think I have ever even read one of her books. (gasp.. I know) Mostly just from watching movies over the years that were made from her stories.. OH..and PBS, ha.. gotta love "Masterpiece Theater") :-)*
Wow! That's great! You have defeated the litmus! I would have not guessed you to be a "Masterpiece Theater" gal. I see that as Jackie. Do you think I'm a "Masterpiece Theater" guy?
*Hey.. I may invent a NEW litmus test of my own..ha. Maybe I will see how you rate all of them and then I can maybe see how the two (or maybe three) on there that I HAVE seen rank in your list (among the other ones) and then I will read what other folks think about all that..ha.. and maybe THEN I can figure out based on all of THAT data.. ha.. which one of these I need to look into myself!*
Isn't that how you usually do it?!
*But I will say that I think (lousy at this as I am) that you likely were not "huge" on either of the two films that I am most familiar with.. maybe liking one of them a bit more than the other.. for completely different reasons but not really "loving" either of them much.*
I know *Alice Adams* is one of the films. I'm guessing the other is *Broken Arrow*.
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Howdy, Denver -- *It's funny how we can watch the same scenes and get something a little different out of them.*
It looks like we are interpreting their words differently.
*When he tries to kiss her, she gently rebuffs him, saying "Not when I'm on the job. I won't be able to concentrate if you kiss me" which is not the terrible rebuff you make it out to be. Granted, this has happened before, making it frustrating for sure. I do understand that.*
Joan is nothing but gentle, but that doesn't make it any easier on a guy. And the way Larry says, "now," you are left with the impression there are mounting denials from Joan. And, by the way, the person I relate to the very most in this triangle is Joan. I'm one who denies.
*I didn't see her tearing herself down at all. I did hear her say, "I don't like your 'little woman' either." meaning his job, which takes him away from her as well. I didn't see it as a cut down of herself.*
I took her words to be a shot at herself. She's very aware of her turning down Larry four times in a row.
Larry: Ehh, it's the fourth time in a row.
Joan: I know. I don't think much of your girl, either. (She laughs)
I don't think she is referring to their jobs as "your girl."
*Yes, it's frustrating, but if he really was in love with her, nothing would have gotten in his way - not Diane or Joan's job. He certainly wouldn't have fallen for Diane so easily.*
So the question becomes, are we to wait forever for one person to finally accept our love?
Here's the entire conversation:
Larry: Now I'm not even supposed to kiss you?
Joan: Not when I'm on the job. I can't concentrate.
Larry: Not when you're out with a pigeon, to me. (I couldn't make out that line)
Joan: These girls are parolees, Larry. Not convicts.
Larry: Excuse me, excuse me. Parolees. How about a drink?
Joan: I can't. I'm sorry about dinner.
Larry: Ehh, it's the fourth time in a row.
Joan: I know. I don't think much of your girl, either. (She laughs)
Larry: (I'll have another martini, Jim.) Baby, I don't know what I'm going to do with you. Most kids say, 'I think I'll be a countess when I grow up. Or a fireman or Jane Russell.' But not you. No. You said, 'when I grow up, I'm gonna be a parole officer. I'll never have dinner with the man I love because I'll always be out eating with a pigeon.'
Together: Parolee.
Larry: What do I have to do to get you to marry me? Rob a bank?
Joan: I don't think that would help.
Larry: I've been waiting a long time, Joan. Why don't you marry me and take me out of all this?
Joan: (spoken hushly) Larry.
Larry: Okay. I'll stop bothering you.
Joan: If you stop bothering me, I don't know what I'd do.
Larry: Then, don't you think you're being awfully silly, throwing me out in the open market like this? I'm telling you, I'll be snapped out like hot cakes.
Joan: I'll have to take that chance.
As you can see, Larry is wanting to marry her. He even goes as far to say "I'll stop bothering you." This tells me this has been a point of conflict between them for a while. He wants to marry her and she keeps pushing him away.
It seems like Joan is taking Larry for granted. She wants him how she wants him. Larry wants a commitment. That's not what Joan wants.
*Later, she talks to him of the poetic nature his writing is taking... she is thrilled, and thinks maybe he really is more in love with her than she assumed, and ready to settle down. She says to him, "This sounds like the words of a man in love, if I didn't know you better." and then she brings up the proposal. She has a glimmer that he is now ready to settle down. This spoke volumes to me, while you did not notice it. To me, this line means, "I was looking for a sign from you that you were really in love with me and wanted to take the next step, not just with anyone, but with ME." She misunderstands of course, he really was inspired by Diane.*
Joan definitely has a glimmer in her eye after reading what Larry wrote. She then says, "I've been thinking about what you said the other night... " He doesn't acknowledge her. She's regretting that she blew him off and wants to do something about it. The problem is, he's found Diane. He warned her, though. And she acknowledged the warning.
*Does that include someone who pours themselves into pleasing one person, their mate, without any other outlets for creativity or whatever is inside them? Because I worry that Diane will do that, to the exclusion of everything else. What would be thrilling is if Larry and maybe Joan helped her to have a more balanced life, one that made her sure of herself in situations outside the home.*
Absolutely. Joan is all about her job and Diane is all about her feelings.
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*Not hardly...
* Actually, I loved getting massacred by the *Wagon Master*. I loved what you wrote about one of your favorites.
*I'm thinking of some of our more recent discussions...I sometimes have a hard time finding the time to go back to a movie, or I don't always have a copy at hand, so I go from memory. It's tough to argue a point if you don't have photos or a re-viewing to back it up with.*
I'm definitely aware of this and I do apologize for being so damn lawyerly. I just love to delve with smart and caring people. I end up gaining a lot.
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Ha! Yeah, right! I'm still bruised from *Wagon Master* ! I was massacred!
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I'll get to your post later, Peggy.
But I felt this was a good time to post this. I promised Miss G that I'd post the last 11 films I've watched. I wish for her to guess how I liked them, in order. Now I know you probably haven't seen all of them, but you can go ahead guess on those you have seen. And if anyone else wishes to guess, or just mention if they like/love a film on the list or not, go ahead and do so. All of the other discussions can continue, as well. I don't wish to interrupt any of them.
Here are the last 11 flicks that I've watched:
Alice Adams
Broken Arrow
Caged
The Iron Horse
Lover Come Back
The Male Animal
Murder by Contract
The Road to Glory
Sidewalks of London
Silver Lode
This Land is Mine
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Oh, Silly Goose, I've seen it a couple times. But I know better than to talk about a film without watching it before doing so.
I don't care how many times I've seen a film, I need a fresh viewing to keep up. -
*So having said ALL that.. ha.. I guess I am getting down to the thought that as interesting as litmus test is (in terms of finding out what folks might like or enjoy) at best it is going to be just a very "rough" indicator of what their movie watching preferences might be.*
The litmus tests for me are to find out about the person more so than what movies they like. It's the reverse of that. It's what movies a person likes can help you figure out who they are as a person.
As for your own level of mushiness, of course I know you possess the "mushy." It's never about the extremes. Nobody is all one thing. It's about leanings and levels.
Also, many people will tell you they like something, but when it comes to an overall picture, those likes may place lower. For example, I can say I love classic comedies, but when you see the overall picture of what I like, you're not gonna find many classic comedies. Some, here and there, for sure, but they don't show up like other kinds of films.
I feel lots of people like to see themselves in a certain way because they want to be seen in that way. For whatever their reasons, they want to be identified as such. But what they wish to see with themselves isn't always the truth about themselves.
I did know you were a Jane Austen gal. And, yes, that really does surprise me. I'd love to know how you came to like Austen. Childhood?
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*You like 'em both. But can you choose which actor you prefer over the other?*
Actor: Jimmy.
Characters: Cary.
Since you are asking for actor, it's Jimmy.
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*Has anyone here discussed The Sweet Smell of Success ? I was watching the last half, today, wondering how come I've never seen a conversation here about it. I probably missed it.*
I'm not sure. But I'll watch it this week.
*Why is it that I like Sydney Falco?*
Because you are you!
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Heya, Meanie Mint -- *Do I really look that mean?
:D *Yes!
*Frenzy isn't funny!*
Yes, it is! Not the entire film, but it has some hilarious scenes. The final line is very funny.
*I just took that friend of mine, Sammy, to go see this on the big screen at the Paramount and he thought it was funny too....you're both weird!*
I know I'm weird! It's good to hear Sammy has a Hitchcockian sense of humor.
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Hola, Bronxilla -- *FRENZY is rancidly compelling.*
It's yet another Hitch film that I find very funny. I also love the direction and the ending.*I'm always amazed by Hitchcock's intuitive and sophisticated ability to plumb the depths of human relationships -- male/female, parent/child.*
I'm always amazed by your writing ability! You have a terrific vocabulary and use it exceptionally well.
You're very right about the psychology of Hitch. There's some real depth to be found in his movies, including his "popcorn."
*Not a Tippi fan. I would have preferred Grace Kelly in MARNIE, and anybody else in THE BIRDS.*
I like Tippi. I can see where she can get on one's nerves, though.
I can't see Grace Kelly as "Marnie." I see her as being too soft and delicate. There's a harshness to Tippi. When she tells you "no," it comes across strongly.
*It's not Marlene -- the problem with STAGE FRIGHT for me is Jane Wyman. I just can't believe she's Alastair Sim's daughter, lol. And I'm all too aware it's Jane Wyman-doing-Hitchcock, if you know what I mean.*
Oh, I see. I basically view the film as Hitch's "Nancy Drew."
*Yeah, I enjoy ROPE, except for Jimmy Stewart's performance. He's just so serious, and makes me nervous, lol.*
That's funny! It really is a different kind of Jimmy.
*Valli's performance is what keeps me coming back to THE PARADINE CASE. Gregory Peck is hopeless, lol. His character's obsession with her reminds me more of REBECCA than VERTIGO. Peck is "The Girl" (Joan Fontaine) fascinated with the glamorous, mysterious first wife.*
Now that's really interesting. So do you think Anthony Keane (Gregory Peck) is fascinated with the deceased Colonel? I think he's fascinated by Mrs. Paradine (Alida Valli). He's obsessed with her and his wife knows it. His playing "detective" at Hindley Hall was to find out about Latour (Louis Jordan) because he wanted to know if he was her lover. He's a "bedroom detective."
*Otto Keller in I CONFESS is one of Hitchcock's memorable human monsters but the film itself is ponderous and uninvolving, especially the relationship between Baxter and Clift.*
*I just didn't care. And I thought Karl Malden didn't belong in a Hitchcock story, lol.*
You're right, Karl Malden doesn't seem like "Hitchcock." I usually find anything that deals with clergy to be ponderous.
*TORN CURTAIN seems stale to me. Lila Kedrova also overacts, but, that's nothing new. Newman and Andrews are another "wholesome" couple caught up in sinister circumstances, like Stewart and Day in THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH, also Cummings and Lane in SABOTEUR.*
Great comparison! I think you are right, that Hitch was probably looking to make an offshoot of *The Man Who Knew Much*.
*As for NORTH BY NORTHWEST, it's not so much the overexposure, but the fact that it's...I don't know...too perfect? Too slick?*
It is definitely "slick." I like Miss G's calling it a "movie movie." But I do like it a lot.
*I can't watch SABOTEUR without snickering, because Bob's encounter with Priscilla's uncle reminds me so much of Boris Karloff and the hermit in THE BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN.*
It is! It really is! I like that scene, though.
*Like SHADOW OF A DOUBT, SABOTEUR is a "love letter" to our country, glorifying and exposing the light an dark aspects of the American dream within the political context of the times, and we can of course extrapolate on the universal human condition.*
You know, I never thought of that. That's an interesting love letter, since Hitch was basically saying we've got our heads in the sand because we are either happy or bored in our little world and this selfishness occupies our attention. Interesting.
*I'm loving TO CATCH A THIEF more and more. I don't care that much about Cary and Grace's relationship. I just soak up the French Riviera ambience.. And I enjoy the mystery element, too.*
And I'm the opposite! The entire reason why I like the film is the Cat and Francie. I absolutely love them as a couple.
*Did Hitch think UNDER CAPRICORN was just a "costume" drama? Its themes are quite modern.*
What are the modern themes?
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Hiya, Mrs. Cooper -- Is this really you?! It can't be!
*Where'd the Coop group go? It's been forever since I've wandered around through these TCM halls so I kinda have to get used to it all over again.
*Oh, no! I must run to the Coop bomb shelter! Sanctuary!
*By the way, GREER IS THE BEST! COOP, COOP, COOP! ...What other actors can I torture you with chanting the names of?*
Wait a minute! I knew it! Butterscotch offed the real Mrs. Cooper!
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The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread
in Your Favorites
Posted
I don't disagree with anything you said, Fordy Guns. Mr. Adams did sit on his rear too much. So you've all helped me to see that. He should have taken more pride in himself and this would have helped him take more pride in his own home. You were all right to point out he needed to stand up to his wife more instead of looking to hide from her. I think he did that because he knew she was more right than wrong with her criticisms of him.
And you are right about his kissing his boss' rear too much. But I believe he was afraid to rock the boat. He was a meek man. There's no getting around that.