FrankGrimes
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What's the word, Lively Gal -- *VALENTINO GRIMES*
**You must be at the pub!
*I think I know what Jackaaaaaay means. (Correct me if I'm wrong Jaxxxx). I think we would have liked to see just a moment of transition from Bobble-Head O'Keefe, of being rebuffed by Paula (Lizabeth Scott) to checking out this new girl Diane (Jane Greer); just a brief moment of piquedness in his decision to take this nurse out.*
Larry didn't pay any attention to Diane at the hospital. He called her advances "obvious." He wasn't interested in her, so he really wasn't looking to find another woman or even some action. I think his words to Joan about being "thrown out in the open market" are meant to be a form of a threat. I really don't think he was looking to leave her.
At the hospital, Diane goes after him... hard. She's doing all she can to to be asked out on a date. She eventually wins out. End of story? No. Larry ignores her at the race track. He's really not into her. She's just a date to him. But that all changes when she opens up to him outside of her apartment.
*Their priorities were different. But I think Paula (Lizabeth Scott) had more going on in her life, as a woman, than Diane had going on in her life. Paula's holding down a job, and must be accountable to the State and to these gals. Diane's raison d'etre seemed to be to hook up with a guy. Work? Naaaah. That was just a means to an end...so I see a broader scope in Paula's worldview.*
This is true. I understand what you're saying. But I think if you really love someone you can make it work. If you want to. That's what I meant about assigning values to things in your life.
*That was nicely said Grimesy. I think Diane has to love herself first, so she can trust that she IS lovable and worthy of love. This trust will help her believe she will not be abandoned.*
Brilliant! That's definitely how I see Diane. She was abandoned by her parents at age 11 and her first run in with the law was when she was 12.
*I don't know that I'd use the word deprivation, but I believe with balance...I think Paula can have a fulfilling life and not just one where her job overwhelms everything else.*
You would think so, but something is keeping her from doing so. The reason why I used the word "deprivation" is because I believe many people who pour their life into one area end up depriving themselves. The constant need to be responsible also leads to some deprivation. You're gonna hear the words "I can't" a lot more.
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Bonjour, Madame Bovary -- *That's true, but I didn't see his frustration much. People are human, and he might have had a moment of "to hell with her...I just want to have someone to go out with right this minute". I would expect it in fact, if he was that frustrated with the situation.*
Larry's (Dennis O'Keefe) frustration is evident, it's just he tries to laugh it off since Joan (Lizabeth Scott) is laughing about her being a horrible woman.
When we first meet Larry, Joan pushes away his kiss. And his reaction to her pushing away his kiss? "Now I'm not even supposed to kiss you?" Those words speak to his being constantly pushed away. They are words of frustration.
Joan then says, "I'm sorry about dinner." His reply? "Ehhh, it's the fourth time in a row." More frustration. She then tears herself down, so she knows what she is doing to him. He goes on to speak of her "dreams as a little girl, saying, "... and I'll never have dinner with the man I love because I'll always be busy out eating with a pigeon."
He eventually says, "I've been waiting a long time, Joan."
So everything points to Larry and Joan being like this for a while and he's wanting them to take the next step. He's frustrated.
*He didn't really mind letting things slide a bit with Joan. He wasn't so deeply into Joan that he couldn't sleep or eat or anything. They just weren't really a good match. Comfortable, like you said, as if they had already been married for years. More friends than lovers, it seems to me.*
I think Joan kept him at bay. You see how he reacts to Diane. He turns romantic. And Joan takes notice of this.
*In fact, I think she was more into him than he was into her, it's just she carried her love deep under the surface, and didn't let it get in the way of doing her job. She would never be late to work because of a man, and I wouldn't expect her to be. But that didn't mean she didn't love him.*
Yet, she puts her job on the line for Diane because she (Joan) does love Larry. Joan just couldn't pursue love for herself. This is where Miss G's comparison to Tom Doniphon rings true with me.
*And I felt something else between the two of them - I've known tons of guys who said they wanted to marry me, or even to go out with me on a steady basis, but the truth is, when push comes to shove, they aren't really that eager to settle down. I can't tell you how many have said something like "If you ever get divorced, come and see me." But they don't really mean it.....It's a line, and once the line works, their interest wanes. I get the impression that he thought Joan was refreshingly bright, and that he was one of these guys who tried a line on every woman he meets. Joan didn't fall for it, and kept him at arms length because deep down, she knew he was just a fooling around kind of guy. And with her, he kind of was. I think her "arms-length" position actually may have kept him interested for longer than he would have been had she rushed into his arms.*
He's still interested in her despite of her constant refusals.
And if she only saw him as a "fly-by-night" guy full of lines, I can't see her loving him, then.
Did she love him more than he loved her? That's hard to say. What's a person to do if their love is always pushed away? Joan would have him wait forever. This makes love very one-sided. It's all on her terms, then.
*I do think that both of them were deeper than the other one thought. And that's why they weren't really meant to be together.*
I do see them as you do, more friends than lovers. I think Joan liked his being there for her.
*Diane is nothing if not inventive, so she could probably keep him, as long as she saw when he was losing interest. She truly needed him, but need is a tricky thing.*
She wanted him. She set out to get him. At first, I think she did so as a challenge. She hated the feeling Joan was giving her, that Joan was better than her and knew what was right and the right way to go about it. Joan certainly doesn't know the "right way to go about it."
Through her time with Larry, Diane started to feel a trust coming from Larry and this helped to relax her and make her feel better about herself. As Diane says about Larry, "he treats me like I'm a somebody." That's really important.
I found Larry and Diane's first date to be very interesting. He wasn't paying any attention to her. He was spending the time talking to the guys. She was basically invisible to him. But when she opens up to him before saying goodnight it created a spark inside of him. She was letting him in. You get the feeling that Joan never lets him in. And, yeah, you could take that a few ways.
*He might feel choked and smothered at some point - then Joan will look good to him.
*Boy, is that ever true. It can be difficult to keep a clingy relationship going. A relationship of convenience would start to look better.
*I think for a lot of men, they would love to be in Dennis O' Keefe's shoes, forever. The perfect relationship - a threesome.*
So long as we're not married!
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Hey there, Spunky -- *I don't understand why Dennis went out with her in the first place. A better actor might have shown him a little frustrated with being put off by Joan all the time, and deciding at that minute to get back at her somehow.*
I don't think it's a matter of getting back at her. I don't believe that's his thinking. I just think Joan (Lizabeth Scott) kept him at a comfortable distance for her and he wished to be closer. That's what can happen with two people in love. One is hot-to-trot while the other, for whatever their reason, goes at it slow.
*But O'Keefe was OK, I liked that you coul see that Greer would be all for Dennis - he was her world, pretty much. You can see that he likes a woman who will make him the center.*
That's a very good point. Many guys do wish to be the center of a woman's attention. Also, I think he wanted his affection returned. That can be another tough thing to handle in a relationship. If one is constantly showing affection for one while the other doesn't return it, it can become tiring and frustrating for the affectionate one.
*Lizabeth had a much broader scope to her life.*
I think it's priorities. We all assign values to things in our life. Her priorities are different than his.
*I just hope he doesn't end up getting all bored with the drama. Diane is too fragile to take a rejection from him....she might go over the edge. I see a good film noir in the sequel....*
Brilliant! I believe you are right on it. Diane is about passion (Jane Greer) and Larry (Dennis O'Keefe) tends to be a mix. Can he keep the passion flowing with Diane? That's a very tall order. Joan is built more for love, it's just she cannot express that love. She seems very unsure of love, yet she feels the pain of it.
It's a very interesting triangle with two different kinds of woman. There's the slow, professional approach to life (Joan) that leads to deprivatin and the fast, impulsive approach (Diane) that leads to indulgence. Each has their dangers.
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*So hopefully I'm not your kind of woman, lol.*
Like I'd wear a tie!
*Ah, you are perceptive. Yes, I guess I lean toward the "female" Hitches, the more "traditionally romantic",*
"Traditionally romantic" is a very good way of putting it. You tend to like literary films, overall. Quite a few of your favorite Hitch films are a "good read."
*as opposed to the complicated and dare I say, perverse attractions of NOTORIOUS (Cary Grant's character really bothers me) and VERTIGO, both superior films but they leave me emotionally chilled.*
I view *Vertigo* as a commentary on the obsessive side of the male sex drive. I do see it as being perverse. But since I'm a guy, I understand that perversion.
You seem to have the same reaction to *Notorious* as CinemAva, although she seems to have warmed to the film... a lot. I suppose you are reacting to Devlin's (Cary Grant) cruelty towards Alicia (Ingrid Bergman). Ahhhh, yes, we men handle jealousy and female rejection so very well.
What's great about the film is that each jumps to the wrong conclusions about the other. It's great.*UNDER CAPRICORN in my opinion is very underrated,*
It certainly is underrated. It's still not a favorite of mine, but I like it more than when I first saw it. It's just a heavy watch.
*and I'm beginning to think that JAMAICA INN (which I love in a very wild moor kind of way) is as well.*
The atmosphere and mood of the film is what I like most about it. It's similar to *Under Capricorn*, in that way. Also, they share similarities in the strangeness of the triangles.
*As for PSYCHO, it's the perfect distillation of a horror film -- "we all go a little mad sometime"*
Very good!
*I do enjoy DIAL M FOR MURDER, ROPE, THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH (1956) TO CATCH A THIEF.*
That's an interesting mix, there. *Rope* is a film that I rarely see women liking.
*I always have to watch THE PARADINE CASE whenever it's on.*
It's definitely on the dry, boring side, but I tend to like it more than most. In a way, it's an early version of *Vertigo*.
*I can never get through I CONFESS and STAGE FRIGHT.*
The seriousness of *I Confess* can weigh it down. I can see how many would find it boring. But I'm surprised you don't like *Stage Fright*. Is Marlene the reason? The film is definitely one of the "fluffiest" of Hitch's.
*I like Ludwig Donath's overacting in TORN CURTAIN, lol,*
I love the early death scene in the film. It's one of Hitch's best.
*and, weirdly, the Russian marching music in TOPAZ.*
I pretty much enjoy *Topaz* because of the adulterous love affair in the middle of the film.
*Haven't seen MR. AND MRS. SMITH all the way through, but I know I'll love it.*
If you like Carole and Robert, you should really like it. Carole is very good.
*SABOTEUR, eh. Robert Cummings, oy.*
I can't say I'm big on Bob, either. But I do love the entire vibe of that film. It's basically the American version of *The 39 Steps*.
*Oscar Homolka is great in SABOTAGE.*
He really is. I just love the "big" scene in that film. It's one of the best in all Hitchdom.
*MARNIE and THE BIRDS have their moments.*
Not a Tippi fan? *Marnie* is one of the heaviest of Hitch's films. I think it's a very tough watch. But I have come to like it more with repeat viewings. It's another Hitch film that prominently features the male sex drive and the fear it can strike in woman. The mother/daughter relationship is fascinating. I like *The Birds* for the mother/"daughter-in-law" story.
*I don't know why NORTH BY NORTHWEST bores me.*
Many on this board would say overexposure. Is that why?
*FAMILY PLOT does the same.*
I think that's what most would say with that film. I really like it, though. I see the couple as being Hitch and Alma. But I will say that Hitch's final two films were "ugly" compared to the "beauty" of most every one of his other films. *Frenzy* and *Family Plot* ain't Cary Grant and Grace Kelly.
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Wow! That's a really unique list of Hitch favorites, Bronxie.
My analysis? You like the mid-30s to the early-40s. It seems like many people like a certain era of Hitch. But the biggest thing I see with your favorites is that they lean "female" for Hitch. Rebecca is often cited as a Hitch favorite by women. I often see women favoring The Lady Vanishes, Suspicion, and Shadow of a Doubt. Psycho is the one film that doesn't fit, but since you're a horror fan, it makes sense.
I'm impressed by your liking Under Capricorn and Jamaica Inn as much as you do. That's a rarity. They have a similar feel to them.
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Those are some heavyweights you got there, Movieman. Big-time stars. I like it.
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Thank you, Movieman.
I did think a little about "J.J. Hunsecker," and I decided he plays as a villain.
*Speaking of nasty - it's a small part but for pure meanness I'll add Jack Elam in "Rawhide."*
Oooohh, that's a really good one. He's despicable.
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*But he turns out to have been a man.*
The mummy is a man! He's just a reeeeeeeeeeeealy old man!
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*Orson's always fun to watch. He's terrific in* *The Stranger, too.*
And those two characters are complete opposites. One is very "loud" while the other is "quiet." Then you have an intellectual villain such as "Harry Lime."
*Sometimes, yes. My list would have been too long with them included. I just can't see them as the same category. Godzilla vs Liberty Valance?*
Darth Vader!
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*Why so shocked about Max? I've always been proper scared of him.*
I didn't think he would top the list. He's definitely a physical presence and threat.
*That's a nice list, lots of "lethal ladies" on it, which I'm sure CinemAva will appreciate, and many others I should have thought of, like Hank Quinlan. I should have even included Orson Welles from The Third Man and Basil Rathbone in* *Captain Blood and* *The Adventures of Robin Hood. He made a dashing foe for Errol Flynn.*
You like the swashy villain, eh? Very classic. "Hank Quinlan" is quite a force.
*Now I deliberately refrained from putting any monsters on my list, like the "mummy" or else I would have put Dracula (Bela) and* *The Wolf Man (Lon, jr.).*
Monsters make for interesting "villains." Many times they are merely misunderstood or outside the "rule" of Society for one reason or another.
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Wow! I'm thoroughly impressed by your list of villains and your write-ups for each. Expertly done, Snippy.
I'm absolutely shocked that you listed "Max Cady" as the top villain for you. I would have never guessed that. I would have guessed "Liberty Valance." I'm surprised "Frank" and "Mrs. Iselin" are on your list.
My favorite villain list:
1. Kitty March (Joan Bennett in *Scarlet Street* )
2. Max Cady (Robert Mitchum in *Cape Fear* )
3. Reverend Harry Powell (Robert Mitchum in *The Night of the Hunter* )
4. Cabman Gray (Boris Karloff in *The Body Snatcher* )
5. Mr. Scratch (Walter Huston in *The Devil and Daniel Webster* )
6. Margot Shelby (Jean Gillie in *Decoy* )
7. Johnny Prince (Dan Duryea in *Scarlet Street* )
8. Dr. Mabuse (Rudolf Klein-Rogge in *Dr. Mabuse, the Gambler* )
9. Mrs. Iselin (Angela Lansbury in *The Manchurian Candidate* )
10. Bruno Anthony (Robert Walker in *Strangers on a Train* )
11. J.J. Hunsecker (Burt Lancaster in *Sweet Smell of Success* )
12. Hank Quinlan (Orson Welles in *Touch of Evil* )
13. Ben Wade (Glenn Ford in *3:10 to Yuma* )
14. Raven (Alan Ladd in *This Gun for Hire* )
15. Ed Cornell (Laird Cregar in *I Wake Up Screaming* )
16. Im-ho-tep/Ardath Bey (Boris Karloff in *The Mummy* )
17. Mr. Hyde (Spencer Tracy in *Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde* )
18. Kathie Moffat (Jane Greer in *Out of the Past* )
19. Uncle Charlie (Joseph Cotten in *Shadow of a Doubt* )
20. Elsa Bannister (Rita Hayworth in *The Lady from Shanghai* )
21. Annie Laurie Starr (Peggy Cummins in *Gun Crazy* )
22. Diane Tremayne (Jean Simmons in *Angel Face* )
23. Connie Wallace (Mary Beth Hughes in *The Great Flamarion* )
24. Woman (Millie Perkins in *The Shooting* )
25. Irene Neves (Gloria Grahame in *Sudden Fear* )
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Ciao, Lively Gal -- *I might be the second one behind JackFavell on that list. I confess (no, that didn't make my list), I've never really been emotionally attached to "REAR WINDOW." I respect it, but its story and Stewart's dilemma doesn’t touch my heart. The voyeurism makes me feel distant to it. Like JackaaaAaaaay said about "Vertigo" I say about "Rear Window" masterful, but my heart...not so much. I liked the sum of its parts rather than the movie as a whole. But I acknowledge it's a great film.*
Wow, I'm impressed! Most everyone chooses *Rear Window* over *Vertigo*. But I do like the emotion of *Rear Window*. It flips the sexes. Typically, it's a man who goes out of his way to prove his love for a woman. It's the opposite in *Rear Window*. The man is in a wheelchair, so the woman has to do the physical work. She's the one who places herself in danger for the man.
*What would those signals be?*
*Vertigo* signifies a seriousness with the viewer, be it intellectual, psychological, or artistic. Basically, *Rear Window* is more for the masses. I expect most to prefer it. If someone doesn't prefer it, it means they are a little different. Anything that makes a person different than the majority, for whatever the reason, is gonna pique my interest.
*I would love to see this test. But then again, wouldn't that be a bit of a sticky wicket? WHAT would it say about the person that makes up the test? What would it say about their psyche if the creator of the list posts:*
* "LAST TRAIN FROM GUN HILL"* *vs. "3:10 TO YUMA.” instead of "M"* *vs. "METROPOLIS" Isn't the list creator's psyche susceptible to bias? What does say about him...or her?*
Remember, I said *Vertigo* is a litmus test film for me . It's my litmus, so it's completely biased to how I learn about people. My litmus test would be completely different than yours and most everyone else's. Still, I can discern about people through the litmus. So, yes, whoever the author of the litmus is gonna have a bias that they use to discern.
*I agree (provided the person is being honest and forthright) with that. Now with this gauge, is it hard and fast scientific, is it playful? Will I be judged and doomed and shunned b'cuz my favorite film might be "DETOUR" or* *"MR. SARDONICUS" and not something lofty like* *"TRAIL OF THE LONESOME PINE"?*
Only if someone is inclined to do so for those reasons. That's on them, not you.
If their goal is to find out if you have taste in film, then I guess you could be vulnerable if they deem what you like to be in horrible taste.
*I was going to work on a film a few years ago, and I was looking for an assistant producer. My film was a comedy and I wanted to see if this applicant had a sense of humor...and since my humor and sense of cinema is rooted in classic films, I gave her "THE AWFUL TRUTH" to watch. It's funny, zany and...well you know the movie. She told me it was okay but she didn't really care for it. It wasn't that funny.*
*Hmmmmm. That was my litmus test. I couldn't use her. She didn’t "get it."*
There ya go! That was a litmus test of your own. And *The Awful Truth* is funny. Very funny.
So you're more of a 50/60s Hitch lass and Jackie is more of a 30/40s Hitch lass. That makes sense to me because I believe it matches you both.
My Hitch list:
1. Psycho
2. Vertigo
3. Rear Window
4. Strangers on a Train
5. Notorious
6. The 39 Steps
7. North by Northwest
8. Spellbound
9. Shadow of a Doubt
10. Frenzy
11. Rope
12. To Catch a Thief
13. Dial M for Murder
14. Foreign Correspondent
15. The Birds
16. Blackmail
17. Mr. and Mrs. Smith
18. The Lady Vanishes
19. Saboteur
20. The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956)
21. Suspicion
22. The Manxman
23. Family Plot
24. Young and Innocent
25. Sabotage
26. I Confess
27. The Man Who Knew Too Much (1934)
28. Marnie
29. Stage Fright
30. Secret Agent
31. The Lodger
32. Topaz
33. Rebecca
34. The Paradine Case
35. Rich and Strange
36. Torn Curtain
37. Lifeboat
38. Number Seventeen
39. Murder!
40. The Wrong Man
41. The Trouble with Harry
42. The Farmer's Wife
43. Under Capricorn
44. The Ring
45. Champagne
46. Easy Virtue
47. Jamaica Inn
48. Waltzes from Vienna
49. Downhill
50. The Skin Game
51. Juno and the Paycock
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*THe only other two that I've seen on your list we haven't talked about are* *Man of the World and* *Doubting Thomas. I know why you wouldn't like the latter,*
Why do you think I wouldn't like *Doubting Thomas* ?
*but I don't really remember much about the Powell/Lombard movie. It was kind of serious, wasn't it? This was before Carole really found her persona.*
It starts off as a comedy but it turns dramatic. The ending really surprised me. It really boosted the film, in my estimation. I'd say the film plays like a lesser *Trouble in Paradise*.
William Powell is always so very good. He's sensational. Carole is playing a straight character, so she's not very interesting. Wynne Gibson is the female that is interesting. She's playing a "Miriam Hopkins" character.
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That's great! It's definitely a "country wagon"; perfect for fishing in Mexico.
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*Oh yes, Preston Foster drove it, right? The wood paneling.*
Uh-huh, that's it. It's quite a ride for film noir.
*There was one also in* *Now, Voyager, if you remember.*
I don't remember! Crap! Whose car was it?
*It sounds like fun to me. But like in the movie, not like they are now.*
If you're gonna wear what Ida wears, let's bowl!
*The movie kind of took the easy way out, make the guy out to be a bad guy.*
It did. They wanted the "I own you" ending.
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*Ha! I actually like the set up, it's one of my attractions to the movie. That ghastly decor, which is so charming because it's of the period. I imagine pictures of cowboys on the dinner plates.*
And then there's the vehicle. And, ironically, a similar vehicle is found in *Kansas City Confidential*.Bowling after hours. Amazing.
*I figured you'd like Celeste Holm's character. Dear O.Z. Whitehead manned the bar.*
I did like Celeste. She was game for anything.
*The dialogue exchanges between Lily and Pete pretty much make the whole movie for me, along with the setting.*
There's some good energy in the first half. Ida is crackling.
*Sometimes I watch the DVD just to laugh at Lily's outrageous wisecracks. She's so funny when Widmark wakes her up too early with breakfast in bed.*
She's far from a "morning person."
SPOILED AT THE ROAD HOUSE
*He's actually rather sweet and I felt sorry for him. It was hard to read whether he went crazy because he's crazy, or because he was spoiled, or because he was just jealous.*
I'd say it's because he's spoiled. Still, it does stink when you bring a gal to town and you defend her and speak highly of her to your "partner," who doesn't really like her yet eventually wins her away from you.
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*I figured you wouldn't be crazy about* *Road House.*
You were right. It's definitely a strange film. A bowling alley/night club... in the woods? Very odd.
*I like it for the first half, the ending is not great or doesn't seem to quite live up to the build-up.*
I had the same feeling. I enjoyed the burn of Lily (Ida Lupino) and Pete (Cornel Wilde) in the first half of the film. And even though I enjoy seeing Richard Widmark unhinged in the second half, the film becomes too predictable. I didn't like the finish.
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It's not about finding what movie you are. It's that we can find out who you are through movies.
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*How is it inhumanly possible for a movie maven to spend three harrowing, nerve-wracked hours in Macy's, shopping for bedding and looking at sheets, shams, skirts, duvets and comforters from helpful salesladies who gave me so much information my head swam...when all I wanna do is talk about movies???*
Better you than me! Blah!
*Just one question...would you explain to me what is meant by "litmus" in the context of films? Thanx.*
Simply, a personality test. I think it would be interesting to see a classic film personality test and see how people match up.
I always take notice of people's favorites, for I see it as a way to learn a person. Thanks to a message board like this, I can come to learn and understand people through their words. But that takes time. Personality tests are quicker gauges.
Like I mentioned before, it's not what we like, it's what's behind what we like.
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*Didn't you bring up The Searchers as a litmus in this thread at the beginning of this discussion? I'm all mixed up, I guess.*
I did! *The Searchers* vs. *Once Upon a Time in the West* will usually let you know if the viewer is more of a traditional western fan or not. Not always, of course.*So what does each cavalry picture mean, when using them as a litmus?*
For me, the test is with *Rio Grande*, since most people rarely mention that one as their favorite. If I see that someone chooses that one, I take notice. Naming the other two is more the norm.
I find *Rio Grande* to be the most romantic of the three. *Fort Apache* is the stronger and darker of the three. *She Wore a Yellow Ribbon* is the sentimental, mature one.
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*I see. So with Ford, I definitely would pick* *The Searchers, but with Hitch it's hard for me.*
With Ford, I always find the "cavalry" trilogy as a good starter litmus test. I'm not sure what kind of litmus can be found with *The Searchers*. One I've noticed is Laurie Jorgensen, though. She's a great litmus.
*I would pick* *Vertigo - it's truly a masterpiece. However, it is not an easy film for me to watch... and I have to admit that I dislike the characters. It's disturbing to me on a profound level, not in the way I like to be disturbed. My brain says it's amazing, but my heart.....not so much. I was never a fan of* *Rear Window, but it is growing on me recently.*
Wow! You're the only classic film fan I've encountered who wasn't a fan of *Rear Window*.
The entire reason behind the comparison is that *Rear Window* is more mainstream (easy to watch) and *Vertigo* is psychological (demanding to watch). If someone prefers *Vertigo*, that will send off some signals with me.
*For years, before I saw Vertigo, I liked* *Strangers on a Train, then* *Shadow of a Doubt. Now I think Shadow edges out Strangers.*
Both are big favorites of mine, but *Strangers on a Train* is one of the very first Hitch films I liked the most.
*But as for favorite to watch, I might pick something like* *Mr. and Mrs. Smith or* *The Trouble with Harry.*
*The Trouble with a Harry* is usually a litmus film with Hitch. I'm not that crazy about it but I've seen many on this board who list it as a favorite. I've always taken these people to like the "lighter side." This applies to you, since one of your favorite genres is comedy.
*So my Hitch picks would be all over the place, and I might just be stubborn and rebellious in picking his comedies rather than the deep spiral of Vertigo....*
I'm sure that's part of it. But I do believe you prefer comedy, overall.
*I think in the end, when the dust has settled, I am a* *Shadow of a Doubt girl. Does that make me a Mary Ann?
*You're definitely a Mary Ann.
I think most gals are. -
For me, it's not what they like but what's behind what they like. One can say, "I like Hitchcock," but then there's more to be found. Hence my saying *Rear Window* vs. *Vertigo*.
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*It's definitely not a film for men. Hawks inverts everything. The men may be gawking but they are the "objects" of pursuit.*
Well, sort of. The object of pursuit isn't always man.
*I think Marilyn is hilarious, and she and Jane make a great team. Jane's great at the wise cracks.*
Marilyn has some good moments, to be sure. I thought Jane was on top of her game. And I did like them as a team. I liked a couple of the naughty moments.
*Did you spot Harry Carey, Jr.?*
Oh, heck no.
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*So how did you handle* *Gentlemen Prefer Blondes? Just about the only MM "biggie" left for you is* *Some Like it Hot.*
Movieman was right, it's sleazy! Just kidding. I still get a kick out of his calling it "sleazy." That's great!
I didn't hate *Gentlemen Prefer Blondes*, but I can't say there was anything that was "me" in the film, in terms of entertainment. I thought Marilyn was adorable and I once again fell for Jane, but the overall story just doesn't do much for me.
*
I did! *The Searchers* vs. *Once Upon a Time in the West* will usually let you know if the viewer is more of a traditional western fan or not. Not always, of course.
The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread
in Your Favorites
Posted
Hiya, Lethal Lady -- *Hello Grimesy. I come to torture you...I mean to pepper you with questions.*
All right!
*Yes, you're so right about the mechanics of "REAR WINDOW" and its plot and subtext...and of its emotion. Wish MY emotion were in there more. Not sure why I don't like it more b'cuz I like when movies flip the usual societal roles of the sexes. I do appreciate its masterfulness. I want to be sure to get that across.*
So what's your emotion?
*Well it'll be hard not for me to be swell-headed since your litmus of* *"VERTIGO" has me turning out to be a brainiac. I don't know if I'm any of those things but I'll take it. I'll take it! I do understand that those are things you get out of someone liking one film over another.*
I definitely see you as an intellectual film watcher. All the time? No. You've got your soft spots, too. And, for the record, I don't like the constant intellectual film watcher. It's too much for me. I like seeing some variety. But I also find the mass-appeal film watcher as being rather "empty."
*Yes yes, I understand this completely. And I'm happy to read that you enjoy "THE AWFUL TRUTH."*
I really like the "battle of the sexes" comedies from that era. *The Awful Truth* is one of the best of those films. A jealous Cary Grant is thoroughly entertaining.
*I didn't include all the films I have seen of Alfred Hitchcock's. If I did, you would see the bulk of my affection for his work is from the 1940's. I won't bore you with the break down of my choices of his films from each decade. I wanted to torture you not bore you.*
But your very favorites are from the 50s/60. Those do something for you a little more than those of the 40s. I tend to like Hitch in the 50s the very most.
*Your Hitch list is amazing Frank.*
Thank you!
*Fifty-one films. Are they in order of your affection for them, or were you just listing the Hitchcock films you've seen?*
Now you know better with me. It's always in order of preference.
*In your analysis of Bronxgirl's list of the Hitchcock films she preferred you said:* *"But the biggest thing I see with your favorites is that they lean 'female' for Hitch." What, in your opinion, makes an Alfred Hitchcock film "female" and what makes it "male"? Is it "romance" for girls and "murder" for boys? No, I know it's not that simplistic, so would you give me a couple of examples of each?*
For me, it's simply about who the main focus of a story is about. The story focus of *Rebecca* is a young woman who is struggling with issues women struggle with. That makes it very "female." A woman is going to identify more with such a film than a man is. *Suspicion* has a woman in the lead who is struggling with a female issue. *Shadow of a Doubt* ? Young girl. *Stage Fright* ? Girl. *The Lady Vanishes* ? Girl. It's truly amazing how many films Hitchcock made that place the woman in the spotlight.
If the focus is shared between characters, then I turn my eye to what's behind the story. I find romance films to be "female." "Action" is male. *To Catch a Thief* is more of a "female" Hitchcock because its primary focus is romance. Tone is another tip-off for me. I consider "light" to be female and "dark" to be male.
"Male" Hitch? *North by Northwest* would be an example of this. We are following a wronged male character. *The 39 Steps* is "male" because it features a guy chained to a disagreeable woman. *Strangers on a Train* is "male." *The Wrong Man* is "male." *Saboteur* is "male." *Frenzy* is very "male."
*And if a man likes a "female" Hitchcock film (and vice-versa) what do you believe that says about the man or the woman? Does it mean they have the sensibility of the opposite sex?*
It can mean a few things. There are definitely some women who have male sensibilities with certain things, like movies, and there are definitely men who have female sensibilities. Sometimes it's as you say, the person has the ability to possess both a male and female sensibility. I definitely like it when a person has the ability to carry both sensibilities. Still, we have our leanings.
For example, Quiet Gal possesses male sensibility. She tends to like westerns and action flicks and is more inclined to roll her eyes at the mushy stuff.
*I specifically have cited YOU and given you credit in my private life for me being able to now embrace and appreciate "NOTORIOUS." (I do still wish Dev had met Alicia half-way though. Boy, he sure tested her...into the arms of another man. And into the clutches of an evil mother-in-law. Hmmmm....I wonder how Hitch got along with Alma's mother).*
That's great! Thank you! If a guy is jealous, it's rarely "half-way." We tend to be possessive.
And I do agree with you with Hitch and Alma's mom. I bet there was something there. But that can be tricky since Alma was so hands on. She probably had problems with Hitch's mom, too, though.
*Funny I never found "MARNIE" tough or heavy. I've been watching that film since I was in the tenth grade. My understanding of it has changed since I was a teenager, of course, but I used to always breeze through it. Now as an adult I have a more deeper of understanding of it.*
I always find the humorless Hitch films to be on the heavy side, but just the topic matter of *Marnie* is extremely heavy for Hitch. Most Hitchcock films are relaxed, especially when it comes to sexuality. *Marnie* is the exact opposite. Sex is an anchor in *Marnie*.
*I ought to really challenge myself and give "TOPAZ" "TORN CURTAIN" and some of Hitchcock's earlier work more of a chance. I Confess, I love my favorites and visit them often like old friends.*
I typically look to expand my film universe. I want to know more. I'm also a completist.
I can't see you liking *Topaz* and *Torn Curtain*. Actually, you may like Karin Dor in *Topaz*. I'm completely drawn to her. The early Hitch films would be a major test for you because I see you liking more of a polished product with Hitch and his British work is mostly unpolished.
*But I just want to know, which actor do you prefer between Cary Grant and James Stewart. And tell me why.*
It's close for me since Jimmy Stewart is my second favorite actor and Cary Grant is my third favorite. With Hitch? I have to go with Cary Grant as being my favorite in terms of characters with Hitch. But when it comes to acting? I'd go with Jimmy.
The reason why I prefer Cary's characters is because I find them to be much more enjoyable. I'm a big fan of the "quiet" Cat. Cary is usually a "loud" performer, but he's very "quiet" in *To Catch a Thief*. Grace Kelly is the "loud" one.
I certainly enjoy "Johnnie" in *Suspicion*. It's a very "Cary" kind of character. He's nothing but charming. But then Hitch tosses in the dark side of Johnnie. What kind of man is he, really? Love those doubts.
I think Cary is at his funniest in *North by Northwest*. I find "Roger Thornhill" to be hilarious. I also find Devlin's jealous digs at Alicia in *Notorious* to be hilarious. Plus, I don't think I've seen Cary more "in love" than in *Notorious*. I really like Dev.
The reason why I prefer Jimmy's performances with Hitch is the kind of characters he played. "Rupert Cadell" is an arrogant jerk in *Rope*. When is Jimmy ever an arrogant jerk? I guess *The Philadelphia Story* would be one that comes close. Then he plays a weak, non-committal man in *Rear Window*. He neuters himself in that film. It's great. Then we get Jimmy as a married man and a father. In Hitchcock?! What?!
But the biggie is definitely *Vertigo*. We've seen Jimmy Stewart obsessed over something like revenge and hate in Anthony Mann's westerns but when have we seen Jimmy obsessed over sex? He turns really ugly because of it, too. Fascinating.
So when it comes to Hitch characters, I enjoy Cary more. But in terms of acting, it's easily Jimmy.