FrankGrimes

*I like that. You're right, everyone was pretty screwed up by how they were brought up and the inconsistency.* Right. I think they are sent to the asylum because what they believe and think is different than Society. This makes them "crazy." *I think his interest in Geraldine Brooks is also selfish. She admires him and thinnks he's more wonderful than he is and this puffs up his ego. He likes being with someone who's not onto him and I don't think it's because she brings out the best in him, either. It's purely selfish because he ought to know he's not the right kind of guy for her.* I believe there is that component, to be sure. But I think he decided to go after Carol (Geraldine Brooks) with the idea of making Louise (Joan Crawford) jealous. What's the one thing that would really upset Louise? That David would actually COMMIT to Carol. That's what Louise wanted the most from David and he always laughed at such a notion. But when she marries another man, he's bitter and he needs to find a way to get back at her. *Re: A Canterbury Tale. I forgot to mention how much I was taken by the scene in the wood shop. The lighting, staging and of course, the whole authenticity of the scene was so well done I can practically smell the wood chips. Watching people who are good with their hands, and then have that actually be celebrated by the story itself, is the kind of stuff I love.* That's a beautiful observation. There really is a love for the common and old world in *A Canterbury Tale*. The beauty of the film is what I believe Jackie will adore. The overall theme of the film is what I think Quiet Gal will adore. I liked the camper in storage. It's lovely.

Howdy, Mother York -- Why don't I see you being as patient? *I'd rather watch McLintock!.* *Oh good.. well I'll go get my hat pin, then, ha. * Always with the violence! You're made for westerns. *Let's see.. if you didn't UTTERLY hate SY, I am wondering now what parts of the movie you MIGHT have maybe sort of, kind of, or at least perhaps (ha) did NOT hate (as much as other parts)* What I liked the most was Alvin (Coop) and Gracie (Joan Leslie). I liked how he wanted to do things for her, to build a home for them. I liked how she always told Alvin how he was wrong about her choosing a man for his money (land, etc.). She was crazy for him, so long as he wasn't drinking and rough-housing. *How did you feel about the scenes w/ him and his "Ma"? To me, Mother York is one of the best characters in the whole story.. the way she loves and believes in her son.. and wants the best for him, no matter what. She knows he's not perfect (especially at the beginning) but she lets him go his own way.. at least as far as she could.. but OH, me, she can make him toe the line too. I liked her a lot.* Ma York is the backbone of the story. Margaret Wycherly is superb. She's pitch perfect. And I did like that she believed in her son. *Now that one was a harder call. I am glad you liked it. I THOUGHT you might.. (for the reasons you mentioned to Jackie) but then I thought you MIGHT also NOT like it.. because, let's face it.. it DOES have it's "silly" moments..ha..( and the fine line between enjoyably "silly" and annoying CAN be in the eye of the beholder)* Boy, are you ever right about the "silly" being an "eye of the beholder" deal. I know quite a few people who would call *You Can't Take It with You* as being "dumb" because of all the zany people. You really do have to like those people to like the film. *It is a VERY sweet and endearing movie but again.. it IS a little silly (in a sweet and endearing way) ha... But really, that is all a part of its charm.* I love the unselfish love that's found in the film. I love it when Martin (Lionel Barrymore) decides he's gonna sell his home just because his daughter is away from him. *As for Black Narcissus.. oh me.. I have to say.. I only just saw this movie myself for the first time a couple of months ago.. it is something.* *On one hand it is just very beautiful.. (in a bizarre sort of way) and on the other hand.. it is QUITE dark.. (very dark.. very, very dark) in a lot of ways.. But it is a really powerful story too. I think you MAY like it (at least portions of it) but who am I to guess?? ha. I will be interested to hear what you think about it.* Well, you know me, I do love "very dark." Just those words alone makes me very curious to see it. The DVD is on my "to buy list" for this year, so I'm sure I will be watching before the year is out.

Hiya, Invisible Woman -- Who let you in?! *hey there agent mulder!* Ha! *by the way watched that one episode "Our Town" and they tried to almost chop MY Scully's head off! of course you would like that episode! Of course Mulder came to the rescue as her knight in shining armor, so i was initially a happy trouper at the end. * I can't believe a scaredy cat like you is watching The X Files ! What's this world coming to?! *you are so predictable frankie angel! Heehee!* Who is that?! *But it wasn't a surprise how low Sergeant York was on your list. I mean how could I expect to see such an extraordinary movie higher on your list if you think he wears too much make-up....sheesh!* Gary was actually very good. He's the perfect kind of actor to portray a man like Alvin York.

Hiya, Miss Gun for Hire -- *hmmm, the word "Reply" has disappeared again.* Yes, I noticed that. *I am amazed you ranked* *A Canterbury Tale so highly, and above* *Shock Corridor which I figured would be your favorite.* To be honest, I'm also surprised that I ended up liking *A Cantebury Tale* a little more than *Shock Corridor*. It's a beautiful film. *I thought you'd like* *Possessed more* So did I! I didn't find any of the characters to be enjoyable or interesting. *and I actually did think you would like You Can't Take it With You.* *A Canterbury Tale - My favorite Powell & Pressburger film by far. I believe it's the most delicate and loving of their movies (followed by I Know Where I'm Going) and it's almost Fordian in its affectionate depiction of the colorful villagers and village life. The opening is one of the most captivating I've seen. The movie was supposed to be a propaganda movie, but though it certainly celebrates what is best about England, I get a vague ambivalence about war from it. I may be wrong about that.* That was very nicely said. I agree with all you said. *My favorite P&P films in order:* *A Canterbury Tale* *Black Narcissus* *Gone to Earth (aka The Wild Heart)* *I Know Where I'm Going* *A Matter of Life and Death* *The 49th Parallel* *The Red Shoes* *The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp* Nicely done! I'm most interested in seeing *Black Narcissus* and *I Know Where I'm Going!*. *I regard the last two as stunningly gorgeous movies, rare jewels really, of cinematic beauty. But I don't care for the stories or the characters, oddly enough. I was never so disappointed in a film as I was in* *The Red Shoes because I was a ballet dancer and I had heard how wonderful it was. I don't know why it just never clicked with me. Probably because most of the people in it are very chilly.* I'm wary of those two films. The subject matter worries me. *Shock Corridor - I've written about it being rather fascinating to me though most of it goes over my head. It feels like Fuller is saying the wrong people are put away as "crazy". And of course, there's the corruption and lust for fame that he criticizes. The irony is the most decent person in the movie is a stripper.* All good points. I think the crazy folks are crazy because they are going against the system. They are disagreeing with what they are being taught and told to accept, so the system labels them as "crazy." Fuller is definitely smacking the pursuit of fame and personal glory, particularly with those in the news business. And, you're right, in classic Fuller fashion, a stripper is decent. *Possessed - The movie interests me because I am always trying to figure out if Van Heflin's character is really as awful as I think he is. He's such an easy going person but I conclude he really is pretty nasty to Joan and that's what sends her around the bend. It's not to excuse her problems, but I thought it interesting that the movie makes him basically the leading man yet his interest in both women (Joan and Geraldine Brooks) is consistently from a selfish standpoint. His reaction to their growing love for him makes the movie seem a little more complex than most at this time. He's not an evil man, but boy is he ever modern and that's what I find unexpected because I typically figure a movie of this sort is going to make him out to be a thoroughly good guy.* David Sutton (Van Heflin) is a mixed bag, for me. He's a horrible louse in that he's cheating on his wife, but he's pretty open with Louise (Joan Crawford) about his not being serious about love and a deep relationship. So it's kind of strange that we're to hate him from Louise's point of view. David's selfish pursuits (sex, being a big one) does make him quite modern. And he does slink back into town whenever he's "needy." He's a slimy one. *You Can't Take with You - Though so many still act as if they thought they could. :)I love Edward Arnold in this, and all the performers are perfect. It's one of my favorite Donald Meek performances, too. His little "creations" are so sweet and touching. Poor thing. Jimmy and Jean seem so natural and made for each other. Spring Byington is adorable.* You hit on many of the key notes for me. "Poppins" is now my favorite Donald Meek character. The same with Spring Byington and her "Penny." They are wonderful. And I do believe comedy is the genre for character actors to shine. Everyone is excellent in *You Can't Take It with You*.

Wow! I'm impressed by all the guesses on what I liked and what I didn't. That's great. You're mostly onto me, with some exceptions. This is how I liked the films: 1. A Canterbury Tale 2. Shock Corridor 3. You Can't Take It with You 4. Moontide 5. Five Star Final 6. Bend of the River 7. Last Train from Gun Hill 8. Back from Eternity 9. Possessed 10. Sergeant York Hey, Quiet Gal -- *RE: Sgt. York.. you utterly hated it. (but I am very impressed that you watched it) :-)* I can't say I utterly hated it, but I certainly didn't like it. I'd rather watch *McLintock!*. *(I think you MIGHT have liked Bend of the River.. at least somewhat)* That is correct. *(You Can't Take it With You.. hmmm... that one is a "maybe"... (I love that movie by the way.. so now I bet you will say you REALLY hated it, ha) * I thought it was really good. It's a very loving comedy. Hi, Musicman -- *I recall you hated "York."* Did you jump into your time machine, again?! I just watched the film for the first time, last night. *"Bend of The River" might be a bit ordinary for you.* That's a good way of putting it. I liked Jimmy, quite a bit. He's so doggone good. But the story isn't that compelling. *I thought you'd seen "You Can't Take It With You" and weren't all that enthralled with it but I don't really remember.* No, I just watched it for the first time about a week ago. *I think it is funny and sweet.* That's a very good description of the film. And I do like "sweet." *One of my favorite scenes is when Jean and Lionel are having their time up in "Grandma's room." It's a gentle scene filled with love for each other and the one that has passed.* Somebody is a sweet sentimentalist. I liked that scene, too. *Sure, it's a bit preachy but I like for the some of the complete nonsense in it.* You're right, it's on the heavy-handed side, but I did enjoy it. I like the message of family and "family." Heya, Grahame's Guy -- *I think you liked:* *Five Star Final* I was struggling with the film for the first half, but once the big event happens, I started to like the film. I liked its message and view of love. *Back from Eternity ( I still prefer the original Five Came Back)* I wasn't too crazy about it. I also prefer *Five Came Back* because of Joseph Calleia, C. Aubrey Smith, and Elisabeth Risdon. I wasn't too keen on Rod Steiger. What I liked most was Robert Ryan. Surprise, surprise. *I'll go out on a longer limb and say you liked:* *Possessed (I assume you mean the 1947 film. Crawford made another "Possessed" with Gable in 1931)* No, I really didn't like that one. I thought it was "overcooked." *no go on You Can't take it With You unless Jean Arthur, and maybe Lionel Barrymore helped you along.* It's a go on *You Can't Take It with You*. I'm a Jean Arthur fan and a Lionel Barrymore fan. I thought both were very good. But I really liked the entire "family." Ciao, Little Red Buick -- *I'm guessing you loved Shock Corridor. I haven't seen SHock Corridor, but MissG wrote it up a little while ago so I think that one is your cuppa tea.* Well, you're mostly right. I can't say I loved it (I prefer *The Naked Kiss* ), but I definitely liked it. It's definitely my kind of flick. Love Constance Towers. Love the heavy-handed social commentary. *I think you also really liked Five Star Final - which is a great movie with a great message and wonderful performances.* I ended up liking it because of the message and its wonderful take on love. I thought Eddie G. and Aline MacMahon were terrific. Some of the other performers I felt were very "30s." Still, it worked for me. *I think maybe you might have liked A Canterbury Tale, but that can go either way.* It's a must-watch film for you and Quiet Gal. You'll both like it but for different reasons. It's a beautiful film. *I'm thinking Last Train from Gun Hill might come next.* I found it to be rather ordinary. I liked Kirk Douglas' anger and Carolyn Jones. The tension is good, but the story didn't do much for me. It reminds me a little of *The Man from Laramie*, but I found that film to be much deeper. *I, like the others, think you hated Sergeant York.* You were all right about that one. It doesn't match my sensibilities. I found it to be too hokey. *I can't figure out whether you hated You Can't Take it With You or found it charming - I'll stick with my first thought and say you hated it.* Free-thinkers who value people over money? That's me, all the way!

How many of the ten have you seen, Movieman?

I've watched ten more films, Snippy. How do you think I liked them?: Back from Eternity Bend of the River A Canterbury Tale Five Star Final Last Train from Gun Hill Moontide Possessed Sergeant York Shock Corridor You Can't Take It with You

Good night to you, Denver. Get some sleep.

That was wonderful, Jackie. I thank you. I do enjoy pics of Grace.

Now that's one of my favorite Grace pics.

*COMING SOON!!! TALL T'S TOP TEN LETHAL LADIES LIST!!!!* Bring it!

Geez, if this keeps up, I'm gonna have to watch five of your movies. I've got another "Quiet Gal" film scheduled, too. I'm worried.

Ahhhhh, such a delicate flower. I'm an easy mark.

Easy!

As much as Big Daddy is irritated by the "show," he's created it. I'm not going to kiss tail just to protect my own tail. You know what this really reminds me of? The Hucksters.

*I think you've been doing a bit of smacking yourself.* Me? I'm the sweet and innocent one! *I thought that's what you'd say. I just don't know. You're probably right, I think she might walk out the door. But I still have enough doubt.... I think that everything she does is to get Brick back and to oneup Mae and Gooper.* *I think she might just preserve his best interests by following through with "the game" while also keeping her dignity. Sooner or later, he would appreciate her for it.* I think she's preserving her best interests. And there's nothing wrong with that. *On the other hand, she might just let them all have it, going out with a bang.... this is Tennessee Williams after all. * That would be great! But I don't think that's Maggie. *That's kind of side stepping the issue.* I was speaking the truth! It's Big Daddy's call and if I were in such a situation, I'd split it evenly. *I simply wanted to point out that Brick, though out of his mind with grief and sick at heart with all the "show", does have others to think about, even if he doesn't take the money himself.* He has Maggie to think about, at this point. And he wasn't thinking too highly of her and her antics. She was part of the problem. *Would it be selling out to put the money in trust for his future generations? I know...I know.... he's not thinking at all.... he's trying not to think.* I don't believe Brick has a problem with receiving the money. What his problem is that the money and estate don't mean nearly as much to him as his father's love. And he finds the entire phony show of love for Big Daddy to be repulsive. They are in love with his wealth, not the man. I'm with Brick.

Heya, Spunky -- *What a super great discussion! I have enjoyed reading every minute of it!* You just like seeing me get smacked around! *I have two questions:* Uh-oh! *1. Do you think that Maggie would still be strutting and putting on the "show" for Big Daddy if Brick had told her that he was leaving her right after this? In other words, do you think she might do it so that Brick would inherit anyway, even if she were out of the picture?* No, not at all. She knows what it means to her (financially) to be with Brick. She speaks to this. Do I think she only wants the money? No, not at all. I believe she loves Brick. *2. Do you think that Big Daddy's estate, or part of it should be held in trust for Brick's future children if he were to have some? Or should all the money go to Gooper and Mae's kids right now, before Brick has had a chance to settle himself?* I think that's Big Daddy's decision. Me? I'm always for being fair, so I'd split it evenly.

*Good gravy, Mr. Grey.. you DO realize who you were talking to, don't you?? The "queen of thrifty".. ha.* Of course I do! That's why I have been surprised by your not understanding and valuing what Brick is saying to Big Daddy. And don't get me wrong, I'm all for toys and games and the like. I loved that stuff as a kid (still do) and I tend to be generous when I buy gifts for my cousins' kids. But that cannot be the emphasis. The emphasis must be on spending time with your children. I don't care what their age, they will benefit from you caring about them and what they are interested in and what they do. Having said that, I don't like controlling-types who manipulate and smother their children, though. Those kind of parents drive me nuts. They hide their need to control behind the caring. I'd also want my child to develop their own personality versus them being exactly like me. I find too many parents value themselves too much.

A very nice afternoon to you, Piecemaker -- *I think it is both, but read on and see why I think that is not a bad thing. Because, now see, this is where we go our separate ways. Because I don’t see her in as “dark” a light as you. You are making her motivation sound mercenary and sinister (on a baser level than what I think it was) True, she does want Brick get along with his dad as much for the money as for their relationship with him. But again, I don’t see that as BAD, but rather I see it as realistic. (because again, to have Big Daddy in your life, you also have his money)* I don't view Maggie as evil and sinister, though. I just know what she's up to. Her entire focus is to make sure her and Brick don't lose their piece of the pie. That's why they are there to greet Big Daddy. That's why she is buying gifts. That's why she is dressing "sexy." That's why her female insecurities and inadequacies (she doesn't have a child compared to the soon-to-be six of Sister Woman) are consuming her. {font:Calibri} *You know, All throughout the whole movie, she is trying to keep up appearances (perhaps in a somewhat obvious way), but it is all going on while she is trying to get Brick to work out his ISSUES. She doesn’t want their private issues with one another to be “all out there” for everyone, and yet, they already are. But just because of that, I don’t think she is trying to be “un-truthfully” nice to Big Daddy or put on a false show, just to win him over.* {font} I think you may be a little naive with her show. Yeah, she likes Big Daddy, but she's got the whipped cream with sprinkles and a cherry on top out. {font:Calibri} *She is in a fight (with Brick) for her life, (as his wife) and a completely DIFFERENT fight with her brother and sisterinlaw (and maybe even Brick in a way)for Brick’s birthright and it is a fight for their future. It is not that she values the money MORE than her marriage, or Big Daddy, or anything else. But she does understand that the money is a part of the “package” of being a part of that family.* {font} She has no faith in Big Daddy being able to think for himself, that he's gonna be wooed by shenanigans. I just don't see him being that stupid. I believe Brick understands his dad better than her and the rest. And I don't think she's in a fight for her life with the estate. With Brick and their marriage? Yes. But they can continue living without Big Daddy's money and estate. To think you can't survive without that is silly to me. {font:Calibri} *What SHOULD she have done? Just say, “Ok, Brick, honey. You win. Let’s go get a divorce and you can just go ahead and be as miserable as you want.” Because THAT is basically what he was wanting her to do, for pretty much the whole movie.* {font} That's right. Brick tells her to "take a lover." He's trying to push her out. But she doesn't want out, and I like that about Maggie. And, no, I don't think she's staying only because of the money. I believe she loves Brick.{font:Calibri} {font} *Really, when you think about it, WHO in their right minds wants to give up what they are entitled to just because they are disgusted at how everyone else around them is acting about it? (only Brick)* I still don't believe Brick is entitled to anything. It's up to Big Daddy to decide that. I'm not sure about this, but I believe Big Mama is the only who is entitled to anything. I don't buy into this "entitled" stuff. *{font:Calibri}Sure, he is tired of all the nonsense. (I think I already told you, if it were me, I wouldn’t last five minutes, ha. I’d be slapping those people around a bit) But really, there IS such a thing as “cutting off your nose to spite your own face” and let’s be honest, Brick had the scissors ready to start cutting. {font}* I just feel what he's going through is far more important to him than the money and estate. He's sick and tired of everyone choosing money over love. Someone has to take a damn stand, for once. I agree with him. *{font:Calibri}I mentioned this earlier but will say it again, I am glad he was able to get down to the REAL man behind the misery. It took FOREVER for him to finally be that REAL person that he was trying to wash away by all that booze. Yes, he was hurting, frustrated, angry, disgusted, and maybe even scared. But FINALLY he was being REAL. (and I think ultimately, that is the one thing Maggie was waiting for: a good healthy dose of reality to sink in. Because THEN he could be reasoned with. Then he could truly talk about what was bothering him, and how they could either fix it, or move on from it.){font}* Maggie plays an important part in all of that, too. But the key was Big Daddy and Brick wanting to air out their honest feelings versus lying to themselves and each other. The entire charade of love that the others were putting on is a lie. Brick's wallowing and self-pity is at least real, honest emotions. *{font:Calibri}I have some experience with this (at least through someone else), but someone I know very well and am close to had some issues with her husband several years ago. He was hurt and angry by something some very mean and dishonest people in their extended family were trying to do (to him and his wife), and he became so upset and hurt by all of it, that it caused him to almost completely shut down. He was making some very bad choices (that were going to have some pretty permanent consequences) for him and for her and their marriage, SOLEY because he was hurting and did not want to listen to reason. It became so ugly at one point that she says he was like a total stranger. She couldn’t talk with him, reason with him, or even get anything out of him but a “brick wall” sort of response. It looked very bad for both of them as a couple for about a week or so. But THEN (finally) he saw through the fog of all that hurt he was in, and realized that what he was doing was NOT fixing the problem, but making it worse. And then after he was “in his right mind” again, he could be reasoned with. She said it was like someone “turning a switch” back on in him, and she knew she had her husband back.{font}* Sometimes people need to hurt before they can heal. Not everyone can snap their fingers and be all better. But if you're hurting someone else in the process, that's never good. *And as for knowing what she is up to, hmmmm. I think that is true, but our definition of what she is “up to” is different, ha. Because yes, she wasn’t BLIND to his money. But she also didn’t LOVE him for it either. And I don’t think his money was THE thing that was making her be nice or behave in any certain way toward him. I think if anything, the BIGGER show Maggie may have put on was for SIsterWoman and Goober. (as in, “I’ll show THEM”) because she clearly saw THEM as the threat that they were. And she was not going to let them pull anything over on her (or make her look bad in their attempts to make themselves look good)* I think you'd have to watch the very first time we see Maggie. Maggie is so full of herself and caught up in the entire "game" and "show." It absolutely disgusts Brick so much that he points his crutch at her like a gun while she takes glee at her recalling the time Sister Woman had tobacco juice spit in her face at a parade. Maggie is very "ugly" at this point. Brick doesn't want her to be like this, just as she doesn't want him to be like he is. *{font:Calibri}Well, I can imagine that was hard on both you and your brother, but I also imagine that is a choice she has had to live with as well. Parents are human. And they sometimes make mistakes. Should your mom get a “pass” on the way she treated you and your brother when you were younger?? I don’t think that is a question that anyone but you and him can answer. But I can say that if a person truly SHOWS they have had a change of heart and mind, and if the parties that were injured can see their way past the past (so to speak) there CAN be room for forgiveness and the start of a new relationship free from the baggage of things that no longer pertain to who everyone is NOW. But IF is a big word, I know. {font}* You missed the point. It's not about forgiveness, it's about what a person does. It's about buying back lost time with money and gifts. Is that really making up for not being a mother? I don't believe so. This is Brick's point with Big Daddy. You can't just buy feelings. You can't just buy love. At least with those who value feelings and love. *{font:Calibri}I will go back to what I said earlier about this movie. You have honed in on what I think is THE most important theme in this story by the screencaps you are posting. I think this movie is MOST about Brick and how he eventually resolves his relationships with both his father.. and his wife.{font}* That is correct. It's mostly about a father and son and what's really important in a family. It's the time we spend together, not the money. A loving presence is worth far more than a gift-full absence. *{font:Calibri}One thing I don’t know if anyone has touched on is WHAT would have happened if Big Daddy had NOT been dying? Would EITHER Brick OR Big Daddy have had their “moment” of awakening and finally gotten their heads on straight to talk things out? Sad that we often wait until moments like THAT before we try to fix the things we know are broken in our own lives and our relationships with other. But that is how it goes sometimes. {font}* That's a fantastic question! I'd say they wouldn't come together without Big Daddy's situation.

Good sunny afternoon, Movieman -- *From what I remember of this even BD doesn't like the game but Maggie is more subtle about playing it.* That's precisely it. Maggie is using her looks, her charm, and even her sex appeal to win over Big Daddy's "love." That's more to Big Daddy's interest than all the other hullabaloo and noise over him. Maggie knows this. She's a smart girl. *What man, or woman, for that matter, wants to be "loved" because of his money?* Big Daddy does. He's all about his "Empire" until Brick schools him on some things. They both help each other. It's beautiful. *That may bring out the uglier side of BD. But isn't he looking for someone to measure up to his standards? If so, nobody that matters fits that bill and that galls him. He's embarrassed.* That's a good point. There really is nobody in the family that's him. He loves himself, so he needs somebody like himself to carry on his legacy. The closest is Brick, because he mostly respects Brick. *Brick may care about the money but not enough for him to play like the others.* I agree. He finds the behavior of others to be disgusting. If you spend your time kissing someone's rear, they'll never respect you. Not only that, where's your own self-respect? Brick is lacking in self-confidence, right now. He considers himself a failure and worthless. Still, he has enough self-respect not to kiss Big Daddy's tail like the others do. *Decision at Sundown* is similar to this in that Tate (John Carroll) looks to buy the town's love and respect and the town ends up losing their self-worth because they give in to this "buying." All but the Doc (John Archer) falls prey. Eventually, Morley (Ray Teal) wises up and tells us that the town had lost its soul. *I also think he is so steeped in self pity (or absorption) that he really doesn't care about anything. Nothing is going to make him happy. And I don't think it is a matter of principles.* Again, I agree. Brick doesn't feel like living anymore. He, himself, is committing suicide. He's numbing his senses. Conversely, Big Daddy refuses to take the morphine because he says that feeling pain means he's still alive because not feeling anything means you are dead. The two are mirrors. They are the story. *Maybe he's pretty sure he'd get the money anyway because he knows it would never be left to the other family members so he doesn't have to try and "get" it.* I think there's a lot to that. Everyone who is playing the "game," including Maggie, are not giving Big Daddy any kind of credit. They actually believe he'll fall for all of the phoney baloney love stuff they are shoveled on him and that will cause him to decide who gets what. Nonsense. I believe Brick knows his father better than anyone in that family. He knows him because he doesn't see him as just a bag of money. He's his pa. And I don't believe in this "entitled to" stuff, either. *Things don't equal love. Too many things given spoils how special gifts can be. "No" is not a bad word.* I was hoping someone would understand this. And you make an excellent point about gifts (and money) losing their value when they are common occurrences. And I definitely agree with you about the word "no." But, sadly, in today's "do whatever you wish" world, you are seen as a horrible person if you do so. This reminds me of the wonderful silent Jackie just suggested to me, *The Wonderful Lies of Nina Petrovna*. The final shot of that film speaks to all of this.

Hey there, Quiet Gal -- *1) She is Brick's wife and wants him to start treating her that way. She loves him, but oh me oh my, she is pretty disgusted with all the stuff he is putting her (and himself, and everyone else) through and she is fighting back.* I agree with that. Brick is blaming Maggie for what he thinks she did. He doesn't believe her side of the story. He's pretty much in denial. Maggie does wish to have Brick's love. I think she wants that the most. *2) She's a fighter.. and she is looking out for what is and should be hers and her husband's best interests. Because like it or not.. to have Big Daddy as a part of your life.. you have his money too. (and the reverse of that is just as true as well) She is not about to walk away from her (and her husband's) rightful standing in the family (and all that comes with it) just because Brick wants to yell and whine and look down his nose at all that "mendacity" going on around them.... especially when her husband is really just being a selfpitying jerk and clearly is not thinking about anyone or anything but himself and wallowing in his own misery.* Yes, Maggie doesn't want the other couple in the family to walk away with it all, especially since she knows how phony they are being. Brick disapproves of the entire charade and Maggie feels they must do as the others do. Brick ends up being right about doing it his way. He doesn't kiss Big Daddy's rear like the others do, including Maggie. *(And PS: Sure.. he ACTS like he's doing it because he is "above" all the greed and selfishness and disgusted by it.. but really.. he is just as selfish (maybe more so) than everyone else. Just for a different reason)* I definitely agree. And I did write that very same thing. *3) Not only does she love Brick, but she DOES love Big Daddy too, by the way. (and I think she likes him too, for the most part.* Again, I agree. But Brick definitely loves his father more than Maggie does. *And PS: he likes/loves her as well.. because she is not "for show" with her affection the way SisterWoman and Goober..and their little pack of "no-necks" are).* I think Big Daddy likes Maggie's "show" more than those others. He knows what she's up to, but he finds her to be alluring and charming. *Now does she think the sun rises and sets on that old man?? No. She is not blind... she KNOWS he can be a son of a _______ when he wants to be.. but to Maggie.. that is NOT the worst thing in the world and it is worth putting up with Because the WORST thing would be for him to turn his back on Brick.. (and her too by association) or for Brick to turn his back on ALL of them, and no one would be able to take it back out of foolish pride. So she ends up in a situation where she has to fight tooth and nail to keep things from escalating (on both sides of the fence between father and son) just to keep that from happening.* But what's the motivation of Maggie? Is she worried about Big Daddy not loving Brick or is she worrying about Big Daddy not leaving him anything? *Is she "perfect, pristine, and noble" in all her motivations? No.. maybe not. But she is honest.. at least about how she feels and treats Brick and his dad. You have to give her credit for that.* You're right, she is honest to Brick. She tells him she grew up poor and didn't wish to be that again. I do respect her for that. But the heart of the story is still about this: Instead of being a father or mother, we should just buy things for our children and that should let them know we love them. Why should we nurture and teach when we can buy them stuff? Geez, I really am old-fashioned. I'll tell you that my father mentions how his dad never went to any of he or his older brother's school events. He tells me this for a reason. It upsets him. He mentions how his grandpa would often go golfing with his rich friends whenever they (his grandkids) visited him. My dad isn't childish or spoiled. My mother left my father when I was around ten. She really didn't look to spend any time with me and my brother. Not until later. Does buying us gifts today make that better for us? Does that make her a mother to us when we were kids? With me, it doesn't. I don't see how money makes up for lost time. That is, unless, you value the money more than the people. If you love your mom, you love your mom, not her money. There are deeper issues at play. I love the commentary Tennessee Williams is making on what we leave behind. Can we ever buy away our guilt? Can we ever buy away the pain?

Howdy, Fordy Guns -- Great cap! And it really wasn't the money with Mary Kate. *She wanted him to regard her feelings but also her traditions. He was trying to say that the traditions of her family and culture weren't important.* I agree. It's not the money or the possessions with Mary Kate. *like you're saying that Maggie's wishes aren't important. If anything, Sean came to understand and concede as Brick needs to. To certain extent, he does when he backs Maggie up in a little "lie" at the end.* You got it with Brick. The real Brick shows up at the end. He's starting to feel good about life again. Look how the film ends: *It's his money by birthright, it's not like they're chasing something that doesn't belong to him. There is nothingwrong you know in the tradition of handing things down to your children.* I disagree. Big Daddy can leave his money to whoever he wishes. People can be written in or out of wills. *At least Big Daddy wants them to work at whatever satisfies them...didn't he offer to do anything for Brick so long as it made him happy? I know you'll turn up your nose like Brick did and whine "that isn't love" well it was his way of showing it and he obviously had feelings to show. He was trying to make up for not spending time with him and that's love. I just think the whole attitude you present isn't so high minded as you think. It's judgemental and self-pitying and weak.* I don't think buying off your guilt makes things square. At least with me, it doesn't. *Boy not me! He's not chasing a man's money he's simply accepting his own inheritence. Brick is being rude and obnoxious in his own parents' home, I don't think there's any defense for that. But then, he was always spoiled and I can never get into the heads of spoiled people. They are beyond me.* Brick is upset, just as Big Daddy is. Big Daddy blows off everyone's efforts for him on his birthday. He belittles his wife while she holds his birthday cake. So rude and obnoxious seems to be "inherited." But I do believe Brick's behavior is completely selfish and very childish. I understand it, though. *Well there's something so welpish about all this. I'm losing what little respect I had for Brick in this conversation. You actually paint him worse than I think he is! Point is he was SPOILED his whole life and I can't stand people who have been given so much who act like an injured party and judge their parents. Oh, brother. Williams doesn't let anyone get away clean.* Brick is far from innocent in all of this. I never said he was. What's behind his behavior is what I'm looking at. He lost his "best friend" to suicide and he blames himself. He's also struggling with the potential loss of his father, which can't be said of ANYONE else, including Maggie. He loves his father. *Jumping high hurdles in the Punch Bowl? Wow, that's real deep. Now I'm starting to see Sister Woman's point. * Brick is definitely struggling with his lost glory. Big Daddy is correct to call him a 30-year-old boy who will eventually become a 50-year-old boy. He's got some growing up to do. *He's not the unmitigated noble character you paint him out to be, he's self pitying and self-involved and amazing indifferent to other people.* I think you're focusing on Brick when he's hurt and damaged and attempting to drink all the pain away. He's not himself, at that point. Everyone else are themselves in the film, but he is not until later on. The real Brick eventually shows up.

*So why'd you post Mary Kate?* Mary Kate (Maureen O'Hara) wanted her "things" around her. She wanted to have her own home. But, ultimately, what she really wanted was for Sean (John Wayne) to understand her and to value her feelings and opinions. They needed to burn the money issue between them, together, before they could get on to what's most important. Once they got on the same page, they could really start to love each other. *I understand her. It took Mr Quiet Man a while to understand her. She wanted to "be somebody" too, to hold her head up.* That is correct. *Why can't you allow Maggie that?* I don't like the idea of chasing after a man's money, especially when someone is looking to do so for when he dies. That's ghastly, to me. But, thanks to your "Harry Fabian" comparison, I do see what you're saying and understand where she's coming from. Hey, no one wishes to be poor. *I'm not saying she's entirely right...or that Brick is entirely wrong, I just don't agree with saying Maggie is worse than Brick.* That's just my personal belief. I'm not saying I'm right. It's just if I had to choose which I find worse, wallowing in self-pity/guilt or chasing a man's money, I say chasing money. *She's being a wife and a fully committed partner in the marriage and he's NOT.* *Period. That's detestable and worse than anything she's doing.* He is definitely failing his end of the marriage but it's because he's blaming himself AND her for the death of his "friend." Life just doesn't matter to Brick. He's pretty much dead. Maggie deserves credit for trying to snap him out of it and FOR snapping him out if. She forced him to confront his issue. Brick wishes he were dead and Big Daddy is afraid he's dying. Brick feels like life isn't worth living without love and Big Daddy doesn't want to lose his Empire. It all seems very Shakespearean. *I disapprove of the mendacity, too, and it's true Maggie doesn't. She's not as emotionally mature, she just lives with it because she sees that's how people get along in the world. I often wish I were more like her and less like Brick.* Yes, I find Maggie to be very normal. We all are handed a script and we are to play our parts. Maggie is purely playing her part. Brick is refusing to play his. He's struggling with the mendacity of it all, the shallowness behind it all. He wants something more meaningful.

*Well, I look forward to a time when we won't have to, but until then it's what you need to breathe.* Yes, some. *And you don't understand the female mindset that wants something to call her own, something real not just struggling.* She has something, something very real. *I'm sure Maggie would have loved to visit Big Daddy every day, she couldn't get Brick to go.* I'm not sure that was possible. Pick up the phone! Big Daddy knew what was up. *I just see a lot of judging of the parents by the children. It's hard not to, but they often lose sight of what rotten children they are, too.* I think Brick comes around to this. *She said enough about how harsh her childhood was for me to know exactly how it was, just as much as Goober said about his or is said about Brick's. You just don't want to believe she has justification. But men are always judging women by harsher standards.* Good point. Maggie really is similar to "Harry Fabian," in that regard. She sees a way out of her struggling. It's similar to Harry forging. You're right. *I totally see where Deborah Kerr is coming from in The Sundowners, too. I think she's rather like Maggie more than you'd think. She's a woman.* Ida (Deborah Kerr) is sick and tired of living on the "rails." To her credit, she has done it for years just because she knew it was what Paddy (Robert Mitchum) wanted and she felt it's all they could afford. But she has reached a point where she wants to settle down. So has their young boy. Paddy wants to be selfish out of his own fears, but he comes realize his family is more important than himself. But, what's so wonderful is Ida was prepared to continue on, no matter what. How lovely. *The Proud Rebel* also features a similar decision about constantly moving versus settling down. It also features a decision about money versus love. Yeah, Jackie would absolutely love what happens and what wins out. It's another great father/son film, with a real-life father/son duo. It's such a loving picture. *I think he thinks he needs absolutely nothing from Bid Daddy, even love. He seeks to avoid him the entire movie. It's Goober that's seeking and dying for love and attention and has been poisoned to think that it's got to come in the form of the inheritance and nothing else. Brick is cold and unresponsive until Maggie and BD pry him open.* I disagree. I think Brick is hiding. He's avoiding the confrontation. Both he and Big Daddy are struggling with this. They are similar. Eventually, both are forced to confront it and all the truth inside starts to pour out. Brick disapproves of the "mendacity" of the family. Such a phony show.

*I never said anything about placing it above love...you hate any kind of valuing of money, above or below love.* Yes, I don't like the valuing of money. *You think a man should father children if he hasn't a dime to provide for them,* No, I think that's selfish. But it happens quite a bit. *you think if he "loves" them yet lets them starve that's noble. I think that's hatred and self-love of the cruelest order.* Once you have a child or a wife, you must do what you can for them. You don't make such commitments in life unless you are willing to do your part. *Such people should never have children, and it's shocking that they often produce the most and leave them to scrounge. Pathetic.* Human nature is often selfish. We're all selfish in our many ways. *I can see why Big Daddy had a hard time in life getting started!* Definitely. His father really did put him in a spot. And I can certainly see how he'd work his tail off to have something since his father had nothing. *You give that squirrel Harry Fabian all kinds of breaks for putting money above all else but not Big Daddy or Maggie! Double Standard!* I just understand the male mindset of "Harry Fabian." He wants to be "somebody." He wants to be his own boss. That's the same with Big Daddy. *I did say that...that if he can make a go on his own why didn't he. Oh, he didn't like his job. Poor him. However, there's no disgrace in accepting help from his parents so long as he doesn't let it make him into a Goober.* He was wallowing in guilt and self-pity over the suicide of his "best friend." I can understand that. Remember, Brick and Maggie are only there for Big Daddy's birthday. He keeps wanting to go back home. And, remember, Big Daddy makes a point to Maggie that he's had birthdays in the past but nobody came to see him then. *I agree with that, but it also sounds like he never even as a kid got much attention from his parents. They favored Brick from the start. It's not an excuse, but it reveals where the sins of the father lay.* That is correct. Big Daddy likes and respects Brick more than Goober. His being a successful athlete is probably a big part of it. *And lets face it, most railway bums leave their kids behind without ever laying eyes on them again, so the grandpa is a little romanticized here.* Of course. But the point is he spent time with his son. They stayed together. *Yet you won't grant Maggie the same insecurities after the horrors of her childhood. She's supposed to be untainted from them and content to ride a boxcar. Grotesque that people call THAT love.* But lots of people can say they were "poor" when they weren't. That's the point of the film. I don't know how Maggie was treated by her parents. *The Sundowners* and *The Proud Rebel* are two more films I just watched that have some similarities to this. Each of those speak to settling down and what's important in life. I don't know if Jackie has seen *The Proud Rebel* or not, but if she hasn't, she needs to watch it. It's definitely her kind of film. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa5A4tl7jj0 *One can often hate no one so hard and judge so unfairly as a blood relation.* Right. But we know what Brick is seeking from Big Daddy.