FrankGrimes

well april, even i am getting pushed aside by frankie over here lately. heehee! i dont really mean that by the way... I wouldn't push you aside. Shove? Yes. But not push. frankie, did you see the word "effeminate" by any chance? Yes. we said he was the complete opposite! heehee! he is a very macho ballet dancer compared to a lot of others darlin' frankie. you should see White Nights and you'll be totally convinced that he is totally beautiful, but not effeminate. I definitely know what you meant, but I'm just not buyin' it all.

Now don't twist my words! I said what I LIKED bout Mischa was that he was NOT effiminate. You really are an Attorney-at-law, always trying trip people up. Who's twisting words? You said he's NOT effeminate. I don't think the Duke would agree with you on that one. I wonder what Jackie Ford would say. Theresa, can you straighten him out....please? You seem to be the only one who can put him in his place these days. You just love to run to Sweet T the moment you find trouble, Mrs. Doniphon. Her puppy dog eyes cannot help you. And what place would you like to place me in? A lonely one? Ahhh, but you know that's where I want to be. And why don't you tell Duke yourself? He and I are waiting patiently back in Shinbone. Patiently now, impatiently soon. I'm hoping for hands on hips and foot tapping.

And here I thought you were a gal who liked Men not men. Man, you're quickly losing your credibility. And do you actually think I'm gonna take your word on what a "real woman" is after all this "he's not effeminate" stuff? Go ask the Duke about "Mischa."

So many male ballet dancers are effiminate but "Mischa" was definitely not, which is why I liked him so much. First it's Gary Cooper in lipstick and now this. It's getting ugly, I mean, pretty in here mighty fast.

Here?s some bonus chest hair for you too because I know how much it drives you wild! I'll take Kim's suggestion for me.

Howdy, Mrs. Doniphon! -- I see that I struck a nerve with you. A good nerve. I like it when you write that much about anything, but especially about something you deeply care about. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your thoughts and feelings about many aspects of The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. It's what I expect from someone as perceptive and wise as you. That's not sop... or blarney, for that matter. Howdy Mr. Stoddard's Champion: I like being the champion for certain people. Thank you for posting your comments. OK, now that sop is out of the way I can start tearing them apart. It's always great to see the vengeful Goddess. It makes life more interesting. You asked for it. MY own opinionated opinions. I'll start off with saying I think you are idealistic and you see those qualities in Ranse and you seem to think they outweigh his failings or they keep his failings "in the shadows" from you. I agree with you. I'm very idealistic and I may very well be blind to his failings. What you call "being in love" I call infatuation and I think she only thought the object of her affection was Ranse---what she really was taken by was what he had to offer. And I don't blame her one bit. The toughest thing for me in regards to figuring out Hallie and her love for Ranse and/or Tom is that she never kisses either of them on the lips. Ford never shows us such affection, and I find this to be a brilliant touch. We, the audience, are never permitted to see Hallie truly linked with love. We are left to guess her feelings. I'm not sure I'd say Hallie was "infatuated" with Ranse, but I also must say that my own statement of her being in love with Ranse is also rather loose. I have a question for you (or others). When do you think Hallie started to have feelings for Ranse? Was it immediately? She seemed very interested in Ranse while she was nursing (mothering) him. She was very struck by Ranse defending a woman against Valance and his gang. However, I am willing to give the devil her due and agree with you that she did fall in love with him and I most definitely believe she cares about him, loves him, in the present but not in a real man-woman way. More like affection based on gratitude, pity and years of living together. It may not sound like I am agreeing with you on this ONE point, but in a way I am. Well this is not going well at all. I'm in agreement with you. I do believe Hallie's love for Ranse in the present is based on gratitude, pity, and "routine." She's accepted her situation more so than fought it. Ranse came for the same reason they all did at that time: for opportunity. And like a lot of somewhat phoney people he thought he could mix up his ambitions with the lofty-sounding idea of "improving" and "civilizing" the west. This he sincerely came to believe, I'm sure. This is true. However, the attack on the stagecoach and then the town's indifference to the law is really what sparked him. He found a cause. Was it a selfish cause? Yes, because he was personally wronged, so there was a lot of selfishness involved. But I also think he truly believed the cause would help the town, too. He felt as if he could make a difference. But just as we're shown that Gatewood (in Stagecoach) stole the money and took off because of the very understandable reason of being trapped in marriage to a virago, it doesn't make him a "hero". Ranse's attitude toward Shinbone (and its inhabitants) was at times contemptuous and condescending---and again, I don't blame him. But that doesn't mean he wasn't a basically nice, decent guy. Ford knows what rats basically nice, decent guys can be. And after what Liberty did to Ranse, I'm amazed he didn't immediately hightail it back East. I must say that I do not see as much condescension and contempt as you, Bronxie, and Lynn do. This must be the blind spot you speak of with me. I believe Ranse was frustrated by the others' "who cares" attitude towards Liberty Valance and his violence against innocent people. He couldn't understand why nobody wanted to throw him in jail. Everyone in Shinbone just let Valance get away with murder. I think Ranse was right. Why doesn't someone stand up to Valance for the the community's sake? Why? And we all know who could call out Valance and demand a showdown. Tom can take matters into his own hands if he really wanted to. But he chose not to. Tom truly is the sheriff of Shinbone yet he chooses not to take on that responsibility. Why? What's he scared of? Tom basically let Ranse fight what should have been his battle. Valance should have been taken out long before Ranse was attacked. Was Ranse condescending while teaching the community how to read and write? Is this where you feel an air of elitism? I will say that Ranse is VERY condescending as a Senator. One of his most condescending lines he utters is after he gives Pompey some many and tells him, "pork chop money." Those are cold, cold words. That moment was definitely meant to be a political statement by Ford. It was heavy-handed WHAT? (voir rouge). How can something so oblique be "heavy handed". Overruled, Mr. Stoddard. I like your style, judge. May counsel approach the bench? You're right, it's not truly "heavy-handed" but it wasn't hidden, either. Pompey is the one who is standing up in front of the class (us), not a white person. It's a clear civil rights message and it was there for that purpose. I'm thankful John Ford had the cojones to do such a scene. I greatly admire that kind of courage. That makes more sense than your previous statement. And I will agree with all of it. But guess what? You say he gave her confidence. Look again. Who is this woman come to Shinbone with the "man who shot Liberty Valance". This isn't the confident, straight, outspoken woman of spirit we see in the flashback. She's "grey" and I don't mean her hair or frail health. Her whole personality seems to be in eclipse. This isnt' just mourning for Tom, either. She looks like she's become stifled and used to keeping quiet. She would HAVE to be that way because she could NOT be the wife of a Senator who went on to a diplomatic career otherwise. She has learned not to question or speak up during all the years of chicanery, B.S., lying, intrigue and double-talk she's witnessed from her new world, and sadly, from her own husband. So she's actually "lost" herself and her own ideas. Guess what? Uh-huh. We're in agreement... AGAIN. You are absolutely right. Hallie has clearly lost her identity. She no longer feels needed. She's second fiddle. The confidence I was speaking of was when Hallie started to fall for Ranse. Ranse did instill confidence in Hallie back then. He taught her how to read and write and she was asked to help lead the classroom with him. Hallie finally had a world outside of the restaurant. A world she took great delight in. At least with Tom she had her own ideas and he didn't try to change her. He liked it when she spoke up to him----Ranse would NOT have liked it. Many seemingly easygoing men don't. Can't you just see the years of Ranse saying to her after one of her outburst---"Now...now Hallie, you can't say those things around here like that..just...just have a little care and learn how to handle these people." How nauseated that must have made her feel. This made me laugh out loud and it's because it's so very true to me. I'm sure the politically-powerful Ranse was very CONDESCENDING with Hallie. He probably treated her like a child. She had to "know her place" and "play her role." Sounds exciting, doesn't it? You're very right about Tom enjoying Hallie's fire. I know I love Hallie's fire. Those are the kind of women that are fun to be around. Ranse handled Hallie's fire differently. Instead of smiling at her fire, he would attempt to soothe it. He also jumped at Hallie's fire: her ringing the bell and shooting him a glare when he was late for class. But I definitely agree with you about Hallie's personality changing for the worse through time. She had lost her fire, just as Tom did. Ranse's fire was blazing. Was. Those cactus flowers have put it out. He didn't go out west to change the world---he went west for opportunity. Yes, but the attack on the stagecoach and him changed his mindset. You were doing alright when you talked of the good things Ranse brought to Shinbone because that is certainly true. That's his good side. You are right too (I'm gagging) to say Tom was selfish in some ways---everyone is. But he wasn't specifically in the way you mean. He didn't "deal with" Liberty YET. He probably would have, eventually. What did you want? Him to gun him down? Provoke a fight so he could kill him? Because that's pretty much all he could do. Yet? Was he ever going to deal with Liberty? Was he ever going to marry Hallie? Tom seemed too content with the world as it was because HE was very comfortable. I personally don't condemn him for that. In fact, I'm a lot like Tom when it comes to that. How could Tom deal with Liberty? Take charge. He was the real sheriff of Shinbone. Everyone in town knew it AND Liberty knew it. Tom could have told Liberty to never show his face in town ever again unless he wanted to die. That's what a strong sheriff would do. I now must ask you, do you believe you could be blind to Tom's failings just as I am blind to Ranse's? I think you may be interested to know that I most definitely like Tom more than Ranse. Why? Because he was BRAVE to put the happiness of the woman he loved above all else. He had Hallie on a pedestal, which is something Ranse never did. I'm someone who believes in placing the woman you love on a pedestal. Tom, the brash-talkin' tough guy, is the one with the heart. And Ranse had to know what his Shinbone efforts could lead to---he was an ambitious opportunist and I don't say that like it makes him evil. It makes him typical and human. The one who seems a hero is really a very flawed man with comlicated motives, and the "loser" really had noble and purer motives, even if they were wrong (from society's standpoint) motives. That's what I get from an examination of these two interesting characters. Ooohh, I like that. Wrong, wrong, wrong! It's ridiculous to question Tom's bravery----do you honestly think he wouldn't have had the guts to face him? That's absolutely NOT true. He was smart enough to know that it had to look like Ranse did it because a man knows another man doesn't want to know someone did his job for him. It would have obliterated Ranse if Tom just strode in, pushed him aside and faced Liberty for him. Besides---Liberty correctly called it when he said to Tom it was their fight---not his. Tom also was doing this FOR HALLIE and he knew she had to believe in her man. Such as he was, he was her choice. Now...now Goddess, you can't say those things around here like that..just...just have a little care and learn how to handle these people. :p You are correct, once Liberty calls out Ranse, it's out of Doniphon's hands. But Tom surely had his chances to call out Liberty before that time. He probably had many chances. He chose not to. He deferred. I think you're wrong again (that feels better). Somebody's cute. He was not wearing a gun because he gave up. He was a walking suicide and didn't care if he lived or died. He murdered a man in cold blood, lost everything, and that finished him. He wanted no more reminder of the past and every time he looked at his gun it would bring it all back. What you are probably close to being right about is how the town's point of view of him probably changed. In their eyes he became a loser, he shrank, he wasn't the one they all expected would take care of Liberty. I agree with you that Tom was basically a dead man living without Hallie AND his standing in Shinbone. Remember, Tom shot Valance with a shotgun and not a hand gun. The hand gun is for quick draws and short-range challenges. The town no longer had such trouble, hence the need to carry a hand gun had gone by the wayside. I do believe Tom not packing heat was symbollic of his losing his manhood. He was no longer a man in his own mind. Oddly enough, I believe Tom and Hallie were living the exact same lives while apart. They both were no longer needed . They felt useless. They had lost their souls. Any questions, counsellor? Ohhh, you are very good. Beautiful arrangement and commentary of the screen caps, Franklin. Of course, I disagree with many of your comments but like Bronxgirl said---who is very much more fair and objective than I---it proves what a grand movie it is that gets people to see so many different things in it. Actually, I think you are very fair and quite objective. I also believe you and Bronxie are very similar when it comes to letting your heart and feelings be heard. Bronxie doesn't hold back on what SHE believes and feels. Neither should you. Here is what I "see" in the Ranse/Hallie relationship: All right! Ranse is a decent, nice guy with fine ideas and he unselfishly wants to impart them to others, particularly to Hallie. He sees a start in her of the work he could accomplish. I think his motives are already mixed even at this point but entirely unbeknownst to him. Haven't you noticed that Ranse never really shows that much interest in Hallie on his own? He responds to her...he reacts to her and then comes to love her. But I put it to you that almost any woman could have done the same. He's not really thinking about love at all and it's Hallie who is clearly pushing the thing to happen. He's "teaching" her yes, many things, but I don't think it's entirely selfless on his part. He likes the way she and the others look up to him so in this respect he and Tom are much alike. I firmly believe Ranse always loved himself first and foremost and Hallie is almost an afterthought. Wow! That was excellent! I'm in complete agreement with you. Ranse never takes the initiative with Hallie on the "love" front. She's the one who is drawn to him more than the other way around. But I must tell you, I believe a huge reason why this is so is because Ranse actually greatly respects Tom. He knows that Hallie is Tom's girl. I believe Ranse is being a gentleman. So is it that I'm being foolishly naive here or am I correct? Remember, Ranse is surprised to hear Tom informing him that Hallie is his girl when he shows him the room and porch he's adding to his house. Ranse says that everyone in town understands that Hallie is his girl, including him. Was he lying? I don't think he was. Hallie is the one person who doesn't see herself as Tom's property. Why do I think Ranse greatly respects Tom? Well, who does Ranse nominate as the delegate for Shinbone? Tom. And the entire room erupts. What does Tom do? He refuses to accept the nomination. Why? Because he fears Ranse taking his girl. I contend that Tom's life has been all about refusing responsibility. He could have taken many important matters into his own hands, like ridding the town of Valance, but he didn't. Was it his duty to do such things? No, of course not. But he could have taken on those responsibilities if he wanted to. He didn't want to. Ranse is who pushes Tom to do things he wouldn't normally do because Tom fears Ranse is winning his girl's heart. His fears were correct, too. I also think Hallie's physical gestures toward him seem to say "mother" not "lover". Definitely. If Ranse represents the father of civilized society, Hallie represents the mother. She's the First Lady. Tom, on the other hand, constantly makes overtures in spite of his taking her for granted. He seeks her out, brings her gifts and as for the room he's building---Hallie unmistakably knew about it. You can't keep something like that a secret in such a small community. More agreement. This is evidence for Bronxie's belief that Hallie was the one dragging her feet on marriage not Tom. I still believe it's Tom, but I believe Bronxie's belief may very well be right. The scene when Tom announces he's off north of the Picket Wire is an ambiguous, interesting one. I think she knows it's a crossroads, but she also must be aware that Tom isn't thinking this way --- yet. Maybe she's also wondering why he would leave her at just such a critical time---alone with a man who is exerting a large influence over her already. It might seem to her that Tom doesn't care and that he's abandoning her. "Couldn't he have sent some of his ranch hands to do this job?" she might be saying to herself. Ambiguous is the right word. I believe that scene is the most fascinating in the film because of its ambiguity. Hallie's "goodbye" to Tom makes the scene play as a breakup to me. Beginning with when Tom jokes about Ranse being a "ladies man". That was mean but it's typical of how men can roust eachother, Guys will often put other guys down in front of their woman out of jealousy and fear. Hallie has taken a shine to Ranse and Tom recognizes it. He's worried about losing Hallie. This is yet more evidential proof for Bronxie's contention that Hallie was the hold-out on marriage. but what struck me is that when all is said and done, it's actually TOM who's the ladies man, not Ranse! Ranse never acts lover-like with Hallie and I don't think it's just because he doesn't want to infringe on Tom's claim---I think it's just not in him to behave that way. He's too self-absorbed and a bit uptight. While I do believe Tom was being respectful to Tom's "claim," I also agree with you that Ranse is self-absorbed and not very romantic. He's the one always seeking the attention. Tom, on the other hand, "Mr Macho", gets himself all prettied up, best suit and tucker (and probably smells nice---took a bath) and brings Hallie a present---a cactus rose. He compliments her. He flourishes his hat. Everything about the way he looks at her and talks to her is at odds with his taking her for granted. Maybe Ranse's presence prompted all this attention. Because Hallie almost looks surprised by it. I'm beginning to wonder more and more if maybe Bronxie is on to something about Hallie and Tom. It's almost like she never considered him in the light of a lover. I think you are correct in stating Ranse's presence pulls the "romantic Tom" out of the closet. Tom's comfortable world has been shaken and he's out to restore it. Maybe she always saw him as a friend or a big brother type??? But I can't imagine she wouldn't have known about the room, unless she just shrugged it off. Tom said everybody "took it for granted" that she was his girl---except for Hallie and Ransom. Hmmmmm. What I'm wondering is, when did Tom start building this extra room and porch? Did he start before Ranse arrived in town or after? Did Ranse's arrival give Tom a kick in the fanny? Another scene. When Hallie has her little outburst over Ranse's decision to leave Shinbone---I think partly she is disappointed for herself---that he cares so little for her---but partly I think she really is disappointed he's letting her down regarding facing Liberty. I think Hallie has the same values as most of the westerners in that community---she thinks a man doesn't back down from a fight like this. But she's conflicted, because she doesn't want Ranse killed, either. Ideal solution? Get Tom to fix the situation. I agree with that. Hallie always runs to Tom to bail her out of tough spots. She is definitely angry at Ranse for not standing up Valance but her reasons for the anger are arguable for sure. I'm positive that she doesn't want Ranse to flee because what she wants out of life is with Ranse. Ranse represents her happiness. If he flees town, she will go back to being what she was. Her dreams will die. So Ranse does indeed represent hope and happiness for Hallie, which is evidence towards Hallie not truly being in love with Ranse but loving what he has done for her. You may be winning me over with the "love" part. Very observant, Frank, about the apron strap and about the pictures of Peabody and Lincoln. With your eye you really ought to direct. Thanks for such a wonderful compliment. I'm more reactive than proactive, though. Here's Tom bossing Hallie around. He's TELLING her to go back to where she belongs. In essence, go back to him. Before Ranse showed up, all Hallie did was take orders. She's a waitress and you get the feeling Tom always got his way. He knows what's best for her at all times. He'll do the thinking for the both of 'em. Here's Tom being very selfish. He's attempting to take away what has become Hallie's passion and love. What I find interesting about this cap is that Tom is basically telling Hallie, there's no school if there are guns ablazin'. This goes to Ranse's argument that all this gunplay must stop if Hallie and Shinbone are to improve. Tom's belief is in the gun and Hallie is on Ranse's side. The next three caps tells us that Hallie doesn't like Tom's belief that he "owns her." That she is "his girl." Hallie thinks otherwise. And Hallie says these words to Tom in honest anger. She's not having an "emotional outburst." Her anger is deadly serious and meaningful. How does Tom take Hallie's honest feelings and emotions? Like he's always done before. He laughs at them and tells her she's "pretty." It's VERY CONDESCENDING and Hallie hates it. You get the feeling that Tom always pulls out the "pretty" line when Hallie is angry or bothered or frustrated or upset. He doesn't cater to her feelings. I also believe Tom doesn't take anything really seriously in life. He tends to smirk at it all. If he would take things seriously, he'd be married to Hallie. But he's always traveling at his own speed. This is the "selfish Tom." By the way, a little tip to guys, make sure you take your woman's anger seriously. You don't want to laugh and smirk. The following sequence of caps shows Ranse as a defeated man and Hallie being surprised and disappointed in Ranse's decision to "erase the board." Ranse now understands what Tom has been saying all along that an act of force will be necessary to protect and thusly build Shinbone. Ranse tells Hallie to "make it up" with Tom. Is this the act of a man in love? If it is, it's a sacrificial move. I believe Ranse isn't in love with Hallie at this point, and, like the Goddess has stated, maybe he never truly was "in love" with Hallie. Maybe he just liked that she gave him loving attention. I'm not sure. The next two caps are from the beautiful silent scene featuring Hallie. It's one of my favorite moments in the film. This first cap shows Hallie looking at HER bell. The bell represents responsibility for Hallie because she is in charge of ringing that bell for class to start and end. It's something she loves. That bell (classroom) makes her feel important. She doesn't want to lose it. In this cap, you see Ranse leaving through the window as Hallie calls out for him. It's interesting to me because Hallie is calling for Ranse instead of Tom. She's running to Ranse because of the classroom. Hallie runs out to the street, yelling for Ranse. She fears he's leaving town at the first sign of trouble. Hallie is VERY disappointed when Ranse tells her to "dimiss the class." The classroom means so much to her. How much does the class mean to Hallie? So much so that she makes sure to tell everyone, "same time tomorrow!" Tomorrow is VERY important to Hallie; big picture-wise. When Tom returns to Shinbone, he seeks out Pompey. He berates Pompey in front of the classroom. Why? Because Pompey has neglected to do his work. What kind of work? Working on Tom's house. On one hand, Pompey needs to be doing his work. But, on the other hand, Pompey is attempting to better himself through learning. The key words from Tom are "wastin' your time." It's clear that Tom doesn't value the school like others in the community do. In fact, he values his house more. But I will say that if Pompey is getting paid to work, he needs to be workin'. I'm sure Ranse could teach him later on.

Hi, Kylefornia! -- OK. Let me see if I understand. Grace = Good. Jean Arthur / Helen Hayes = Bad. Jean Arthur is good and I actually don't have an opinion on Helen Hayes. It's just that Grace Kelly is the Princess, so I'll enjoy any poster she's on. "Hitch" = Good. "Pappy" = Bad. David O. = Desperate. David O is not desperate, just that one minor film he did. That's desperate. Gawd. I'll be happy when "31 Days..." is done so I can go back to being impulsive. (Actually, I have most of March already planned out.) But if this keeps up, it might go off without a "Hitch" or a "Fritz" or a "Mini-Cooper". "12 Days for 'movieman1957' " sounds really appealing about now. I could go for a "12 Days of Movieman." I'm sure he wouldn't put us through the constant Coop/Ford kiss-ups. Loved the High Noon poster. Oops. Did I just get lipstick on you? Sorry. I'm trying to emulate Coop's style.

Why the stills from the movie????????? I believe they help illuminate what I speak of or what others speak of. They can also help convey my state of mind and/or feelings. Film is a visual medium, after all.

I vote we kill him. All in favor? The Hanging Tree?

Hi, Jack -- Welcome to the board! Why do you feel compelled to add pictures from the movies? Discuss the movie, disect it if you must but we don't need to see a graphic of what you are talking about. Since film is a visual medium, I believe seeing images from a film helps to enhance my words and posts. I also believe images are a unique form of communication. They will often say things words cannot. I particularly like the combination of the two. Ultimately, I guess I'm just greedy. I don't want to eliminate black-and-white because of color or destroy silent because of sound. Must I choose? It sounds as if you want me to choose only one form of communication. Is that what you wish for me to do? Especially LARGE one? I usually resize my caps not to blow out a thread, but if another member has already blown a thread out, I don't always resize. It usually depends on the thread where I post. I look forward to reading your words on film.

You got Vera Cruz! I love that movie. I'm thinking that's a Coop film I may enjoy quite a bit. By the way, who's the tall chick in those photos Whistling Gypsy posted? I love her lipstick! Hot and sexy! Lol! Girls---don't let him get away with that! Badges? I'm not afraid of no stinkin' badges! I'm just wondering how much lipstick Coop's girl has to wipe off her face in those Coop dreams of hers. I bet Coop gives her make-up tips before they make out. A guy has to look his prettiest at all times. Even prettier than his girl.

oh yes! i have such cute little avatars i could use. they are raining on our parade!!!! heehee! we should all go on a strike. I say y'all should go on strike. Immediately! Could you, please? Pretty please. By the way, who's the tall chick in those photos Whistling Gypsy posted? I love her lipstick! Hot and sexy!

Ooooh, that scene makes me hungry. Oh yeah? What are you hungry for, "healthy" food? Blech. I love the pins in her hair, by the way.

A beautiful scene, quite unlike any other in movies when you think about it. Poor Scarlett, dreaming she's wandering lost in the dark and the fog....the dark and the fog? A film noir! I told you so! It's a very dark film. Scarlett IS my very favorite femme fatale, though. Rhett couldn't resist grabbing that tigress by the tail. I'm pretty sure Rhett will look to grab her tail later on, too. That's my epilogue.

My Main MANN, ChiO -- I think that we all would agree that in the case of certain films, the casting decisions are paramount. I'm with ya. Viv's portrayal of "Scarlett" has actually become my favorite female performance to date. Can you tell I'm a sucker for emotionally-erratic women? Scarlett is at the top of the heap for me. For GWTW, as an example, the casting of Vivian Leigh was extremely important and, given the number of actresses considered and given screen tests, it would not be a stretch to conclude that the director of the screen tests was the most critical element of the movie's success. Is that so? Hmmmm. Mischief is afoot. Coincidently, I just happened to learn today in starting to read a book critically analyzing the work of a certain director, that Selznick plucked him from Broadway semi-obscurity and hired him as a talent scout and director of screen tests for several movies, including GWTW. The director? Why, Anthony Mann, of course. Now begins a complete reevaluation of the movie. Fascinating! I never knew this. Selznick does have an eye for talent: Mann and Lewton. P.S. Mann also directed the screen tests for REBECCA. I didn't know this, either. The Rebecca DVD has some screen test footage on it, too. The shots are very basic; not much movement in the scenes that were included on the DVD. Luckily there is no evidence that Samuel Fuller or John Cassavetes directed screen tests for any John Ford movies. If otherwise, my entire world would be turned upside down. That one got a huge laugh out of me. How can one write a Mann book without delving into his films noir? Hola, My Main Pain, Goddess -- Well, perhaps she's some kind of angel, sweet I'm not sure about. Scarlett is a very sweet angel... in her own special way. I adore that scene! Scarlett is so very much herself! She doesn't care a thing in the world if only she can have fun. That ball has so many moments like that...when she pretends to give her wedding ring "for the cause" and when she's seen tapping her feet when she's supposed to be a serious and decorous young widow. And Rhett sees it all. Did I mention that Scarlett was an unselfish sweet angel?

I just cannot get on you for this one, Kyle. You split the difference. I can put up with a Cooper poster that features Grace. She's also wearing pink!

Delete some old messages, Mr. Grimes, my message won't go through for "some unknown reason." Stop being mean about the situation! I have absolutely no idea why a message from you wouldn't get through to me.

Hallie realizes Tom was adding on to make room for her. Hallie pulls the box closer to her on the carriage as if she is pulling Tom closer to her. Doniphon's name is being said while we also see a framed portrait of Mr. Peabody. Hallie, Link, and Pompey all look to Ranse to see his response. They all know the truth. Ranse looks into Hallie's eyes. After all these years, Ranse has decided to come clean. Hallie takes care of Ranse while Tom "mocks" his protecting a woman. Hallie is impressed while Tom feels jealous. I like the next sequence of caps because we first see Hallie angry at Tom but she soon lightens up after he pays her a compliment. Hallie AND Nora are embarrassed she (they) cannot read. Nora's face is an honest one while Hallie's is a dishonest one. She's trying to laugh off her hurt. Ranse is quickly able to get back in good graces with Hallie by apologizing to her. He's very kind to her. Ranse shows confidence in Hallie. He believes in her, which will go a long way with her. Ranse also pays Hallie a wonderful compliment by telling her she's smart. Hallie lacks self-esteem, so she really responds to such encouragement. Hallie takes her "trapped" frustration out on Link and his daily routine. Immediately after yelling at Link, Hallie smiles excitedly at Ranse. Ranse has lifted her spirits. She's starting to feel hopeful. Ranse offers Hallie the potential of a bigger world and she dreams it to be. Liberty Valance enters the restaurant and Hallie's reaction is of fright. She's very worried about Ranse's well-being. Tom mocks Ranse's idealistic thoughts of a town without violence. The irony is that Tom "thanks" Ranse for "saving his life." Hallie once again comforts Ranse. She's clearly concerned about him. Tom walks in on Hallie and Ranse and Hallie quickly jumps to her feet as if she's been caught cheating on him. Well, in a way, she is. The following sequence of caps is very interesting to me. It's very grey for me. Tom tells Hallie that he's leaving town for a few days. She turns around and looks him in the eyes and says, "goodbye." Hallie watches Tom leave into the night. Does this signify they are finished as a "couple"? Is she worried about Ranse's safety with Tom out of town? Does this show that she still has feelings for Tom? I'm not sure. Any thoughts?

Tom confronts Ranse about his involvement with Hallie. He wants Ranse to know he's gonna marry Hallie but Ranse knows the situation. But does he truly? Is Ranse in the dark when it comes to Hallie's growing love for him? Is BronxGirl correct about Hallie being the one who has been putting marriage off with Tom? How long has Tom been "building that room"? Tom refuses the nomination because he's not thinking of Shinbone, he's thinking about his future with Hallie. Who can blame him? I know I would be. Sadly, his "other personal plans" are not to be. Hallie gets angry at Ranse for running away from Liberty Valance and the school, right? No. She's angry at him for running away from her. Hallie is in love with Ranse and she doesn't want him to go. Hallie and Ranse finally share their feelings of love for each other. He decided to stand up to Valance for her and she is killing herself over the thought that Ranse could have been killed. This cap takes on a different meaning later (earlier) on in the film: I believe this is the only time Hallie kissed either Ranse or Tom in the film. She gently kisses Ranse's forehead a few times. Once again, Tom walks in on Hallie and Ranse. This time, Ranse is in Hallie's arms. What I absolutely love about the following two caps is that Hallie has her one strap down but she pulls it up. It's as if she was naked in front of Tom. And if you check the position of the strap in the preceding cap, you'll see she would have been "exposed" if she were naked. The following cap features one of my favorite lines in the film. Tom is definitely too late (with Hallie) yet he was right on time (with saving Ranse). "I'll be around." The line of a jilted lover. The line also works because Doniphon was always around for Hallie. Ranse sees the cactus flowers. Even though he asks Hallie later on about who placed the cactus flowers on Tom's coffin, he knows. He's just afraid he's lost Hallie forever. Has he? Hallie doesn't hesitate in answering Ranse. This worries Ranse to no end. Hallie is unafraid to admit her feelings for Tom now. The portrait of Abraham Lincoln over Pompey's shoulder is a nice touch by Ford. Ranse's classroom gives Hallie something to look forward to each and every day. She's starting to bloom as a woman. She's out of her rut. Of course, she still hasn't lost her impatience or the temper that accompanies it. I like this shot because we see Ranse and Hallie working together as a team, as a couple. The classroom draws them closer and closer to each other.

Howdy, Miss Subjective -- Now I see what you mean about you keeping your mouth shut. You have no idea what you are talking about. That's a tease. I may be wrong in my impressions and opinions, because they're based on gut reactions and not analysis and that's why I don't find it easy to put them down---I mean about films that are really, really personal to me. For other movies it's not a problem, but Liberty Valance, like The Misfits, is territory of the soul and the words are hard to find. The images are up there on the screen and they speak for me. I'm not expecting film analysis from anyone. I much prefer reading words that come from the heart more so than the mind. You know that I'm someone who enjoys the "feel" of a film above all else and you are someone who taps into this better than most. So I don't want to see you hiding your emotions in Monument Valley ever again or I'm gonna borrow Valance's whip. Furthermore, most people like and admire the character of "Ransom Stoddard Attorney-at-Law" and I don't anymore so I'd rather not stir that particular pot. Why not? It's not as if he's an untouchable character like some others. And I know darn well you enjoy discussions of all kinds. No need to be shy, especially around me. And I don't think Hallie was in love with him, either. She loved him, but that's different. And he opened her mind and imagination---he did not open her heart. Now there you go, making me say more than I wanted! I wanted you to say it! Swoon. I believe there's truth in what you say about Hallie not being "in love" with Ranse in the present. I do believe she still loved him, though. Where I disagree with you is in the past. I do believe she was "in love" with him when she fell for him. Did Ranse "open Hallie's heart"? Maybe not. I think he truly reached her heart, though. You're right. Laurie Jorgenson is better. She just shies a few dishes at a man and is done with it. None of these internal anguishings for her. I actually think Laurie has serious internal anguishings. She attempts to bury them under her outward emotional outbursts. I think Laurie is more of a hopeless romantic than Hallie, though. She loves hard. Hallie loves soft. I fully admit I didn't understand 80% of what was written, that kind of analysis always leaves me at sea. You see, Frank! Guess what, Cactus Flower? I'm not one who goes for the heavy analysis of film if it incorporates language that loses the reader. I'm a lot closer to you on the subject than you realize. Seriously. I write as I talk. I had a writer friend of mine tell me that my writing style is "conversational." I happen to agree with him. Those Blu-Ray caps you posted are spectacular! Howdy, Bronx Blossom -- How is your mom doing, Barb? How are you holding up? No! I didn't say it was a hold up. You can put your hands down. I can enjoy this movie on so many levels, not the least of which is a purely visceral one: Wayne's nonchalant kick to Strother Martin at the restaurant. I can expound all day about what Ford REALLY meant, but when you come right down to it, the cactus rose expresses more than words can say. That was perfectly said. Print the legend. You are right imo about Hallie being the restless one, wanting something new. That's why for me she seems ambivalent about Tom. I'll tell you what, I have a tough time figuring out "Hallie." The Goddess, Jackie F, Lynn, and your opinions about Hallie have made me think and rethink her feelings. She's a rather complicated simple woman. It's something that really attracts me to her. I like complex women. She's got a temper, of course, but I call it the "Ford temper", the one where characters kick others in the butt, throw hats on the floor, dole out tough-love verbal abuse, etc. Hallie doesn't kick anyone in the butt of couse, lol, but she does gives Andy a hard time. But I really love her performance, as opposed to THE SEARCHERS. There she's just whinily assertive; in VALANCE, she's got much more emotional depth. I'm just now watching Ford films, so the characters and themes of his films are not within my grasp yet. But I do love your "Ford temper" comment. I especially love it from the women. I really enjoy emotional outbursts versus quiet inner strength. To me, Hallie's outbursts are based on embarrassment and frustration. When she snaps at Ranse for not being able to read it's out of embarrassment. She feels tiny and unimportant at that moment. When she snaps at Doniphon, it's usually because she doesn't like his mocking and aggressive approach to things. He's "unfeeling" which is the exact opposite of Ranse. When Hallie snaps at Link (Andy Devine) it's because she's sick and tired of his day-in, day-out routine. She wants to escape what she views as a trap. In time, she longs for such a trap because her new trap is probably colder to her. It's not warm like home. I'm not crazy about Stoddard's character. Maybe it's the way Stewart plays it, I don't know. He's real quick to run back into that convention hall after learning the truth of the gunfight, and claim political victory. I think Ranse felt he was doing right for Shinbone at the outset. I believe he eventually loses his way through time. He's somewhat condescending as he's teaching the little class. I just thought Ranse felt as if he was playing an important role for the community and that the community was starting to fully embrace him. He was becoming a somebody in Shinbone. I like the way Pompey doesn't remember the "all men are created equal" passage. Significantly, he never says it out loud because he knows it really isn't true. Rance (and Ford) tells him (and us) that a lot of people forget it. Are there any other instances of racial tolerance in his movies? That moment was definitely meant to be a political statement by Ford. It was heavy-handed but I also believe it to have been very brave. I'm not sure if Hallie ever really loved Rance. She loved what he represented. I'm still on the side of Hallie really loving Ranse, but I also believe she had strong feelings for Doniphon, too. My reason for believing Hallie loved Ranse was because she was always DEEPLY concerned for his safety. Almost all of her actions were towards Ranse and his well-being. If a woman is that concerned for the well-being of a man, it usually means they are in love with him. I think Ranse was in Hallie's system pretty good. How did Ranse get in Hallie's system? I believe Hallie LOVED how Ranse made her feel important and very needed. She wasn't just a cook or a waitress, she was a WOMAN. Hallie mothered Ranse back to health twice and she enjoyed doing it, too. You can just feel her gentle touch with Ranse. That's the "needed." Hallie also liked that Ranse helped her improve herself, her self-esteem. She felt so much better about herself thanks to Ranse. She also helped lead the classroom. That's the "feel important" Hiya, Lynn -- Loved your post. I don't think we are supposed to like Ranse. I think that was one of the things that drew Jimmy Stewart to the character. On the surface, Ranse is the hero who comes to Shinbone to help move the town and its citizens into the 20th Century. He comes with his fancy Eastern notions, a bit of a chip on his shoulder (would love to know why "no one fights my battles for me" is so important to him) and quickly realizes that his adventure west is not all that he has read about in fancy dime novels. If Ranse is guilty of anything at the outset it's that's he's a naive idealist. He doesn't understand how a town could just let violent criminal acts go unpunished. It's not the world he wishes to live in, so he sets out to change that world. I think that's admirable. He learns it will take time to move Shinbone into the 20th Century but he certainly feels through-out the film that he is the one to do. But he does not love Shinbone the way that Tom, Hallie and Linc do. I believe you are correct about Ranse not having Shinbone in his heart since he didn't grow up there, but I do believe he truly cared about the town... initially. Ranse and Doniphon both represent law and order but Ranse believes his way is the right way and Doniphon knows his way is the only way at that place in time. Things will change over time, though. The townsfolk would have still respected Ranse as their town lawyer (and likely he would have become the local judge as well over time) if he had come clean about who did the killing. The killing did eat at him but once he knows the truth, he still follows Tom's order to go back into the convention hall and take the nomination. At that moment, he seals his fate. The idealistic Stoddard that he wanted everyone to believe was really him would have come clean. But the opportunistic Stoddard who sees this as a way to get out of a dusty, dirty little town that wasn't the Western paradise he thought it would be, keeps his mouth closed, gets the girl and all the glory that comes with it. I think the biggest failure of Ranse is that he completely abandoned Doniphon. To me, that's a heartless move when you consider Doniphon saved his life, helped him maintain his political life, and sacrificed the love of his life. I'm guessing Ranse FEARED losing it all, so he didn't risk associating himself with Doniphon at all. He kept as far away from Shinbone as possible because Doniphon could have ruined him if he wanted to. But Doniphon chose not to. That's why he's one of the greatest sacrificial characters in film history. He gave all he had and ever wished to have and received absolutely nothing in return. Tom is the real hero of the piece. The man who sacrificed (whether he knew he was at the time of the shooting or not) everything to protect the town and the woman he loved. To be honest, I actually believe Ranse is a HUGE hero in the film. He was the one who started to teach the community how to read and write, helping lift the spirits of the elders while also providing their children (the future) a great start in life. Ranse also put Shinbone on the map by helping to organize their fight for statehood. He didn't allow the big ranchers overtake the local farmers and small businesses. Again, he's standing up for SHINBONE. But the biggest reason why Ranse should be viewed as a hero is that it was HE who stood up to Liberty Valance. It wasn't Doniphon. Doniphon was content with how things were. Why change? He had what he wanted. He was very comfortable. Too comfortable. I actually believe Doniphon was a little on the selfish side to start. Ranse showed he was willing to die for Hallie and Shinbone when he took Valance's challenge. He was the one putting it all on the line. Just about everything Ranse did in his time in Shinbone was for others. He was the one who was sacrificing, not Doniphon. Tom had said "he could live with the killing" but in the end he really couldn't. He died, alone, a mere shadow likely of the man he once had been. Killing a man in cold blood, even one as deserving as Valance, didn't sit well with Tom. It wasn't just losing Hallie. As Linc reminds us, he hadn't worn his gun in many years. I believe you're correct. Doniphon told Ranse, "he could live with the killing," but he couldn't tell himself that because he knew it was a lie. I believe Doniphon hadn't worn his gun for years because the town had become civilized just as Ranse wished it would. There were no more Liberty Valances to threaten Shinbone, so Doniphon wasn't needed. Doniphon without his gun was no longer a man. He was now "wearing the apron." Stoddard was able to live with the prestige that came from being the man everyone thought killed Liberty much better than the man who did the killing. That's almost always the case. I believe Bronxie mentioned the usage of shadows in her first post on the film and I believe it was a very important notation by her. There are a couple of ways to look at shadows in a film like The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. The first is that Doniphon had become a shadow of his former self. The other fits the film better in that there are many faceless, nameless shadows behind the most famous and important people in society. Like Doniphon, these shadows never receive the acclaim and recognition they truly deserve. For a man whose motto is "Nobody fights my battles for me" he certainly enjoyed the credit that came with letting somebody else do the killing. The truth is that Ranse didn't have Doniphon do the killing. Ranse was trying to kill Valance himself. He was being very brave. Here's a question for you: do you think it was brave for Doniphon to hide in the shadows and kill Valance? Is that a fair gunfight? Thankfully for Ranse, Hallie, and Shinbone, Doniphon did what he did. But is it honorable? What if Valance hid in the shadows and killed Doniphon? But even for Stoddard there was a price. He lost Hallie along the way. I don't believe Hallie is totally lost. I think she would come around in Shinbone, that is, if the Ranse she fell in love with all those years ago comes around. I believe he would. But I also believe both will forever be haunted by the ghost of Doniphon, not the ghost of Liberty Valance. I find it interesting that Ranse and Hallie never had children (especially given the whole family angle with Ford). Was Ranse too busy with his political career to ever entertain the notion of children? That is very interesting. If one is to believe they had a cold marriage, that could be used as proof, although one could make up many reasons why they didn't have children or that they did but they did not attend Doniphon's funeral, etc.

Those are fantastic, Mrs. C! So is Coop playing the role of "Dracula" in the bottom two avatars? He looks to be wearing a cape.

Hi, Shinbone Lynn -- If I were you, I'd spend less time watching the clock and more time watching that backlog of movies you keep promising us "dames of Shinbone" that you are going to get to. I'm a sneak. I watched another Ford film two days ago but I haven't had the time to post my favorite scenes from it yet. That way you won't have to keep looking over your shoulder for those dangerous femmes. Unless, of course, you like looking for them.... I'm an odd duck. I tend to show great concern for femmes fatale. Better have a a ton of cigarettes and enough whiskey to sink a ship on hand should those dangerous femmes catch up with you. May be the only way to placate them. More like Ford films, Cooper films, Garson films, and various others. Hey there, Lady of the Evening -- We can take anything you can dish out---except empty promises. Ow! Your claws are sharp!

I was wondering how you perfectly selected so many sexy femmes fatale. That's one helluva line-up! Thanks for the show.

I believe only links to the photos. Go ahead and post 'em if you got 'em, Kyle.

Well, she's a beatuful girl but I still think it's on the frumpy side. This one is much nicer: Frumpy?! I definitely prefer the pink number. It's warmer feeling to me. The director and his star of The Birds, a movie that seldom gets discussed here... Well... start talking. I have not forgotten. I still have to swat down some silly women in Shinbone yet and I'm also watching a clock.