FrankGrimes
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Posts posted by FrankGrimes
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Hi, Dan -- You're right, those are sensational! Very eye-catching.
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Yes, he sets off that apron mighty fine.
But he's a NON-EFFEMINATE man in an apron.
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lol, when I saw the name "Harvey" I thought at first you were talking about Jimmy Stewart's "pookah". So you were impressed by his broad shoulders?
Poor Will. You just aren't happy no matter what a man does. Here's a guy who "takes responsibility" for that vicious little hamlet, Hadleyville, and still you aren't sastisfied. Tsk, tsk.
I'm very critical of men.
Except Ranse. Now that's a REAL MAN. -
I think you should stop RIGHT THERE because you gained back a few points and I have a feeling anything you add afterward is only going to take back those points again and make me mad.
You were going so well yourself until you threw in at the end, "make me mad." Now that's something I strive to do. Just wait until I take apart Will Kane and his using of women in High Noon. Talk about a heartless man. You'd think he'd care about women, but nope. He could have learned a lesson or two from that young, up-and-comin' Harvey. Now there's a REAL MAN for ya.
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Howdy, Cactus Rose! -- Hi, guys -- wow, what juicy discussion! I haven't caught up reading it but I will.
Pack a lunch... and a dinner... and some breakfast... and a change of clothes.
Scott, thanks so much for inquiring after my mother. She had the surgery this morning and came through fine and is home, and now has to endure 45 minutes head down in special chair, then 15 minutes walking around head up being normal -- an annoying recovery period for this type of macular surgery, and this has to be done all day. I'm taking her for a post-op check up tomorrow which is necessary the day after, and hopefully the doctor will cut the chair routine down to one week instead of two or three.
I'm very glad your mom is doing as well as possible under the circumstances. That's wonderful news. You said she's a hopeful woman, so I'm sure her spirits are up now that she's past the surgery. I hope tomorrow's follow-up bears good news. I'm sure that it will.
(I was watching THE PARADINE CASE at her house and telling her the plot as she was head down in the chair -- she'd never seen it, and said, "Is that the movie with Lee Remick?" I told her that was another courtroom drama)
I'd love to see this episode of Love that Bronxgirl!. The Paradine Case isn't a bad film to actually listen to since it's very dialogue driven. Although, seeing Alida Valli is quite enjoyable.
I miss all of you, too.
To tell you the truth, I really needed a break from you, so I haven't missed you all that much.
Miss me?
Welcome back, Barb! And don't you be shy with your words to me. I can take it. I actually dipped some of my words in fire in order to get a certain lady or two going.
I just wanted to see how hard they could swing a silver-knobbed whip. The Manhattan cowgirl with claws knows how to use a whip, but she needs to be provoked sometimes. -
Howdy, Mrs. Doniphon! -- Ha ha! You need to go back to dancing school,
Pilgrim. Maybe Mischa can show you a move or two.
Poor, poor Frank. I didn't think anything could lower my estimation of Ranse even
more but I'm afraid your reply did.
Now how could I lower your estimation of Ranse? It was already very low. Ifanything, I raised your estimation of Doniphon. You got be careful when you're
around me. I can be pretty darn sneaky.
It showed how people who don't know the kind of people that the west bred can
completely misunderstand and condescend to them.
Please elaborate. Don't hide in the shadows. Step on out in the light. You've got
a quicker trigger finger than I do.
I don't have anything further to say because I know the truth about Tom's character
at least is what I feel and I already explained it as best I can; I guess I cannot put
in it words.
You've done a magnificent job of explaining your feelings! I'm just sticking pins in
you (and Lynn) to get that engine of yours revvin'. I'm actually being just as selfish
as Tom. I like it when your engine is revvin'. Should I talk to you as Tom would.
"You sure are pretty when you're wrong, Goddess."
:p What you have probably expressed perfectly is how a 21st century American
views these situations presented in the play. But about Ford's intentions and what
he actually presented us with on the screen? I beleive you are entirely wrong, at
least about Tom. Ford doesn't hide the flaws in his heros and Tom's are
inescapable,"out there"---his brashness for one thing and arrogance---but Ford
never would bother to place at the heart of his movie a man like you
condescendingly described. Yes, condescendingly! You really sound just
like Ranse! And that's---from a present day point of view, probably a compliment.
Very good! You caught on to my theme.
So am I being "condescending" or amI just "out there" with my brashness and arrogance?
One point of accuracy---Ransom moved up politically, the territory incorporated
into the Union and subsequently the law came, yes all due to Ranse. But it also
meant his leaving Shinbone soon enough so he was never in danger of having the
desperadoes come after him as they would Tom.
You are correct. Tom would have remained a sitting duck in Shinbone. However,
there was no guarantee that Ranse was going to be a successful politician. Plus,
Ranse would have had to deal with Valance's two goons no matter what.
Sorry if I stepped on your toes but you were entirely out of step with the music.
My toes are awfully sore but that's the norm when we dance. I'm fond of such
soreness.
I will share my feelings about Tom when I get some time here tonight. I was definitely
laying it on thick about his "irresponsibility." Tom is definitely the hero of The Man
Who Shot Liberty Valance and he is for many reasons. However, he most definitely
has his failings and he may very well have more than Ranse. That makes him all the
more human to me, though. And, like I said, Tom is the one with the biggest heart in
the film. He's also the one who is put through hell the most. Tom GRACIOUSLY
carries a beaten Ranse into Shinbone and he would help Ranse throughout his stay
in Shinbone from then on, but Ranse never repays his "room and board" to Tom.
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Howdy, Mrs. Doniphon! -- Are you ready to dance?
I'll try to get in as much ammunition as I can now and will be back later as
I have time.
How many bullets does that pop gun of yours hold?
I have a question for you (or others). When do you think Hallie started to have
feelings for Ranse? Was it immediately? She seemed very interested in Ranse
while she was nursing (mothering) him. She was very struck by Ranse defending
a woman against Valance and his gang.
It seems like she was interested in him from the start. He was "different". I imagine
that she must have idealized him from the moment she heard about how and why he
got hurt.
That's pretty much how I feel about it. Maybe Hallie likes it when a man risks his own
life for the protection of others, especially women. It's quite a brave and noble act.
I wonder if Tom did this before Ranse showed up. Hmmmmm.
While I'm not ruling out selfishness or even to stretch a point, "laziness"
(or laissez-faire-ness) on Tom's part preventing him from stepping in, I still
personally feel 1) it was not his place because the fact is he was not the town's
duly elected sheriff and the town got the sheriff it deserved because it chose
Appleyard;
A man can make it his place if he wants to. And he can do it in a way that's not
intrusive or cold-blooded. If someone is terrorizing a group of people, ala what
Valance did to the stagecoach, a man can step up and do something about it...
if he chooses to.
And I'm not buyin' this "duly elected sheriff" mess. Why? Because Tom was duly
elected to be a delegate and he TURNED IT DOWN. I'm betting the scared people
of Shinbone duly elected Tom as sheriff but he turned it down, refusing to accept
the responsibility, like he always does. Yet, Tom seems to enjoy ALL the perks
of a sheriff in Shinbone. He gets his way and is treated as "the law." In otherwords,
he'll TAKE the benefits of the position but refuse to GIVE the real responsibility
attached to the star. To me, this is a FAILING.
and 2), what about the consequences? A man as skillful with a gun as Tom
Doniphon risks starting a reputation for himself at any moment that can really get
him killed quick enough without stepping in an fixing other people's problems. If he
calls out Liberty, pretty soon all of Liberty's cronies are after him and he has to kill
them and then every two-bit glory seeker in the whole territory comes gunning for
"the man who shot LV". Basically he'd have to surrender all hopes and plans for
a life of his own on a ranch and with a woman and kids. So once again, someone
is expecting him to sacrifice everything for nothing. Poor Tom, by being competent
at staying alive in tough times everyone feels they have a right to parasite on him.
You have a point here. With the badge comes a heavy burden. But here's where we
find some hypocrisy. Tom isn't expected to stand up to Valance but Ranse is. Ranse
cannot be a MAN unless he does yet Tom can be a MAN by not doing it. Poor Tom
could get killed if he does something but Ranse needs to step up. You would think
it would be the other way around.
Ranse "gunned down" Valance in the streets of Shinbone. Well, using your logic,
Ranse is now a wanted man for every two-bit gunslinger looking to find a rep. He's
a target. That didn't stop him, and it turns out he wasn't a target after all. Ranse
stood up for something and his stance ended up being the difference for Shinbone.
He risked his life for the better of the community. He was willing to sacrifice it all
for what's right. He didn't fall for the, "you'll never change it, pilgrim" stuff. Tom
was wrong. Ranse was right. It just took one act of courage to keep the hopes
and dreams of Shinbone alive. Ranse was the MAN who did this. It could and
should have been Tom.
By the way, I think Tom really is the one who is condescending. He's the one who
goes around telling everyone how things are. He's the one who does the thinking
for others. And if anyone chooses to disagree with him, he thinks of them as
fools. Ranse BRAVELY stands up to Tom. Nobody else does this to Tom.
NOBODY. Tom's word goes in Shinbone.
You are correct, once Liberty calls out Ranse, it's out of Doniphon's hands.
But Tom surely had his chances to call out Liberty before that time. He probably
had many chances. He chose not to. He deferred.
You merely assume that! He didn't defer at Pete's! He couldn't have deferred "many"
times as you say because then word would have gotten round he was afraid and
nobody thought that for a second. I don't think Liberty crossed his path directly if he
could avoid it---though it is inevitable that one day they would have a showdown. Are
you casting apsersions on Tom's courage? That's absurd, if you are. There's no
question; he wasn't afraid of Liberty. Such nonsense.
You can't have it both ways, Mr Attorney-at-Law. On the one hand you say Tom
is "**** of the walk" and the "real sheriff" and on the other you say he's yellow and
avoids any responsiblity.
Tom DID defer at Pete's Place. He let Liberty go free once again. Tom could have
told him that he's to never show his face in town again. Instead, it was business as
usual. The townspeople remain afraid of Liberty because he remains free. Matt Dillon
wouldn't let Valance's BS fly in Dodge, I'll tell you that right now. Miss Kitty's "The
Long Branch" ain't gonna get shot to hell without repercussion. Tom just keeps on
kickin' the ol' can down the dusty road. His tomorrows never come.
Tom is very brave... up to a point. He's scared to take the final step. This is his
greatest weakness. He fears change because change may effect his comfy life.
The reason I know this is because I'm just like Doniphon. Yes, I know Doniphon.
Ranse is who pushes Tom to do things he wouldn't normally do because
Tom fears Ranse is winning his girl's heart.
You have it backward---Tom is sticking to the same plans he always had and
nothing is going to change them. But he does push Ranse to do what he's so ready
to give up on, that Mr Fine Ideals Stoddard.
Tom's plans have changed drastically because Hallie has chosen Ranse. This is
why Doniphon pushes Ranse to go on. He wants to see Hallie happy. The irony
of it all is that he helps Ranse take his final step. It's the step Doniphon always
struggled to do for himself. It's a true sacrifice on Tom's part. However, Tom initially
didn't do this for Ranse and Hallie, though. He told Ranse to run away from Valance;
to high-tail-it out of town.
As to the classroom scenes, I don't disagree with you there. There you see the conflict
between Hallie and Tom---he is high and mighty with her and she justly resents it but
I don't think you should forget his state of mind. He'd just gotten bushwacked and KILLED
several men. He was no doubt very concerned about Hallie's safety in light of the trouble coming
and was P.O.'d to come back and see her cozied up with the ladies man. In any other
circumstances, I think he would have been just as condescending but far more tolerant and
humorous. He's mad and jealous and showing his nasty temper. I think it's Ranse he'd
like to really throttle but as is typical, he takes it out on the two people he loves most, Hallie
and Pompey.
That was beautifully said and you make a fantastic point with the "bushwacked"
incident that Tom has just returned from. He's seen the violence firsthand and
fears the worst for Hallie and Shinbone.
And I think Tom would be wrong to throttle Ranse. Ranse isn't trying to take Hallie
away from him, she's deciding for herself. Tom doesn't like that Shinbone is
changing and moving away from HIS way. He's being neutered right before his
eyes and he don't like it one bit.
Tom said "I don't want you going to school in no shootin' gallery". I think that's even
more evidence that what he want to do is just what Ranse said---to protect her.
I agree with that. But I also believe he's petrified of losing Hallie. He's trying desperately
to hold onto his comfortable world. I think he takes pride in saying "he's right." "Didn't I
tell you this pilgrim doesn't know what he's talkin' 'bout, Hallie?" Tom needs to be right
ALL THE TIME. He's feeling VERY insecure with Ranse around. That's why he mocks
him. His usage of the word "pilgrim" is by choice. Valance uses "dude" as his word
to demean Ranse and Tom's word is "pilgrim." It's very condescending at times.
I don't agree with you about the "you're awful pretty when you get mad" line,
though. I mean, rather, so what if he is being condescending there? I think still
think it's nothing to get het up about. I loathe people who get angry over trivialities,
especially when you don't really know what the other person meant. We only assume
he means that line condescendingly. He may actually be sincere. And as far as I am
concerned, as long as someone cloathes their nastiness in nice words I won't jump
down their throat----but if he'd said something overtly nasty to her I would have found
it hard to take. There are, after all, some kinds of hypocracies between people that
are necessary for smooth relations. Or so someone TOLD me once.
The problem with Tom's reply to Hallie is that it's uncaring. She is seriously angry
with him and Tom just smirks at her, brushing her anger aside. He's attempting to
deflect her anger since it's aimed at him. Why does Tom do this? Because he's
worried. He's losing Hallie and he knows it. Tom is a very perceptive fella for a
tough-talkin' cowboy. He quickly senses Hallie's attraction to Ranse. I also believe
Tom is a very insecure fella underneath the bluster, hence his hesitation to follow
through. He can live with his insecurities in Shinbone because he's surrounded by
sycophants and there is no other man Hallie is drawn to. Ranse ain't a sycophant and
Hallie is drawn to him.
Verdict: Ranse is still a bit of a wienie.
Just "a bit"? Uh-oh. I think I'm swaying you, Judge.
Ranse is definitely a weenie. Henry Fonda could play Ranse.
Is that fair to assume that Tom was the "real Sheriff"? I dont' think I would go that
far. He was the fastest gun, that's all. And he happened to be a decent guy. Those
are the only two qualities that recommend him for the job but I don't think every nice
guy good with a gun has to automatically be conscripted into law enforcement out
west. Lots of cowboys and ranchers were so and never chose to become the town
sheriffs. I just think there isn't really any reason to suppose he SHOULD have been
the one to deal with Liberty any earlier when in all probability he was going to
sooner or later. After all, remember he was ready to do so in Pete's place, it was
only Ranse stepping in that stopped it. He doesn't have to be any kind of sheriff,
strong or otherwise. I think he was smart. If that's being blind---and I don't mind
admitting I may be---then so be it. If I were Hallie or anyone who cared about him
I wouldn't want him to be Sheriff. It's like saying you want him dead.
But Ranse needs to stand up to Valance, even though he's nowhere near equipped
to do so. He's basically killing himself to be a man. Tom would win a duel with
Valance and that's why Valance never takes him up. Tom could have put an end
to Valance in Shinbone if he would have told him where to go. Valance was scared
to death of Tom. But Tom never stood up. He just let Valance carry on.
I don't think Tom really needed to be a full-time sheriff. He just needed to take the
next step for Shinbone's sake. He let another man do his job. Although, in the end,
he was the one who did the job... from the shadows. He could have been in the light.
He should have been.
Now oddly enough I didn't take that line that way. I can't believe Ranse was feeling
anything but honest emotions at this point so I am not sure that he would be
condescending at that moment.
When you say something like "pork chop money" it comes off as if it means nothing
to you. It's a cold gesture. It places Ranse on a platform way above Pompey. While
this was the truth, I find it bad form to say it. He could have said many other warm
things to Pompey other than, "don't worry, it's nothing but pork chop money to me.
Here's your handout." He should have told him that he appreciated all that he did
for him. But, then again, money really is an impersonal gesture. Helping Pompey
to learn how to read and write is a personal gesture. That was the warm Ranse of
the past. The cold, condescending Ranse of the present hands out money.
He's condescending when he's "on" and the minute he entered the room with Tom,
I think all the B.S. fell off of him.
I just never felt Ranse was all that condescending in Shinbone. He was passionate
and he didn't take "that's how it is and how it's always gonna be" as law. That wasn't
good enough for him. He set out to do something; to change things for the "better."
What that line did call to my mind was Jimmy Stewart's amusingly self-deprecating
story of how during filming one of these scenes with Woody Strode, Pappy finally threw
the star "into the barrell". And it was on a point of racism. I have the feeling that while
it was no doubt prompted by his usual habit of needling, Ford was also perceived
something true about Stewart. Not necessarily that he was racist, but that he was
a man who could be a bit...I'm not sure of the word, perhaps a bit condescending.
He was a wonderful man but there is something there---kind of an unwillingness to
listen to others---and no actor reaches his level of stardom without some kind of
self-protective behavior. I can't help but wonder if Ford had the "pork chop money"
line added as a final, parthian shaft. I haven't read the original story to see if it's
already in there.
That's a fascinating tale! I didn't know this of Jimmy. I wouldn't put it past Ford to
do this, either. He seemingly loved to knock performers down many pegs.
Howdy, Lynn Doniphon -- I see you've taken the silver-knobbed whip from
Mrs. Doniphon. Let me have it, girl.
The toughest thing for me in regards to figuring out Hallie and her love for Ranse
and/or Tom is that she never kisses either of them on the lips. Ford never shows
us such affection, and I find this to be a brilliant touch. We, the audience, are never
permitted to see Hallie truly linked with love. We are left to guess her feelings.
There is a wonderful moment when Tom brings Ranse to Pete's Place after finding
him on the road. As Hallie is nursing him, in the background, on the shadow of the
wall, between the two of them is the shadow of Tom's hat. I've always taken that to
mean that Tom was always there between them.
That's very observant of you, Lynn. I never caught that.
I believe Ranse was frustrated by the others' "who cares" attitude towards Liberty
Valance and his violence against innocent people. He couldn't understand why
nobody wanted to throw him in jail. Everyone in Shinbone just let Valance get away
with murder. I think Ranse was right. Why doesn't someone stand up to Valance for
the the community's sake?
For the same reason that people don't stand up for what they believe in at any time.
They're afraid to make waves, they think that sooner or later it will pass and if it can
happen without anyone they know personally getting killed all the better. Remember,
until Ranse comes along, Valance never hurts the townspeople. He does all his killing
outside of town so they have no personal investment in stopping Valance. Yeah, the
guy comes into town, gets drunk and shoots up the place but no one gets hurt. That
changes with Ranse. Now Valance has someone who didn't die or run for the hills. Had
Ranse not been brought to Shinbone to recover, Valance would have gone on with his
usual routine. But, the fact that Ranse lived, is a reminder to Valance that he can't let
go of. The escalation of violence in Shinbone is because of the actions put into play
by Tom bringing Ranse to Pete's.
I understand. It's best to turn the other way because you risk less people getting hurt
that way. But, sometimes a man's gotta be a man. You need to stand up and fight
for something. Ranse does this right away. He did it during the stagecoach attack
and he keeps on doing it. As you said, he doesn't "run to the hills." He's standing
up to Valance. That's what draws Valance back. He feels as it he can take Ranse.
Actually, he knows so and so does Tom. But that doesn't stop Ranse from being
a man. He's gonna keep on fighting for what he believes in. Tom didn't believe in
much other than his selfish wants. Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this.
Did Ranse put Shinbone at risk with his stubborn "selfish" want to change things for
the better? You better believe it.
How could Tom deal with Liberty? Take charge. He was the real sheriff of Shinbone.
Everyone in town knew it AND Liberty knew it. Tom could have told Liberty to never
show his face in town ever again unless he wanted to die. That's what a strong sheriff
would do.
But, again, Tom wasn't the elected Sheriff. That was Linc. Tom was smart enough
to know that at best he could help keep the peace and keep violence out of
Shinbone. Had Tom become sheriff, he would have been putting a big old bullseye
on his back inviting every hired gun in the territory to come and take a try at him.
The town would have been much more violent in that scenario.
While I do believe Tom was very content in his world of the gun because it gave him
the most power and standing in Shinbone, I will say there is something very true and
important to me about Tom. I believe it's the best argument one can make against my
words. A dead Tom would mean Shinbone would go to pot. Only Ranse and Pompey
show any kind of (male) backbone in town. Ranse doesn't have the skills to be a
sheriff in what would evolve into a tough town and Pompey is a black man in a world
unaccepting to him in power.
I believe it was foolish of Tom to leave the town for three weeks. I actually believe he
was recklessly attempting to prove a point to Hallie and others that he's needed in
Shinbone; he's more important than Ranse. The truth is, he's right. He's the
muscle. He's the BADGE. However, if Shinbone can become more civilized, Tom
will not be needed. That's what happens. But when Valance is roaming the streets,
Tom is needed.
Plus, this way, Tom is able to go about his business and plan his life. Had he been
sheriff he never could have married Hallie because she would be sitting around waiting
for the day someone outdrew him.
Hallie marries the "man who shot Liberty Valance." Doesn't she fear the day Ranse
gets gunned down? What's the difference?
Even after suffering a severe beating, Ranse chooses to stand up and defend himself
and a community he doesn't even belong to. Opportunistic or noble?
Check out the reaction of two of the most important ladies of Shinbone:
Just the mention of Liberty Valance's name sends chills through Hallie and Nora. It's
quite clear that Valance scares them. He's a threat to them and Shinbone.
Tom TELLS Ranse what he needs to do. He needs to pack a HANDGUN. The
handgun is the tool needed to rid towns of baddies like Valance. Without baddies,
the handgun ain't needed.
Ranse rejects the notion of using violence to defeat violence. This is him being
very naive, although there is truth in what he says, too.
Hallie and Nora's reaction is of surprise. How could any man reject a gun in
this world?
Tom once again TELLS Ranse how the world works. He's got all the right answers.
Ranse actually says the word "no" to Tom. He stands up to him. He then goes on
to tell Tom that he and Valance think alike. They both believe the gun is the way. Well,
they are both right... in a lawless world. And, oddly enough, Tom needs someone like
Valance to keep his standing in a place like Shinbone since he's "the law."
Ranse questions the complacency of Shinbone. He cannot comprehend how folks
can actually let a murderous thug like Valance just walk around free. Don't they
care? I also want you to take note of the staging in the following caps. We see Tom
in a very confident stance, standing tall above the battered and weak Ranse. Tom is the
man in a position of power.
Ranse doesn't appreciate the advice he is given. He's basically been told, there's
nobody willing to stand up for the town, to represent them. It's up to each person to
fend for themself. That's irresponsible.
Ranse decides to stand to his feet and stand up to Tom. He's gonna look him in the
eye just as he did Valance. He's not afraid of Tom like everyone else is.
Hallie and Nora react to Ranse standing up to Tom. Hallie is looking at Tom. I'm sure
she's wondering how Tom is gonna react to being stood up to. They are witnessing
something they rarely ever see happen, if ever.
How does Tom react? Violently. He grabs Ranse. This is how Tom settles
problems. The thing is, why the heck doesn't he grab Valance like this? He certainly
can if he wants to.
Hallie's reaction to Tom's violent reaction is that of concern for Ranse and disgust
for Tom. She believes Ranse is right. She doesn't like Valance terrorizing the area.
She's scared of Valance.
What I like about this cap is that Tom actually backs off because Hallie wishes for
him to do so. Tom does care about Hallie and this proves there are times he will listen
to her.
Enter Link.
Tom pokes fun of Link's arrival. He's laughing at how cowardly the law is in Shinbone.
It's all a joke to him. When will Tom take things seriously?
"Dragging" is the key word. Nobody cares about law and order in Shinbone. They have
to be dragged into in it.
The following two caps show Tom at his condescending best. He's making fun of
Ranse's "wild ideas" of a civilized Shinbone; a place where the handgun isn't
necessary. I love his "you better listen." "Ooohh, you better listen to the law guy or he
will throw a book at you." He's really laying it on thick.
Nora doesn't find any of this to be amusing. She's sick and tired of the Valance BS.
Nora explodes on Link but we all know who she's really exploding on. She just doesn't
have the gumption to do it. Tom smirks away. It's all one big joke to him.
Is it "steak" or "stake"? What is Tom's stake? Does he have any stake in Shinbone or is
it all about himself? That's MY stake.
Valance and his gang ride off... free again. Of course, they have to cause a little
damage before doing so. They shoot up Pete's Place and others.
Only two men are standing in Pete's Place: Tom and Ranse. These are the two men
who can stand up to Valance.
What's the first thing Tom does after the smoke has cleared? He chooses to belittle
Ranse. He wants to rub Ranse's face in his being right. It's a very selfish, shallow
move. Why doesn't Tom give a damn about Pete's Place getting shot up? Why doesn't
he start figuring out a way to make sure this won't happen again?
I know much has been said of Ranse saying, "nobody fights my battles," but the
truth is, no one did. Ranse did fight his own battle. Tom knew Ranse would be killed
doing so, too. So it's to Tom's great credit that he did what he did.
Here's Tom telling Ranse to leave town. I'm someone who believes Tom is really
thinking selfishly at this point. He knows that if Ranse is gone, his entire world will
return to the way he wishes it to be. Would I also be selfish in such situation? Damn
straight. I wouldn't want a girl like Hallie to leave my side, that's for sure.
Are Ranse's "thanks" sincere? Does he understand what Tom is really getting at with
him leaving town? I'm thinking he does.
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I'm currently applying my beauty goop. A guy's gotta look lovely, ya know.
Oh good grief. Theresa, Kim, Angie: He's not gonna lay off Coop's lipstick 'till the cows come home.
" 'till the cows come home." Dreamin' of Texas?
By the way, I thought OBSESSING over Coop was the thing to do. I'm just trying to fit in.
"Bat out of hell" is about what you could expect from a Transylvannian.
It actually sounds like a Manrattan song. Or is that "Cat Out of Hell"? -
That's a shame you cannot sing "Bat out of Hell." I guess you will have to try and sing a Broadway tune. Do you know any?
FRANKIE!! such a song to even mention. tsk, tsk, tsk. heehee! i dont even know that song. thats probably a good thing.
I bet your momma knows the song.
do i know any broadway tunes? is this a trick question? heehee! thats like asking, "do you know any greer movies?"
My favorite Greer film is Out of the Past.
You should definitely do it. What song would you sing?
i dont know, i have been wondering what i would sing.....april can you give me a couple suggestions? obviously you dont know any frankie.
"Put the Blame on Mame"! That's a lovely Broadway tune.
-
Now that I have your attention, guess what's airing at 10:00am Friday morning???
You always have my attention, T.
The truth is, I actually watched The Letter the night you asked me to and I have read your wonderful write-up on the film. I just need to get my tail over to your thread and make some comments.
-
Howdy, Mrs. Doniphon -- I know! That's what I meant by the 'sons of guns' lining up. And she made even more sense than I did!
You made A LOT of sense in your multiple posts. I will get to it later on. I'm currently applying my beauty goop. A guy's gotta look lovely, ya know.
Hi, Princess Belle! -- in early March. they want me to sing a broadway song or a song from the show/movie, but it cant be a capella or a rock song or anything like that......like i'd sing a rock song for my audition. goodness!
That's a shame you cannot sing "Bat out of Hell." I guess you will have to try and sing a Broadway tune. Do you know any?
You should definitely do it. What song would you sing?
-
Hiya, Princess Belle! -- You sure are short. You also roll your eyes and sigh a lot. Such drama
yes! im the teenage drama queen/princess belle, didnt you know? heehee!
I know!
oh speaking of princess belle....guess what i found today. i found a poster for an audition to play princess belle in the plya Beauty and the Beast in Austin. i dont know if i should try out or not. i really want to try it though.
Go for it, Theresa! When's the audition?
Howdy, Fordy Guns -- I never said I do! You're the one. Now let's see you do it. My husband and I are still waiting.
So you want me to dance, huh? A wallflower I must remain because Lynn just posted on that thread, so I'm gonna need a little time to "compose my thoughts."
-
Bonjour, Mademoiselle Sorci?re -- It's too bad you don't know what the heck you are talking about when it comes to characters in film and their motivations.
So why don't you prove how wrong I am? I've seen little evidence of it so far Mr Attorney-at-Law.
You can't see what you don't want to see, Mrs. Doniphon.
He's not that tall, either. It's mostly hot air---just stick one of Bronxie's pins in him and you'll cut him down to a manageable size.
Now it's Bronxie. When will you fight your own battles, Ranse?
And I'm not that small, either.
Howdy, ButtersweetGreer -- I wouldn't push you aside. Shove? Yes. But not push.
even "shove" is underrated for what i've been through with you. heehee!
Now did you really think a psycho would be gentle?
what do i have to do to get you to believe me frankie? get down on my knees? heehee! wait dont answer that question. i fear i might know the answer.
I'm too much of a gentlemen and you're far too sweet of a girl for such behavior. You can do me a favor, though. Could you run to the beauty shop, I'm fresh out of lipstick. My shade is mean passion.
april, im trying to push him, but he is still standing completely still. man im short! heehee!
You sure are short. You also roll your eyes and sigh a lot. Such drama.
-
Ciao, Bad Witch -- That's right. Don't fight it, just go with it...
So do you think I'm resisting?
I often have the look Jimmy has on his face in that photo whenever I read
your words.
Hi there, Sweet Meanie -- I don't believe you! Kim would never be as
mean as you. That girl has no mean bones in her body and you're nothing but
a skeleton full of meanness.
i just choked on my grape when i read that. how hateful can you get with one
sentence frankie? goodness me!! well i'd parle vous right back to you, but i
dont know any hateful words. heehee!
It's not your words that I fear, it's your hi-yahs!
kim doesnt have a mean bone in her body, she's too much of a sweetheart though!
"I vote we kill him. All in favor?"
Oh, yes, she's a sweetheart, all right. No mean bones to be found.
Did the Bad Witch turn you into a puppy dog again? I told you to avoid her.
yes.....arf, arf, arf. heehee! but she turned me back again immediately. it was only an
experiment, a fun one!! i'd like to turn into a beautiful swan so i can find my true
prince charming.
You better be careful. The Bad Witch may not turn you back the next time. That's
why she's a "bad" witch.
Wait a minute. Why would you run to her to save you when she's the one who
is messing with your mind?
nu-uh, she's perfectly sweet to me, its your brain WE are trying to take over.....MUWAAAAHHHAAAAAA! heehee!
You're doing a pretty good job because I'm actually watching sappy chick flickslike Random Harvest and Gone with the Wind and films by the
"effeminate" Gary Cooper. Ohh, don't worry, Coop is NOT effeminate as other
lipstick-wearin' guys.
Ohh, I like that suggestion. How about "Put the Blame on Mame"? I wonder if any
other girls can sing that tune.
i dont think you can pick for me frankie, or is he allowed april? please say no, please
say no!!! if i sing, "put the blame on mame", april is singing it with me. it just wouldnt
be the same if we both didnt do a duet of it. heehee!
I could go for a "Put the Blame on Mame" duet. It's too bad the other girl carries a
sour tune at all times. But that may work well with your sweet voice, T.
Why, does it look as if Paula is being motherly in that shot?
no, but thats what you said, and then naturally you posrted a pic that sorta kinda
looked like that was what youwould be talking about. heehee!
Paula is mothering Smithy! There's nothing wrong with that, either.
Not bad for someone who hasn't even watched the film, eh?
lovery try franki8e, but im not falling for that one......you did watch it didnt you?
I sure did. I fast-forwarded through all of it. I've heard this is the best way to watch films.
Now you don't think a guy would really take notice of such a thing, do you?
no, never, is that why you posted those screen caps? heehee! i thought so!
I wanted to "notice" that again.
-
Patiently now, impatiently soon.
That was good! You're at least funny sometimes. It's too bad you don't know what the heck you are talking about when it comes to characters in film and their motivations. -
well april, even i am getting pushed aside by frankie over here lately. heehee! i dont really mean that by the way...
I wouldn't push you aside. Shove? Yes. But not push.
frankie, did you see the word "effeminate" by any chance?
Yes.
we said he was the complete opposite! heehee! he is a very macho ballet dancer compared to a lot of others darlin' frankie. you should see White Nights and you'll be totally convinced that he is totally beautiful, but not effeminate.
I definitely know what you meant, but I'm just not buyin' it all.
-
Now don't twist my words! I said what I LIKED bout Mischa was that he was NOT effiminate. You really are an Attorney-at-law, always trying trip people up.
Who's twisting words? You said he's NOT effeminate. I don't think the Duke would agree with you on that one. I wonder what Jackie Ford would say.
Theresa, can you straighten him out....please? You seem to be the only one who can put him in his place these days.
You just love to run to Sweet T the moment you find trouble, Mrs. Doniphon. Her puppy dog eyes cannot help you. And what place would you like to place me in? A lonely one? Ahhh, but you know that's where I want to be.
And why don't you tell Duke yourself? He and I are waiting patiently back in Shinbone.
Patiently now, impatiently soon. I'm hoping for hands on hips and foot tapping.
-
And here I thought you were a gal who liked Men not men. Man, you're quickly
losing your credibility. And do you actually think I'm gonna take your word on
what a "real woman" is after all this "he's not effeminate" stuff? Go ask the Duke
about "Mischa."
-
So many male ballet dancers are effiminate but "Mischa" was definitely not, which is why I liked him so much.
First it's Gary Cooper in lipstick and now this. It's getting ugly, I mean, pretty in here mighty fast.
-
Here?s some bonus chest hair for you too because I know how much it drives you wild!
I'll take Kim's suggestion for me.
-
Howdy, Mrs. Doniphon! -- I see that I struck a nerve with you. A good nerve.
I like it when you write that much about anything, but especially about something
you deeply care about. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your thoughts and feelings
about many aspects of The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. It's what I expect
from someone as perceptive and wise as you. That's not sop... or blarney, for that
matter.
Howdy Mr. Stoddard's Champion:
I like being the champion for certain people.
Thank you for posting your comments. OK, now that sop is out of the way I can
start tearing them apart.
It's always great to see the vengeful Goddess. It makes life more interesting.
You asked for it. MY own opinionated opinions. I'll start off with saying I think you
are idealistic and you see those qualities in Ranse and you seem to think they
outweigh his failings or they keep his failings "in the shadows" from you.
I agree with you. I'm very idealistic and I may very well be blind to his failings.
What you call "being in love" I call infatuation and I think she only thought the
object of her affection was Ranse---what she really was taken by was what he
had to offer. And I don't blame her one bit.
The toughest thing for me in regards to figuring out Hallie and her love for Ranse
and/or Tom is that she never kisses either of them on the lips. Ford never shows
us such affection, and I find this to be a brilliant touch. We, the audience, are never
permitted to see Hallie truly linked with love. We are left to guess her feelings.
I'm not sure I'd say Hallie was "infatuated" with Ranse, but I also must say that my
own statement of her being in love with Ranse is also rather loose.
I have a question for you (or others). When do you think Hallie started to have
feelings for Ranse? Was it immediately? She seemed very interested in Ranse
while she was nursing (mothering) him. She was very struck by Ranse defending
a woman against Valance and his gang.
However, I am willing to give the devil her due and agree with you that she did fall
in love with him and I most definitely believe she cares about him, loves him, in the
present but not in a real man-woman way. More like affection based on gratitude, pity
and years of living together. It may not sound like I am agreeing with you on this ONE
point, but in a way I am.
Well this is not going well at all. I'm in agreement with you. I do believe Hallie's love
for Ranse in the present is based on gratitude, pity, and "routine." She's accepted
her situation more so than fought it.
Ranse came for the same reason they all did at that time: for opportunity. And like
a lot of somewhat phoney people he thought he could mix up his ambitions with the
lofty-sounding idea of "improving" and "civilizing" the west. This he sincerely came to
believe, I'm sure.
This is true. However, the attack on the stagecoach and then the town's indifference
to the law is really what sparked him. He found a cause. Was it a selfish cause?
Yes, because he was personally wronged, so there was a lot of selfishness involved.
But I also think he truly believed the cause would help the town, too. He felt as if he
could make a difference.
But just as we're shown that Gatewood (in Stagecoach) stole the money and
took off because of the very understandable reason of being trapped in marriage to
a virago, it doesn't make him a "hero". Ranse's attitude toward Shinbone (and its
inhabitants) was at times contemptuous and condescending---and again, I don't
blame him. But that doesn't mean he wasn't a basically nice, decent guy. Ford
knows what rats basically nice, decent guys can be. And after what Liberty did
to Ranse, I'm amazed he didn't immediately hightail it back East.
I must say that I do not see as much condescension and contempt as you, Bronxie,
and Lynn do. This must be the blind spot you speak of with me. I believe Ranse
was frustrated by the others' "who cares" attitude towards Liberty Valance and his
violence against innocent people. He couldn't understand why nobody wanted to
throw him in jail. Everyone in Shinbone just let Valance get away with murder.
I think Ranse was right. Why doesn't someone stand up to Valance for the the
community's sake? Why? And we all know who could call out Valance and
demand a showdown. Tom can take matters into his own hands if he really
wanted to. But he chose not to. Tom truly is the sheriff of Shinbone yet he chooses
not to take on that responsibility. Why? What's he scared of? Tom basically let
Ranse fight what should have been his battle. Valance should have been taken
out long before Ranse was attacked.
Was Ranse condescending while teaching the community how to read and write? Is
this where you feel an air of elitism?
I will say that Ranse is VERY condescending as a Senator. One of his most
condescending lines he utters is after he gives Pompey some many and tells
him, "pork chop money." Those are cold, cold words.
That moment was definitely meant to be a political statement by Ford. It was
heavy-handed
WHAT? (voir rouge). How can something so oblique be "heavy handed". Overruled,
Mr. Stoddard.
I like your style, judge. May counsel approach the bench? You're right, it's not truly "heavy-handed" but it wasn't hidden, either. Pompey is the
one who is standing up in front of the class (us), not a white person. It's a clear civil
rights message and it was there for that purpose. I'm thankful John Ford had the
cojones to do such a scene. I greatly admire that kind of courage.
That makes more sense than your previous statement. And I will agree with all
of it. But guess what? You say he gave her confidence. Look again. Who is this
woman come to Shinbone with the "man who shot Liberty Valance". This isn't the
confident, straight, outspoken woman of spirit we see in the flashback. She's "grey"
and I don't mean her hair or frail health. Her whole personality seems to be in eclipse.
This isnt' just mourning for Tom, either. She looks like she's become stifled and used
to keeping quiet. She would HAVE to be that way because she could NOT be the
wife of a Senator who went on to a diplomatic career otherwise. She has learned not
to question or speak up during all the years of chicanery, B.S., lying, intrigue and
double-talk she's witnessed from her new world, and sadly, from her own husband.
So she's actually "lost" herself and her own ideas.
Guess what? Uh-huh. We're in agreement... AGAIN. You are absolutely right.
Hallie has clearly lost her identity. She no longer feels needed. She's second fiddle.
The confidence I was speaking of was when Hallie started to fall for Ranse. Ranse
did instill confidence in Hallie back then. He taught her how to read and write and
she was asked to help lead the classroom with him. Hallie finally had a world
outside of the restaurant. A world she took great delight in.
At least with Tom she had her own ideas and he didn't try to change her. He liked it
when she spoke up to him----Ranse would NOT have liked it. Many seemingly
easygoing men don't. Can't you just see the years of Ranse saying to her after
one of her outburst---"Now...now Hallie, you can't say those things around here
like that..just...just have a little care and learn how to handle these people." How
nauseated that must have made her feel.
This made me laugh out loud and it's because it's so very true to me. I'm sure the
politically-powerful Ranse was very CONDESCENDING with Hallie. He probably
treated her like a child. She had to "know her place" and "play her role." Sounds
exciting, doesn't it?
You're very right about Tom enjoying Hallie's fire. I know I love Hallie's fire. Those
are the kind of women that are fun to be around. Ranse handled Hallie's fire
differently. Instead of smiling at her fire, he would attempt to soothe it. He also
jumped at Hallie's fire: her ringing the bell and shooting him a glare when he was
late for class.
But I definitely agree with you about Hallie's personality changing for the
worse through time. She had lost her fire, just as Tom did. Ranse's fire was
blazing. Was. Those cactus flowers have put it out.
He didn't go out west to change the world---he went west for opportunity.
Yes, but the attack on the stagecoach and him changed his mindset.
You were doing alright when you talked of the good things Ranse brought to
Shinbone because that is certainly true. That's his good side. You are right too
(I'm gagging) to say Tom was selfish in some ways---everyone is. But he wasn't
specifically in the way you mean. He didn't "deal with" Liberty YET. He probably
would have, eventually. What did you want? Him to gun him down? Provoke a fight
so he could kill him? Because that's pretty much all he could do.
Yet? Was he ever going to deal with Liberty? Was he ever going to marry Hallie?
Tom seemed too content with the world as it was because HE was very comfortable.
I personally don't condemn him for that. In fact, I'm a lot like Tom when it comes to that.
How could Tom deal with Liberty? Take charge. He was the real sheriff of Shinbone.
Everyone in town knew it AND Liberty knew it. Tom could have told Liberty to never
show his face in town ever again unless he wanted to die. That's what a strong sheriff
would do.
I now must ask you, do you believe you could be blind to Tom's failings just as I am
blind to Ranse's? I think you may be interested to know that I most definitely like
Tom more than Ranse. Why? Because he was BRAVE to put the happiness of
the woman he loved above all else. He had Hallie on a pedestal, which is something
Ranse never did. I'm someone who believes in placing the woman you love on a
pedestal. Tom, the brash-talkin' tough guy, is the one with the heart.
And Ranse had to know what his Shinbone efforts could lead to---he was an
ambitious opportunist and I don't say that like it makes him evil. It makes him
typical and human. The one who seems a hero is really a very flawed man with
comlicated motives, and the "loser" really had noble and purer motives, even if
they were wrong (from society's standpoint) motives. That's what I get from an
examination of these two interesting characters.
Ooohh, I like that.
Wrong, wrong, wrong! It's ridiculous to question Tom's bravery----do you honestly
think he wouldn't have had the guts to face him? That's absolutely NOT true. He
was smart enough to know that it had to look like Ranse did it because a man
knows another man doesn't want to know someone did his job for him. It would
have obliterated Ranse if Tom just strode in, pushed him aside and faced Liberty
for him. Besides---Liberty correctly called it when he said to Tom it was their
fight---not his. Tom also was doing this FOR HALLIE and he knew she had to
believe in her man. Such as he was, he was her choice.
Now...now Goddess, you can't say those things around here like that..just...just have
a little care and learn how to handle these people.
:p You are correct, once Liberty calls out Ranse, it's out of Doniphon's hands. But Tom
surely had his chances to call out Liberty before that time. He probably had many
chances. He chose not to. He deferred.
I think you're wrong again (that feels better).
Somebody's cute. He was not wearing a gun because he gave up. He was a walking suicide and
didn't care if he lived or died. He murdered a man in cold blood, lost everything, and
that finished him. He wanted no more reminder of the past and every time he looked
at his gun it would bring it all back. What you are probably close to being right about
is how the town's point of view of him probably changed. In their eyes he became
a loser, he shrank, he wasn't the one they all expected would take care of Liberty.
I agree with you that Tom was basically a dead man living without Hallie AND his
standing in Shinbone.
Remember, Tom shot Valance with a shotgun and not a hand gun. The hand gun is
for quick draws and short-range challenges. The town no longer had such trouble,
hence the need to carry a hand gun had gone by the wayside. I do believe Tom not
packing heat was symbollic of his losing his manhood. He was no longer a man in
his own mind. Oddly enough, I believe Tom and Hallie were living the exact same
lives while apart. They both were no longer needed . They felt useless. They had
lost their souls.
Any questions, counsellor?
Ohhh, you are very good.Beautiful arrangement and commentary of the screen caps, Franklin. Of course,
I disagree with many of your comments but like Bronxgirl said---who is very much
more fair and objective than I---it proves what a grand movie it is that gets people to
see so many different things in it.
Actually, I think you are very fair and quite objective. I also believe you and Bronxie
are very similar when it comes to letting your heart and feelings be heard. Bronxie
doesn't hold back on what SHE believes and feels. Neither should you.
Here is what I "see" in the Ranse/Hallie relationship:
All right!
Ranse is a decent, nice guy with fine ideas and he unselfishly wants to impart
them to others, particularly to Hallie. He sees a start in her of the work he could
accomplish. I think his motives are already mixed even at this point but entirely
unbeknownst to him. Haven't you noticed that Ranse never really shows that
much interest in Hallie on his own? He responds to her...he reacts to her and
then comes to love her. But I put it to you that almost any woman could have
done the same. He's not really thinking about love at all and it's Hallie who is
clearly pushing the thing to happen. He's "teaching" her yes, many things, but
I don't think it's entirely selfless on his part. He likes the way she and the others
look up to him so in this respect he and Tom are much alike. I firmly believe Ranse
always loved himself first and foremost and Hallie is almost an afterthought.
Wow! That was excellent! I'm in complete agreement with you. Ranse never
takes the initiative with Hallie on the "love" front. She's the one who is drawn to
him more than the other way around. But I must tell you, I believe a huge
reason why this is so is because Ranse actually greatly respects Tom. He
knows that Hallie is Tom's girl. I believe Ranse is being a gentleman. So is it
that I'm being foolishly naive here or am I correct? Remember, Ranse is surprised
to hear Tom informing him that Hallie is his girl when he shows him the room and
porch he's adding to his house. Ranse says that everyone in town understands
that Hallie is his girl, including him. Was he lying? I don't think he was. Hallie
is the one person who doesn't see herself as Tom's property.
Why do I think Ranse greatly respects Tom? Well, who does Ranse nominate
as the delegate for Shinbone? Tom. And the entire room erupts. What does
Tom do? He refuses to accept the nomination. Why? Because he fears Ranse
taking his girl. I contend that Tom's life has been all about refusing responsibility.
He could have taken many important matters into his own hands, like ridding the
town of Valance, but he didn't. Was it his duty to do such things? No, of course
not. But he could have taken on those responsibilities if he wanted to. He didn't
want to. Ranse is who pushes Tom to do things he wouldn't normally do because
Tom fears Ranse is winning his girl's heart. His fears were correct, too.
I also think Hallie's physical gestures toward him seem to say "mother" not "lover".
Definitely. If Ranse represents the father of civilized society, Hallie represents the
mother. She's the First Lady.
Tom, on the other hand, constantly makes overtures in spite of his taking her for
granted. He seeks her out, brings her gifts and as for the room he's building---Hallie
unmistakably knew about it. You can't keep something like that a secret in such
a small community.
More agreement. This is evidence for Bronxie's belief that Hallie was the one dragging
her feet on marriage not Tom. I still believe it's Tom, but I believe Bronxie's belief may
very well be right.
The scene when Tom announces he's off north of the Picket Wire is an ambiguous,
interesting one. I think she knows it's a crossroads, but she also must be aware that
Tom isn't thinking this way --- yet. Maybe she's also wondering why he would leave
her at just such a critical time---alone with a man who is exerting a large influence
over her already. It might seem to her that Tom doesn't care and that he's abandoning
her. "Couldn't he have sent some of his ranch hands to do this job?" she might be
saying to herself.
Ambiguous is the right word. I believe that scene is the most fascinating in the film
because of its ambiguity. Hallie's "goodbye" to Tom makes the scene play as a
breakup to me.
Beginning with when Tom jokes about Ranse being a "ladies man". That was
mean but it's typical of how men can roust eachother,
Guys will often put other guys down in front of their woman out of jealousy and fear.
Hallie has taken a shine to Ranse and Tom recognizes it. He's worried about losing
Hallie. This is yet more evidential proof for Bronxie's contention that Hallie was the
hold-out on marriage.
but what struck me is that when all is said and done, it's actually TOM who's the
ladies man, not Ranse! Ranse never acts lover-like with Hallie and I don't think it's
just because he doesn't want to infringe on Tom's claim---I think it's just not in him
to behave that way. He's too self-absorbed and a bit uptight.
While I do believe Tom was being respectful to Tom's "claim," I also agree with you
that Ranse is self-absorbed and not very romantic. He's the one always seeking
the attention.
Tom, on the other hand, "Mr Macho", gets himself all prettied up, best suit
and tucker (and probably smells nice---took a bath) and brings Hallie a
present---a cactus rose. He compliments her. He flourishes his hat. Everything
about the way he looks at her and talks to her is at odds with his taking her for
granted. Maybe Ranse's presence prompted all this attention. Because Hallie
almost looks surprised by it. I'm beginning to wonder more and more if maybe
Bronxie is on to something about Hallie and Tom. It's almost like she never
considered him in the light of a lover.
I think you are correct in stating Ranse's presence pulls the "romantic Tom" out of
the closet. Tom's comfortable world has been shaken and he's out to restore it.
Maybe she always saw him as a friend or a big brother type??? But I can't
imagine she wouldn't have known about the room, unless she just shrugged it
off. Tom said everybody "took it for granted" that she was his girl---except for
Hallie and Ransom. Hmmmmm.
What I'm wondering is, when did Tom start building this extra room and porch?
Did he start before Ranse arrived in town or after? Did Ranse's arrival give Tom
a kick in the fanny?
Another scene. When Hallie has her little outburst over Ranse's decision to
leave Shinbone---I think partly she is disappointed for herself---that he cares so
little for her---but partly I think she really is disappointed he's letting her down
regarding facing Liberty. I think Hallie has the same values as most of the
westerners in that community---she thinks a man doesn't back down from a
fight like this. But she's conflicted, because she doesn't want Ranse killed,
either. Ideal solution? Get Tom to fix the situation.
I agree with that. Hallie always runs to Tom to bail her out of tough spots. She
is definitely angry at Ranse for not standing up Valance but her reasons for the
anger are arguable for sure. I'm positive that she doesn't want Ranse to flee
because what she wants out of life is with Ranse. Ranse represents her
happiness. If he flees town, she will go back to being what she was. Her
dreams will die. So Ranse does indeed represent hope and happiness for
Hallie, which is evidence towards Hallie not truly being in love with Ranse but
loving what he has done for her. You may be winning me over with the "love" part.
Very observant, Frank, about the apron strap and about the pictures of Peabody
and Lincoln. With your eye you really ought to direct.
Thanks for such a wonderful compliment. I'm more reactive than proactive, though.
Here's Tom bossing Hallie around. He's TELLING her to go back to where she
belongs. In essence, go back to him. Before Ranse showed up, all Hallie did was
take orders. She's a waitress and you get the feeling Tom always got his way. He
knows what's best for her at all times. He'll do the thinking for the both of 'em.
Here's Tom being very selfish. He's attempting to take away what has become
Hallie's passion and love.
What I find interesting about this cap is that Tom is basically telling Hallie, there's
no school if there are guns ablazin'. This goes to Ranse's argument that all this gunplay
must stop if Hallie and Shinbone are to improve. Tom's belief is in the gun and Hallie
is on Ranse's side.
The next three caps tells us that Hallie doesn't like Tom's belief that he "owns her."
That she is "his girl." Hallie thinks otherwise. And Hallie says these words to Tom in
honest anger. She's not having an "emotional outburst." Her anger is deadly serious
and meaningful.
How does Tom take Hallie's honest feelings and emotions? Like he's always done
before. He laughs at them and tells her she's "pretty." It's VERY CONDESCENDING
and Hallie hates it. You get the feeling that Tom always pulls out the "pretty" line when
Hallie is angry or bothered or frustrated or upset. He doesn't cater to her feelings. I also
believe Tom doesn't take anything really seriously in life. He tends to smirk at it all.
If he would take things seriously, he'd be married to Hallie. But he's always traveling
at his own speed. This is the "selfish Tom."
By the way, a little tip to guys, make sure you take your woman's anger seriously. You
don't want to laugh and smirk.
The following sequence of caps shows Ranse as a defeated man and Hallie being
surprised and disappointed in Ranse's decision to "erase the board." Ranse now
understands what Tom has been saying all along that an act of force will be necessary
to protect and thusly build Shinbone.
Ranse tells Hallie to "make it up" with Tom. Is this the act of a man in love? If it
is, it's a sacrificial move. I believe Ranse isn't in love with Hallie at this point, and, like
the Goddess has stated, maybe he never truly was "in love" with Hallie. Maybe he just
liked that she gave him loving attention. I'm not sure.
The next two caps are from the beautiful silent scene featuring Hallie. It's one of my
favorite moments in the film. This first cap shows Hallie looking at HER bell. The bell
represents responsibility for Hallie because she is in charge of ringing that bell for
class to start and end. It's something she loves. That bell (classroom) makes her
feel important. She doesn't want to lose it.
In this cap, you see Ranse leaving through the window as Hallie calls out for him.
It's interesting to me because Hallie is calling for Ranse instead of Tom. She's running
to Ranse because of the classroom.
Hallie runs out to the street, yelling for Ranse. She fears he's leaving town at the
first sign of trouble.
Hallie is VERY disappointed when Ranse tells her to "dimiss the class." The
classroom means so much to her.
How much does the class mean to Hallie? So much so that she makes sure to
tell everyone, "same time tomorrow!" Tomorrow is VERY important to Hallie; big
picture-wise.
When Tom returns to Shinbone, he seeks out Pompey. He berates Pompey in
front of the classroom. Why? Because Pompey has neglected to do his work. What
kind of work? Working on Tom's house. On one hand, Pompey needs to be doing
his work. But, on the other hand, Pompey is attempting to better himself through
learning. The key words from Tom are "wastin' your time." It's clear that Tom doesn't
value the school like others in the community do. In fact, he values his house more.
But I will say that if Pompey is getting paid to work, he needs to be workin'. I'm sure
Ranse could teach him later on.
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Hi, Kylefornia! --
OK. Let me see if I understand.
Grace = Good.
Jean Arthur / Helen Hayes = Bad.
Jean Arthur is good and I actually don't have an opinion on Helen Hayes. It's just that Grace Kelly is the Princess, so I'll enjoy any poster she's on.
"Hitch" = Good.
"Pappy" = Bad.
David O. = Desperate.
David O is not desperate, just that one minor film he did. That's desperate.
Gawd. I'll be happy when "31 Days..." is done so I can go back to being impulsive. (Actually, I have most of March already planned out.)
But if this keeps up, it might go off without a "Hitch" or a "Fritz" or a "Mini-Cooper". "12 Days for 'movieman1957' " sounds really appealing about now.
I could go for a "12 Days of Movieman." I'm sure he wouldn't put us through the constant Coop/Ford kiss-ups.
Loved the High Noon poster. Oops. Did I just get lipstick on you? Sorry. I'm trying to emulate Coop's style.
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Hi, Kim! -- Anthony Mann's Man of the West and Some Came Running will both be released on May 13th and I'm "stoked" for each. I'm going to get the Frank Sinatra box set that includes Some Came Running. I'm also looking forward to the latest batch of Fox films noir on March 11th: Daisy Kenyon, Black Widow, and Dangerous Crossing. The Forbidden Hollywood Collection, Volume 2 is also on my list because of Missy.
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Why the stills from the movie?????????
I believe they help illuminate what I speak of or what others speak of. They can also help convey my state of mind and/or feelings. Film is a visual medium, after all.
Except Ranse. Now that's a REAL MAN. 
Any Gary Cooper Fans?
in Your Favorites
Posted
Day of the Outlaw would also be my next choice after the two Coop films. I'm a big Robert Ryan fan, Tina Louise is a beautiful woman, and Andre de Toth is an underrated director. The two Robert Mitchum films would be next for me, but I don't see me buying them any time soon.