FrankGrimes
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Posts posted by FrankGrimes
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*Frank, what do you mean that the message boards are like Heidelberg? You like coming here? or you wish it was like it was at the beginning and you keep trying to get back to something that has long passed?*
The former. I feel like the student prince here but I know the day will come where I'll turn into a king.
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Good evening to you, Cowboy Chris -- *I don't think that Ryan is necessarily smarter than Lancaster but he certainly takes a different approach to the situation.*
That's a fair point. But when it comes to the town and its people, Cotton (Ryan) is smarter than Maddox (Lancaster). You also have to wonder who is smarter with their own lives.
*I'm not sure it's about whether the law is compassionate as much as the justice is.*
That's a very good distinction. Nicely done.
*Lancaster and many a marshal, though not all, have all sworn to bring their man in whatever it takes and let the court take care of the rest. That's their call, not his.*
*Yet, he almost does. As I mentioned, just as he is ready to leave and let it be done the men he has just set free, in a manner of speaking, won't accept it and go. They have to make an issue of it. That is their undoing.*
But what about his shooting Hurd Price (J.D. Cannon) in the back? That was personal. He overstepped his bounds. He's consumed.
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THE PHENIX CITY STORY SPOILED
Hi, James -- *Interesting topic. I have always viewed that the fact that the child is black as a distraction. The movie is about corruption and while race is involved (it always is to some degree but especially in that era), the core of the 'troubles' in this movie were not race related (i.e. the corrupt directed violence at people in the town regardless of race). If the paid off authorizes had ignore the killing of a white child, wouldn't that have had a bigger impact to the 'blind' (those not willing to take a stand either way), given the times and the storyline?*
I took the race of the Wards and the death of their young daughter as being the decision of the filmmakers (director, producer, writers). It's a roundabout way of imparting your own feelings on a serious topic while not making it the primary focus of the film. The film is definitely about a town that is being held captive by corrupt forces. Those corrupt forces can be extapolated with the Wards. -
LAWMAN SPOILED
Howdy, Fordy Guns -- *I liked the contrast of the two kinds of lawmen. Ryan was unquestionably weaker, but more human and at least a part of the community he "served".*
Robert Ryan is once again superb playing a weakened man. He can seemingly do it all.
You're right, Marshall Cotton (Ryan) was the more human of the two law men. But he was also a defeated man. The fight was taken out of him. He was simply a placeholder. However, he remained sharp and wise. I feel he was the smarter of the two law men.
*Lancaster may be the more purely right in terms of executing the law to the letter, but he's like a machine.*
That's a very good point. And I think that's what the film is remarking on. Can the law be compassionate? Maddox's (Burt Lancaster) approach borders on cold and heartless, even though he really is in the right.
*And he knows it like when he tells the young cowboy the difference between him and a man like Lancaster, a lawman. He says something about how being a lawman is simply being a man who's profession is to kill other men. He may be no more skilled at using a gun than the cowboy (who thinks he's a real hot shot) but he's willing to kill and the cowboy is just that, a cow hand with a gun. They even gave him a nickname, "the widow maker".*
Exactly. Part of his profession is killing.
*Ryan on the other hand, is always spoken of in the past tense by the townspeople and by Cobb ("in his day you couldn't walk in his sun" Cobb tells one of his hands). Evidently he was a hero in some military episode but it apparently gave Ryan a bellyfull of killing and so he went from town to town, always running. Ryan is just as honest about himself as Lancaster. It's a great character.*
It really is a great character. I thought Maddox was also a great character, and played magnificently by Lancaster. Is he ever off?
*The only thing I might have wished for was more interplay between him and Lancaster. They cross paths once or twice but Ryan mostly is on the sidelines.*
I agree. But the scenes they share are really terrific. Such pros.
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*It's too "soft" for you I'm sure,*
I'm sure that's part of it. It's definitely a soft film.
*and the setting isn't for you.*
But I love the Lubitsch/Chevalier films! Those are great.
*I don't believe however that the movie is saying you can go back in memories, just the opposite. You cannot go back if the heavy hand of the past and tradition remains on your back. The past is dead and can be death-dealing, on many levels.*
What I'm saying is that you are left with your memories of the past. That's always a double-edged sword since the feelings can make you feel wonderful but knowing you can't return to them can be very tough to deal with.
I actually think of this message board as "Heidelberg."
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*The Marriage Circle is almost like the anti -Student Prince. It's premise is so cynical that they don't even seem like they could be directed by the same man, though the Lubitsch touch gives everything away. I do like it, but I would not watch* *The Marriage Circle right after* *Old Heidelberg.*
Maybe that's the trick for me! -
I wasn't into *The Student Prince in Old Heidelberg*. The only part of the film that I cared for was the end, when life in Heidelberg had detioriated. It had become a shadow of itself. All that was left was memories of a fond time gone by. That was great. So what I liked most about the film is the memories of youth and how they can be lived and lived again in your mind and heart.
It was nice to see where *Roman Holiday* took its story, though. Now that's a film that does make me cry at the end. I didn't do so once with *The Student Prince in Old Heidelberg*.
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A very good, late evening to you, Miss Maven -- *I think it’d be just as impactful b’cuz of the heinous death of a child. And my contention is that if the child and family were white - same subsidiary second-tier characters, they would have shown them either getting the news or showing Patterson saying “I’ve got to give Zeke a call.” They would have gotten a nod.*
You may be right. But I feel the impact was far more impactful because the child was black. When you consider the time the film was made and the area, it's a major statement.
*What shocked the heck out of me was when Kathryn Grant and the old man went to the hospital to see his son, and being told by the receptionist “Where do you want the body sent?” That was a jaw dropper.*
It was! So very matter of fact.
*Is it over. Well...it's a start. (Side note: I am not a bitter, angry or hateful Maven).*
A start?!
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*They were caught up. And I hear you about the focus. But a "nod" to them...a three-minute scene would have been good. The little girl's murder was the most heinous crime of the entire film. Yet the focus was how it affected the Patterson men to fight the evil. No acknowledgement? Hmmm...*
The Pattersons were the threat, not the Wards. The crime syndicate didn't care about the Wards. The reason for that scene was to scare the Pattersons, not upset the Wards. The reaction of the Pattersons was more important within the story. But what's great about the story-telling, is that the Wards end up playing a significant role by the end.
Would that scene have been as impactful if the child and family were white?
*Why do you characterize staying above the hateful as a strength and the emotion of revenge a weakness? That's one of the ol' tenets of movie story-telling: "Don't do it. You'll be no better than those animals." Aye yi yi.*
Because anger and hate are poisonous to one's self. If you go around being bitter and angry and hateful in life, it's gonna hurt you more than anyone else. And even if you harm those who have harmed you, is it over?
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Where's the score, Lively Gal -- *I thoroughly enjoyed "T-MEN" MM'57.*
Wow! I would have never guessed this. I thought it would be too dry for you.
*And I've made a discovery. I think I might be becoming hooked on the procedural docu-dramas.*
Double wow! That completely takes me by surprise! I'm not one who usually likes docu-noir, but I do like *T-Men*. It's a tough one with a stunning look.
*I'm pondering why I have this new-found interest in the docu-drama. Perhaps it's because it's a kind of a...sort of a minimalistic approach to filmmaking...in a way. You use a sonorously authoritative voice (like Reed Hadley's) to tell the story...he sets up all the action and the whys and wherefores; and then you cut to the scene and just show the meat of the action. Simple...easy. And there's an element of that here.*
I think you hit on it, there's a seriousness to docu-noir that slightly erases the fantastical of film.
*But what might set "T-Men" apart from the grand-daddy of all docu-dramas,* *"THE HOUSE ON 92nd STREET" is John Alton.*
I've yet to watch *The House on 92nd Street*, but I definitely agree with your touting John Alton with *T-Men*. It's one of his very best among many bests.
*John Alton. << (( Sigh!! )) >> As a filmmaker, I want to have his baby. He is a master chiaroscurist if ever there was one. He doesn't so much paint with light as he paints with darkness. Our introduction to Charles McGraw sets the tone immediately. The silver sheen of the film made my fillings ache. Steam baths, the camera shots from the floor looking up into a lamp, O'Keefe bowing his head as the shadow of his fedora covers his face, the Schemer on the phone in the forefront with just his eyes showing and the other guy in the background; and also the shot that you described MM'57:* *"In two shots one might be in the light and the other in darkness." It's all these touches and more that makes this docu-drama visually 'arresting' while we’re going through the procedures.*
That is perfectly said. All of those moments you point out are made more important because of the look of the shots. The visuals in the film greatly heighten our feelings, most notably our feelings of worry and fear. A simple scene all of a sudden feels dangerous.
*Dennis O'Keefe - Never crazy about this oatmeal-faced vanilla actor. But in "T-Men" he's done an 180-degree persona switch playing a tough mobster a la Dick Powell as Philip Marlowe. Big and brawny. He sounds very natural and believable. Don't tell me I have to give him< </span>+second< </em>look?*
I'm a Dennis O'Keefe fan because he's ordinary in his appeal. This makes him believable. He's very comfortable in film noir. *Raw Deal*, another great Mann/Alton film noir, is my favorite for O'Keefe. And I do believe O'Keefe is a "guy's" actor.
*Wallace Ford (Schemer) - Good performance. You know the type...loser, the wannabe. I still felt bad for him in the end; trying to scheme his way out of the inevitable. With no luck. Saaaaay, when did Ford get that 'character actor' look? I just saw him with Joan Crawford looking like a blonde-haired callow youth. No match for Gable of course, but he looked thin and young. This is now about ten years or so later; he's pudgy...paunchy. Ahhhhhh, the better to Act with my dear. (*"Shadow Of A Doubt"*).*
I really enjoyed him. I almost always do. I thought it was rather humorous that the three of them became roommates. Such pull!
What I really like about the film is how we meet people who we think are big-time, only to find out they are lower on the food chain.
*Art Smith - I love that guy. He's the Department Chief; gives the boys their assignment. I almost didn't recognize him. For a hot nanosecond I thought he was Harry Von Zell. Flat affect. Love that guy. Who is he? You know him...Bogie's agent in* *"In A Lonely Place" Robbie's psychiatrist in* *"Caught" and Jourdan's butler in* *"A Letter from an Unknown Woman." He's an asset in whatever he’s in.*
I really took notice of him in *In a Lonely Place*, and since then, I take notice when I see "Art Smith" in the credits. I loved his silent tenderness in *Letter from an Unknown Woman*.
*Charles McGraw - Quick, where can I hide? He's the pin - up boy for assassins! Cold, unfeeling, unblinking, McGraw makes Charles Bronson look like sisssy. He makes me think of Robert Shaw in* *"From Russia With Love." He’s ice. He’s like a shark, single-minded. If he's visiting you...you're dead.*
I love your "single-minded" comment. That's terrific. McGraw really is that. Like a good attack dog, you give him an order and he goes right after his goal, without any kind of hesitation or deviation.
*Jane Randolph - Is she the boss? No, but you've got to see her to see the boss.*+ *"The nature of the business is business Mr. Harrigan. Strictly." It was a surprise to see a woman involved in it, much less Randolph of* *"Cat People" fame. She was wonderfully haughty in this, calling on the spirits of gals like Eve Arden, Jayne Meadows and Kristine Miller. Loved that long cigarette holder and the matter-of-fact way she says:* *"About Schemer...get rid of him."+*
You know what? I didn't know she was "Alice"! Wow! She's completely different. She's superb in *T-Men*. You really believe she is boss. She's extremely confident and seemingly in complete control.
*And speaking of "THE HOUSE ON 92nd STREET” I watched the Extras that came with the DVD and they said that the house was actually filmed on 93rd Street in Manhattan. So I went there this autumn...93rd Street near Madison Avenue. Check out the movie and then check my pix against them. (Wish I knew how to do screen caps). Two of the guys walk past this building seen here, (virtually unchanged from the 1940's) to get to the actual house.*
That's great! I'll have to watch the film and then check out those photos again.
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*The ending, by the way, is in my opinion one of the greatest in film history.*
That's a very good tease!
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Hola, Bronxilla -- *I don't know how you feel about Fellini, but please add LA DOLCE VITA to your Must Watch list.*
I'll do that! I've yet to see a Fellini. My foreign-language exposure is very low.
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Those are phenomenal pictures of the Lovings (amazing), CinemAva. Talk about a walk through time and how the opinions of the day can be so wrong.
*I checked out "THE PHENIX CITY STORY" and it was a pretty brutal film. A couple of times, my eyebrows raised...I softly gasped at events I saw...at the language I heard; at the out & out brutality of folks wanting to have it THEIR way in this little town.*
I think the film does a very good job of portraying the cold-heartedness of power run amok and how brutally low it can stoop.
*But I didn't have the visceral emotional connection I had with "TOUCH OF EVIL." And I can't quite explain why. Something about "Touch of Evil" got under my skin...unnerved me...made me feel out of sorts.*
I'd say *Touch of Evil* benefits from having Orson Welles portray the man of power. He's the focus of the story. He dominates the screen. I'd say *The Phenix City Story* is more about a city with the plague. It feels like *Touch of Evil* is big and *The Phenix City Story* is small... and that suits both.
*The boy on the bike and the little girl being snatched was rough. I was taken aback. The scene with the little girl made me think of the Matthew McConaughey film "A Time to Kill" where Samuel L. Jackson's daughter is kidnapped. But I wondered in "Phenix City Story" why no follow-up was done for her murder. We jumped right to the trial of the young man who chased down the car that struck the little boy.*
I believe that's all about focus. The focus wasn't on the Wards. They were caught up in the storm.
*I'm afraid I wanted to see the bad guys torn to shreds by the mob, and then the militia come in to break up the joint, though the non-violent ending was very uplifting and boringly appropriately p.c.. I do realize that fighting violence with violence is never the right way to go. But yet...*
Very human. If my child is murdered, it would be darn near impossible to put aside violent feelings of anger and hate. And that's how it all becomes a mess. It's much harder to be strong (stay above the hateful) than weak (give in to the emotion of revenge).
*Miss G. warned us not to be fooled by 1955, but I didn't listen. How violent could it be, I thought to myself. Well...I sure found out. When the montage of violence comes fast and furious...I was shocked. Geez! And also, to know that this really happened...that this really still happens...have we not learned anything?*
Anywhere there is money and power to be had...
*James Edwards. ( Sigh ! ) Before Sidney Poitier there was James Edwards. I always liked him. Handsome, Strong. Dignified. (Reminds me of an actor from the 90's named Dorian Harewood). I like the reference to Gary Cooper. (Have any of you seen Edwards in* *"The Sandpipers"?) It would have been nice to have seen him get the news about his little girl; the emotional impact of that was missing -- to see him enraged and grieving as any father would. It says something to me that that wasn't included in the movie. Though I know everything can’t be in a movie I know the real reason better 'n that. Somewhat predictable I knew when Edwards (playing Zeke) had the chance to shoot or strike...he wouldn't take that chance. And his stopping Richard Kiley from killing Edward Andrews also felt predictable to me. ("NOW you invoke non-violence my brutha? Puhleeze.")*
What's interesting about the film is that it's not really a film about racism but it ends up including this, which makes it a much more powerful film to me. It's very much a "civil rights" film, for all kinds. It's a very brave film. The Wards are shown to be two of the strongest characters in the film.
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*Kind of Gary Cooperish.*
Now that's a compliment! Or is it?
*Hitch seemed to like him, too, he's in six of his shows. He really shines in them. He had a very distinctive voice, too. And yes, "Crackpot" totally had me fooled. It's one of the best.*
He's a big, lumpy guy but he seems so pleasant. But like Edward Andrews, his pleasantness can come off slimy. I don't know if you know the actor M. Emmet Walsh, but his style reminds me a little of him.
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*He looks exactly like some gentlemen from my old home town. I think it's the glasses. Those horn-rimmed glasses he sometimes wore, on men always looked creepy to me even as a child. They weren't too cute on women, either, but on men, ick.*
You're so silly and cute!
*Yes, he was the Corporal who kept having nightmares. He also was the Sergeant in Men in War. He always had such a sincere presence.*
Oh, yeah! I really like James Edwards. He really does have a sincere presence. That's the perfect description of him.
*You remember that one, it featured another actor who could play creepy along the lines of Edward Andrews...Bob Emhardt. Biff and his new bride have a flat tire and Emhardt stops to "help" them. Then he turns up at their hotel, in the next room.*
I definitely remember that episode. It's one that plays on you, because there's a nice twist to it. And I just saw Emhardt in a film last night. I always think of Alfred Hitchcock Presents with him.
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*I first saw him in the kind of "creepy" roles, so it was the other way around for me. Something about him always kind of gave me an unsettled feeling.*
He's one of those guys who can smile at you and you feel uneasy.
*And later he was in The Manchurian Candidate, wasn't he?*
Was he one of the brainwashed?
*"Don't Interrupt" (1958)*
*"Crackpot" (1957)*
*"The Hidden Thing" (1956)*
*"The Gentleman From America" (1956)*
Boy, it's been a while since I've watched the show. I only know of "Crackpot" by title.
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*You haven't seen Send Me No Flowers, then.*
Yes I have! I forgot he was in that. I was quite surprised to see him playing such an evil man.
*You mean hers?*
Uh-huh. She's really good in 227 .
*James Edwards had already done a few movies, starting with The Set-Up.*
Oh, yeah! I forgot about *The Set-Up*.
*Biff McGuire (Ellie's boyfriend) is in a few "Alfred Hitchcock Presents".*
What episode?
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*Was it ever real. Even the veteran performers were the kind that look like every day folk. Some of the small parts wouldn't surprise me if they'd been real townspeople.*
I really didn't know the performers with the exception of Richard Kiley and John McIntire. Although, I had just seen Edward Andrews in *The Tattered Dress*.
*My first instinct was to recoil from all I'd just seen and want to put it behind me. But I admit I was curious and the thought had crossed my mind to "google" a little more...I wanted to know what happened to "Rhett" (still can't get over that name). I'm glad Ro did it for me!
*And you say I'm shiftless!
*What for you was the strongest scene?*
It's definitely the child scene, but I knew about that before I watched the film thanks to Martin Scorsese's documentary. The other scene I really like is at the very end with the Wards, particularly Helen (Helen Martin). And I just realized she's the elderly lady in the TV show 227 ! This was his first role.
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*I reminded me of* *Captive City, but it was afterward that realized what a great set-up it really was. The movie would not have impacted me nearly as much without it.*
I do agree with that. What I liked was the entire feel of the era, particularly the "regular folk."
*Why?*
The film isn't your kind of film and you spoke of how you really didn't want to see it again.
*You're so crazy about violent movies.*
It depends on how it's used. Violence with an emotional impact is what gets me. This film has that in spades.
*It's funny, I bet I see Matt Dillon kill more people in one of his half-hour western shows than in this whole movie, but it isn't nearly as harrowing.*
There is a certain expectancy with western violence, plus it feels like a foreign world. But to see violence in an urban setting makes it feel all the more real.
*You should be impressed that Rohanka stayed up so late and did all that research.*
I am! I can't believe she had the energy to watch it so late and then to look up all she did. That really tells you how much the film impacted her.
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*Grey Dude.. the word "like" is not even in my vocabulary to describe how I feel after watching this film (very LAAATTTTTE last night.) But am VERY glad to have seen it. It was a truly engrossing and utterly amazing story of the DEPTHS of humanity and how absolutely EVIL men can be. (and yet, it was very inspiring to see the "good men" refusing to do nothing as a major theme in the story too)*
I'm very glad to hear you liked *The Phenix City Story*, Quiet Gal. I can't believe you were able to watch it in the middle of the night. That does say a lot. I thought you may like it because you tend to prefer a touch of realism with your movies. I also felt the rough nature of the film wouldn't turn you off too much.
*I started watching out of curiosity.. and then I had to see it all the through to the end.. and THEN I had to google around to find out more about the history of that whole story and the people involved and who they were and what happened, etc, etc*
The film starts off rather slowly, but it builds and builds. I never expected to see such violence.*And PS: what was even more shocking (for me anyway) is that after I started digging around, there is even more history to be told about the trial and who was convicted of what, etc, etc... I even saw a youtube of an interview with the son, later in life about the night his father died.. very interesting)*
That was a great interview. It's amazing just how cold-hearted the reality is. But whenever money and power are present and then threatened, trouble lurks.
*But (ugh.. as can be the case when you start digging around in history) I also found some not so favorable (if I read correctly) facts about the son and his later career as Governor of that state. As in.. (again, if I read correctly) it is entirely possibe that he COULD have been one of the antognists in a completely DIFFERENT movie about Alabama during the civil rights movement)*
I did read about that, as well. It's such a shame. To be on the right side of one thing but on the wrong of something even worse is stunning. But history is loaded with right sides and wrong sides.
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*that's putting it mildly. like i told ro, the intro works because it really sows the seed in your mind that what you're watching is the true deal.*
It really does. But I really struggled with the opening. It was draining me.
*What a difference between this and* *The Student Prince in Old Heidelberg...I know which I prefer to watch!*
I'm going to try and watch that later this week. I'm impressed by your giving *The Phenix City Story* another look.
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*Yes, they provided employment and attracted crowds, tourists, soldiers on leave.*
Exactly. Vice.
*It's very similar, though the real-life aspects made this movie harder to sit through.*
You've got that right. *The Big Heat* is more of a dramatic film whereas *The Phenix City Story* has a strong documentary feel to it.
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*Having seen it twice I'm still reeling by the impact of the brutality, the way the "machine", the syndicate, had absolutely no qualms, no hesitation...not one of them...to do or authorize doing the most vicious and savage acts. I was surprised that Rhett (GASP!!! HOW can such a beast have my beloved's NAME?!) actually did one of the worst deeds himself.*
It's basically a gangster film, how the boys from the neighborhood either stay clear of the town's way or they go work for the town. And sometimes you are forced to work in that world because it's all there is for you.
*I'd forgotten about what happened to Ellie Rhodes. I can't believe how brave she was. I'd have lost my gizzards working in a place like The Poppy Club after some of the stuff that went on, let alone stay and spy on them. I mean...goodness gracious.*
She was definitely taking her life in her hands. And...
*I sympathized with Mrs. John Patterson...I totally would have been the same...let's get the HECK out of this town!!!*
There's no way I could have kept my family in such a town. But that's how they get you. They push you out of your own home through fear. The "Big Heat."
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*I just finished* *The Phenix City Story. Why do you like it so much?*
I was greatly taken by how brutal the violence is depicted in the film. It's a film that really does grab you by the throat. I always like the story of minority versus majority and how those in power will stop at nothing to remain in power. Intimidation through violence is a tough one to stand up to. I really liked the ending. To see the non-violent response to the violent one was very pleasing.
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*I can't believe you hated* *Plymouth Adventure that much.*
There just wasn't anything to it, I felt. Spence is grumpy and he has a thing for Gene, but that's about it.
*Why did you like House of Fear so much? I like it too.*
Did you just watch it or are you going on memory? I like it because I love the impending doom within the house. I like that kind of tension. And then the twist is pretty good.
*It reminds me of Agatha Christie's Ten Little Indians...have you seen that one?*
No, I haven't seen any Agatha Christie.
I really enjoyed watching all of the Rathbone/Bruce Sherlocks. They are quite enjoyable and rather addictive.