[Western Movie Rambles]

I've been trying to think of a fun way to celebrate your birthday, Movieman. And I finally figured it out! How about...

 

 

Well, ummmmmm, I guess not. I better leave your birthday planning up the Mrs.

 

 

Have a very Happy Birthday, Movieman! Many more!

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

The biggest difference is the Duke and Maureen are more animated than Rock and Liz. Their "tone" is different. But the characters are ones the Duke and Maureen play.

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*You sound so convincing.. and yet... your "grey-ness" preceeds you.. *

 

I said there was cuteness! I think your being a wife and a mother, you'll appreciate the film. The film takes nice little turns. You'll be on one person's side then another's then another's. It's that kind of film.

 

*Besides... did I mention the whole "Rock, Liz, Dean Triple threat thing???? (because even if it IS as you say.. Rock and LIZ are still the husband and wife... and then there's James Dean who shows up and gets drunk and yells at them)*

 

You'll like what goes on with Dean. I believe you will like Rock. Liz is quite good. They are playing the Duke and Maureen. This is a generational film, ala *Big Jake*. There are also similarities to *The Quiet Man* and even *McLintock!*. If the Duke and Maureen were the leads, you would list *Giant* as one of your all-time favorites. It won't be that good, but it's their kind of film.

 

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*Sure.. tell me another one.... *

 

It is! It is! Lots of husband and wife. That's the film!

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

A warm Hitchcock good evening to you, Mrs. Drummond -- *Huh??? :0Still? 'Wha'chu talkin' about Willis?'*

 

All right! Diff'rent Strokes ! I used to watch that all the time when I was in grade school.

 

*I am not a good compass for you. You don't even think I made a good case for liking Hepburn as an actress. How can I guide like a good compass should? I am a broken compass. My arrows are pointing south. :-(*

 

 

It's warmer down south! That's the way to go! So what are your favorite Cagney films? I'm not worrying about what is recognized as his best. I want to know what you like.

 

 

*I wholeheartedly agree that it's People that count the most. But I wasn't negating people. On the contrary. See, I laud your openness to get us to know you...as well as we can< </em>know you or anyone else through this cyber-means. I was remarking that movies is just one aspect of your life (as it is of the rest of us) where we get to know you fully; and that it stands to reason that we know this one particular aspect of your life (...movies...) because we are on a Message Board about +movies. Maybe we can also get to learn your politics or feelings about women or animals or your worldview (in general) by the movies you like or dislike. So yep, people are important. I was referring to the topic of the one aspect of your life we are learning about here on the Message Board.*

 

 

WIth me, it's always about the people, though. I can talk sports, movies, music, politics, beliefs, and all the rest, but it's still going to be about the people with me. As you say, the movies can bring about a person's personality, which I love.

 

 

*STAGE DOOR - A bit of an outsider, but gives as good as she gets, warms the gals up to her...and becomes one of them. Loved her scene with her father (played by Samuel S. Hinds and the warm way she touched his hand and said "Dad"). While Ginger is a tart smart alec, Kate here is a smart smart-alec.*

 

 

That's great! Nicely expressed.

 

 

*WOMAN of the YEAR - She's smart and stylish and seems very modern. Pre-Feminism. (Oooh, a dirty word). Love to watch her 'professionalism' melt in the gaze of Tracy while she still holds onto herself. Love her in the dark...in the quiet. Some of her outfits were to die for.*

 

 

Her outfits? Not you, too! Awful!

 

 

*HOLIDAY - She's a girl who can be a pal. She's a girl trying to remain true to her core in spite of her wealth and its closed society. I like that she gets along so well with the way Cary Grant was in this movie.*

 

 

She's "Johnny Case," so she completely understands him. He helps bring her out. He frees her.

 

 

*ADAM's RIB - She's so comfortable here. I like how she mixes being a Wife and being a Lawyer...She seems fully married. And funny ("I know the difference between a slap and a slug. You meant that!")*

 

 

You're damn right!

 

 

*Impersonal about Kate? Naaaah...I like her for different reasons: on-screen and off. Kate is great.*

 

 

Now I feel ya. Sometimes people say the right things about those they respect but don't necessarily like, for whatever their reasons. That's what I was feeling with you and Kate. Now I understand differently.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

The Gooch

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*But alas.. ha.. unlike you, I DO know why I haven't been able to watch it yet.. ha. (I just keep thinking Hudson.. Dean.. AND Taylor..ugh.. a "triple threat" for me.. ha) But someday I DO plan to see this film.. I really would like to try, anyway..*

 

It's a family film with marriage being a huge aspect of the film. There's a lot of love to be found in the film, and even some cuteness. I think you'll like it.

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

Hola, Barbarella -- *MR. LUCKY is one of my favorite Cary Grant movies, beautifully photographed, bittersweet, funny, poignant, ultimately very romantic.*

 

Very nice! It really is all that. It's a film that surprised me. Jackie is one who pushed for me to watch it.

 

*Cary's expression on the staircase, gazing up at Laraine Day as she's fixing his tie, is truly amazing. The look on his face -- he sheds years and seems like 12 years old -- boyish, needy, hungry for love -- unforgettable.*

 

Geez, you made him sound like me. That's great! You did say forgettable, right?

 

*Can someone upload a screencap?*

 

That request would probably have to be answered by Jackie. I don't have it on DVD.

 

*I've never been able to sit through GIANT. I wish I knew why.*

 

That surprises me since you like Liz. It's definitely not a film for all. I like the turns in the film.

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*Bi-polar mother?*

 

Yes, Bippy!

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

Good evening, Mrs. Lucky -- *Nothing but the truth. I saw Mr. Lucky yesterday. I'll always think of you when I watch it.*

 

Wow! That's really cool! So I'm one of the thugs that gets gunned down at the end. I'm so damn memorable. Actually, *Mr. Lucky* reminds me of you, as well. I definitely identify certain movies with members on the board.

 

 

*Why is that, do you suppose?*

 

 

We just like different kinds of entertainment, that's all. I also think our genders come into play. I tend to be very "guy" and you tend to be very "girl."

 

 

*Have you seen Compulsion ?*

 

 

 

*For me, it's one of the cases where hearing about a movie so much, reading reviews can actually be a detriment to the enjoyment of the movie itself. I would never ask someone to watch it before they had seen at least one, or preferably two other Sturges comedies first.*

 

 

But that could throw them off. I think Sturges' other films are more about comedy than social commentary. That's what threw me off with *Sullivan's Travels*. I had watched *Unfaithfully Yours*, *The Lady Eve* and *Christmas in July* before I watched it. I really like all three of those films.

 

 

*I respond to the tone of movies first and foremost when I watch. If the tone is pleasing to me, then I am usually hooked. That doesn't mean that it has to have a pleasant tone. The Wild Bunch has a tone that made me want to leap out of my seat and run, right from the first scene..... but it's a brilliant movie, and after sticking with it, I found so much more within that tone, there is warmth underlying the cynicism. But it's rather nihilistic. Perhaps it's even a tonal change that happens in that movie, but so subtle that it is pleasing.*

 

 

I think a lot of people respond to tone but they don't realize it.

 

 

*They Live By Night has a warmer, and in some ways darker tone.... VERY emotional, which I love. At first one thinks it's cynical, but it deepens into almost the opposite of cynicism. It moves me because that web of warmth holds together without breaking or losing me. It's like a perfect souffle... one false note and it topples.*

 

 

The innocence collides with the guilt in *They Live by Night*. Nick Ray usually knew how to mix such contrasting worlds. He was one of the best at it. He was definitely one of the best at showing youthful ideals and anxiety. Making film noir the backdrop for all of this is alluring to me. I like the meeting of the male and female worlds. *On Dangerous Ground* is exactly the same with those components.

 

 

*I never thought about tone in people... I usually try to give people the benefit of the doubt. If someone's tone is combative or off putting, I will usually give them a couple more chances to see if they are in control of it. Many people are nice underneath a gruff exterior. Alice had a teacher who all the kids said was mean on the first day of school, but it was her tone. Alice, luckily, thought that maybe it was just her voice.... she turns out to be one of the most fun teachers Alice has!*

 

 

That's a cute story! So are you saying Miss G is actually sweet underneath all that snippy? Impossible!

 

 

Everyone has a tone and a BPM. How a person talks to you can tell you a lot about them. How they receive you tells you about them. You can often read if a person is selfish or unselfish, caring or uncaring, deep or shallow, and on and on.

 

 

*There is not a woman (or probably a man) on the face of this earth who doesn't know what it feel like when Alice is sitting in her corner at the party, pretending to be enjoying her self, putting on a brave front but having a miserable time alone. Oh, it makes me weep watching her...*

 

 

 

Oh, you women! That's because Alice has a horrible mom! Oh, wait. You're not talking about you, are you?

 

 

 

 

*It's funny, because I think men can so identify with George's outsider-looking-in and wanting of Angela so much.*

 

 

Oh, completely. That's the male aspect of *A Place in the Sun*. The meat of the story is masculine, but the presentation is feminine.

 

 

*I think I agree. We admire Hawks, because his view of his ideal woman is rather modern, purely by accident. We've moved that direction with time. I can see women of his day being offput by Hawks' women.*

 

 

Right. Many of the girls of this day are looking to be a "pal" with guys, which is what Hawks' women were. He was ahead of his time.

 

 

*And even in the shooting and camera work, there is a masculine feel to the film. That robustness. Everything is big, everything is vast, everything is sturdy, vigorous. The cattle seem like big blocks of meat. The house is rock solid, heavy, thick. Sorry for the pun. *

 

 

That is definitely "male." I also associate it with Texas. *Giant* became Dallas.

 

 

*There is more action in this film than any other Steven's movie, except for Gunga Din. And the action is harsh and big. here's a cattle stampede, and trains chopping up the landscape. My goodness, the set piece that bridges the two halves of the film is a geyser exploding! You can't get any more masculine than that. *

 

 

You're bad! And I like that, of course. The film mirrors the marriage of Bick and Leslie, which I feel mirrors most marriages. It starts off masculine but it slowly turns feminine over time. The woman softens the man. The end of the film ends up being *Father of the Bride*.

 

 

*Yes, I do feel that's the point of the picture. However, I find that my initial response to the film is as a romantic comedy. I feel that the discussion of ideals between the two men is masked in the guise of a women's picture.*

 

 

Really? Now that's very interesting. I know the ending puts a bowtie on things, but I still get the sense the film is mostly about the bonding of two men. The professor (Ronald Colman) even buys Leopold (Cary Grant) some borscht! Granted, I think he was also looking to make an impression with Nora (Jean Arthur).

 

 

*Absolutely. I find Cary's character to be an achingly truthful portrayal of how most men feel about marriage and family. As if I really knew how most men feel. Or any men .... *

 

 

We're easy to figure out! We hate showing that we're scared and incompetent and marriage and children tend to make us look that way. But I liked seeing Julie (Irene Dunne) struggling with the newborn and the frustration and embarrassment she had over it. That's definitely something some women struggle with at first. I'm the kind of guy who relaxes more when I see others are incompetent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I love that you categorize her as inviting. She most definitely is, very warm and feminine, especially in Woman of the Year. I love that you can see that, and I think this is what the two brought out in each other - something warm and playful, inviting and somehow, cheery. It makes me happy that there are couples who can be like this, it gives me hope for my own relationship. If Andrew ever threatens me with a gun, I hope it will be made of licorice!*

 

 

If he does? I would have thought he did that a while ago and at least once a week ever since! You need it! "Warm and playful" is how I found both Kate and Spence to be in the two films I have seen of theirs. They are that way in other films, as well.

 

 

*Uh-oh. You'll probably hate it! She's very "acty"*

 

 

I watched it. Now I have just one more film to watch before I post what I've recently watched. I hope you take a stab at guessing how I liked them. Then we can get to talking.

 

 

*Gosh, I haven't seen Boom Town in years. They are a great pair. I wonder why they didn't make any more movies together later on. No scripts good enough, I guess.*

 

 

 

I wonder if Spence didn't care to be second banana anymore.

 

 

*I have always thought that. That they could be free and open to express love in front of the camera, so to speak. The love just pours off of the screen.*

 

 

Precisely. The script calls for them to do it, so what they have to hide away from the screen can be out in the open.

 

 

*Yeah, well, you're in there too, stubborn guy. And you deserve to be yelled at. *

 

 

What?! Not me! I'm nothing but loving!

 

 

 

 

*I really need to watch that one again. I haven't seen it in years. And I own it. It's sort of last on my list of films to never get to. *

 

 

I like the commentary of *Mary of Scotland*.

 

 

*Of course, I thought you would actually like Top Hat.*

 

 

It was probably too much for me to watch with my first Fred & Ginger. I may like it more on my second viewing.

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

Evenin', Ma Stone *-- Hello my DEAR Jabez (ha.. how do you like that. I mixed TWO movie references in there just for you) *

 

Very good! Two films we have discussed on this board.

 

*REALLY.. I enjoyed it very much and found it in keeping with everything I have come to know and think about you.. and I mean that in the VERY kindest way with the deepest respect, my friend.*

 

Why do I feel like I'm going to hanged in a matter of moments?

 

*I like the way you enjoy covering a movie from every angle and chewing (and rechewing) on a topic (and diving headlong into the mud sometimes!) to uncover the multiple layers of each character in a story (along with the "why's and how-comes" of their behavior) And you really do have way about you of making what can even seem like just a simple and basic "black and white" story take on a deeper shade of GREY for me sometimes.. WHO'DA thunk it.. ha. UGH. (how DID you ever do THAT???? ha) *

 

Thank you! And this is what I was seeking when I joined this board. I wanted to find deep discussions. I wanted the discussions to challenge me in positive ways, not negative ones. Many of our discussions have led to my understanding and liking a movie a heckuva lot more than I did after I watched it. That's the value of discussion.

 

There have been times where I have watched a film and read what others have written and thought to myself, "are they crazy?!" You being one of them, Vance! But then I'd get into the discussion and I would start to understand their point of view and even see it their way in some cases. That's what I love about real discussions.

 

*I love the way you delve into the things that interest you (like the different genres you have begun to explore) and I am REALLY enjoying the way you are diving in and trying new films lately to seek out some new "old" favorites to enjoy. We have a lot in common there as I now have come to see that I only USED to think I liked "old movies"... until I found there are WAY more films for me find and to learn about and enjoy than I EVER knew.*

 

It's seemingly endless. And almost everything is "new" to me.

 

*I learned all that from hanging out around here..(and was able to make some truly dear friends in the process) And PS: You DO know that I ride on your coattails, sir. (Yours and those of all my "ramblin' friends.) And it is a very fun ride, I must say.*

 

Awwwww, that's sweet. Now I know I'm a dead man. I think we all build off each other, and I think that's beautiful.

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*Bon Jour Greymsey!!*

Hey, I like that!

Bonsoir to you.

*Whaddya want from me? My heart on my sleeve? Okay..here it is. I love Hepburn. She represents for me (for the most part) strength and confidence that I wish I had more of. She was very attractive...but not so frilly a girl. I loved her courage in her choice of roles where she wasn't afraid to look foolish...or to look strong when she was from an era where a woman's strength wasn't lauded. She went about her career like a businessman. She knew she couldn't have it all, (marriage/kids vs. career) so she made a choice, but didn't drag any kids down with the ship; the S.S. Successful Career. I love her outspokenness. Now I might be a little more emotionally attached to the melodramatic fireworks of my queens Davis and Stanwyck, but Hepburn is right in there. But in a little different way.*


*And I s'pose if I were really being all the way honest without a shred of "p.r." as you put it...two things speak to me about Hepburn that have nothing to do with her acting. One, her twenty-five year relationship with Spencer Tracy and all that that entailed (I can relate); and in a photo of M-G-M during their fiftieth anniversary, Hepburn sits right next to Louis B. Mayer ( power )...and she is the* *only woman wearing slacks ( comfort ), ( confidence ), ( non-conformity ). Geez, what's NOT to admire.*


Hmmmmmmm, but something remains amiss. It sounds like you admire her and what she stands for to you more so than you like her, which is more of a personal thing. I'm not talking about who she is off-screen, but her actual films and characters. That's where it gets personal. Recognizing someone is talented and gives good performances is impersonal.

*I hear ya. See, everyone has their own barometer. How many subsidiary characters on a tv show all of a sudden steal the show. ("How I Met Your Mother" is a case in point...but in this case, it kind of turned me off of the show).*

That's another interesting observation and question. I'm trying to think if I like a television show for its secondary characters more so than its primary. I'm not sure that I do. I usually like both. But I tend to like leads the most. This is another area where I'm different than Jackie. That's not to say that I don't like my share of supporting players, too.

*Short guy syndrome...ha-ha! It's all what speaks to your heart. There's not a film I can recommend for you to see and like him in.*

Not one?! I need a compass!

*but I hope he gets another chance. Cagney's such an icon.*

Oh, he'll get some chances with me. I'll eventually get to his gangster flicks.

*I’m not crazy about Colman (too stiff). But I won’t know about the movie until I dig in. Uh-oh. Something tells me this is going to be like eating spinach...good for me, but yucky going down.*

I expect it to be spinach for you. Cary Grant isn't the kind of Cary Grant you're used to. He's very good in the film, though. But Ronald Colman is the best. That's where the emotion is to be found.

*I wonder what Kathryn Bigelow's "Hurt Locker" feels like.*

I'm sure rather masculine.

*Oh man, not long-winded at all. It was great! Thank you! Thank you for your openness. It allows me to (kind of) picture you. Your genuineness. I loved your journey...the playful self-deprecating capsule. You learned your surroundings here. That takes time...patience in the midst of a busy life. You learned the people...and more importantly you allowed people to know you. Of course this is just one aspect of your life - movies. Who can know anyone. But that's okay. Hell, movies is what counts on a Message Board about...movies. Your story shows us your willingness to change; how you evolved. Thank you for sharing that. Thanxxx for letting me 'see' you.*

That's really kind of you, Lively Gal. I'm usually nothing but honest with my thoughts and feelings.

And I do disagree with one thing you wrote. I personally believe it's the people that count the most on a message board. The movies cannot discuss things with you. It's the people who do. We're on this board for the attention of people, not movies. What are movies without people? What's anything without people?

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

Hiya, Musicman -- *What a great story. It's always interesting to hear how someone evolved into classic movies.*

 

I'm always interested in how people come to like what they like. I liked your story about marking down what you watched.

 

*So often people start out with the big films.*

 

That's definitely the case. I know that's how I started with westerns.

 

*This is a perfect point about your Cagney films. You've come across two of his most famous films. He plays gangsters in both. There is so much more to him.*

 

But I'm guessing the best shot I have at liking Cagney is going to be gangster flicks.

 

*He was a dancer. Yankee Doodle Dandy and* *Footlight Parade give proof enough of that talent.*

 

Are you trying to kill me?!

 

*One of his most underrated and least known roles was playing Lon Chaney in Man of A Thousand Faces. A flair for comedy shows up in* *Mister Roberts and* *One, Two, Three. There are even a few westerns thrown in for good measure. It is when you get into the lesser known films that you often find the gems. But I'm not telling you anything you don't already know. There is a lot to see.*

 

There is. There certainly is. I may find my way to Cagney in due time. Three years ago, I never thought I'd have as many Wayne and Gable films as I do today.

 

*(And this is all the more reason to be nice to The Divine Miss G. *

 

I'm always nice to her! She needs to be nice to me! I'm nothing but loving to her and still I get slapped and kicked!

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

Good evening, Mrs. Lucky -- *That was a wonderful post, Briny Marlin. :x*

 

Thank you. That was sweet of you to say.

 

*I actually have some warm fuzzies about it myself. It makes me happy when we hit on all cylinders, because it happens so rarely. :DI think of you and I as somewhat alike, though for some reason, that doesn't seem to translate to the movies we enjoy.*

 

 

Yes, I believe our worldview is rather similar but our tastes in movies is different.

 

 

*I should have remembered that, but all I thought of was Twelve Angry Men. It makes me realize that I DO like the big well done courtroom dramas - the ones listed above and Witness for the Prosecution, Judgment at Nuremberg, Compulsion, The Caine Mutiny.....*

 

 

And after my saying I don't like courtroom dramas, I also like the ones that are well done.

 

 

*I AGREE! Something is out of kilter in the universe.*

 

 

I'd say! It's rare that we agree on how we feel about movies.

 

 

*I didn't hate Sullivan, but I wished it was more of a comedy the first time I saw it. It was actually kind of grueling to sit through. However, I now realize that it wouldn't pack the punch at the end if it didn't go that direction, and I like it better and better each time I see it. It's moving up my list of Sturges films.*

 

 

I have a feeling my journey with *Sullivan's Travels* may be similar to yours. I watched it when I was just starting to explore classic film. A film like that can be tough to appreciate when you are just starting out.

 

 

*I find it lovely in principle. But in the actual playing of it, I can't bear it. I don't think it's the issue of feminism that bothers me as much as that insistence by Stevens on embarrassing his stars. That ain't FUNNY to me. It makes me want to sink into the floor and hide. It's unbearably awful, somehow and that is no way to end a picture.*

 

 

Well, that's certainly a shining example of the embarrassment you speak of. I thought it was an odd way to end the film, too. It's very clumsy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Tone is something that is fascinating me more and more. How it's achieved, what sets a mood in a film, how the director makes something feel dark and mysterious, or light and frothy.... or switches from one to another without losing the thread of meaning that holds a picture together..... This is becoming my principle focus lately. What makes The Uninvited different from The Haunting.....*

 

 

Very cool! I'm very tonal. I respond to the tone of a person more than anything. The tone of films can definitely win me over or lose me.

 

 

*Well I can certainly agree there! A lot of women nowadays would pooh pooh both of these movies, but I find them charming, even with the embarrassment that ensues. I feel that that emotion is not tacked on in these stories, they generate it themselves. Whereas, Woman of the Year was never about embarrassment so to put our heroine through it is mere caprice on Steven's part. It's an arbitrary imposition on the story. I'm sorry folks, to keep harping on this one small part of the story. I'll stop now. I just can't tell you how much it bothers me.*

 

 

Yeah, I know the girls of today would most likely gag over *Alice Adams* and *Quality Street*. But, the thing is, the stories are still relevant today. The issues at hand are very female. A girl's self-esteem is still connected to physical appearance and image.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*That makes sense to me, so the tone is female. I see that, it's soft, warm and emotional, and is shot in voluptuous closeup.*

 

 

Perfectly said. You got it. *A Place in the Sun* is on the female side of film noir. You won't see too many guys name it as one of their very favorites. I like it, but it's not in my top 50.

 

 

*Gunga Din's tone is male - but of course it's story is male. It's crisp and action oriented, has it's dark parts, and never dwells in loving closeup on anyone.*

 

 

And that's what I'm expecting. I have a feeling *Gunga Din* will be a Stevens film I like because it's going to be more masculine.

 

 

*Interesting. What's His Girl Friday? Or is Hawks not fair? *

 

 

Good question! What I like about Hawks is that he's usually very male but he also respects woman, showing her keeping up with the guys. I see *His Girl Friday* as being more of a masculine comedy, but I also know modern women like the film because the woman is giving just as good as the guy... and in his world. The tone is masculine to me, though.

 

 

*I really like Dean early on in the film. He steals your focus, and I think this was purposeful on his part and worked for what the director wanted. But I think that the story is really Leslie's, not Bick's or Jett's. it makes sense when you realize it was an Edna Ferber novel. However, it skews male in Stevens hands. There is a robustness to his directing that I don't think he even matched in Shane.*

 

 

 

Fantastic observations! I like it. I agree, I do believe the story is Leslie's (Liz Taylor), and that's why I feel the femininity of the film. But, like you said, Stevens kind of pushes it back to being male because of all the goings on with Bick and Jett (James Dean). The "mine is bigger than yours" stuff is extremely masculine.

 

 

*Oddly, I agree here. But is it possible that this one is both too? Because it can also play as a woman's picture, with Jean making up her mind about which lover to take.*

 

 

But don't you feel that is almost an afterthought with the film? It just seems like that is in the background until... Don't you feel the real bond during the film is between the two men and their different views?

 

 

*True. And Once again, Stevens plays both sides of the fence, though I would be shocked to find a man who really loves this movie.... because I think any man can understand Cary's character. Like in Mr. Lucky, he's not really sure he's cut out for married life, or family. Gosh, I guess I like that side of conflicted Cary. He also has that same ambiguity in None But the Lonely Heart. He's a runner in that one too.*

 

 

I'm sure most guys can relate to Cary in *Penny Serenade*. It's just that most guys aren't going to seek this kind of film for entertainment or name it as one of their very favorites. It's commonly viewed as one of the greatest tear-jerkers of all time. Men and tear-jerkers usually don't go hand-in-hand.

 

 

*That totally cracked me up! See? Maven gets me.*

 

 

At least somebody does!

 

 

*More payment! I love compliments.*

 

 

All women love compliments. And any man worth his salt should love to compliment women.

 

 

*That's a funny description, that happens to fit. I don't think most people think of her as 'inviting', but it's very apt. She isn't afraid to look foolish, and this for me is the real charm of Hepburn. You instantly like her for it. She's warm and she's a goofball.*

 

 

You know, you're right! How odd it was for me to say she is "inviting" when some find her grating. That's hilarious! But I really do find her inviting. What I have enjoyed in the two Spence films I've watched is how feminine she has been. She's very playful. I love that about her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Interesting! Yes I see that. Spitfire is a honking mess, and again, I'm probably the only person who actually likes it. It's got a great idea, there is magic in it, and that's always a hook for me. It''s also about an "other" - someone outcast, and I'm a sucker for that too. Most people in fact, HATE it and say it's goshawful.*

 

 

That sounds like a great challenge! I'm gonna have to watch it now. I will do so in the next three films I watch.

 

 

*I'm looking forward to seeing how she does in the middle of her career. I definitely like the younger Kate.*

 

 

*So get going!*

 

 

I can't get to everything at once! Women!

 

 

*That's a beautiful description of Spencer. I do love the simplicity of him. He truly gives you the feeling he's an "average Joe." This is why I really enjoy the pairing of Gable and Tracy. I need to watch Boom Town.*

 

 

*Have you seen it before?*

 

 

No, I haven't. I just recently got the DVD.

 

 

*That's so true. But to make that happen on a soundstage is hard, even with your partner! I think they had to work hard to look that casual.*

 

 

Great point. It really is a testament to their abilities, above all else. I also wonder if the set was almost like their real life. It's a place where they could be together, in the open. "Oh, they're just acting," when there was so much more to it.

 

 

*There's a lot of yelling. :DIt walks a fine line between good and terrible. It fell over the fence on the good side with me. *

 

 

Lots of yelling? Is Miss G in that film? I'm sure Quiet Gal is.

 

 

*Remember my tastes are a bit perverse, I like things that others rank low on their lists. I don't want you to end up hating everything by Kate and Spence! It's just I wanted to pull out a "failure" from each to show how they grew as actors. I think these two early movies show something of the greatness of each.... but one has to see them flailing and reaching to really know how much it took to get to those future performances.*

 

 

 

Hey, I like *Mary of Scotland* and I haven't seen anyone like it to the level that I do.

 

 

*Hey, did you watch Adam's Rib?*

 

 

Yes, I did. I'm trying to watch three more films before showing what I have recently watched. *Spitfire* will be one of those three.

 

 

*I don't know if you might not like it. It's very quick moving, with a TON of great supporting characters and performances. And it's definitely done tongue in cheek.*

 

 

"Tongue in cheek" could work for me. It's the setting that is troublesome. I do have it on DVD.

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

Good afternoon to you, CinemAva -- *Yikes! My sense of whimsy is not traveling well here at Ye Olde Messy Board. Ohhhkay. Yes...I am a Kate fan. Her strength and confidence in her roles and how she lived her life inspires me as a woman...and as an artist.*

 

That sounds like public relations!

 

*Yes, you're right. The hierarchy was in place; first, the leads (Bill & Myrna)...then the second tier (Spence & Harlow). But I found myself waiting to get back to Spence and Harlow...or Powell and Harlow. The center stage story didn't interest me as much.*

 

 

That's amazing. I'm trying to think of a film that I love but it's not for the primary story. That would usually place such a film into the middle or below-average category with me.

 

 

*Cagney? Wow. I'm surprised. I thought Cagney was every boy's dream: tough guy, snappy patter, pro-active, took no guff from anyone and could rest his head on Ann Sheridan's shoulders if he had to.*

 

 

From what I've seen of him to date, he's too much for me. He's got the annoying short guy syndrome. I prefer a different kind of speed and tone. But I'm just starting out with Cagney. I've only seen two of his films: *White Heat* and *The Public Enemy*.

 

 

*I'd have to say I really enjoy and relish his performance in "LIBELED LADY." Yes it's silly and Not Important. He doesn't tackle Big Ticket Items like Racism or Politics or Evolution. He's a fast-talking shyster, a little 'whipped' by Harlow. I find him accessible...I feel I can get close to him.*

 

 

Wow! That stuns me, actually. You've been hinting at not being that big on Spence, so I guess it shouldn't surprise me.

 

 

*Jean Arthur doesn't even make the top 50 of my list of favorite actresses,*

 

 

And that's what I figured. I'm a Jean Arthur fan (she's # 15 with me), so I like her in almost everything. And, most of the time, it is her that helps me really like a film. She's a whiny kind of gal, one of the very best. I don't think you like such gals. Many women do not.

 

 

*I don't mind the masculine tilt in films. In an awful lot of movies, we're just "The Girl" anyway. I believe movies, in general, stems from the male gaze anyway and I've learned to maneuver (or've been brainwashed) on how to look at movies. So that 'slant' doesn't bother me. But a movie'd better be good.*

 

 

Oh, I'm not so sure. You will have to watch *The Talk of the Town*. Do you like Ronald Colman? Something tells me you don't. I think this is a Colman film for those who aren't that keen on him to like him in. I loved him in *The Talk of the Town*.

 

 

Classic films are predominantly made by men, so you're right, it's still coming from the male gaze. Even though a film is directed at women, it's still done so by a man.

 

 

*Really good, Grimesy. I like what you write here. I think the human spectrum or the human experience has more gradations than rigid absolutes. I'm suspect of people who are 100% this or 100% that. Ooooh, those "100% Thats" are galling!*

 

 

I'm with ya. Remember, I'm the "grey" guy.

 

 

*I wonder what you'd think of "On Golden Pond" where these two giants meet near the end of their careers and pull out all the stops.*

 

 

I'd probably like it. I'm sure I'd be in tears.

 

 

*AND if it* *is Art imitates Life, can we really give "Tracy & Hepburn" kudoes for their acting (in all their movies together subsequent to "Woman of the Year") since what they might be doing is just playing out their real life relationship on screen?*

 

 

I think they are completely relaxed around one another because of the off screen, and this allows them to be more natural on screen. Like a happy couple, the actions of the one bring out the best reactions in the other. They are at play (love), not work. If I'm asked to be affectionate around a woman I don't know that well, I'm going to be more guarded. But if I'm around the woman I love, I'm gonna be very loose. I know I can "spank" her.

 

 

*I started watching classic films during the year of the flood...so far, long ago in my past when the Pyramids were being built, that I don't even remember how or why my love started.*

 

 

 

 

*Since you're a "relative newbie" to these films and since this is in your recent history...was this a very conscious decision on your part to get into these great old movies? WHY did you? Are there people close to you now that share this journey with you, or are you alone in all this folderol stuck with the likes of us?*

 

 

Incoming! A very long-winded answer!

 

 

I was very narrow-minded as a kid, on into my teens and twenties. I still can be, as many of you know. I can be "kicking and screaming." As a kid, I loved the Three Stooges and I liked Abbott & Costello. I also liked watching the 60s sitcoms in syndication. That was the extent of my classic watching. The rest of the time, I was into what was popular, be it music, TV, or movies. This would last until high school, where my best friend introduced me to *Monty Python and the Holy Grail* and *Young Frankenstein*. I ended up loving both films. So the door was slightly opened.

 

 

Then my best friend went away to college (Syracuse) and came home the next summer, talking up old movies, such as *Casablanca*. I, of course, poo-pooed it all and thought he was crazy. I was very much stuck in my childish world, a selfish world.

 

 

Over the next few years, my brother and his best friend started to make movies on a camcorder. They also started to buy laser discs and watch all kinds of films. They were mostly into the action flicks that young guys would be. But they did seek out some of the classics, including *Out of the Past*. I decided to watch it with them and I proceeded to make fun of it. I was all over the stylized talking. So, even though my brother and his friend are three years younger than me, they were more mature than I when it came to movies.

 

 

My biggest hang-up, other than my selfish, narrow focus, was that I couldn't relate with the older films. I mean, all the men dressed in suits, for goodness sake. That's not me. That's nowhere near me.

 

 

Then my brother and his best friend watched *The Wild Bunch* and something clicked with me. This was a film I could relate to. It had a modernity to it. Ever since then, I have felt that film to be a good "gateway" classic for younger men. So, once again, the door was opened a little more for me.

 

 

During this time, FX and TV Land were just launching and I ended up watching older shows, such as Gunsmoke and Rawhide. I loved them both. How so? The emotions involved. I had matured, emotionally. I didn't know it at the time, but I was now ready to associate with classic film. It was the emotional maturity that I needed.

 

 

By 1997, my desire to learn hit me. The object of my desire? Hitchcock. I wanted to delve into his films. I wanted an education. I wanted to really give older movies a try. This was a "very conscious decision" on my part. So I decided to record as many Hitch films as I could during the film preservation festival on AMC. I ended up watching *Strangers on a Train*, first. I loved it. Then I watched *Dial M for Murder*. I loved it. I watched *Rope*. I loved it. The door was now busted wide open. If I could handle filmed plays, I was ready for classic film. I seemed to like the idea that I was watching something others were not. That I was going to another level of enlightenment. Of course, as many classic film fans know, this can also be a curse, for the world can be a lonely one, as I soon found out.

 

 

So the seeds were planted for my classic film love, but I didn't really cultivate them until 2005. I left my classic love at Hitch and kept it there. But then my brother suggested I watch *12 Angry Men* and *Inherit the Wind*. He and I share a similar belief system, so he felt I'd love both films. He was right. I ended up getting them on DVD and watching them many times. So now my love of classic film is truly born and it's ready to blossom.

 

 

From those two films, I decided to try westerns since I loved Gunsmoke and Rawhide. I went to Amazon and looked over the lists that customers made, trying to get a lead on what westerns to get. I took a stab at a few, such as *Red River*, *The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance*, and *The Searchers*. I mostly liked them, so I continued to look into westerns. Meanwhile, I started to collect Hitchcock's films on DVDs. So now I'm not only into wanting to see classics I have never seen, I'm wanting to collect them on DVD.

 

 

By 2006, I was really getting into it all. I was looking to record Hitchcock films that weren't on DVD or that I wasn't able to buy just yet. I did this thanks to TCM. Little did I know I would end up getting ALL of Hitch's films on DVD. Eventually, I started to take gambles on film noir. It was the "genre" that interested me the very most. I ended up getting the first Warner film noir box set. In that collection is... *Out of the Past*. I watched it and loved it. I had evolved. And if you'd talk to my best friend about me with this kind of stuff, he'd tell you that I'm always late to the party because of my stubbornness with change.

 

 

In 2007, I found myself deep into classic film. So much so that my lifelong passion of sports had waned like it never had before. I was seeking something new. There was one major problem, though. I had zero outlet. Only my brother had interest in classic film, but I had eclipsed him in my passion for it. So I was stuck. This pushed me to look for a message board to disccuss my new passion with others. I had been familiar with message boards and talking with people around the country since I ran a baseball website for close to ten years. Still, I found myself scared to death of joining an on-line community about classic film since I knew I was so new to it all. Was I willing to expose my ignorance?

 

 

I checked this board because I was recording Hitch off of TCM. I browsed the board for a good week. I was trying to see what was being discussed and who was discussing it. My goal was to talk Hitch and film noir. There was a small group who talked film noir. They are now at SSO. But the one member's name that stood out to me before I joined was the biggest blabbermouth going then: Miss Goddess. I was amazed by her ability to talk about all kinds of films, but especially film noir. I was thinking to myself, "who the heck is that?" Little did I know she was that darn snippy and full of smacks and kicks! I should have known better! She's left her mark on this man. Many!

 

 

When I first joined the board, I was pretty damn outspoken. June was the spotlight on homosexuality in film and I spent quite a few evenings babbling about it. That's the liberal fight in me. But I eventually settled in here, learned the members, the ways of the board, made very good friends, like yourself, and here we are. Thanks to you and quite a few others, I'm still evolving as a classic film fan. I try to keep the door open, even though it wants to shut sometimes.

 

 

I've learned a lot thanks to the people on this board. I'm talking about life and relationships and movies. In that order. It's been an invaluable experience. It's always about the people with me. The movies are the unifying topic, but it's the people who mean the most to me. I'm around some really good people, to whom I'm forever grateful.

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*I don't think it's soft at all, but my idea of soft and yours are far different.*

 

Man and woman!

 

*This is the only film on your list I've seen.*

 

That's because the others are film noir!

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*I loved* *Roughshod , but I don't remember it very well either and I don't have a copy. I thought Gloria was great and so was Myrna Dell. Claude Jarman Jr. was perfect in this one. I think Beulah Bondi is in it too, a really small moving part. It really got into some interesting territory. It surprised me.*

 

When I saw that you liked the film, I knew I had to see what the hullaboo was all about. You're not setting me with a "soft" western, are you?!

 

I do like the director.

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*OK, I have to re-watch that since I really don't remember much about it. I did enjoy it, though.*

 

I'm ready for some Gloria.

 

*He and butterscotch seem to be on the same schedule!*

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... !

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*Well, let us know which one you watch first.*

 

Probably *Roughshod* .

 

*He disappeared again.*

 

He almost makes me seem active and lively!

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*I don't know what others have access to or have seen and liked. I think Jackie said she really liked* *Roughshod.*

 

I believe you are very right about that.

 

Where is Molo? I've got Astaire & Rogers and he ain't even around! I have a couple other films of his, too.

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*I hope you do give Din a try, it's a real "guy's" movie to me.*

 

It seems to be. I usually hear good things about it from guys.

 

*So when are you going to watch these movies?*

 

I can watch one whenever you wish. My "next movie to watch" slot is currently open.

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*I don't know why it never occurred to me before, but* *Gunga Din has a lot in common with* *Wee Willie Winkie, which you said you liked. Besides both being based on Kipling characters, the characters themselves (Din and Wink) are rather similar. Both are outsiders, or don't really belong in the regiment, yet both long to and yearn to be accepted as "good soldiers". Din does EXACTLY the same little bit as Shirley in the earlier film where he wants to be "drilled" just like the regular soldiers. And of course, there's Vic, playing roughly the same kind of character. Where emotion and a child's point of view are the focus of Ford's film,* *Gunga Din mixes action/comedy and a little sentiment, with the empasis on action and some spectacular sequences. I think from this point of view, you'll be okay with the movie.*

 

All of that sounds great to me. It looks like I'm gonna have to get *Gunga Din* on DVD.

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*Why don't you list the five films, either noir or any genre, that you most want to see next and discuss here on the board?*

 

I looked it over and these films interest me:

 

 

 

Roughshod

City of Fear

The Hitch-Hiker

Thieves Highway

Stranger Impersonation

Underworld, U.S.A.

 

I'm also interested in the Sherlock Holmes films.

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

Howdy, Denver -- Are you ready to dance?

 

*OH NOOO. I am really freaked out. Not only do I feel the same as you about Woman of the Year, I also agree 100% about the two couples in Libeled Lady. YIKES! Is it Halloween yet???? I feel like I;m in a horror movie. Or Fritz Lang.*

 

Boo!

 

 

But don't worry, we're headed to some disagreement. But I will say that whenever you say you agree with me, I actually feel like I accomplished something.

 

 

*I didn't remember that!*

 

 

*Inherit the Wind* is tenth on my all-time favorite list. It's a film I've watched over ten times. I love it.

 

 

*Not to digress from the topic at hand, what is it that makes you not huge on it?*

 

 

When I was starting to branch out with classic film, back in 2007, I chose Preston Sturges as a director to watch. I expected straight comedy from him and *Sullivan's Travels* plays more like a social commentary than a comedy with me. It's more "Capra" than Sturges. That's not a bad thing, but I really like Sturges when he's more comedic than dramatic.

 

 

*I don't feel that it is. If it was his intent to be even handed, it failed, for me anyway. It rubs me enough the wrong way to make me turn away from the movie.*

 

 

I find it cute. I like seeing a woman wanting to please their guy. I like the entire idea of a woman who has no idea what she's doing in the kitchen but wanting to try. I like her wanting to be like "dear old mom." It's very loving.

 

 

*Oh, wait! I see that you meant it TOPS the female films. I really thought you meant it is at the top of the list of female films. I get it.*

 

 

Yes, Silly Goose! I consider *Shane* to be a "masculine" film, although there is real female presence to be found in the film, which is wonderful in a western.

 

 

*I never think of gender when it comes to films. Oh maybe with really obvious women's pictures, but mostly no, I don't categorize or compartmentalize. I don't actually do that for anything, not with people, not with films, not with jobs. I don't think that way, I am more scattered.*

 

 

I notice tones. I usually sense a film is going to connect more with women than men and vice versa. Many films do have a slant, a focus. The key is with what the sexes seek in their entertainment. What a man wants out of a film is going to be different than a woman, in a general, broad sense.

 

 

*I agree that Stevens concentrates on women and their issues exceptionally well.*

 

 

Completely. *Alice Adams* and *Quality Street* are very "female." Now both films feature a male component to them, but the focus is primarily feminine. And I fully expect women to find them more entertaining than men.

 

 

*But I think some of his movies work both sides of the fence - A Place in the Sun, Woman of the Year, Giant, The Talk of the Town and Penny Serenade are very even handed when it comes to gender issues.*

 

 

*A Place in the Sun* is a real nice mix. It has a male focus and masculine dark side but with a female kind of setting and presentation. Still, I'd say it leans "female."

 

 

*Woman of the Year* is mostly neutral, but I usually find comedies of this era to lean "female."

 

 

*Giant* is an interesting one. Both sexes are definitely represented, quite nicely. The domestication of Bick by film's end softens the tone and pushes it "female," but I just don't see *Giant* being "female." James Dean's character is definitely "male." He's fascinating in the film.

 

 

I view *The Talk of the Town* as mostly "male." The woman in the film is caught in the middle and is mostly absorbing what's going on. She's not an active participant in what's being discussed. It's a battle of ideology with two men driving the conversation. The masculine tilt is a big reason why I don't think CineMaven will like it. I'm not sure if she's a Jean fan, either.

 

 

*Penny Serenade* is very "female" to me because it's a tear-jerker about home and family. That's not to say guys are not about home and family, because I'm definitely a guy who is this. It's just guys do not seek such films for entertainment. Women do. And, yes, I know some gals who would gag over such a film and some guys would cry over it. It's never, ever 100% one or the other.

 

 

*AARRGH! Did I just say that Woman of the Year is even-handed?*

 

 

Yes! What happened to you?!

 

 

*WHYYYY do you make me do it? *

 

 

I like when you do!

 

 

*Well, after having seen it again, my problems with it don't seem founded on anything but my own mood the last time I watched it. I thought that it was ethnocentric and treated the "others" (in this case the East Indians) with condescension. However, on this viewing, this issue did not bother me as much and I'll tell you why. The bad guys had a very interesting reason for their murderous plans, and there was full representation of good and bad Indians. It's a little ewwww-y the way that Gunga Din himself is shown, but you can't have everything in a movie from 1939. I thought the movie was much better than I remember it. In fact, I enjoyed it very much.*

 

 

I'm expecting there to be an uncomfortable feeling for me with *Gunga Din*. But if the film is exciting and engaging, I may be able to look past that stuff..

 

 

*That's payment enough for the agony I suffered in making them!*

 

 

I'm glad you suffered. You did an awesome job.

 

 

*Oh yes I am! These are my favorite performances.*

 

 

Oh! So you did as I did. Your list of favorite Kate & Spence films would be different than your list of favorite performances. There can be a great difference between the two.

 

 

*You can see I AM a Kate fan from way back. I could have listed maybe a dozen more movies of hers that I am not as fond of.*

 

 

Fantastic! I pretty much like Kate in everything I see her in. I think she's rather inviting.

 

 

*I actually love Stage Door and Spitfire, but this is a list of performances, not favorite movies. Her performance in Stage Door is very good, but I thought the others were much better.*

 

 

I completely agree. I love Ginger and the rest of the cast in *Stage Door*. Kate is good in the film, but she's playing a straight line.

 

 

*As for Spitfire, I just love her character and the movie theme, but I think many would agree that her acting is a little odd. Her accent is just plain weird and she is sort of all over the place, she is still learning her craft. For all of that, I find it one of the most fascinating performances that she gave, even if it is one of her biggest flops. I love that she would go this far in a role. She has no fear of failure and I LOVE her for it.*

 

 

I've yet to see that one. And I really do like performers who took on different challenges, ala Henry Fonda. That's who I vew simiarly to Kate.

 

 

*I actually love Kate all the way through her career. However, she really does some KILLER acting as she entered her middle and late years. As good as she is in the thirties, these five roles at the top of my list are so astoundingly good that no one else could ever match them. And I've tried! I've tried saying some of the lines in these movies, and I must tell you, to know how good she is, you have to try it yourself. You'll die laughing at how bad you are - the meaning she can wring from one little line is amazing. She's just superb in all of them. They are her and she is them.*

 

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how she does in the middle of her career. I definitely like the younger Kate.

 

 

*Again, he is simply great all through his career. But in his later years, he distilled every emotion, every thought until he was the essence of whatever his character was. So simple, and yet so hard to accomplish. I remember hearing Vincente Minelli say that on the set of The Actress, Spence had a line in which he had to be angry, embarrassed, and confused by his daughter's ambition to be an actress, all at the same time. When time came to roll film, Spence was so much the character, he blushed bright red with the emotion of what was happening. He said you can see it, and more importantly FEEL it coming out of the film when you are watching him as the father. He's so complex, and yet, so simple outwardly.*

 

 

That's a beautiful description of Spencer. I do love the simplicity of him. He truly gives you the feeling he's an "average Joe." This is why I really enjoy the pairing of Gable and Tracy. I need to watch *Boom Town*.

 

 

What I have noticed with Spence and Kate is how they make home life look so real. Both are truly relaxed around the other. Just Spence's facial expressions and mannerisms make you feel as if he really is at home, in his robe and slippers, with his feet up, relaxing.

 

 

*I ranked Bad Day at Black Rock first because I think it was a stretch for him, but he does it in such a way that it does not seem like it. He's this TOUGH TOUGH old bird...and maybe he was in real life, but to me, it's unlike any other character he ever played. He AIN'T putting it on, it's inside him. He is a MEAN S.O.B, but for the right cause. Now, I know that Tracy was sick during this film.... but I TOTALLY BELIEVE that he can take out Ernest Borgnine with one hand without a doubt. THAT is great acting.*

 

 

Great point. And I don't think many would argue with you over selecting it as his greatest performance. It's truly representative of Spence.

 

 

*The rest are the films that I feel he just becomes the character with no visible strings. When you get down toward Riffraff, I know some people don't think this was a good performance. I like the journey he take. This is the first film (1936) where we suddenly get that warm Spence - the Spence who can relax and let the audience come to him. In his scenes with Harlow at the end, he's made such a change, he's become tender with her, and we see him take a step back to look at himself. He's been cocky and full of himself up until this point, but he has gone through that introspection and self loathing that we see in many of his characters. I really like his performance here because it's the first where he just melts into an essence, a very real person, despite the rocky start and put on accent at the beginning. He stops using tricks in his acting.*

 

 

Hmmmmmmmmm, you really make that one sound fascinating. It looks like I'm gonna have to add that one to the list. I'm trying to give Jean Harlow a good look, too.

 

 

*I was definitely ranking performances.*

 

 

Perfect! I should have realized that you were.

 

 

*You know, I think their movies together are almost a different entity to me. They remain separate from their other performances. I watch them for fun, and rarely think about the acting, which means they are doing a good job!*

 

 

That's a superb point. And I have already sensed this in watching them together.

 

 

*Yes. It's the one I think is their best. It happens to be my second favorite, but usually when I see it, I think "God, this is SO GOOD." and I enjoy it for every piece of it. The script, their rapport, the supporting cast.... everything to me is perfect here. Oh, and I really like Judy Holliday, though Miss G doesn't. One of the few times we disagree!*

 

 

And guess what? I think I'm more on Snippy's side with this one. But I didn't have much problem with Judy. She was okay.

 

 

 

*Some of his themes are muddled, as if he changed his mind in the middle of filming, as to what the movie was actually about.*

 

 

That's precisely the feeling I have had with a couple of his films.

 

 

*I don't think of him as a favorite director, no. And yet, you have a point, I do like many of his movies, some I love and some are very high on my list. Shane didn't do a thing for me for a long time. Now it ranks first. For years, I didn't like A Place in the Sun. I still wouldn't call it a favorite. And yet, I watch it almost every time it's on, and I cry at the end. I find it a very very well made movie. It just isn't really my "type", and Monty Clift is not my favorite actor. I don't jump unreservedly into Steven's movies. I don't lose myself in them.*

 

 

I can't see *A Place in the Sun* being your kind of film. It seems too "pretty" for you, despite the ugly in the film.

 

 

Stevens is a little too "female" for me to like him more than the "male" directors that I like. He's # 40 on my list, right now.

 

 

*That;s right. And we are lucky that Rock Hudson could make those changes. He did enough dramas and comedies to pull off the performance. He also is rigid in the first section, and was a good enough actor to be able to let people see him as wrong.*

 

 

You women tenderize us, so we're bound to soften as we age. Rock is an actor who is starting to rise up my list. I'm starting to like him.

 

 

*I think you might like him in my favorites, The Life of Jimmy Dolan, Union Depot, Young in Heart and The Prisoner of Zenda.... though that last one may be rough going for you. I don't know whether you will love it or hate it. It has Maddie Carroll though.*

 

 

Maddy is always a huge selling point with me. The story worries me, though.

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*Awwwww, she's a'ight!*

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

 

*Ohhhhhh. I see what you're saying. I love "LIBELED LADY" b'cuz of the ensemble acting of the foursome. Of the two couples, I liked Spence and Harlow better. They drove the plot more. Myrna was kind of a bore in this with not much to do; but I do love her so, in general. She was the straight man to the antics at hand in that movie.*

 

I figured you would like it for the ensemble and I was pretty sure you liked Jean, but I wasn't sure how you liked Spence. I felt he was mostly in the background in the film. The same with Jean. It was Bill and Myrna who I felt took center stage.

 

*I gotcha. You liked those two films...and Marilyn happens to be IN them. Funny, neither of those are 'Marilyn Monroe' films...but Marilyn's in 'em. One of my very favorite Marilyn Monroe films, then, is "ALL ABOUT EVE." See what I mean?*

 

Yes, that's precisely it.

 

*Yes I do love the ensemble...but Spence is not the "main draw" for me. I daresay, I can't really say that I've ever thought to myself: "Ooooh, Spencer Tracy's in this or that movie. I've got to see it." He, in and of himself, is not what puts my butt in the seat. But when I watch him, I know I'm watching a Good Solid Actor.*

 

You respect him but he doesn't really do it for you. I'm trying to think who that would be for me. Maybe someone like James Cagney.

 

*For example...and don't worry I'll be brief, I love "A Guy Named Joe." But I'm watching it for Irene Dunne but I like the way Spence is in this movie. Ha! It sounds all jumbled and tangled when I explain the thought processes of the "Maven's" mind (ha!)...but I think you know what I mean. By the by...I think I'll go out on a limb here and say that Irene could Kate a run for her money in the "Teaming with Tracy" department. She is so solid with him. I loved their relationship in that movie.*

 

Irene is an easy-going kind of actress; very smooth. But the off-screen with Spence and Kate is definitely on screen and that's hard to match.

 

So what is your favorite performance by Spencer Tracy? Not favorite film. Not your favorite character of his. I'm talking performance. When I answered Miss G's question, that's what I focused on. For example, my favorite film and character for Spence is *Inherit the Wind*. But my favorite performance is *Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde*. With Kate, my favorite film is *Holiday* and my favorite character is *Bringing Up Baby*, but my favorite performance is *The Philadelphia Story*.

 

*Aaaah...it's a western. *

 

You may wish it was!

[The Annual FrankGrimes Torture Thread]

*Thank you for your confidence in my compass. Tell me my strong suit and my weak spot.*

 

You're very good with stars and the 40s. They are clearly strongsuits for you. I'm not turning to you for help with silents and westerns, though.

 

*Whoaaaa. You're making me look at my own lists. I guess I do prefer Kate’s Kate & Spence films. I kind of didn't really know that.*

 

 

So would you call yourself a Kate fan?

 

 

*If I'm not mistaken, TCM will be airing "Undercurrent" later this month, so that might be your chance to record it.*

 

 

I actually have it recorded but I'm looking to get it on DVD.

 

 

*Kate does not look girlish in "Sylvia Scarlett." I'm just sayin' forewarned is forearmed.*

 

 

Yes, I know. But it's a film I've heard good things about, so I'm very curious about it.

 

 

*So do you list Libeled Lady at the top for Spence is that for others?*

 

 

 

*I'm not 100% sure I understand the question.*

 

 

 

Do you like *Libeled Lady* because of Spence or do you like it more because of the other stars? For example, with me, I love that film because of William Powell and Myrna Loy. Spence and Jean Harlow aren't as interesting to me as Bill and Myrna.

 

 

If you asked me to list my favorite Marilyn Monroe films, *Clash by Night* would be at the top. But I don't love that film because of Marilyn. *The Asphalt Jungle* would rank next, and it's the same case with that film.

 

 

I'm sure you love the ensemble of *Libeled Lady*, but is Spence a main draw for you?

 

 

*Thanx. George Stevens is one of my favorite directors but I've never seen "Talk of the Town." Looks like I might have to see that one.*

 

 

I'm guessing you won't like it too much.